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US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek
- rasengan 2y agoAnd here I was thinking North Korea was the one with extreme laws on imports.
- mikestew 2y agoGuess what I, a person who mere minutes ago had little interest in downloading DeepSeek, am doing right now? Paging Ms. Streisand…
- andai 2y agoMaybe they spent the marketing budget on lobbying ;)
- fullshark 2y agoStreisand effect is overstated, censorship/bans work.
- rsync 2y agoWhat is a shell one-liner that downloads DeepSeek ?
- lvturner 2y agoollama pull deepseek-r1:671b Would be one option...
- addandsubtract 2y agoIf you have ollama installed and 404GB free space: ollama pull deepseek-r1:671b
- rsync 2y agoGenuinely curious - if one did not have any tooling at all (other than curl or wget or fetch, etc.) is there a one-liner to download only the deepseek model ? git clone --mirror ... ?
- cyberax 2y agoYes, you need git with git lfs. Then just: `git clone https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1 https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1`
- CamperBob2 2y agoYou probably want the GGUF versions, though, which are the ones you can actually run on reasonable hardware. Full R1 version here: https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-R1-GGUF/tree/main/DeepSeek-R1-Q8_0 https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-R1-GGUF/tree/main/De... Various smaller versions: https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-R1-GGUF/tree/main https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-R1-GGUF/tree/main There is also a 'BF16' version on that page with 16-bit weights, but I don't understand what it is or where it came from, given that the original model is FP8-native.
- rsync 2y agossh user@rsync.net git lfs install Password: Git LFS initialized. ... so far so good ... ssh user@rsync.net git clone https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1 Password: Cloning into 'DeepSeek-R1'... ... success. Done in the spirit of the Streisand Effect but I suppose the protest is watered down by the fact that this account is in Zurich ...
- 2030ai 2y agoOllama has underlying plain URLs but they are parts so you'd need something to combine them. But you can use curl. Otherwise a docker one liner to run ollama should do it. Docker is a "core util" right.
- l72 2y agoIf you have ollama: ollama run deepseek-r1:671b That is 404GB, but there are smaller versions too.
- jshprentz 2y agoAstonJ explained on DevTalk [1] how to download and run DeepSeek using LM Studio. [1] https://forum.devtalk.com/t/how-to-run-deepseek-on-your-mac-windows-and-linux/185713 https://forum.devtalk.com/t/how-to-run-deepseek-on-your-mac-...
- 9283409232 2y ago> The Republican Senator from Missouri Josh Hawley has introduced a new bill that would make it illegal to import or export artificial intelligence products to and from China, meaning someone who knowingly downloads a Chinese developed AI model like the now immensely popular DeepSeek could face up to 20 years in jail, a million dollar fine, or both, should such a law pass. You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies.
- gruez 2y agoup to 20 years. Realistically some kid downloading a model would get probation, and you'd only get 20 years if you were making an entire enterprise out of it. relevant: https://web.archive.org/web/20130208124604/https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentence-eleventy-million-years/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130208124604/https://www.popeh...
- pixl97 2y agoYou and I know this isn't how this works. The moment the government wants to punish someone over this they will grab some random kid that's barely done anything and threaten them with the full 20 years to serve as an example to others.
- gruez 2y agoWhere's the kid rotting in federal prison for downloading a mp3? Does the music/movie industry not have good enough lobbyists to make an example of a torrenter?
- pixl97 2y agoI don't know, you tell me what happend to that Aaron guy that ran Reddit?
- gruez 2y agoThanks for proving my point. Schwartz was offered 6 months in a minimum security prison, but he declined it because he specifically wanted a trial. Moreover that was for effectively DoSing JSTOR, a much more serious crime than some guy using a vpn to download an AI model. I don't think 6 months was justified, nor the string of crimes he was charged with, but OP's assertion that "You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies" is still false. >During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison if Swartz pled guilty to 13 federal crimes. Swartz and his lead attorney rejected the deal, opting instead for a trial where prosecutors would be forced to justify their pursuit of him.
- rolph 2y agoyou need this : https://github.com/deepseek-ai https://github.com/deepseek-ai
- apparent 2y agoIf the rationale is to avoid sending data back to Chinese servers, then shouldn't there be a carveout for downloading a model you run locally?
