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Yeah, they use the same scam in Europe as well. There was a documentary following some customs officials a few months back, apparently they even use "smurfing"

Yeah, they use the same scam in Europe as well. There was a documentary following some customs officials a few months back, apparently they even use "smurfing" - they split large orders into multiple parcels with nominated "lower" values [1]... but of course sometimes the customs officials note "hey, I saw that recipient just a few packages ago". It's high time that we put the hammer down on Temu, Shein et al., and that hard. China and its companies routinely abuse relaxed rules meant for "developing" countries such as reduced, subsidised shipping or the mentioned tax simplifications - that status absolutely has to end rather sooner than later. And if they do not want to do that for whatever (corrupt?) reasons, at the very least mandate live feeds for all incoming parcels to customs. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySUKSRydpnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySUKSRydpnY

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
> It's high time that we put the hammer down on Temu, Shein et al., and that hard. Why? Their business model is perfectly legal, and in fact, as the article makes clear, it's not even a "loophole" -- what they're taking advantage of is an explicit provision of law. On the other side of the equation, US consumers benefit from lower prices, and often superior quality, relative to what they'd otherwise get on Amazon and Wal-Mart. Besides, Amazon and Wal-Mart are often (in some retail categories even usually) middlemen for Chinese manufacturers. Shein, Temu, et al. are demonstrably superior middlemen. So what's the harm?
- mindslight 2y ago
  > So what's the harm? Bezos is looking at the tariff increases and wondering what the fuck he just bought. Welcome to the party, pal. There are no free returns on this one.
  - datavirtue 2y ago
    Not to mention what happens when the people that have a clue pull back spending to stack cash while a multiprong trade war erupts. "A little pain?"
  - oneshtein 2y ago
    It looks like Russians bought it, like in other countries. For me, the whole situation reminds me Soviet «icebreaker» plan of war with NATO.
- lumost 2y ago
  Were making it cheaper to import product from across the globe than to manufacture and ship across town. Its in most countries interest to build things locally if they can. A policy which penalizes a local business in favor of a foreign one is pathological.
  - oa335 2y ago
    > Its in most countries interest to build things locally if they can. Why is it in a country's interest to build things "locally"? Is that true in all cases?
    - Muromec 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - oa335 2y ago
        Have you known anyone addicted to opiates? In my experience and observations, working a job hardly precludes people from using opiates.
        Muromec 2y ago
        I suspect the causation is point the other wat -- people who don't have a path forward in life (which includes unemployed and otherwise destitute) start doing drugs.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    But it raises the price for consumers! But it also employs nobody. If everyone's jobless what's the point? Is the end goal really manufacturing everything offshore and employing nobody? How the heck is that sustainable? What would such an economy even look like?
    - Muromec 2y ago
      >What would such an economy even look like? You get your monthly dividents from CHOAM shares and IP that you license to the thinking machine and buy spice to enjoy decadency of life of course.
- toss1 2y ago
  The harm is to every other vendor who actually pays their taxes, and every resident of the country who now gets lower services for the taxes they pay, because those scammers are cheating at scale.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > So what's the harm? Imagine you're making a product that is produced in America (or you import it wholesale from China) and conforms to American standards for product safety - fire resistance, toxic chemicals, electrical safety, IT security, EM emissions. Now, some Chinese cloners come, clone your product but shart on all the regulations, cut corners everywhere and sell it for half the price or less on Temu. You're out of business, your employees are out of jobs, the US taxman is out of all of your tax revenue, and to top it off people complain about "your" product being faulty/incompliant/dangerous because they got shipped illegitimate clones. In the worst case people actually die in their sleep because the shoddy li-ion battery cell erupts in flames. Everyone suffers from this form of unfair competition. > Besides, Amazon and Wal-Mart are often (in some retail categories even usually) middlemen for Chinese manufacturers. Indeed, but at least Wal-Mart makes rigorous QA for everything they sell in a store (they're known to be especially cut-throat). And Amazon at least gives you your money back no questions asked.
  - krupan 2y ago
    This whole scenario assumes that the majority of people are just plain dumb, and if that's the case then we are screwed as a society no matter what regulations and tariffs you put in place
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > This whole scenario assumes that the majority of people are just plain dumb No, but price-driven. That's the point. Temu, Shein and whatnot other "fast fashion" is successful because they are so much cheaper than the competition (who has to pay for shipping, customs, ...), and an ever larger part of Western populations has to struggle financially every single paycheck. Replacing domestic or even mid-quality Chinese clothes with Shein is just like the Boots theory [1]. The problem is, once too much of the lower income bracket falls away on the demand side, anything of higher quality on the producer side doesn't have enough of a market to sustain itself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
      - 2y ago
- cameldrv 2y ago
  The nature of parcel shipping and ecommerce has changed. Years ago it wasn’t economically practical to order things directly from China and ship them to the U.S. Instead you’d fill up a container and send it to a U.S. distributor, and pay the tariff. The de mininimis exemption was to avoid hassle and overhead for small value transactions. Currently though temu and schein have a big advantage over Amazon and U.S. retailers because they completely avoid tariffs by shipping direct from China.
  - novok 2y ago
    Temu style stuff has been around since the late 2000s, but it was ebay and not as popular.
- briandear 2y ago
  > superior quality citation needed. Also, Shein is notorious for their sweatshops, forced labor and all sorts of highly unethical business practices. A terrible company that should be destroyed, especially since part of their business model is targeting pre-teen girls with highly manipulative and exploitive content.

