6 ms·

Advice from a once burnt-out programmer

136 points by anuraggoel 18y ago

maryrosecook 18y ago
For me, the key is "turn off the creativity spigot". I always thought that creativity is one of those lovely positive feedback loops: do more, have more ideas, do more. However, this only works for so long. I thought that trying to code a new site and write an album at the same time would work. It didn't. My ability to write songs just disappeared. However, I took Christmas off from creativity and now I'm flying.
- derefr 18y ago
  I have a blog; I find that I only end up posting to it when I avoid Reddit and HN for a while. Not because they're distracting, but because I comment so much that I end up with nothing, personally, to say on my blog; I just feel like I would be repeating myself. All my little ideas get bound up in the context of someone else's article rather than bound together in the strange seed of imagination that writing without a set topic requires.
jballanc 18y ago
I find that very often the perfect cure for too much "thinking" work is an awful lot of physical work. I started feeling a lot better about working on my Ph.D. when I got a second job stocking shelves on the night shift.
- michaelneale 18y ago
  Not quite the same as that - but I now live on a property that has a large amount of gardens to take care of (otherwise fire/snakes and general pestilence will ensue). its not every day, but its an epic effort when I do tackle it - but I view it as a) healthy excercise (on top of what I normally do) and b) somehow good for me - I do enjoy doing it and look forward to it.
- russell 18y ago
  I found carpentry to be a good revitalizer, building decks, fences and the like. Long hikes work. I cant turn off the thinking, but I can usually point it somewhere else.
  - aschobel 18y ago
    Ditto. Bike rides, washing dishes, fixing stuff around the apartment are all nice escapes from the cerebral world.
    - waratuman 18y ago
      Bike rides were amazing for me. I decided to bike to and from work (about 10 miles each way). I can't imagine not doing it now, its the best way to start and end my day.
      - staunch 18y ago
        Damn. 10 miles seems like a lot. Mostly flat? How long does it take you?
        maximilian 18y ago
        It probably takes him a bit more than 30 mins, and a bit less than 1 hr. Most people average 15mph or a little less biking. It obviously depends on how in shape you are, what kind of bike you ride, and how urban the ride is. I rode 5 miles every day over a summer and it was a pretty consistent 20 minutes. (even with some hills and stoplights.)
        huherto 18y ago
        You would be surprised of the distances you can make in a bike without burning yourself.
        waratuman 18y ago
        Took me about 35 - 40 min each way
      - 18y ago
- scott_s 18y ago
  I'm a Ph.D. student. Including the time spent getting my Master's, I've been in grad school five and a half years. If it wasn't for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and lifting, I would be lost. Training BJJ and MMA is physical, skill-based and social. I train with people who don't care if I miss or make the next paper deadline. They only care that I show up, work hard, and be friendly. Lifting by myself has a meditative quality. Most people go through a week without ever exposing themselves to real physical exertion, and I have no idea how they cope.
  - lallysingh 18y ago
    Also a Ph.D. student, Karatedo myself. My sensei's on my committee :-)
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
timr 18y ago
This is a strange piece of writing. On the one hand, it's telling you that burnout is real, and that you should be careful to avoid it. On the other hand, it sound an awful lot like "there are worse things in the world than sitting at a cushy desk for 10 hours a day, whiner." The latter seems to undermine the former. One of the best jobs I've ever had was manual labor: I was a bellman for a hotel. My primary job responsibilities included lifting heavy luggage in 100-degree heat, being yelled at by cranky guests, and running around non-stop for 10-hour shifts. What made it great? I was almost completely autonomous, and I got paid a little bit of money every time I did some work. There was almost always a direct consequence when I did good work, and nobody told me how to do my job. (My boss didn't even work on the same shift!) I've worked a lot of much more "comfortable" jobs since that time, and I've had a lot of time to think about why that luggage-monkey job was so much better than nearly all of the intellectual gigs I've held. So far, I think it boils down to a simple point: there's no worse tyranny than being told how to think. No matter how much luggage I lifted, I was always free with my thoughts. But when you work in an industry where your thoughts are your primary output, it's inevitable that someone (or something) will try to consume all of them. When that happens, you're on a path to burnout.
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  The latter seems to undermine the former. I don't read it that way at all. He's addressing burned-out people. When you're burned out, you find yourself believing with all your heart that your job is the worst job in the world. He's cautioning against that. He's saying that desk jobs aren't actually all that bad, provided you know the risks. Avoid burnout, and know its warning signs, and you may be able to sustainably appreciate the virtues of your desk job.
- homme 18y ago
  Well said. How offensive is that, that your thinking has been conscripted to someone elses vision? Another issue may be the social aspect of manual labor. I worked on a plastic assembly factory, with a more natural mix of male and female coworkers than any tech job I've had. The pay and shifts sucked, but at least it felt...natural. Work your shift, grab a brew, and go out with a few of the mates after the gig. Good times.
joubert 18y ago
"All the terrorists went to Iraq so I had to go there in order to shoot them." You are an idiot.
- compay 18y ago
  I'm guessing (hoping) that that was tongue-in-cheek.
  - joubert 18y ago
    It didn't seem sarcastic to me; he did join a violent organization, after all.
    - Maktab 18y ago
      It seems to me his comment was a tongue-in-cheek nod especially meant for people like you, who evidently can't see the military as being anything other than a 'violent organisation' whose enlistees must be violence-seekers themselves. I'm not surprised you missed the humour.
      - jscn 18y ago
        Uh, what exactly is the military if not a "violent organisation"? If the military doesn't qualify as a violent organisation, what does? I found the article to be pretty good aside from that comment, which was a little too on the nose to be funny for me...
        Maktab 18y ago
        So is your local police force, in that it's an organisation with the capacity and authority to commit violent acts on behalf of the state. But neither the military nor the police have violence as their sole objective; it's merely a tool to be used in the attainment of certain goals and policies such as national defence or community safety. But we're arguing semantics here. I wrote my response because the way in which joubert dismissed the possibility of the author's comment being sarcasm strongly implied that he regarded the military as an inherently violent organisation to which only violence-loving terrorist-killing wannabes would aspire. I resent that.
chops 18y ago
That was a fun read. Doing the same thing over and over again for years at the hours the writer says he was working is sure to induce burnout. But if you change even the industry you're writing for and/or the type of projects you're working on, as well as mixing some fun personal programming stuff in there, that helps to alleviate burnout.
amix 18y ago
I would feel rather empty without coding. That said, I think it's important to have a life outside of one's job. That way, one can escape to fuel up the batteries. Getting a girlfriend, doing some sports and having vacations is a really good way of preventing a burnout.
swilliams 18y ago
I wonder if such an outcome is avoidable if you have a better work-life balance. I like coding too, but I definitely have a line between my job and everything else.