- wkat4242 2y agoThere's nothing rational about any of this. Just political crusading and posturing. Probably to appease trump and musk. Who were probably heavily affected when the stock market shocked last week.
- Terr_ 2y agoFrom a normal legislator in normal times, yes... but this is 2025, and the author happens to be an evil idiot. (I already spent the first Trump term trying to discern "malice or incompetence", it's a red-herring, the investment is unreasonable, I'm declaring it "both.")
- ijk 2y agoThis would assume that Hawley knows the difference, or that the court will care after the carelessly written legislation passes. (It's unlikely to ever get close to passing, but as the changes to R&D expenditure rules and the TikTok ban demonstrate, having the legislation make sense and be something everyone agrees upon isn't a requirement for making it the law of the land. > The bill, which also prohibits the “transfer of research,” could create an unworkable environment for computer scientists who make their research public, and regularly read AI papers published by Chinese researchers. > “Beyond just impacting people downloading models from China, the bill's penalties for the import to or export from China of AI technology and intellectual property could also potentially extend to anyone who publishes AI models or research papers on the open internet knowing they will be downloaded by people in China,” Bankston said. “Researchers are also threatened by the second half of the bill, which would directly outlaw American collaboration with researchers at basically any Chinese university or company—with a fine of up to 100 million dollars for any company that violates the prohibition, amongst other penalties.”
- CodeWriter23 2y agoModel? Or Malware?
- monetus 2y agoIt is useful context for people who aren't American to know how ridiculous Josh Hawley is, and has always been. The current authoritarian chaos could lend some weight to the possibility that this becomes law, but it is still unlikely.
- dylan604 2y agoYes, this is the same guy that was photographed raising his fist to the crowed, but then seen in video scurrying away from the scary crowd
- hackerdues 2y ago> It is useful context for people who aren't American to know how ridiculous Josh Hawley is, and has always been. Hawley looks like a clown and acts like a clown but he knows how to play the game. The only two things the guy talks about is how much he loves israel and hates china. With those credentials, he might be president one day.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fuzztester 2y agoCheck his raised fist salute here, and the entire article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Hawley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Hawley
- Yeul 2y agoFunny we used to say that about Trump. There are moments in history when anything can happen.
- forgotoldacc 2y agoGood rule of thumb: when something seems too stupid to actually happen, it's time to accept it'll probably happen.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ijk 2y agoOn the one hand Hawley proposes a lot of things that don't ever get close to becoming law. On the other hand, we did ban TikTok (which is currently unavailable on the app stores because of the ban). I can think of few ways to more effectively destroy any US advantage in AI compared with the sheer efficiency of making it illegal to learn from what competing countries have achieved. From the article, it sounds like the proposed legislation is deeply confused about what "downloading DeepSeek" means--they're _talking_ about banning the app, while _writing_ laws to ban "the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual proprietary developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China" which is a lot broader. Is it proposing to ban US citizens from reading research papers written by Chinese citizens? Or from publishing research in places that might be read by them? Apparently the EFF is concerned that the language of the bill is, indeed, that broad.
- dmix 2y agoNot sure it’s even worth speculating on a bill that’s merely been proposed. This one sounds DOA. But yeah TikTok ban was a very bad precedent, mostly because it was based on speculative risks, not hard proof of existing behaviour (TikTok not engaging didn't help at all either). Regardless of the merits I too hope it doesn’t have a ripple effect. National security is such a huge brush you could paint anything you want.
- mattmaroon 2y agoThe risk from TikTok is possibly not speculative at all. I think it’s quite likely the national security apparatus knows something and informed congressmen because they went from being opposed to it to being in favor of it in a short time.
- mr_toad 2y ago> I think it’s quite likely the national security apparatus knows something I couldn’t help but lol when I read that.
- Mistletoe 2y agoI remember this being mentioned as the next step in the previous thread haha. It's getting old and they need to find a new slant (ode to Bryan Colangelo). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42872142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42872142
- brianjking 2y agodear god this is idiotic. please no.
