3 ms·

I'm not surprised. Unless some really drastic long-term negative effects come up, I think these drugs are going to end up as popular as caffeine or acetaminophe

I'm not surprised. Unless some really drastic long-term negative effects come up, I think these drugs are going to end up as popular as caffeine or acetaminophen.

oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
lm28469 2y ago
To me the simple fact that millions of people kept telling us "being fat is OK and healthy" changed their mind over night now that they have a seemingly silver bullet is a big problem. That and the fact that 90% of fat/obese people could have fixed themselves with a bit of hard work and self control. What's the point of life if you're not able to control such basic things as what you ingest or how much you exercise, are you just at the complete mercy of McDonald's and Novo Nordisk. Having autonomy on your own body is such a basic thing, if you don't control that you control absolutely nothing If it works for them and has 0 negative health effect, good for them, but philosophically it opens up a lot of questions
- vikaveri 2y ago
  You assume that is all about hard work, self control and iron will. I can assure you that it is not, in many cases. Two days after the first shot I realized that if this is how people feel normally two things are crystal clear. One, obesity can be clearly an illness, or medical condition, that can not be cured by willpower alone. Two, if something is easy as drinking a glass of water for you, you can be a real dick about it without even realizing it if you have no idea how others can experience it
  - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
    I realized after my first increase from the starting dosage that the feeling I used to call "full" was what most people call "not too hungry", and I'd been genuinely satiated 4 or 5 times in the past decade at best.
  - ddmf 2y ago
    For some it's not as simple as calories in / calories out. I stopped taking tirzepatide in September after losing 60lbs. Except for a blip at Christmas I am eating the same things and same amounts that I was during the weight loss with glp1 and I am steadily putting on weight, there is definitely something else going on and yet for the 20+ previous years where I've struggled to lose weight I've been told that I'm just not counting calories right. As you said the first time I felt really full was on these drugs, and the lack of food noise - which is slowly returning but not as quickly as I thought - was wonderous.
    - crooked-v 2y ago
      On the one hand, you probably aren't counting calories right. On the other hand, studies have shown that almost nobody can count calories right, so it's probably useless to try and rely on outside of basic order-of-magnitude kind of things.
- Tade0 2y ago
  > What's the point of life if you're not able to control such basic things as what you ingest or how much you exercise Perhaps they're just depressed and obesity is part of a vicious cycle of seeking comfort in food and feeling bad about themselves afterwards? Every one of the BMI 40+ people that I've met had unresolved issues. Sometimes it makes them say things which are difficult to understand from a healthy person's point of view.
- Slimbo 2y ago
  The implication being most overweight people are lazy and impulsive. This is totally broken, there are factors that make some people more inclined to put in weight and what these drugs demonstrate is that our environment of unlimited and manufactured food breaks the normal mechanisms keeping people in a healthy weight. These drugs aren't a magic bullet, what you're able to do on them is exercise the control that many people who don't struggle with their weight can do every day.
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  The questions you posit have an easy answer: you’re wrong and you’re creating a false narrative. No one is saying that being overweight is healthy. Most of those social campaigns were saying that we shouldn’t shame people for their body. Also, plenty of studies have shown that weight control isn’t as simple as self control. Different people have different bodies that react differently, and plenty of people have other conditions that limit their ability to control weight. Gaining weight is easy, and losing it is hard. The body evolved to treat a caloric deficit as literally painful. And losing significant weight requires months or years of deficit, which is months or years of pain. That’s tough to overcome with “a little bit of hard work and self control”. Anecdotally, I’m a perfect example of this. I used to be a runner, and thin. Then I got sick, and my BMI doubled in months. It’s taken at least a year to undo months of illness. I can’t imagine what someone with chronic illness, or even more weight must go through. I live in a city and walk instead of drive, but not everyone has that lifestyle and it’s not a easy thing to change (“why don’t you just move a long way away to an expensive place and sell your car”). Of course, you should not require someone to do everything just right on paper for their views to be valid. Plenty of people struggle with the motivation, time, or finances to make healthy decisions, and those people are real and should be supported too. It’s been studied and proven ad nauseam that food can be addictive and that addictions aren’t a matter of “self control” the way people want it to be.
  - ohnoitsahuman 2y ago
    >>No one is saying that being overweight is healthy. Uh... https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/health-and-wellness-articles/can-you-be-overweight-and-healthy https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/health-and-wellne...
    - lelandbatey 2y ago
      That link goes great lengths to not shame people for their weight and not shame them for a number while also being crystal clear that you have worse outcomes from obesity. Some key quotes: > Yes, you can be overweight and metabolically healthy. At the same time, we know that obesity is a disease that affects the body in many different ways. Thirteen types of cancer and 200 other health conditions are related to obesity. > Those numbers [weight on the scale] directly correlate to life expectancy. Also note, metabolic health doesn't mean "will live a happy and long life with good statistical outcomes for other areas". It mostly means things like "you're not anemic, not diabetic, you have acceptable cholesterol, etc." it doesn't mean "your knees will be fine as you age" nor does it mean "you are at a similar likelihood to develop cancer as someone who is not overweight". It's a pretty narrow definition that's focused on the hyper-immediate.
readthenotes1 2y ago
Those drugs do have some really drastic long-term debit of consequences for some. (1) It is amusing in some way that that doesn't get as much press as all the weight loss and prettification. (1) https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ozempic-side-effects.html https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ozempic-side-effects.html scroll down to serious side effects and note it leaves a very serious side effect https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ozempic-cause-muscle-loss-how-you-prevent-3578660/ https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ozempic-cause-muscle-l...
- WithinReason 2y ago
  You could do this with any drug, i.e. aspirin has a much longer list of side-effects: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html