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago

> It's high time that we put the hammer down on Temu, Shein et al., and that hard. Why? Their business model is perfectly legal, and in fact, as the article makes clear, it's not even a "loophole" -- what they're taking advantage of is an explicit provision of law. On the other side of the equation, US consumers benefit from lower prices, and often superior quality, relative to what they'd otherwise get on Amazon and Wal-Mart. Besides, Amazon and Wal-Mart are often (in some retail categories even usually) middlemen for Chinese manufacturers. Shein, Temu, et al. are demonstrably superior middlemen. So what's the harm?

mindslight 2y ago
> So what's the harm? Bezos is looking at the tariff increases and wondering what the fuck he just bought. Welcome to the party, pal. There are no free returns on this one.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  Not to mention what happens when the people that have a clue pull back spending to stack cash while a multiprong trade war erupts. "A little pain?"
- oneshtein 2y ago
  It looks like Russians bought it, like in other countries. For me, the whole situation reminds me Soviet «icebreaker» plan of war with NATO.
lumost 2y ago
Were making it cheaper to import product from across the globe than to manufacture and ship across town. Its in most countries interest to build things locally if they can. A policy which penalizes a local business in favor of a foreign one is pathological.
- oa335 2y ago
  > Its in most countries interest to build things locally if they can. Why is it in a country's interest to build things "locally"? Is that true in all cases?
  - Muromec 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - oa335 2y ago
      Have you known anyone addicted to opiates? In my experience and observations, working a job hardly precludes people from using opiates.
      - Muromec 2y ago
        I suspect the causation is point the other wat -- people who don't have a path forward in life (which includes unemployed and otherwise destitute) start doing drugs.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  But it raises the price for consumers! But it also employs nobody. If everyone's jobless what's the point? Is the end goal really manufacturing everything offshore and employing nobody? How the heck is that sustainable? What would such an economy even look like?
  - Muromec 2y ago
    >What would such an economy even look like? You get your monthly dividents from CHOAM shares and IP that you license to the thinking machine and buy spice to enjoy decadency of life of course.
toss1 2y ago
The harm is to every other vendor who actually pays their taxes, and every resident of the country who now gets lower services for the taxes they pay, because those scammers are cheating at scale.
mschuster91 2y ago
> So what's the harm? Imagine you're making a product that is produced in America (or you import it wholesale from China) and conforms to American standards for product safety - fire resistance, toxic chemicals, electrical safety, IT security, EM emissions. Now, some Chinese cloners come, clone your product but shart on all the regulations, cut corners everywhere and sell it for half the price or less on Temu. You're out of business, your employees are out of jobs, the US taxman is out of all of your tax revenue, and to top it off people complain about "your" product being faulty/incompliant/dangerous because they got shipped illegitimate clones. In the worst case people actually die in their sleep because the shoddy li-ion battery cell erupts in flames. Everyone suffers from this form of unfair competition. > Besides, Amazon and Wal-Mart are often (in some retail categories even usually) middlemen for Chinese manufacturers. Indeed, but at least Wal-Mart makes rigorous QA for everything they sell in a store (they're known to be especially cut-throat). And Amazon at least gives you your money back no questions asked.
- krupan 2y ago
  This whole scenario assumes that the majority of people are just plain dumb, and if that's the case then we are screwed as a society no matter what regulations and tariffs you put in place
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > This whole scenario assumes that the majority of people are just plain dumb No, but price-driven. That's the point. Temu, Shein and whatnot other "fast fashion" is successful because they are so much cheaper than the competition (who has to pay for shipping, customs, ...), and an ever larger part of Western populations has to struggle financially every single paycheck. Replacing domestic or even mid-quality Chinese clothes with Shein is just like the Boots theory [1]. The problem is, once too much of the lower income bracket falls away on the demand side, anything of higher quality on the producer side doesn't have enough of a market to sustain itself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
    - 2y ago
cameldrv 2y ago
The nature of parcel shipping and ecommerce has changed. Years ago it wasn’t economically practical to order things directly from China and ship them to the U.S. Instead you’d fill up a container and send it to a U.S. distributor, and pay the tariff. The de mininimis exemption was to avoid hassle and overhead for small value transactions. Currently though temu and schein have a big advantage over Amazon and U.S. retailers because they completely avoid tariffs by shipping direct from China.
- novok 2y ago
  Temu style stuff has been around since the late 2000s, but it was ebay and not as popular.
briandear 2y ago
> superior quality citation needed. Also, Shein is notorious for their sweatshops, forced labor and all sorts of highly unethical business practices. A terrible company that should be destroyed, especially since part of their business model is targeting pre-teen girls with highly manipulative and exploitive content.