136 points by anuraggoel 18y ago

For me, the key is "turn off the creativity spigot". I always thought that creativity is one of those lovely positive feedback loops: do more, have more ideas, do more. However, this only works for so long. I thought that trying to code a new site and write an album at the same time would work. It didn't. My ability to write songs just disappeared. However, I took Christmas off from creativity and now I'm flying.

derefr 18y ago
I have a blog; I find that I only end up posting to it when I avoid Reddit and HN for a while. Not because they're distracting, but because I comment so much that I end up with nothing, personally, to say on my blog; I just feel like I would be repeating myself. All my little ideas get bound up in the context of someone else's article rather than bound together in the strange seed of imagination that writing without a set topic requires.

jballanc 18y ago

I find that very often the perfect cure for too much "thinking" work is an awful lot of physical work. I started feeling a lot better about working on my Ph.D. when I got a second job stocking shelves on the night shift.

michaelneale 18y ago
Not quite the same as that - but I now live on a property that has a large amount of gardens to take care of (otherwise fire/snakes and general pestilence will ensue). its not every day, but its an epic effort when I do tackle it - but I view it as a) healthy excercise (on top of what I normally do) and b) somehow good for me - I do enjoy doing it and look forward to it.
russell 18y ago
I found carpentry to be a good revitalizer, building decks, fences and the like. Long hikes work. I cant turn off the thinking, but I can usually point it somewhere else.
- aschobel 18y ago
  Ditto. Bike rides, washing dishes, fixing stuff around the apartment are all nice escapes from the cerebral world.
  - waratuman 18y ago
    Bike rides were amazing for me. I decided to bike to and from work (about 10 miles each way). I can't imagine not doing it now, its the best way to start and end my day.
    - staunch 18y ago
      Damn. 10 miles seems like a lot. Mostly flat? How long does it take you?
      - maximilian 18y ago
        It probably takes him a bit more than 30 mins, and a bit less than 1 hr. Most people average 15mph or a little less biking. It obviously depends on how in shape you are, what kind of bike you ride, and how urban the ride is. I rode 5 miles every day over a summer and it was a pretty consistent 20 minutes. (even with some hills and stoplights.)
      - huherto 18y ago
        You would be surprised of the distances you can make in a bike without burning yourself.
      - waratuman 18y ago
        Took me about 35 - 40 min each way
    - 18y ago
scott_s 18y ago
I'm a Ph.D. student. Including the time spent getting my Master's, I've been in grad school five and a half years. If it wasn't for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and lifting, I would be lost. Training BJJ and MMA is physical, skill-based and social. I train with people who don't care if I miss or make the next paper deadline. They only care that I show up, work hard, and be friendly. Lifting by myself has a meditative quality. Most people go through a week without ever exposing themselves to real physical exertion, and I have no idea how they cope.
- lallysingh 18y ago
  Also a Ph.D. student, Karatedo myself. My sensei's on my committee :-)
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]

