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Has someone actually measured that tradeoff (weight versus regenerative braking) to determine where it is an even tradeoff? And surely regenerative braking has
by blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Has someone actually measured that tradeoff (weight versus regenerative braking) to determine where it is an even tradeoff? And surely regenerative braking has its own shedding of particles from all the moving parts.
- eagerpace 2y agoRegen braking uses magnets and takes place inside an encased and oil-cooled motor which should eliminate airborne debris.
- hypercube33 2y agoRubber still wears off tires though so that may be worse or not for heavier vehicles
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- melling 2y agoWorried about heavy vehicles? The best selling vehicle is the Ford F-series.
- linsomniac 2y agoWhich is 4,500-5,500lbs curb weight, just FYI.
- jethro_tell 2y agoWhich comes out 200lb lighter than a Toyota Highlander hybrid.
- linsomniac 2y agoFrom what I understand, Ford did some really significant work on lightening the F150 maybe 5+ years ago, I was surprised at how light they are. Looks like a Tesla Model S for comparison is $4,300-5,000lbs.
- peterbecich 2y agoI would think tire wear is a function of both weight and torque. The worst offender would be a Hummer EV.
- AngryData 2y agoIt is actually the RAV4 now, just barely. The f-150 is still in a close second and spent many years at the top though.
- smileysteve 2y agoBecause there is less extreme (and earlier) braking and less weight shift (drive motors on the rear or all), regenerative braking should lead to less overall tire degradation than comparable friction brakes for even a significantly increased weight. Though this is contraindicated by Tesla drivers in the extreme Regen mode that induce motion sickness in their passengers and / or are replacing their tires very often (though conflated with rapid acceleration)
- snozolli 2y agosurely regenerative braking has its own shedding of particles from all the moving parts. It adds tire wear, but no more than traditional friction braking. I can't see how there would be any measurable wear from any other moving parts, since it's just using a magnetic field for resistance. There are moving parts that touch, but modern, sealed bearings last a ridiculously long time.
- Schiendelman 2y agoRegenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Also, none of these discussions use up-to-date information on EV tires. Consumers aren't willing to replace their tires much more often for an EV except at the high end of the market, tire manufacturers are already making tires last much longer for EV purposes. New designs are already shedding less dust per unit mass of the vehicle than they were a few years ago. Plus, some manufacturers are now working to reduce the toxicity of their formulas. This will eliminate the issues a lot more.
- snozolli 2y agoRegenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim. Unless you're skidding, I don't see how braking slowly and smoothly over a longer period causes any less tire wear than braking more rapidly for a shorter time. Additionally, since this is intrinsically tied to EVs, they weigh more and thus increase tire wear in all conditions.
- kstrauser 2y agoThat seems plausible to me. Tires are made from rubber. If friction forces exceed how strong the rubber particles stick to each other, they get pulled loose. And road surfaces aren’t perfectly smooth, so when you’re accelerating, some rubber particles will experience more force than others. It seems believable that hard braking, even without leaving skid marks, could pull more rubber off a tire than gradual braking.
- nickff 2y agoAnecdotally, it’s very dependent on driving cycle and driving style, but EVs use their brakes much less in general. It would be interesting to measure the total mass of brake pads sold per vehicle mile for different vehicles, though this would likely be more challenging than it seems.
- Fronzie 2y agoThere are EV's which have drum-brakes. That's only possible because the regenerative braking takes most of the load. Also, there are stories of brake-discs rusting out on EV's. Both point to less (friction)-brake use on an EV compared to an ICE.
- robin_reala 2y agoYeah, my VE id.3 has drums on the back and disks on the front. Apparently the brake pads are effectively life-of-the-vehicle items under normal driving conditions.
- plasticchris 2y agoI’ve only had to change them one time on any car newer than 1990, after ~200k miles/10 years of use. For most people that qualifies as life of the vehicle, but there was plenty of life left.
- Scoundreller 2y agoThe drum brakes or the rotors? Certainly not the disk brake pads!
- plasticchris 2y agoYeah, the pads lasted that long. It was a manual and I did engine break pretty often.
- plasticchris 2y ago* engine brake
- m463 2y agoI suspect drum brakes were chosen by the electron pinching EV engineers. They're the only brakes that are friction-free when not applied. Disc brakes rub (and slow the car) even when not applied.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dv_dt 2y agoOwning a hybrid with regenerative braking vs a non-hybrid of the same class of vehicle, there is a noticeable reduction in brake wear and replacement with regenerative braking.
- Scoundreller 2y agoCan confirm the same with a manual transmission'd vehicle. About 140k miles in and I've replaced the pads+rotors once (but will replace next summer)
- throwaway_5633 2y agoI heard from someone working at a big car producer that they force EV’s to use the mechanical brakes every now and then because if not, they rust away.
- hedora 2y agoThey rust away either way. They need to be occasionally applied so that when you use them, it doesn’t take half a block to grind the rust off. The same problem occurs if you let an ICE car sit unused for a while.
- talldatethrow 2y agoMy Chevy volt has 199k miles and it's original brake pads and rotors are definitely almost new looking, but I'd say to be conservative they are 60%. My cheap Chinese Walmart tires have lasted me 50k miles and are due to be replaced soon, but I spend zero attention to driving smoothly or in an eco mindset.