6 ms·
Why aren't we losing our minds over the plastic in our brains?
- prh8 2y agoAs with most things, the answer is capitalism
- hsuduebc2 2y agoVery insightful
- meristohm 2y agoElaborate, please?
- Pingk 2y agoIt's cheaper and more profitable to make thing out of plastic rather than something more durable/sustainable, and companies lobby against strong environmental regulations so they don't need to care about improving.
- ryuhhnn 2y agoNot sure why this was downvoted, it’s a perfectly reasonable explanation. Even ideas as abstract as private property comes into play here, private owners are incentivised to make the most of their investments, and when one of the many main vehicles for wealth is land ownership, one is driven to find ways to maximise the use of that investment which in this case would be drilling oil which in turn gets further refined into plastics (among gasoline, etc.). If we weren’t forced to live under a system that prioritises private ownership and the maximisation of profits, can we honestly say that we would independently come to the conclusion that our continued use of fossil fuels and their derivatives is okay and should continue?
- yesco 2y agoExactly! The only solution is bringing back serfdom and hoping the party appointed manor lord does a better job than what us greedy peons could ever hope to accomplish on our own.
- ryuhhnn 2y agoNobody here brought up serfdom except you and your snarky comment doesn’t provide anything of value or broaden the analysis here. The absence of capitalism doesn’t beget serfdom, it doesn’t even beget socialism or communism, it begets the absence of capitalism. Think bigger, friend.
- yesco 2y agoOh so what do you consider to be present in the absense of capitalism if not what came before it?
- ryuhhnn 2y agoThis is an impossible question to answer, nobody can predict the future. It’s not always a given that we would simply regress to what came before it, that’s the point. You don’t have the ability to predict the future either.
- yesco 2y agoUnless you are suggesting total anarchy, usually criticism of one system would imply you desire some kind of alternative to replace it, or perhaps even some kind of amendment to the current system. It sounds like you don't have one? But in that case, what now confuses me is your critique on private ownership. State ownership would be the alternative in this case, no? But under the old systems, the ones that naturally manifested across the world for millennia, the natural flow is that elites in control of the state kick down the ladder and form tiered societies that limit social mobility. Through this they secure their position for generations. To do away with private ownership is to remove the checks that have been put into place to limit the power of elites who would otherwise have exclusive control. While there have been many historical attempts to prevent this from happening, only the more recent political philosophies prescribed by liberal democracies in the past ~200 years have been effective in, even if only partially, mitigating this core issue of resource consolidation by elites. By focusing on meritocracy to the extreme (relative to before), liberal democracy and "capitalism" make power more fluid, it makes the ladder kicking more challenging (but not impossible). Yet these checks alone have given way to the explosive increase in innovation and quality of life we all now benefit from today. Can we do better? Absolutely, especially as innovation opens doors to new ideas and capabilities. But don't get confused by the semantics and abstractions masking the core of it all: Power. If your solution is to just re-centralize power to the group of elites in charge, even if they are elected, then regression is destiny.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoYes? A world with no private ownership and no maximization of profits is still going to find that the functional properties of plastics make one of them the best material for a wide variety of use cases. If you need something lightweight, sturdy, and either transparent or easily moldable, there's really no other option.
- nearlyepic 2y agoYou're missing the point - it's not whether plastic is the best material for a use case, it's about the cost/benefit analysis of using it. Think asbestos - really good at not catching fire, with the slight side effect of royally messing up your lungs. Plastic is great for all the reasons you describe, but it's really hell on the environment. The thing that offsets that side effect is its cheapness, and that's majorly a function of capitalism/private land ownership/the general way the world is organized right now.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoI don't think it's true that plastic is cheap as a function of capitalism, private land ownership, or the general way the world is organized right now. It's cheap because it can be produced quickly and at scale from widely available raw materials. Abolishing capitalism wouldn't change the physics and engineering of natural gas wells, nor of the lumber mills and mining required to make paper and wood. You mention asbestos, but I'm pretty confident we would not have banned asbestos if we didn't have other comparably effective building insulation materials. (Indeed, it's still used in many poorer countries where people are unable to afford the alternatives.)