timr 18y ago

This is a strange piece of writing. On the one hand, it's telling you that burnout is real, and that you should be careful to avoid it. On the other hand, it sound an awful lot like "there are worse things in the world than sitting at a cushy desk for 10 hours a day, whiner." The latter seems to undermine the former. One of the best jobs I've ever had was manual labor: I was a bellman for a hotel. My primary job responsibilities included lifting heavy luggage in 100-degree heat, being yelled at by cranky guests, and running around non-stop for 10-hour shifts. What made it great? I was almost completely autonomous, and I got paid a little bit of money every time I did some work. There was almost always a direct consequence when I did good work, and nobody told me how to do my job. (My boss didn't even work on the same shift!) I've worked a lot of much more "comfortable" jobs since that time, and I've had a lot of time to think about why that luggage-monkey job was so much better than nearly all of the intellectual gigs I've held. So far, I think it boils down to a simple point: there's no worse tyranny than being told how to think. No matter how much luggage I lifted, I was always free with my thoughts. But when you work in an industry where your thoughts are your primary output, it's inevitable that someone (or something) will try to consume all of them. When that happens, you're on a path to burnout.

mechanical_fish 18y ago
The latter seems to undermine the former. I don't read it that way at all. He's addressing burned-out people. When you're burned out, you find yourself believing with all your heart that your job is the worst job in the world. He's cautioning against that. He's saying that desk jobs aren't actually all that bad, provided you know the risks. Avoid burnout, and know its warning signs, and you may be able to sustainably appreciate the virtues of your desk job.
homme 18y ago
Well said. How offensive is that, that your thinking has been conscripted to someone elses vision? Another issue may be the social aspect of manual labor. I worked on a plastic assembly factory, with a more natural mix of male and female coworkers than any tech job I've had. The pay and shifts sucked, but at least it felt...natural. Work your shift, grab a brew, and go out with a few of the mates after the gig. Good times.

joubert 18y ago

"All the terrorists went to Iraq so I had to go there in order to shoot them." You are an idiot.

compay 18y ago
I'm guessing (hoping) that that was tongue-in-cheek.
- joubert 18y ago
  It didn't seem sarcastic to me; he did join a violent organization, after all.
  - Maktab 18y ago
    It seems to me his comment was a tongue-in-cheek nod especially meant for people like you, who evidently can't see the military as being anything other than a 'violent organisation' whose enlistees must be violence-seekers themselves. I'm not surprised you missed the humour.
    - jscn 18y ago
      Uh, what exactly is the military if not a "violent organisation"? If the military doesn't qualify as a violent organisation, what does? I found the article to be pretty good aside from that comment, which was a little too on the nose to be funny for me...
      - Maktab 18y ago
        So is your local police force, in that it's an organisation with the capacity and authority to commit violent acts on behalf of the state. But neither the military nor the police have violence as their sole objective; it's merely a tool to be used in the attainment of certain goals and policies such as national defence or community safety. But we're arguing semantics here. I wrote my response because the way in which joubert dismissed the possibility of the author's comment being sarcasm strongly implied that he regarded the military as an inherently violent organisation to which only violence-loving terrorist-killing wannabes would aspire. I resent that.

chops 18y ago

That was a fun read. Doing the same thing over and over again for years at the hours the writer says he was working is sure to induce burnout. But if you change even the industry you're writing for and/or the type of projects you're working on, as well as mixing some fun personal programming stuff in there, that helps to alleviate burnout.

amix 18y ago

I would feel rather empty without coding. That said, I think it's important to have a life outside of one's job. That way, one can escape to fuel up the batteries. Getting a girlfriend, doing some sports and having vacations is a really good way of preventing a burnout.

swilliams 18y ago

I wonder if such an outcome is avoidable if you have a better work-life balance. I like coding too, but I definitely have a line between my job and everything else.