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Charging Costs: Home charging is significantly cheaper than public charging options. Missing from this is the percentage of people that can charge at home. Yo

Charging Costs: Home charging is significantly cheaper than public charging options. Missing from this is the percentage of people that can charge at home. Younger generations may never be able to afford a home. Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time.

lambda 2y ago
You can also charge at work, which is actually generally better as the grid moves to more solar as then the demand lines up with generation. Employers need to step up their game and start offering charging if they want people in the office.
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  You can also charge at work Very true. I've seen some tech companies doing this in conjunction with adding roof solar to get tax breaks. Are other industries stepping up as well? Of course in hind-sight I recall we had about 16 chargers at the time we had over 20k employees. There were a lot of Tesla's in the parking lot but many of those people were older and had homes. Those chargers also caused a lot of drama. People would unplug other peoples cars, the other people would send videos from their Tesla to corporate security. I would just park my old ICE truck near the front door since I got to work early.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > Are other industries stepping up as well? A lot of commercial office spaces around me (DFW) have charging stations in their parking garages as a building amenity.
- madcaptenor 2y ago
  In 2014 or 2015 I worked with a guy who wanted charging at the office. We didn't have it, so he just started running an extension cord from his car into the building. IIRC they got mad at him not for taking the electricity but because he was leaving the door ajar to do it.
- DemPartyPooper 2y ago
  [flagged]
- wing-_-nuts 2y ago
  Honestly, it's kind of blatantly transparent that corporate climate change initiatives are meaningless when they insist workers commute to the office when we just spent the last few years proving we would work from home. I'm thankful my employer still lets us WFH and it greatly helps our recruitment and retention.
  - LinuxBender 2y ago
    Agreed. I assumed the push for EV's was to buy the US and EU time to refine their processes around CNG refinement, storage and transport and to avoid dependence on Saudi (for US)/Russian (for EU) oil. That's nearly a done deal in the US. CNG not far from me is $2.25/gallon. No idea how far along the EU is or if the plan is for the US to sell CNG to the EU.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    All climate change initiatives that don't directly reduce either mass or reducing the distance the mass is moved are meaningless. Which means, the only initiative for climate change that ever needed to happen is a higher and higher taxes on fossil fuels, and everything would flow downhill from that. But that was never on the table, so it was always all just lip service.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      > Which means, the only initiative for climate change that ever needed to happen is a higher and higher taxes on fossil fuels, and everything would flow downhill from that. We effectively managed it in Canada, but it’s become political poison.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
notpushkin 2y ago
> Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. Why not charge EV owners directly? Also I’m not sure if chargers are that expensive in the first place, especially considering you don’t necessarily need fast charging since you leave your car charging overnight anyways.
maxehmookau 2y ago
This is _by far_ the biggest concern. I own a home, but it doesn't have a driveway much like the majority of Brits which means I rely on public charging for my EV. In the UK, electricity supplied to your home is charged at a 5% rate of VAT. You can also take advantage of cheaper overnight energy tariffs that keep the price per kWh down to £0.03-0.05. Public chargers will charge a minimum of £0.55 up to £1 per kWh which includes 20% VAT. That'll need to change for mass adoption here.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  > Minimum of £0.55 Where are you getting this from? Just checked my nearest public charger and it’s £0.45
  - maxehmookau 2y ago
    It's very location dependent. All of the chargers owned by my local Council are currently 63p. Average nationwide is 53p. https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/charging-price-index https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/charging-price-index However you look at it, it's a heck of a lot more than charging at home. Intelligent Octopus Go is currently charging 7p per kWh overnight.
Aurornis 2y ago
> Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. Homeowners also have to eat the cost of installing a charger and paying for electricity. I think you’re exaggerating the issue. Many people charge at apartments, rental houses, or work and it’s only becoming more common. The claim that younger generations will never afford homes has also been extremely exaggerated. Millennial home ownership rates are actually quite high and growing, not far from previous generations. Houses are more expensive, but claiming entire generations won’t afford homes is just doomerism.
- technol0gic 2y ago
  receipts, please
- dangus 2y ago
  You also don’t need to own a home to charge a car where you live. I met an uber driver who drove a Tesla Model 3 and they charged at an apartment tower garage. The best part for them was the landlord offered it for free, no electricity charge. I also know someone who just ran an extension cord out to their parking spot in their apartment. It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    > It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them. I've read that while this is true, the power capacity of this existing infrastructure is far, far from what would be required. Even the cable sizes are frequently inappropriate.
    - dangus 2y ago
      Gasoline cars were sold before gas station networks existed. We didn’t always have a gas station around every corner. The same argument about capacity could be made for other modern appliances like air conditioning and electric dryers. Most EV buyers barely need level 2 charging for their daily average driving distance. Of course if we are going to get deep in the weeds I’d say that most places where the majority of peope live including suburbs can be made far more conducive to cycling and transit without that much of an investment and more of a mindset change to how we approach city development.