- Havoc 2y agoPretty sure that would be considered a hostile act
- tombert 2y agoI thought that Hawley had fallen into obscurity after he tried to steal the White House in 2021. I was kind of hoping that that would be the last we would hear from him. That's what I get for hoping for a better world.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- razster 2y agoAs if they could enforce this. The model is out there and the number of spinoffs is insane. We will have so many different AI's available that there is no way they will know if it was DeepSeek at all.
- ddtaylor 2y agoThey likely can't enforce it against the people they "need" to, but that won't stop it from stifling innovation. It mirrors what we saw in other industries that they basically had zero effective enforcement for, such as Cannabis sale and usage. It did not stop the sale or usage of Cannabis at all, it was very common for people to purchase and consume while illegal. But, it was "effective" at ensuring if anyone who wanted to explore that space or improve it essentially had to be a criminal and market forces were absent or distorted at best. Fast forward and look at areas that have passed recreational sale and usage laws and they are flourishing in this respect. They have innovated the market, reduced cost, created a safer and better product, etc. In every measurable way it has improved the situation for everyone involved, including people who are basically uninvolved but benefit from the massive tax revenue that often gets redirected to schools and other social programs. Banning DeepSeek and any other model ensures that when a kid comes up with something cool that using one of those models, he has to either make sure to keep it on a secret GitLab account or run `sed s/deepseek/muricahai/i *.py` before he shares it anywhere that might come back to him.
- pixl97 2y agoThey don't care about banning it, hell they'll be fine with you downloading it... until you get caught and hung and quartered in front of your peers. This is about instilling commercial fear, and stopping any US open source distributions to depend on it.
- nonchalantsui 2y agoSeveral states also couldn’t really enforce the porn ban. They still passed those bills. So crazier things have happened!
- cebert 2y agoWhile he’s at it, he should also make cryptography and math illegal too.
- Havoc 2y agoBut MAGA math will still be allowed
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago2+2=America?
- RIMR 2y agoNo joke, the bill is so broad that is essentially would ban mathematics research if the math could contribute to AI development in any way whatsoever. So, essentially all math...
- realreal89 2y agoNah, it only bans Je- I mean... woke math.
- porridgeraisin 2y agoBREAKING: Chinese Remainder Theorem Will Now Be Called the American Remainder Theorem
- CorpOverreach 2y agoFor those that don't get the reference or remember their history... this is exactly what the US has been trying to do since the Cold War eras. [1] It's absurd, and while it was mostly reformed in the last 1990's, parts of it still linger around. There's also plenty of good stories from it too, like how Bruce Schneier's "Applied Cryptography" was approved for export, but the exact source code that was it in, but on a floppy drive, was not. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... [2] https://www.ka9q.net/export/ https://www.ka9q.net/export/
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- appstorelottery 2y agoWe are living in strange times.
- xrd 2y agoI know a bunch of people that voted for Trump because they were worried government overreach had gone too far.
- ddtaylor 2y agoThey are going to protect our freedom of speech by banning the little blobs of bits we use in this new method of speech. It's the most complex newspaper ever built that can talk back to you. Any attempt to describe it will almost instantly use the word "speech" or "talk" or "chat" or something else so adjacent how could you not realize this my brain is actively fighting against continuing to type this
- throw16180339 2y agoThey ain't seen nothing yet.
- sxcurry 2y agoThat would be "Running Man" Hawley who was recorded scurrying like a rat through the House while his buddies were trying to overturn the election.
- westurner 2y agoThat would disincentive this type of research, for example: "DeepSeek's Hidden Bias: How We Cut It by 76% Without Performance Loss" (2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42891042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42891042 TIL about BBQ: Bias Benchmark for QA "BBQ: A Hand-Built Bias Benchmark for Question Answering" (2021) https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.08193 https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.08193
- jcgrillo 2y agothese people are majestically stupid
- throwaway098909 2y agoI'm just amused that when Chinese products were hurting the average manufacturer in US, and the majority of goods on Amazon, Walmart, Temu, Shein are "Made in China" it is good and capitalism. When Hollywood movies or music are pirated- its just kids having fun. But dare you try to hurt tech/software companies investments or revenue streams, and politicians suddenly get patriotic and want to send you to jail for 20 years!
