5 ms·

Bruce Schneiers thoughts : https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/doge-as-a-national.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/doge-as-a-nat.

by jgord 2y ago

Bruce Schneiers thoughts : https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/doge-as-a-national.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/doge-as-a-nat... https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/ai-and-civil-service-purges.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/ai-and-civil-...

wewewedxfgdf 2y ago
>> Assuming that anyone in the government still cares. Schneier hits the mark here. Government only works at all if people care. And if you tell someone that their job, and the organisation they work for - are of no value - then those people won't care any more. I don't know what the outcome would be of large swathes of the government either being fired or not caring any more but we're going to find out and I don't think it will be good. Or maybe not, maybe Trump and whathisname are right and government really is a complete waste of money. In which case there will be great money savings and the USA will be the better for it.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Any great money savings isn’t going to come from getting rid of personnel. Spending on government employees is only 6.8% of the budget. If they reach their goal of cutting 10%, that’s still less than 1% of the budget. They are going to have to cut Medicare, Social Security and military spending to make a dent.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - retinaros 2y ago
    If you believe Musk wont reach it you are dreaming. Just cutting all funding to all those NGO and those foreign news institutions will do it. In many countries a big chunk of governments workers are bs jobs and are just there to maintain an aging machine look like its working while helping reducing unemployment rate by financing useless jobs.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      That still doesn’t make the math add up. Is saving .68% in federal spending a win especially with the proposed budget causing more deficit spending?
      - retinaros 2y ago
        You remove the workers not to save on salary but to save on budget you will allocate to a department. Its like any company. The smaller the dept the smaller the budget and influence.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        The math still doesn’t add up. https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-money-go/ https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-m... If you got rid of every department that DOGE is targeting completely, you still only save 8%
    - beowulfey 2y ago
      He is going to cost way more in damage dealt than he will save. The goal is not to save money and only fools would think that it is.
    - michaelbuckbee 2y ago
      In the game Civilization, there are different ways to achieve victory, one of which is a Cultural Victory. A lot of the foreign aid the US does is kind of like this, where we're attempting to shift other countries to our way of life through a mix of direct aid, loans, news, and other methods. There's a real long term ROI on these things where it's inarguably to the US' benefit that other countries want to speak English, use USD, operate businesses similarly to how we do, etc.
      - CharlieDigital 2y ago
        There are a few interesting channels on YT of Africans singing Chinese folk and pop songs. Quite fascinating and a sign of how China has been able to spread influence in Africa through investment. (Of course none of it a free ride)
- bambax 2y ago
  Government is a huge ship where everything happens slowly. If you fire all sailors at once, you won't notice the difference immediately. The phantom ship continues to sail. Then engines start to heat up and fail. And if there's an obstacle along the way, it's game over. This is a dangerous game played by morons full of hubris. On June 16 YC organizes an "AI Startup School"; the first speaker is Elon Musk: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ai-startupschool https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ai-startupschool What a shame.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    The good thing about these massive ships is that they take a loong time to sink. If my guesses are correct, it’ll work just long enough for another administration to take over to deal with the fallout.
    - shmobot 2y ago
      Just be careful when using analogies. The massive ship named USSR sank in a matter of months.
      - Aeolun 2y ago
        I honestly prefer that outcome. At least that’d be a reset instead of this infinite downward cycle.
        shmobot 2y ago
        Such resets are sometimes followed by civil wars, economy crashes style "there is no food for tomorrow" and a generational trauma. As the one who has been through it, be careful what you wish for.
        ty6853 2y ago
        Man to man, you and I both know -- if you've really been there -- that while no one hopes for one many thrive on it. GP may well be one of those.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  States need Vendettas- to those who wipe them out- we will hunt you and your offspring to the end of the earth. Those who destroy complexity, for all the insane ideology reasons - be they Khemer Rouge, liberal galt grey or nazi brown- if the state recovers and rebuilds, it shall come after all of you, your descendants and your insane inspiration givers. If Aynn Rands Great great grandniece has to fear for her life over this - so be it. To propagate this self-destructive retardation has to be a curse on all who give in to it. Just because the mine runneth dry and you want to fire up the carrying wood for warmth, does not make it a valid opinion.
- kamaal 2y ago
  >>I don't know what the outcome would be of large swathes of the government either being fired or not caring any more but we're going to find out and I don't think it will be good. Job security is a big part of why somebody takes up a government job. And it even makes sense. People trade stability for some percentage of extra money they could earn. You are not likely to hire good talent for what government pays. On the other hand, I can't think of a bigger disaster than running a continent spanning government like you would run a start up.
retinaros 2y ago
[flagged]
- SanderSantema 2y ago
  If I am to believe the Corruption Perception Index, which I certainly would over your unsourced blanket statement, you’re wrong and Europe is actually doing rather well at having low rates of corruption. Anecdotally that has certainly been my experience. I don’t really understand the perceived competition anyhow, why not wish for everybody to do well?
  - retinaros 2y ago
    Can you explain how exploding Nordstream pipeline and setting back Germany - EU engine - to the dark ages was USA wishing for everybody to do well? Europe has no corruption ? We are literally led by an unelected woman who sent us to war and single handily decided to buy vaccines from pfizer
- lores 2y ago
  Not only are EU and US on a similar corruption index, the EU does not have a culture of widespread, legal corruption called "lobbying".
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    https://www.integritywatch.eu/organizations.php https://www.integritywatch.eu/organizations.php Nonsense.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    It absolutely does, but it's more "civilized" and less overt.