anovikov 2y ago
I wonder what happens to the old homes. Are homes being razed on a massive scale? If the population almost doesn't grow anymore, and some houses are still being built, where the heck all those house disappear? Owners or renters, but SOMEONE has to be living there.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  Tons of homes in the US are kept vacant, either because landlord( companie)s want higher rents that what's achievable by renters in the market, or because property is a reliable asset to hold that will increase value.
  - anovikov 2y ago
    It doesn't work this way because vacant homes in some place decrease values and rents on ALL the homes in the same place, and it hits the pockets of everyone really hard.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > If the population almost doesn't grow anymore The overall population isn't necessarily growing very much. But populations of the different areas throughout the country are pretty different from even a few decades ago. Many old towns (and old homes) are just no longer economically viable after the industries that gave people jobs in those towns moved away. Lots of extremely cheap houses in certain places. Good luck getting decent city services or a well-paying job anywhere nearby.
  - anovikov 2y ago
    So it's about concentration, not overall price growth? That's natural then - it also means incomes in those few places are much higher too that people are moving there. And yes they might have to endure hardships to do so. I mean, in Europe however socialist, no one is asking for affordable housing on Avenue Foch. Affordable housing must exist, but by definition it can only exist in places where only people who live there are those who "remained", i.e. left out when all active ones are excluded.
UltraSane 2y ago
Yep. I rent and for me that makes EVs not an option. I do see two people in my parking garage have plug in hybrids and charge from 120 volt outlets. I don't know if they actually have permission to use the outlets.
- dangus 2y ago
  Sounds like EVs are an option for you.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    plug in hybrids are but a lot of EV purists despise them.
    - entropicdrifter 2y ago
      They have a lot of added mechanical complexity, which makes them likely to have shorter lifespans than pure EVs, but they can be quite good in the right circumstances
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        They make a lot of sense when the battery range is more than your round trip commute OR one way commute and you can charge at work.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  I know several people that charge their EV's from 120V outlets and do just fine. They planned on installing a faster charger, got an expensive quote for the installation so delayed and then just realized that 120V was good enough for them.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    We got our first EV last month (2025 Hyundai Ioniq 5) and we are currently doing this. It is just barely feasible if you don't drive much (< ~30mi / day?) and are home quite a lot (at least 10 contiguous hours daily, i.e. overnight). This describes us, and honestly probably a fair number of people. It also works if you are willing to stop by a fast charger for 20 minutes once or twice a month to top it back up. I was kind of expecting it to be more feasible, but after our experience, I think most people would be much happier with a L2 charger installed. We plan to have one installed once the weather warms up.
ninth_ant 2y ago
Condominium complexes often have trouble pushing through new investments like this, as some residents will push back against any new expense. In my parents building the anti-EV expansion proposal was blocked in part by the people who already had chargers for themselves!
- wing-_-nuts 2y ago
  Yep, when I go to my annual hoa meeting for my condo complex, it's all very old people that have absolutely no interest in paying a penny more. I even offered to pay the entire cost to have a charger put in for my parking spot but it was shot down over concerns of having to drop wiring out to it.
- pornel 2y ago
  In the UK (and probably most of Europe) there is already regulation requiring new residential parking and garages to have a grid connection installed, to be able to easily add chargers at residents' request (even if they're renting).
legitster 2y ago
If someone can afford a brand new mid-range car, they are probably doing well enough to buy a home or live at a place with charging options.
coldpie 2y ago
> Missing from this is the percentage of people that can charge at home. In the US[1], about 70% of homes are detached or attached single-family homes[2]. The vast majority of those will be able to support charging one or two cars at home. How to address the remaining 30% is definitely an issue worth discussing, but it's not an issue for the majority of people who live in the US. If we could get to 70% of cars to being EVs, that would be a huge dent in our emissions, still worth celebrating even if it doesn't work for absolutely everyone. > Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. What I've seen around here (Twin Cities, MN) is apartments just have some charging company put about 4~8 of their fast chargers in their parking lot. I would guess those companies pay the installation costs and charge the users directly, so the apartment owners don't have to deal with it at all. [1] The article is about Europe, but I don't live there. Maybe someone else can find stats for Europe. [2] Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs...
- jcranmer 2y ago
  From https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/hc/pdf/HC%202.1.pdf https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/hc/pdf..., out of ~80m non multi-unit homes, only about 50m have a garage, with about 30m without a garage and about 40m living in a complex where garages aren't expected. That's not exactly a vast majority that could support charging at home.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    Good find! Interesting data in that. I don't think a garage is a requirement to charging at home, but that's still a fair point and a lower number than I expected.
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    Garages aren't necessary for charging. There are outdoor car chargers that can mount on pole. It is a little harder to run the power to them but not that expensive. Similar chargers would work for apartment complex parking lots. It would even be possible to put chargers on street parking.
xnx 2y ago
You would never want to buy an EV if you can't charge where you sleep.