- recursive 2y agoCan you just... download it before it becomes illegal? The wording suggests it's the importing that's illegal, not the possession. And once I possess it, I can... give it to a few of my closest friends? Without crossing any borders of course.
- odo1242 2y agoBy my understanding, yes. But this does mean you can’t use the internet to share it, because you can’t really guarantee internet communications aren’t crossing borders.
- jampekka 2y agoThe cat is out of the bag. Latest gen chips are all the "moat" USA has left, and even that's gonna be cracked by China in a few years. Hopefully Europe will start closer bilateral dealing with China, and not hang itself to the future hermit kingdom of america.
- nrarbv 2y agoHopefully, yes. Considering the situation in Germany, Scholz was Biden's errand boy, the prospective new chancellor Merz has worked at Blackrock, even the Germany-first party AfD is led by Weidel, who is ex Goldman Sachs. In Italy, the purportedly nationalist Meloni has caved in on all issues during the Biden administration and is now courting Trump. There needs to be a new generation of politicians who remember the more independent days from 1970-2000. It is a disgrace that first the US led the EU into their pet conflict in Ukraine, (deliberately) ruins EU-Russia and EU-China relations and now Trump mocks the EU, demands Greenland and EU payments to Ukraine to the tune of $200 billion.
- hsuduebc2 2y agoSo russia deliberately mabipulate energy prices, plans for years to invade their neighbor with purpose of annexation them and somehow it's US fault. Lol. US have many faults and I would surely appreciate bigger independence for Europe. That's a fact. But the rest is just made up nonsense. I wonder why your account was created only for this post, have one comment and is under two weeks old. Comrade gopnik.
- qwedqwh 2y agoAnother one of the 1.3 million Ukrainians in Germany, 250000 of whom are evading military service. All of them collect social security, live in relative comfort, take our apartments and lecture us if our opinions are not approved by the U.S. State Department, Biden edition. You do know that Trump admitted that the invasion was provoked by NATO?
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- idunnoman1222 2y agothe bar for proposing a stupid bill isn’t very high, but go on now take the bait
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 404mm 2y agoFunny enough, this is the kind of bill I’d expect to see in China.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoChina already doesn’t allow a lot of US tech companies to access their market. The EU does so with heavy restrictions and lots of fines. So denying access to American audiences only seems fair in terms of trade reciprocity. This is leaving aside the obvious national security risks of course.
- inetknght 2y ago> “Every dollar and gig of data that flows into Chinese AI are dollars and data that will ultimately be used against the United States,” Senator Hawley said in a statement. “America cannot afford to empower our greatest adversary at the expense of our own strength. Ensuring American economic superiority means cutting China off from American ingenuity and halting the subsidization of CCP innovation.” Oh goodness me!. If that's true, then why not just completely block China's IP addresses from our Internet? Why not just block all dollars from entering China? Oh right, because that's not the truth. It's certainly not the whole of it anyway.
- lenerdenator 2y agoThere's a point to be made that the Chinese don't play by the same set of rules; I don't know why Hawley doesn't just make that point. Oh, wait, I do know: he's an idiot.
- piva00 2y agoAmericans also tend to forget the tech they've stolen. Raytheon only exists due to radar technology stolen from the Brits in WW2 under the guise of American engineers underhandedly telling the UK they needed to bring the prototype to the US. Or the USA taking the UK's research on nuclear weapons during the Manhattan Project and cutting off access to it by British scientists. I'm not even British and those are just two examples from the top of my head. The hypocrisy is absolutely infuriating...
- southernplaces7 2y agoThis congressman is either just engaging in the typical hustler-level political grandstanding of many congressmen, or he's a pig-ignorant idiot who doesn't know how to connect data points and form reasoned concepts of reality from them. Total U.S.-China trade is roughly 760 billion dollars and includes some of the most wealthy and best connected companies in the U.S. Dollars of wealth and investments created through trade with Chinese companies (many of which are connected right to the CCP) pervade various levels of American society and the finances of who knows how many high.level politicians. The exact same thing applies to Chinese society and politicians with money gained from Chinese trade with American companies. That's how large.scale trade just works between two societies, and it's usually a good thing because it's better to trade goods and services than it is to trade bullets and missiles.. For his incoherent idiocy to be a bit more coherent, he'd have to talk about cutting off business relationships that affect and involve the majority of his colleagues in government and a great number of other powerful people.. But why think of that when some silly little media-popular cheap shot against a specific AI company can be vomited out for the public and your constituents?