by jgord 2y ago

wewewedxfgdf 2y ago

>> Assuming that anyone in the government still cares. Schneier hits the mark here. Government only works at all if people care. And if you tell someone that their job, and the organisation they work for - are of no value - then those people won't care any more. I don't know what the outcome would be of large swathes of the government either being fired or not caring any more but we're going to find out and I don't think it will be good. Or maybe not, maybe Trump and whathisname are right and government really is a complete waste of money. In which case there will be great money savings and the USA will be the better for it.

scarface_74 2y ago
Any great money savings isn’t going to come from getting rid of personnel. Spending on government employees is only 6.8% of the budget. If they reach their goal of cutting 10%, that’s still less than 1% of the budget. They are going to have to cut Medicare, Social Security and military spending to make a dent.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- retinaros 2y ago
  If you believe Musk wont reach it you are dreaming. Just cutting all funding to all those NGO and those foreign news institutions will do it. In many countries a big chunk of governments workers are bs jobs and are just there to maintain an aging machine look like its working while helping reducing unemployment rate by financing useless jobs.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    That still doesn’t make the math add up. Is saving .68% in federal spending a win especially with the proposed budget causing more deficit spending?
    - retinaros 2y ago
      You remove the workers not to save on salary but to save on budget you will allocate to a department. Its like any company. The smaller the dept the smaller the budget and influence.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        The math still doesn’t add up. https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-money-go/ https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-m... If you got rid of every department that DOGE is targeting completely, you still only save 8%
  - beowulfey 2y ago
    He is going to cost way more in damage dealt than he will save. The goal is not to save money and only fools would think that it is.
  - michaelbuckbee 2y ago
    In the game Civilization, there are different ways to achieve victory, one of which is a Cultural Victory. A lot of the foreign aid the US does is kind of like this, where we're attempting to shift other countries to our way of life through a mix of direct aid, loans, news, and other methods. There's a real long term ROI on these things where it's inarguably to the US' benefit that other countries want to speak English, use USD, operate businesses similarly to how we do, etc.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      There are a few interesting channels on YT of Africans singing Chinese folk and pop songs. Quite fascinating and a sign of how China has been able to spread influence in Africa through investment. (Of course none of it a free ride)
bambax 2y ago
Government is a huge ship where everything happens slowly. If you fire all sailors at once, you won't notice the difference immediately. The phantom ship continues to sail. Then engines start to heat up and fail. And if there's an obstacle along the way, it's game over. This is a dangerous game played by morons full of hubris. On June 16 YC organizes an "AI Startup School"; the first speaker is Elon Musk: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ai-startupschool https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ai-startupschool What a shame.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  The good thing about these massive ships is that they take a loong time to sink. If my guesses are correct, it’ll work just long enough for another administration to take over to deal with the fallout.
  - shmobot 2y ago
    Just be careful when using analogies. The massive ship named USSR sank in a matter of months.
    - Aeolun 2y ago
      I honestly prefer that outcome. At least that’d be a reset instead of this infinite downward cycle.
      - shmobot 2y ago
        Such resets are sometimes followed by civil wars, economy crashes style "there is no food for tomorrow" and a generational trauma. As the one who has been through it, be careful what you wish for.
        ty6853 2y ago
        Man to man, you and I both know -- if you've really been there -- that while no one hopes for one many thrive on it. GP may well be one of those.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
States need Vendettas- to those who wipe them out- we will hunt you and your offspring to the end of the earth. Those who destroy complexity, for all the insane ideology reasons - be they Khemer Rouge, liberal galt grey or nazi brown- if the state recovers and rebuilds, it shall come after all of you, your descendants and your insane inspiration givers. If Aynn Rands Great great grandniece has to fear for her life over this - so be it. To propagate this self-destructive retardation has to be a curse on all who give in to it. Just because the mine runneth dry and you want to fire up the carrying wood for warmth, does not make it a valid opinion.
kamaal 2y ago
>>I don't know what the outcome would be of large swathes of the government either being fired or not caring any more but we're going to find out and I don't think it will be good. Job security is a big part of why somebody takes up a government job. And it even makes sense. People trade stability for some percentage of extra money they could earn. You are not likely to hire good talent for what government pays. On the other hand, I can't think of a bigger disaster than running a continent spanning government like you would run a start up.

retinaros 2y ago

[flagged]

SanderSantema 2y ago
If I am to believe the Corruption Perception Index, which I certainly would over your unsourced blanket statement, you’re wrong and Europe is actually doing rather well at having low rates of corruption. Anecdotally that has certainly been my experience. I don’t really understand the perceived competition anyhow, why not wish for everybody to do well?
- retinaros 2y ago
  Can you explain how exploding Nordstream pipeline and setting back Germany - EU engine - to the dark ages was USA wishing for everybody to do well? Europe has no corruption ? We are literally led by an unelected woman who sent us to war and single handily decided to buy vaccines from pfizer
lores 2y ago
Not only are EU and US on a similar corruption index, the EU does not have a culture of widespread, legal corruption called "lobbying".
- kasey_junk 2y ago
  https://www.integritywatch.eu/organizations.php https://www.integritywatch.eu/organizations.php Nonsense.
- pjc50 2y ago
  It absolutely does, but it's more "civilized" and less overt.