lambda 2y ago

You can also charge at work, which is actually generally better as the grid moves to more solar as then the demand lines up with generation. Employers need to step up their game and start offering charging if they want people in the office.

LinuxBender 2y ago
You can also charge at work Very true. I've seen some tech companies doing this in conjunction with adding roof solar to get tax breaks. Are other industries stepping up as well? Of course in hind-sight I recall we had about 16 chargers at the time we had over 20k employees. There were a lot of Tesla's in the parking lot but many of those people were older and had homes. Those chargers also caused a lot of drama. People would unplug other peoples cars, the other people would send videos from their Tesla to corporate security. I would just park my old ICE truck near the front door since I got to work early.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > Are other industries stepping up as well? A lot of commercial office spaces around me (DFW) have charging stations in their parking garages as a building amenity.
madcaptenor 2y ago
In 2014 or 2015 I worked with a guy who wanted charging at the office. We didn't have it, so he just started running an extension cord from his car into the building. IIRC they got mad at him not for taking the electricity but because he was leaving the door ajar to do it.
DemPartyPooper 2y ago
[flagged]
wing-_-nuts 2y ago
Honestly, it's kind of blatantly transparent that corporate climate change initiatives are meaningless when they insist workers commute to the office when we just spent the last few years proving we would work from home. I'm thankful my employer still lets us WFH and it greatly helps our recruitment and retention.
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  Agreed. I assumed the push for EV's was to buy the US and EU time to refine their processes around CNG refinement, storage and transport and to avoid dependence on Saudi (for US)/Russian (for EU) oil. That's nearly a done deal in the US. CNG not far from me is $2.25/gallon. No idea how far along the EU is or if the plan is for the US to sell CNG to the EU.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  All climate change initiatives that don't directly reduce either mass or reducing the distance the mass is moved are meaningless. Which means, the only initiative for climate change that ever needed to happen is a higher and higher taxes on fossil fuels, and everything would flow downhill from that. But that was never on the table, so it was always all just lip service.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > Which means, the only initiative for climate change that ever needed to happen is a higher and higher taxes on fossil fuels, and everything would flow downhill from that. We effectively managed it in Canada, but it’s become political poison.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

notpushkin 2y ago

> Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. Why not charge EV owners directly? Also I’m not sure if chargers are that expensive in the first place, especially considering you don’t necessarily need fast charging since you leave your car charging overnight anyways.