- schroeding 2y agoI have no idea about the intricacies of US law, but reading the actual proposed bill[1], it seems incredibly broad. Like, "this may make publishing linear algebra papers on faster matrix operations illegal"-broad, as it includes everything which may contribute to AI research. Also: Preventing the import of "foreign" knowledge / research seems completely insane to me, no offense, no matter how one stands on export. There is nothing justifying this, you're just kneecapping yourself. [1] https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Hawley-Decoupling-Americas-Artificial-Intelligence-Capabilities-from-China-Act.pdf https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Haw...
- dghlsakjg 2y agoThe reality is that this should fail under first amendment rulings. Or it would if the courts abided by the principles they were supposed to.
- TrackerFF 2y agoDogshit "pick me!" bills that they introduce/sponsor for no other reason than to get the attention of corporate overlords. Practically zero chance to get through house and senate.
- actinium226 2y agoCan't wait to tell my cell mates what I'm in for.
- aorloff 2y agoTrump made this big announcement, and China bitchslapped him with math : We want it to be in this country and we're making it available. I'm going to help a lot through emergency declarations because we have an emergency. We have to get this stuff built. So, they have to produce a lot of electricity, and we'll make it possible for them to get that production done very easily at their own plants if they want, where they'll build at the plant, the AI plant, they'll build energy generation and that will be incredible. But it's technology and artificial intelligence all made in the USA. Begin immediately, Stargate will be building the physical and virtual infrastructure to power the next generation of advancements in AI. And this will include the construction of colossal data centers, very, very massive structures. I was in the real estate business, these buildings, these are big beautiful buildings that are going to employ a lot of people and physical campuses in locations currently being scouted nationwide.
- sockaddr 2y agoI felt like I was having a stroke while reading your comment and had to scroll back up to realize it was a Trump quote. Makes sense now.
- deadbabe 2y agoIf it becomes law people could just put it on hard drives and pass them around.
- CubsFan1060 2y agoAm I losing my mind, or have there been a lot of links to 404media.co recently?
- skywhopper 2y ago“Import” is not the same as “download”.
- danbolt 2y agoI feel like there’s an opportunity to revisit this with those "You wouldn't download a car." jokes.
- globalnode 2y agopure comedy
- stuckkeys 2y agoWell if you have not banked these files already, you probably should. Bank any open model. OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta are probably behind the potential ban lol.
- snapdaddy 2y agoIt would be good if we could create a digital fortress around the US that stopped unwanted things from coming in. Like a firewall for the country. . . .
- eru 2y agoA Great Firewall.
- datavirtue 2y agoBuilding the wall....
- hmry 2y agoThe firewall just got ten feet taller
- johnea 2y agoI wonder if one could get some member of the current congress to introduce a bill that proposes jailtime for the entire presidential cabinet? It wouldn't be any more stupid than this, and would probably solve a lot more of the US's problems...
- verdverm 2y agoThe "Life Begins At Erection" bill is some good satire by a sitting Congress person
- tptacek 2y agoThis is performative and obviously stupid, but to add some technical color to it: in the alternate universe where this passed, rather than floating around as a signalling tool for Josh Hawley, ordinary violators would see nothing resembling a 20 year sentence. This statute falls under the 2M5 section of the sentencing guideline (for export violations); it has a base offense level of 14 (15-21 months) and is probation-eligible at that level. There are lots of accelerators for 2M5 offenses, but it's hard to see any of them applying to casual, or even commercial, users of DeepSeek. There are level-reducers that would apply. (2M5 crimes can optionally be sentenced under 2B1.1, which is what most crimes we talk about on HN, particularly CFAA, are sentenced with; there the penantly would scale with financial damages. Again: hard to see how that would meaningfully apply here). None of this is to suggest any federal prosecution for using DeepSeek would ever be reasonable. I don't even think Josh Hawley believes that. I think he just feels lonely and left out.
