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I'm usually very critical of how Torvolds treats the people around him and the culture he maintains but this is a rare case when I'm not really against Torvalds

I'm usually very critical of how Torvolds treats the people around him and the culture he maintains but this is a rare case when I'm not really against Torvalds on this. I've had to remove Hector's postings from my feeds because he just constantly bitches and complains about pretty much everything. He's capable, smart, and is doing more than anybody ever will for Apple hardware. But he desperately needs to Stop Posting. Without anybody he works with regularly to give him a reality check, I don't think he's going to change course. I think Hector has some valid complaints about the contribution process to the kernel, I know. It fucking sucks ass and I've given up on trying. But screaming the way he does is counter productive to improving it

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
[flagged]
- dmix 2y ago
  This is the logic that generates generic corporate PR speak and a fear of being honest in organizational communication. It's not a more 'adult' world, it's just heavily sanitized. Calling something "a cancer in x" is a common analogy, we know what they mean.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    [flagged]
xenago 2y ago
I feel the exact same. Marcan has done amazing work, and his random blog entries etc have saved me hours of debugging time in the past. But jeez, it is really painful to see him say absolute nonsense like "If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas." - he has gotta Stop Posting and keep those kinds of thoughts away from his keyboard.
- hajile 2y ago
  If Linus thinks that the social media angle is wrong, he should defuse situations before they become explosive because even if one of the devs didn't bring up the drama, there are dozens of news companies that would have printed up articles the second they found the discussion anyway. Linus should have stepped in long before a maintainer blew their stack and started throwing out ultimatums. Once that happened, Linus could have still stopped everything with one sentence -- "Let me look into this.", but he did not. Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he says he wants (and will just encourage more of the same).
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - ferfumarma 2y ago
    > Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he claims. That is really an apt point. You can't condition people one way, and tell them to do the opposite.
    - bigiain 2y ago
      And it's not _that_ long ago since Linus was King of the arrogant and rude flame posts on what's effectively hos own "social media", the linux kernel mailing list. 10 years back, Linus _was_ "that guy". And it worked, extremely effectively, if you measure success by the ability to stamp on someone else's technical contribution by ridiculing them in public instead of making a convincing technical defense of his position in the discussion. https://github.com/corollari/linusrants https://github.com/corollari/linusrants
    - account42 2y ago
      You can expect professionals to not act like trained monkeys.
  - CountHackulus 2y ago
thinking_monkey 2y ago
Like others have mentioned it was really the hypocrisy of this guy that made me side against him, not so much whether he was right or wrong. He's a known, certified, card-carrying obnoxious rebel coming pretty close to violating a "Code of Conduct" himself pretty well every other day then his beef with Christoph about wanting to "mix languages" (C and Rust, of course) and Christoph said "I'm maintaining it and I'm not doing it, it's like a cancer" (I'm paraphrasing and he was notably not talking about Rust itself but "mixing" C and Rust) then Martin exploding and screaming that Christoph said "cancer" and that he had violated a Code of Conduct. Please. A serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  [flagged]
- slanterns 2y ago
  > then his beef with Christoph about wanting to "mix languages" (C and Rust, of course) and Christoph said "I'm maintaining it and I'm not doing it, it's like a cancer" You don't even take time to figure out who's the commit author.
noobermin 2y ago
I've said this before, but the rust community really seems to attract the most toxic and drama-thumping types as their icons. I'm not really sure why such types are drawn to it.
- rednafi 2y ago
  This. From shaming everything else as either slow or unsafe to rewrite the universe, the Rust community makes it hard for new comers to consider the language by its merit. But the good thing is, the hype has settled down and Rust has found its niche. It’s not tackling Go or Python anytime soon and competes in a different plane. Zig is another great alternative for someone like me who never found Rust a pleasant language to work with.
  - cute_boi 2y ago
    This is not because of Rust, but C.
- Ar-Curunir 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    If you don't want to use C perhaps you shouldn't contribute to a 33 year old project written in C?
    - dragonelite 2y ago
      It sounds so simple, I don't get it why the Rust people don't write their own operating system or bundle their human capital to such a project. They have been trying for years now to integrate Rust in the Linux kernel they could have made some good progress on a rust only OS by now. If only just a kernel that can run server like application without a gui shell.
      - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