maxehmookau 2y ago

This is _by far_ the biggest concern. I own a home, but it doesn't have a driveway much like the majority of Brits which means I rely on public charging for my EV. In the UK, electricity supplied to your home is charged at a 5% rate of VAT. You can also take advantage of cheaper overnight energy tariffs that keep the price per kWh down to £0.03-0.05. Public chargers will charge a minimum of £0.55 up to £1 per kWh which includes 20% VAT. That'll need to change for mass adoption here.

thebruce87m 2y ago
> Minimum of £0.55 Where are you getting this from? Just checked my nearest public charger and it’s £0.45
- maxehmookau 2y ago
  It's very location dependent. All of the chargers owned by my local Council are currently 63p. Average nationwide is 53p. https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/charging-price-index https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/charging-price-index However you look at it, it's a heck of a lot more than charging at home. Intelligent Octopus Go is currently charging 7p per kWh overnight.

Aurornis 2y ago

> Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. Homeowners also have to eat the cost of installing a charger and paying for electricity. I think you’re exaggerating the issue. Many people charge at apartments, rental houses, or work and it’s only becoming more common. The claim that younger generations will never afford homes has also been extremely exaggerated. Millennial home ownership rates are actually quite high and growing, not far from previous generations. Houses are more expensive, but claiming entire generations won’t afford homes is just doomerism.

technol0gic 2y ago
receipts, please
dangus 2y ago
You also don’t need to own a home to charge a car where you live. I met an uber driver who drove a Tesla Model 3 and they charged at an apartment tower garage. The best part for them was the landlord offered it for free, no electricity charge. I also know someone who just ran an extension cord out to their parking spot in their apartment. It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them. I've read that while this is true, the power capacity of this existing infrastructure is far, far from what would be required. Even the cable sizes are frequently inappropriate.
  - dangus 2y ago
    Gasoline cars were sold before gas station networks existed. We didn’t always have a gas station around every corner. The same argument about capacity could be made for other modern appliances like air conditioning and electric dryers. Most EV buyers barely need level 2 charging for their daily average driving distance. Of course if we are going to get deep in the weeds I’d say that most places where the majority of peope live including suburbs can be made far more conducive to cycling and transit without that much of an investment and more of a mindset change to how we approach city development.

anovikov 2y ago

I wonder what happens to the old homes. Are homes being razed on a massive scale? If the population almost doesn't grow anymore, and some houses are still being built, where the heck all those house disappear? Owners or renters, but SOMEONE has to be living there.

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
Tons of homes in the US are kept vacant, either because landlord( companie)s want higher rents that what's achievable by renters in the market, or because property is a reliable asset to hold that will increase value.
- anovikov 2y ago
  It doesn't work this way because vacant homes in some place decrease values and rents on ALL the homes in the same place, and it hits the pockets of everyone really hard.
vel0city 2y ago
> If the population almost doesn't grow anymore The overall population isn't necessarily growing very much. But populations of the different areas throughout the country are pretty different from even a few decades ago. Many old towns (and old homes) are just no longer economically viable after the industries that gave people jobs in those towns moved away. Lots of extremely cheap houses in certain places. Good luck getting decent city services or a well-paying job anywhere nearby.
- anovikov 2y ago
  So it's about concentration, not overall price growth? That's natural then - it also means incomes in those few places are much higher too that people are moving there. And yes they might have to endure hardships to do so. I mean, in Europe however socialist, no one is asking for affordable housing on Avenue Foch. Affordable housing must exist, but by definition it can only exist in places where only people who live there are those who "remained", i.e. left out when all active ones are excluded.