- aussieguy1234 2y agoToo many people have it now. What would be likely to happen if the bill passed is selective enforcement. Many dictatorships have very broad laws that almost everyone inevitably breaks, but as long as you don't challenge the dictator or speak out against them in any way, you are safe. But the moment you speak out against the government, suddenly the law gets enforced, since in the governments eyes, you have now committed the one true crime.
- tptacek 2y agoAmong the many reasons this could never pass: it would require extensive cooperation with the Senate minority (the majority holds control by just a thread, and not by enough move anything but reconciliation bills through) which isn't going to cooperate on anything resembling this.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoThere's only one Senator I trust to be able to understand the nuances of these kinds of issues and that's Ron Wyden, he's a Democrat. I would hope he would filibuster this if it came to the floor. As an Oregonian, I would definitely call his office if this came up for a vote.
- JasserInicide 2y agoA lot of people in this new federal government are terrified of China
- matthest 2y agoI think it's the opposite, despite the people who are extra loud about it. Trump admires Xi and Elon loves China. The people at the very top are more China-friendly than the last administration.
- cma 2y agoThe tariffs are about undermining the progressive tax system in the US and around the world (after retaliation the retaliating country's tax code gets less progressive) not China. That's mainly why they are being applied to everyone. Other reason is Trump can get favors and distractions on tap for negotiating each case.
- dluan 2y agoChina was Tesla's largest market and major manufacturing base for the international EV market. Up until this year when Chinese domestic EVs took over, and it's looking like Tesla will never get anywhere close to the top ever again.
- yapyap 2y agogenius
- mikeInAlaska 2y agoFrom the article: > Hawley introduced the legislation, titled the Decoupling America’s > Artificial Intelligence Capabilities from China Act, > on Wednesday of last year. On Wednesday of last year you say.... hmmm what wrote this article
- cma 2y agoDeepseekv3 was released in Dec. and already had really good non reasoning benchmarks and most of the inference cost savings.
- cma 2y agoSubmitted this a day ago and it got flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907234
- Beijinger 2y agoWhere can I download it as a zip file?
- scarface_74 2y agoThis is dumb. But I guess I shouldn’t expect any better. Someone on LinkedIn posted how “dangerous” it was that AWS was going to make DeepSeek available and hosted on Bedrock because it would give China access to data. Not understanding that if it were hosted by AWS, China wouldn’t have access to the data. This is like this bill where he doesn’t understand that if you “download” the model, you aren’t giving China access to your data.
- an-allen 2y agooooo the forbidden linear algebra equation. bd move lets see how this plays out!
- xyst 2y agoWhat a steaming pile of shit from this current administration
- plagiarist 2y agoYet another egregious violation of the Bill of Rights.
- an-allen 2y agooooo the forbidden linear algebra equation. Bold move, lets see how it plays out.
- TZubiri 2y agoWow what a sensationalist clickbait. The bill says nothing about deepseek. " bill that would make it illegal to import or export artificial intelligence products to and from China" Also it makes importing illegal, which means that you as a consumer wouldn't even be able to run it (ip or dns block).
- odo1242 2y agoThe bill was specifically introduced because of DeepSeek (words of the congressman) and has the effect of banning DeepSeek.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- crmd 2y ago>[I]nterpreting this law in such a way would further solidify the dominance of proprietary AI over open or academic research. This goes to the heart of the debate here. Obviously forking an open-source model of Chinese origin is not “sending dollars and gigs of data” to China. Hawley is a non-stupid person so he almost certainly gets this. The issue is that for a few US companies with >>$100B of market cap/valuation whose boards happen to be extremely plugged into Washington’s money machine, their strategic enemy isn’t China; it’s open-source models.
- jameslk 2y agoThe bill is political theater and this article is playing into it. A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech. This is not the same circumstance as the law that required TikTok divest of its platform, which was over spying concerns[0]. You can’t spy on Americans when data is kept on US servers. 0. Per the TikTok Supreme Court ruling: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf There is no doubt that, for more than 170 million Americans, TikTok offers a distinctive and expansive outlet for expression, means of engagement, and source of community. But Congress has determined that divestiture is necessary to address its well-supported national security concerns regarding TikTok’s data collection practices and relationship with a foreign adversary. For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the challenged provisions do not violate petitioners’ First Amendment rights.