I'm not surprised. Unless some really drastic long-term negative effects come up, I think these drugs are going to end up as popular as caffeine or acetaminophen.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

lm28469 2y ago

To me the simple fact that millions of people kept telling us "being fat is OK and healthy" changed their mind over night now that they have a seemingly silver bullet is a big problem. That and the fact that 90% of fat/obese people could have fixed themselves with a bit of hard work and self control. What's the point of life if you're not able to control such basic things as what you ingest or how much you exercise, are you just at the complete mercy of McDonald's and Novo Nordisk. Having autonomy on your own body is such a basic thing, if you don't control that you control absolutely nothing If it works for them and has 0 negative health effect, good for them, but philosophically it opens up a lot of questions

vikaveri 2y ago
You assume that is all about hard work, self control and iron will. I can assure you that it is not, in many cases. Two days after the first shot I realized that if this is how people feel normally two things are crystal clear. One, obesity can be clearly an illness, or medical condition, that can not be cured by willpower alone. Two, if something is easy as drinking a glass of water for you, you can be a real dick about it without even realizing it if you have no idea how others can experience it
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
  I realized after my first increase from the starting dosage that the feeling I used to call "full" was what most people call "not too hungry", and I'd been genuinely satiated 4 or 5 times in the past decade at best.
- ddmf 2y ago
  For some it's not as simple as calories in / calories out. I stopped taking tirzepatide in September after losing 60lbs. Except for a blip at Christmas I am eating the same things and same amounts that I was during the weight loss with glp1 and I am steadily putting on weight, there is definitely something else going on and yet for the 20+ previous years where I've struggled to lose weight I've been told that I'm just not counting calories right. As you said the first time I felt really full was on these drugs, and the lack of food noise - which is slowly returning but not as quickly as I thought - was wonderous.
  - crooked-v 2y ago
    On the one hand, you probably aren't counting calories right. On the other hand, studies have shown that almost nobody can count calories right, so it's probably useless to try and rely on outside of basic order-of-magnitude kind of things.
Tade0 2y ago
> What's the point of life if you're not able to control such basic things as what you ingest or how much you exercise Perhaps they're just depressed and obesity is part of a vicious cycle of seeking comfort in food and feeling bad about themselves afterwards? Every one of the BMI 40+ people that I've met had unresolved issues. Sometimes it makes them say things which are difficult to understand from a healthy person's point of view.
Slimbo 2y ago
The implication being most overweight people are lazy and impulsive. This is totally broken, there are factors that make some people more inclined to put in weight and what these drugs demonstrate is that our environment of unlimited and manufactured food breaks the normal mechanisms keeping people in a healthy weight. These drugs aren't a magic bullet, what you're able to do on them is exercise the control that many people who don't struggle with their weight can do every day.
vineyardmike 2y ago
The questions you posit have an easy answer: you’re wrong and you’re creating a false narrative. No one is saying that being overweight is healthy. Most of those social campaigns were saying that we shouldn’t shame people for their body. Also, plenty of studies have shown that weight control isn’t as simple as self control. Different people have different bodies that react differently, and plenty of people have other conditions that limit their ability to control weight. Gaining weight is easy, and losing it is hard. The body evolved to treat a caloric deficit as literally painful. And losing significant weight requires months or years of deficit, which is months or years of pain. That’s tough to overcome with “a little bit of hard work and self control”. Anecdotally, I’m a perfect example of this. I used to be a runner, and thin. Then I got sick, and my BMI doubled in months. It’s taken at least a year to undo months of illness. I can’t imagine what someone with chronic illness, or even more weight must go through. I live in a city and walk instead of drive, but not everyone has that lifestyle and it’s not a easy thing to change (“why don’t you just move a long way away to an expensive place and sell your car”). Of course, you should not require someone to do everything just right on paper for their views to be valid. Plenty of people struggle with the motivation, time, or finances to make healthy decisions, and those people are real and should be supported too. It’s been studied and proven ad nauseam that food can be addictive and that addictions aren’t a matter of “self control” the way people want it to be.
- ohnoitsahuman 2y ago
  >>No one is saying that being overweight is healthy. Uh... https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/health-and-wellness-articles/can-you-be-overweight-and-healthy https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/health-and-wellne...
  - lelandbatey 2y ago
    That link goes great lengths to not shame people for their weight and not shame them for a number while also being crystal clear that you have worse outcomes from obesity. Some key quotes: > Yes, you can be overweight and metabolically healthy. At the same time, we know that obesity is a disease that affects the body in many different ways. Thirteen types of cancer and 200 other health conditions are related to obesity. > Those numbers [weight on the scale] directly correlate to life expectancy. Also note, metabolic health doesn't mean "will live a happy and long life with good statistical outcomes for other areas". It mostly means things like "you're not anemic, not diabetic, you have acceptable cholesterol, etc." it doesn't mean "your knees will be fine as you age" nor does it mean "you are at a similar likelihood to develop cancer as someone who is not overweight". It's a pretty narrow definition that's focused on the hyper-immediate.

readthenotes1 2y ago

Those drugs do have some really drastic long-term debit of consequences for some. (1) It is amusing in some way that that doesn't get as much press as all the weight loss and prettification. (1) https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ozempic-side-effects.html https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ozempic-side-effects.html scroll down to serious side effects and note it leaves a very serious side effect https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ozempic-cause-muscle-loss-how-you-prevent-3578660/ https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ozempic-cause-muscle-l...

WithinReason 2y ago
You could do this with any drug, i.e. aspirin has a much longer list of side-effects: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html https://www.drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-effects.html