- ryuhhnn 2y ago> Abolishing capitalism wouldn't change the physics and engineering of natural gas wells, nor of the lumber mills and mining required to make paper and wood. Of course it wouldn’t, I don’t think anybody would believe this. Abolishing capitalism would change the incentive for collecting and utilising those natural resources, though. It’s a lot easier to justify the made up idea of private property when you’re sitting on a pile of rocks that you believe will make you a lot of money than it is to justify sitting on a pile of rocks that a few people decided might be processed into something that’s a net positive to all of society. I have to wonder if plastics would be as ubiquitous as they are today if we didn’t have a very strong social and economic incentive to drill for its raw materials.
- adamredwoods 2y agoIt's currently more difficult and more expensive to find pure-cotton products... currently due to demand and scales of industry (cost). So if it becomes mroe of a deterrent that nylon friction in clothes is creating microplastics in our blood and respiratory system, then theoretically consumers devalue nylon-made products and increase value to pure cotton, demand goes up, costs go up, attracts more manufacturers and sellers for the value, then we'll see the shift back to pure cotton (or more likely a blend of organics).
- Mountain_Skies 2y agoMaybe the plastic is telling us to not worry about the plastic? It's interesting to wonder that if something in the environment did cause widespread cognitive impairment, how long would it take for us to realize it was happening?
- iinnPP 2y agoBahahahahahhahahhahHAhaa We wouldn't. Not as a society at least. It would be "fringe conspiracy theories" to say such things to protect big plastic or something. Potentially.
- electric_mayhem 2y agoGood question. I wonder if the Romans knew they were getting dumber from sweetening their food with lead.
- flyinghamster 2y agoNot just the Romans, but anyone over 50, particularly in urban areas, got dosed with plenty of lead as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoHas anyone plotted the amount of lead in the electorate over time?
- slater 2y agoIt'll be interesting to see as the baby boomers pass away [0] if the political pendulum swings from "rah rah fu got mine, cruelty is the point, suck it libt*rds" conservatism, back to liberalism. It'd give me hope that Tr_mp winning again was just "one last hurrah" of those right-of-center (or by international standards, far-right) in the US. [0] https://incendar.com/baby_boomer_deathclock.php https://incendar.com/baby_boomer_deathclock.php
- b_e_n_t_o_n 2y agoImagine if after all the panic over climate change, nuclear warfare etc, the thing that collapses our civilization is little bits of Tupperware in our brains? lol
- bl4kers 2y agohttps://archive.is/72BDy https://archive.is/72BDy
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago> So, yes, while correlation does not equal causation, these are fairly alarming signs. Yet we live in a country that believes wholeheartedly that we just keep doing what we are doing while we figure it all out. Yes, I believe this wholeheartedly. I agree it's an important area to research, and I support regulations to try and minimize the amount of stuff that ends up in the environment and our bodies. It's pretty likely our great-grandchildren will learn about the bad old days when consumer goods were just shedding microplastics everywhere. But I don't think it's worth giving up the benefits of widespread plastic usage while we figure out better alternatives, and I've never seen an argument that it is beyond the kind of vague gestures towards the naturalistic fallacy the source article presents. "Imagine 2.5 teaspoons of sugar. Now sub in plastic. Gross." - neither of these seem particularly gross to me.
- cmiller1 2y agoI'm more scared of macroplastics, a 2 ton hunk of plastic falling on you will kill you way faster.
- giantg2 2y ago"Why Aren't We Losing Our Minds over the Plastic in Our Brains?" Because people value convenience and low costs over most risks. It's actually amazing that Organic food has found as much traction as it has with the increased cost and less convenient shopping.
- darth_avocado 2y agoMore of it is because most people don’t know about it and out of the ones who know, most don’t believe it’s a problem. We have scientific studies that also state that having plastic in your blood steam and organs, is okay. So unless we focus research on how plastics are affecting us, just studies saying we found plastic in xyz aren’t going to get us anywhere beyond “we should probably do more research on this”.
- Ekaros 2y agoThere is lot of other perceived value in organic. It is seen as more healthy so it works as placebo. And then some can't ever put enough value on being able to feel smug and superior towards poorer people and less well educated.
- trial3 2y ago> some can't ever put enough value on being able to feel smug and superior towards poorer people and less well educated this feels like a disingenuous categorization to me. there are sustainability, ethical, supply chain, and other environmental considerations that impact why one might choose organic food. i don’t always, but am lucky to have the budgeting flexibility to choose fancy single-origin coffee or other things with “perceived value” it feels that comments like this betray a desire to look down on others more transparently than choosing to shop at Whole Foods does
- dietr1ch 2y ago> It's actually amazing that Organic food has found as much traction as it has with the increased cost and less convenient shopping. I'm not surprised about this one. Store tomatoes look really nice, but have no flavour, and it's noticeable with other fruits and veggies too.