- selfhoster 2y ago> A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech. Even Google AI said that an LLM is not itself covered under free speech; only the content it produces, which itself is ironic since AI companies stole world copyrighted data to feed into their LLM software machines.
- nl 2y ago> A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech. This is absolutely not settled law.
- jameslk 2y agoOther than intellectual property concerns and some obtuse arguments about the model inciting others to break the law (which isn’t specific to China anyway), I’d be really curious what good arguments can be made about how it isn’t protected by the first amendment and how those arguments could target Chinese models specifically
- munchler 2y ago
- majormajor 2y agoIf DeepSeek is data harvesting downloading it and running it locally should be the preferred option?
- promptdaddy 2y agoGood point
- deathanatos 2y agoPerhaps … except for the "believe it or not, straight to jail" part of the proposed law?
- lenerdenator 2y agoGod, do I hate my state's politicians.
- Over2Chars 2y agoI propose the death penalty for politicians who propose ineffective laws. (P.s. I'm not a politician)
- honestSysAdmin 2y ago[dead]
- verdverm 2y agoSo does this mean we will not be able to download works like open-r1, an open reproduction of deepseek? https://github.com/huggingface/open-r1 https://github.com/huggingface/open-r1
- markus_zhang 2y ago"Underpaid? Backbench MPs, Darling? Being an MP is a vast subsidised ego trip. It's a job for which you need no qualifications, no compulsory hours of work, no performance standards. A warm room and subsidised meals for a bunch of self-opinionated windbags and busybodies who suddenly find people taking them seriously because they got letters "MP" after their names. How can they be underpaid when there're about two hundred applicants for every vacancy? You could fill every seat twenty times over even if they have to pay to do the job." -- Honorable ex Prime Minister Jim Hacker
- whatever1 2y agoSo the Bill is proposed by the same Hawley who was giving fist ups to the mob that was chanting for the hanging of the vice president, attacking police officers, and literally defecating and breaking the Capitol building?
- robomartin 2y agoBadly written and likely fair to characterize it as dumb. It's probably more about the theatrics of politics than a real intent to pass such a stupid idea as a bill. That said, there has always been a serious imbalance with China that has yet to be addressed as far as I know. This isn't a US-vs-China thing. This applies to every country in the world. In most nations around the world China is able to buy land, property, businesses, etc. The reciprocal isn't true. We could say a similar thing about intellectual property. Good luck enforcing yours in China. Entire industries in China have been built on the back of, to be kind, borrowed IP. One could have made the argument to look the other way 40 or 50 years ago, when China was an agrarian society in need of economic help. That is no longer the case, by far. Why is it that residents or companies from western countries cannot fully own property in China in the same way as the Chinese can do everywhere else in the world? This concept of lack of reciprocity extends into such things as data and privacy rights and ownership. Everyone knows that any service based around user data (TikTok, AI, whatever) based in China creates 100% exposure of that data to government entities, without any level of transparency or accountability --particularly if you are not Chinese and likely worse if you are. I think it is good and likely necessary to call China to task on these issues and apply (or continue to apply) pressure for them to open the doors to reasonable levels of reciprocity. The relationship, otherwise, is decidedly one-sided, and this means that nobody will ever trust them. Why would anyone send AI queries and data to servers in China? Or use any current or future code generator offerings to work on projects? That would be, at a minimum, suicidal. So, while this bill is bonkers, maybe it launches a conversation that might, in a few years, drive reform that could open China and Chinese services like TikTok and AI to the world without fear of use, abuse and repercussions stemming from the nature of their society and government. To be sure, I think China would benefit immensely from a greater degree of openness.
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904838
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- addled 2y agoAm I reading the bill text wrong or is it really so general it would also apply to devices assembled in China that can perform AI operations? Seems like there'd be pushback from Apple, MS, etc on that one.
- addled 2y agoAh, nevermind, just saxophones: > ... tenor processing unit...
- m3kw9 2y agoDeepseek still no.1 on App Store. How..