[flagged]

dmix 2y ago
This is the logic that generates generic corporate PR speak and a fear of being honest in organizational communication. It's not a more 'adult' world, it's just heavily sanitized. Calling something "a cancer in x" is a common analogy, we know what they mean.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  [flagged]

xenago 2y ago

I feel the exact same. Marcan has done amazing work, and his random blog entries etc have saved me hours of debugging time in the past. But jeez, it is really painful to see him say absolute nonsense like "If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas." - he has gotta Stop Posting and keep those kinds of thoughts away from his keyboard.

hajile 2y ago
If Linus thinks that the social media angle is wrong, he should defuse situations before they become explosive because even if one of the devs didn't bring up the drama, there are dozens of news companies that would have printed up articles the second they found the discussion anyway. Linus should have stepped in long before a maintainer blew their stack and started throwing out ultimatums. Once that happened, Linus could have still stopped everything with one sentence -- "Let me look into this.", but he did not. Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he says he wants (and will just encourage more of the same).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ferfumarma 2y ago
  > Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he claims. That is really an apt point. You can't condition people one way, and tell them to do the opposite.
  - bigiain 2y ago
    And it's not _that_ long ago since Linus was King of the arrogant and rude flame posts on what's effectively hos own "social media", the linux kernel mailing list. 10 years back, Linus _was_ "that guy". And it worked, extremely effectively, if you measure success by the ability to stamp on someone else's technical contribution by ridiculing them in public instead of making a convincing technical defense of his position in the discussion. https://github.com/corollari/linusrants https://github.com/corollari/linusrants
  - account42 2y ago
    You can expect professionals to not act like trained monkeys.
- CountHackulus 2y ago

thinking_monkey 2y ago

Like others have mentioned it was really the hypocrisy of this guy that made me side against him, not so much whether he was right or wrong. He's a known, certified, card-carrying obnoxious rebel coming pretty close to violating a "Code of Conduct" himself pretty well every other day then his beef with Christoph about wanting to "mix languages" (C and Rust, of course) and Christoph said "I'm maintaining it and I'm not doing it, it's like a cancer" (I'm paraphrasing and he was notably not talking about Rust itself but "mixing" C and Rust) then Martin exploding and screaming that Christoph said "cancer" and that he had violated a Code of Conduct. Please. A serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

KennyBlanken 2y ago
[flagged]
slanterns 2y ago
> then his beef with Christoph about wanting to "mix languages" (C and Rust, of course) and Christoph said "I'm maintaining it and I'm not doing it, it's like a cancer" You don't even take time to figure out who's the commit author.

noobermin 2y ago

I've said this before, but the rust community really seems to attract the most toxic and drama-thumping types as their icons. I'm not really sure why such types are drawn to it.

rednafi 2y ago
This. From shaming everything else as either slow or unsafe to rewrite the universe, the Rust community makes it hard for new comers to consider the language by its merit. But the good thing is, the hype has settled down and Rust has found its niche. It’s not tackling Go or Python anytime soon and competes in a different plane. Zig is another great alternative for someone like me who never found Rust a pleasant language to work with.
- cute_boi 2y ago
  This is not because of Rust, but C.
Ar-Curunir 2y ago
[flagged]
- llm_trw 2y ago
  If you don't want to use C perhaps you shouldn't contribute to a 33 year old project written in C?
  - dragonelite 2y ago
    It sounds so simple, I don't get it why the Rust people don't write their own operating system or bundle their human capital to such a project. They have been trying for years now to integrate Rust in the Linux kernel they could have made some good progress on a rust only OS by now. If only just a kernel that can run server like application without a gui shell.
    - 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]