- yapyap 2y agoLosing my mind over the plastic in my brain wouldn’t do any good either, it’s already there.
- 9283409232 2y agoThere are a lot of things going on in the US currently where I could ask "Why aren't We Losing Our Minds over ....?" The answer is money. Moving away from plastic is expensive and consumers aren't demanding it so business as usual.
- nickvec 2y agoWhy lose your mind over something you cannot change?
- surume 2y ago[flagged]
- Ekaros 2y agoBecause otherwise plastic is miracle material. Alternatives are lot less practical or do not offer same advantages. Glass is heavier, less sturdy, possible produces shards that cause immediate damage such as cuts. Most metals need the plastic coating to be non-reactive. And then products packed in plastic stored in inert gas last amazingly long time. Which is very big selling point for many customers.
- geye1234 2y agoIs there some sort of Pareto principle that could be applied to reducing plastic intake? Can someone suggest a few easy steps that would cause >50% reduction in plastic intake, for those who don't have time to dig through the research, and can't make drastic life changes? I'll offer "don't microwave in plastic containers" as a starter for ten. Second might be "get a metal water bottle".
- sa-code 2y agoThis is a really good question, and I'd love to know the answers here too
- brutalhonesty 2y agowood cutting board
- _huayra_ 2y agoAnother bonus: at least for bamboo, it has antimicrobial properties compared to plastic, which tends to have all sorts of difficult-to-clean grooves for bacteria to hide in.
- Luc 2y agoThe bamboo will be glued together with something like polyurethane though. That makes up a smaller percentage of the board of course.
- dehrmann 2y ago> Scientists still don’t know what this plastic is doing to us. I think it's because of this and how expensive, inconvenient, and possibly dangerous the alternative is. There's a lot of risk of illness in food handling, and things like one-time use containers and disposable gloves have done a lot to help.
- dehrmann 2y ago> a group of Italian researchers followed 257 people who had plaque in their carotid arteries. They found that 20 percent of the people in their study who had microplastic-laden plaque had had a heart attack, stroke or had died after almost three years, compared to 7.5 percent of the people who didn’t. Microplastics could be a proxy for diet. Which is why we need more studies!
- sweeter 2y agoPlastic is a petroleum product and the petroleum industry controls nearly every news station (Fox + Murdoch is the big one) have trillions in lobbying dollars and has complete capture of the most powerful governments on Earth. What you think and the science about plastic and climate change that we've known for decades doesn't matter.
- Molitor5901 2y agoConvenience, and the absolute iron grip the chemical, petroleum, and retail industries have on politicians. Dare I say the only way to fix the problem with plastics is for a global leader to unilaterally lay tariffs on a wide range of plastic products and packaging, while eliminating them on alternatives to force the industry to move away from plastic.
- MrMcCall 2y ago[flagged]
- rexpop 2y ago"Asking for help from the universe's Creator" is the popular tactic from the world's most regressive, Christian science-deniers and the greatest fools of our day. With all due respect, no one is more diligently ignorant of expertise than the god-botherers. Is this not patently obvious?
- MrMcCall 2y agoI'm a scientist and engineer and dedicated to love for ALL human beings, unlike the hyprocrites who only love their own ethnicity or religiosity or country or whatever. Always love. Teach to always love. Never hate. Teach to never hate. Once one always loves, one only seeks to reduce misery and increase happiness. If you're talking about America's GOP, they are inveterate liars who cause untold misery the world over. The New Testament warned us about them in 2 Timothy 3, among other places. The same goes for the most popular forms of the other religions -- corruption is rife not only in politics but religion, too. This world is a better place when we treat each other as beloved friends, regardless of their form of religion (including none at all), ethnicity, gender identity, and sexual preference. You should not confuse the teachings with the hypocrisy of the liars. And RATM's debut album is the most important album of the 20th Century.