- tehjoker 2y ago[flagged]
- napierzaza 2y ago[dead]
- boringg 2y agoHawley limited power this is an attention ploy.
- Brian_K_White 2y agoaww man, you telling me I gotta go download this huge thing now even though I don't actually care about running it myself... (I just assume it's huge. I'm Spartacus and Spartacus doesn't really know about such things.)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- benreesman 2y agoEveryone seems to start with the premise that it benefits “the United States” to “lead” in AI. But that’s not obvious at all! It seems bad for rights holders of many kinds of intellectual property (or else they wouldn’t be filing so many lawsuits). It seems bad for progress in the field: for the most part our frontier vendors don’t contribute innovations back to the commons in anything like the way that DeepSeek has. This seems to mean that effort is duplicated at tremendous cost in a way that props up famine gouging markups for NVIDIA but little else. It seems bad for the employees of those same vendors: they’ve been getting laid off left, right, and center with AI as a (dubious) justification. It’s far from obvious that further growth will be powered by renewable energy, there is a lot of talk indicating that much of it will end up being coal brought back on line. And even the investors are shaping up to be heavily in Japan and the UAE if this Stargate stuff is real. It sounds like Mag7 shareholders maybe? And even that isn’t clear? Maybe I’m missing something obvious, but extremely influential people in the space are selling this family of plan with visions of “wages crashing to zero”, which yeah no thanks. https://x.com/pmarca/status/1882993091784880557 https://x.com/pmarca/status/1882993091784880557
- notatoad 2y agoin an environment where the government isn't clearly working at cross-purposes to the people, the argument would be that the country where the leading AI companies are based will be the country who has the most power to regulate AI.
- bikenaga 2y agoThe bill is here: https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Hawley-Decoupling-Americas-Artificial-Intelligence-Capabilities-from-China-Act.pdf https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Haw... I'm reading this and it can't possibly mean what it says. Section 3 says: (a) PROHIBITION ON IMPORTATION.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China is prohibited. (b) PROHIBITION ON EXPORT.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the export, reexport, or in-country transfer of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property to or within the People’s Republic of China is prohibited. Note that in (a) and (b) the third part of the "or" clause is "intellectual property". It isn't qualified as (say) "artificial intelligence intellectual property". And in Sec. 2 (6) "Intellectual property" is defined as work protected by copyright, property protected by patent, stuff which is trademarked, or trade secrets. But any preprint on (e.g.) arxiv.org is copyrighted, hence "intellectual property" under this definition. So as written, this seems to prohibit the exchange of research in general with people in the PRC. The restrictions on AI are problematic enough, but this is just ridiculous.
- DonHopkins 2y agoWhy throw them in jail when you can just run them over with tanks then deny it ever happened?
- superqd 2y agoIt is so deeply painful to witness in my lifetime how our nation's law makers have openly become so profoundly morally and intellectually bankrupt.
- timnetworks 2y agoIt was probably always a game. Explaining the difference between downloading the weights and using the website hosted in china is beyond our collective scope of interest/attention, and that's probably a bit worrying. The Crown would call Franklin intellectually bankrupt but here we are.
- duxup 2y ago>” America cannot afford to empower our greatest adversary at the expense of our own strength. Ensuring American economic superiority means cutting China off from American ingenuity and halting the subsidization of CCP innovation.” Meanwhile we seem interested in cutting research and pissing off our neighbors… presumably opening opportunities for China. I don’t understand what if anything these Senators are thinking. These guys are China’s best friends.
- DrPhish 2y ago"Being in possession of a contraband Chinese Artificial Intelligence" is honestly one of the most cyberpunk things I can imagine. I hadn't felt like I lived in the future until now, honestly.
- jarbus 2y agoI didn’t think I could be further shocked by how dangerously incompetent our leadership is, but here we are. It’s mind blowing that someone would propose this without talking to a single person that understands the subject area.
- ericye16 2y agoDoes anyone have a magnet link for the weights? In case it's removed from HF.
- rcdwealth 2y ago[dead]
- GrandfatherTECH 2y agoFirstly, i have to say i am not surprised it's coming from a Republican senator. Secondly, he proposes lots of shit. Nothing gets close to law. The real question is how did he even become a senator? It has to be investigated.