UltraSane 2y ago

Yep. I rent and for me that makes EVs not an option. I do see two people in my parking garage have plug in hybrids and charge from 120 volt outlets. I don't know if they actually have permission to use the outlets.

dangus 2y ago
Sounds like EVs are an option for you.
- UltraSane 2y ago
  plug in hybrids are but a lot of EV purists despise them.
  - entropicdrifter 2y ago
    They have a lot of added mechanical complexity, which makes them likely to have shorter lifespans than pure EVs, but they can be quite good in the right circumstances
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      They make a lot of sense when the battery range is more than your round trip commute OR one way commute and you can charge at work.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
I know several people that charge their EV's from 120V outlets and do just fine. They planned on installing a faster charger, got an expensive quote for the installation so delayed and then just realized that 120V was good enough for them.
- coldpie 2y ago
  We got our first EV last month (2025 Hyundai Ioniq 5) and we are currently doing this. It is just barely feasible if you don't drive much (< ~30mi / day?) and are home quite a lot (at least 10 contiguous hours daily, i.e. overnight). This describes us, and honestly probably a fair number of people. It also works if you are willing to stop by a fast charger for 20 minutes once or twice a month to top it back up. I was kind of expecting it to be more feasible, but after our experience, I think most people would be much happier with a L2 charger installed. We plan to have one installed once the weather warms up.

ninth_ant 2y ago

Condominium complexes often have trouble pushing through new investments like this, as some residents will push back against any new expense. In my parents building the anti-EV expansion proposal was blocked in part by the people who already had chargers for themselves!

wing-_-nuts 2y ago
Yep, when I go to my annual hoa meeting for my condo complex, it's all very old people that have absolutely no interest in paying a penny more. I even offered to pay the entire cost to have a charger put in for my parking spot but it was shot down over concerns of having to drop wiring out to it.
pornel 2y ago
In the UK (and probably most of Europe) there is already regulation requiring new residential parking and garages to have a grid connection installed, to be able to easily add chargers at residents' request (even if they're renting).

legitster 2y ago

If someone can afford a brand new mid-range car, they are probably doing well enough to buy a home or live at a place with charging options.

coldpie 2y ago

> Missing from this is the percentage of people that can charge at home. In the US[1], about 70% of homes are detached or attached single-family homes[2]. The vast majority of those will be able to support charging one or two cars at home. How to address the remaining 30% is definitely an issue worth discussing, but it's not an issue for the majority of people who live in the US. If we could get to 70% of cars to being EVs, that would be a huge dent in our emissions, still worth celebrating even if it doesn't work for absolutely everyone. > Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time. What I've seen around here (Twin Cities, MN) is apartments just have some charging company put about 4~8 of their fast chargers in their parking lot. I would guess those companies pay the installation costs and charge the users directly, so the apartment owners don't have to deal with it at all. [1] The article is about Europe, but I don't live there. Maybe someone else can find stats for Europe. [2] Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs...

jcranmer 2y ago
From https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/hc/pdf/HC%202.1.pdf https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/hc/pdf..., out of ~80m non multi-unit homes, only about 50m have a garage, with about 30m without a garage and about 40m living in a complex where garages aren't expected. That's not exactly a vast majority that could support charging at home.
- coldpie 2y ago
  Good find! Interesting data in that. I don't think a garage is a requirement to charging at home, but that's still a fair point and a lower number than I expected.
- ianburrell 2y ago
  Garages aren't necessary for charging. There are outdoor car chargers that can mount on pole. It is a little harder to run the power to them but not that expensive. Similar chargers would work for apartment complex parking lots. It would even be possible to put chargers on street parking.

xnx 2y ago

You would never want to buy an EV if you can't charge where you sleep.