- rexpop 2y agoAppreciate the thoughtful and heartfelt response. > If you're talking about America's GOP, they are inveterate liars who cause untold misery the world over. Well, yeah. I mean, all you're preaching sounds lovely, but eg Pete Hegseth's "Western Christian Paideia" is a fascist call to arms: he literally titled his book "American Crusade," so how can I not find it impossible to trust anyone sporting a crucifix?
- MrMcCall 2y ago
- notorandit 2y agoMaybe because plastics isn't conductive?
- captainbland 2y agoMaybe if it does have a negative effect it's just balancing out roughly what we got rid of with respect to e.g. leaded fuels.
- serviceberry 2y ago"Microplastics found in X" has become a pretty weird sport. The phenomenon is worth studying, but it's not hugely surprising given how ubiquitous they are (another thing you find in every human, probably in higher quantities, is sand). But despite tons of scrutiny, there are no studies showing that it's actually hurting us. We've done some really sketchy things in the early days of industry (leaded gasoline, etc), and have gotten into this overdrive where we're jumping the gun on a lot of substances that are probably not bad. Every year, you have several headlines in the mold of "X is everywhere and might be killing us"... but never really followed by that "oh yeah, it was really killing us" part.
- adamredwoods 2y agoImmediate consequences versus long-term consequences. Leaded gasoline is still being studied on how impactful it was. https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/20th-century-lead-exposure-damaged-american-mental-health https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/20th-century-lead-ex...
- CamperBob2 2y agoLead is highly toxic. Plastic is not necessarily toxic at all.
- adamredwoods 2y agohttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-plastics-fire-spewed-toxic-chemicals-epa-finds-benzene-rcna79778 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-plastics-fire-s... >> A plastics fire in Indiana spewed various toxic chemicals into the air, including hydrogen cyanide and benzene, according to test results from the Environmental Protection Agency. >> Officials said Friday that air monitors detected hydrogen cyanide, benzene, chlorine, carbon monoxide and volatile organic compounds in the ground-level smoke.
- mavhc 2y agoDon't set fire to your brain then, problem solved.
- seba_dos1 2y agoIt's because of all the plastic in there.
- snozolli 2y agoDonating plasma may filter micro-plastics from blood. A study showed it to be effective for removing PFAS: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/ AFAIK there hasn't been a study focused on plastics, but it seems plausible.
- fooker 2y agoBecause we'll get used to it. Or rather, those capable of handling it better will have a slight advantage and guide the hand of civilization.
- jmclnx 2y agoBecause FOX and Newsmax is not covering it. No one cares about real science and facts in the US these days.
- adamredwoods 2y agoI care. But I do blame parents and schools for reducing the number of people interested in science. On the plus side, there are amazing videos of all types of science freely available on YouTube. I think the basis is critical thinking and curiosity, and we need to continue to encourage this in schools.
- HPsquared 2y agoI think the younger generations do have more critical thinking at their age than previous cohorts, simply because there is so much nonsense flying around and people are more sceptical/cynical than, say, 50 years ago. The trouble is how to produce content / character that rises above the slop and get their attention as an actually credible source of information.
- latentcall 2y agoPeople don’t want to be inconvenienced so they’d rather have plastic in their brains. So many people can’t cook their own food, fix their own stuff, read an instruction manual, read a book, distinguish fact from fiction, remember what they had for breakfast, remember their best friends birthday.
- inverted_flag 2y agoEven if you do all that stuff, you’re still going to have microplastics in your brain.
- honkycat 2y agoIf our society had half a brain we would be banning as much single use plastic as possible, replacing it with whatever is appropriate. "But it's expensive!" Yes. Properly disposing of waste costs money. The dirty secret is that a LOT of it is tire dust. We're addicted to our cars. It isn't going to get better. Just enjoy the ride while you can. There is no hope to fix anything. When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money.
- jay_kyburz 2y agoThere is _so_ much money to be made moving our farms into artificial climate controlled environments. A thousand years from now, the Earth will look like Mars, and humans will live in a ring of satellites around the sun.
- honkycat 2y agoIn a thousand years I think what we consider human will be a distant memory. Gene editing will transform our society. I call it the Michael Jordan Einstein theory
- quantified 2y agoI still expect that women will wake up to and react against the plastic in semen.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y agoNeuroplasticity
- lucyjojo 2y agoMy wife considers microplastic ingestion unavoidable and refuses to make any effort to mitigate it. So I think a certain "health-fatigue" spread around the world. I cannot comprehend it but I can certainly observe it.