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Costa Rican supermarket wins trademark battle against Nintendo
- moxvallix 2y agoIs it just me, or does the super market's logo look AI generated?
- smt88 2y agoUnfortunate compression issue. Here's what it actually looks like: https://www.polygon.com/news/516748/super-mario-grocery-nintendo-trademark-costa-rica-grocery-store-supermarket https://www.polygon.com/news/516748/super-mario-grocery-nint...
- MarioMan 2y agoI think it's been AI upscaled. Here's another article with more sane looking images of the logo: https://www.eurogamer.net/nintendo-loses-trademark-fight-against-super-mario-supermarket https://www.eurogamer.net/nintendo-loses-trademark-fight-aga...
- pinko 2y agoKnowing quite a bit about the world of Costa Rican grocery stores -- many of which started using "Hiper-" (spanish for hyper-) as a prefix in their names a few decades ago, to one-up markets merely named "Super-" [1] -- I'm actually quite suprised they didn't just rename themselves "Hiper Mario" and save the legal fees. But bravo to them for winning against all odds. [1] https://ticotimes.net/2004/04/02/hipermas-supermarket-aims-for-2005-opening https://ticotimes.net/2004/04/02/hipermas-supermarket-aims-f...
- wslh 2y ago"Hiper" refers to something bigger than "Super", and it's common to respect that convention. Wikipedia defines both [1][2]. From this photo[3] the size of "Super Mario" follows that convention. It is obviously true that there are more options for names but congratulations to "Don Mario". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermarket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermarket [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarket [3] https://www.techspot.com/news/106591-super-mario-supermarket-costa-rica-wins-trademark-dispute.html https://www.techspot.com/news/106591-super-mario-supermarket...
- fsckboy 2y agoi think hypermarkets achieve their bigness not by being bigger supermarkets, but by selling everything a supermarket sells, and then also selling everything a department store sells.
- dwood_dev 2y agoYes. A super is a like Kroger's or Walmart Express. A hyper is a Walmart Supercenter.
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- kragen 2y agoHe also could have named it "Super Alfaro" or "Super Jose".
- IG_Semmelweiss 2y agodoesn't have the same ring to it, now does it ?
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- dang 2y agoThis comment has to go in https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights.
- RajT88 2y ago> Knowing quite a bit about the world of Costa Rican grocery stores I love the internet. Mostly.
- Loic 2y agoThis is interesting. We have the same in France. The first big "big surface" stores were named supermarché, then we got hypermarché and the funniest is that now we have superette, a small surface store, branded like the super/hyper but within the city center. The "ette" French suffix is to reduce the main word.
- _nalply 2y agoYou mean a diminutive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminutive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminutive > A diminutive is a word obtained by modifying a root word to convey a slighter degree of its root meaning, either to convey the smallness of the object or quality named, or to convey a sense of intimacy or endearment, and sometimes to belittle something or someone. Yeah, it's funny, a word consisting both of an augmentative (the opposite of diminutive) and a diminutive.
- Loic 2y agoThank you, I had the German word in mind and was not able to find the English one in my foggy brain.
- Timwi 2y agoUm. The German word is Diminutiv. Were you thinking of „Verkleinerungsform“? Do people still use those Germanized terms? It feels a little old-fashioned to me, like saying „besitzanzeigendes Fürwort“ instead of Possessivpronomen.
- LeonidasXIV 2y ago> Do people still use those Germanized terms? In a way? I always found it more sensible to use German words like "Namenwort" instead of "Nomen" to express German grammar, instead of using latin terms. After all Latin is a language that comes from a completely different language family to start with and is not used at all in Germany except when wanting to pretend you're fancy (law, medicine, grammar).
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- estebarb 2y agoActually, "hiper-something" trend started with Hipermas, created by a bigger local supermarket chain (Corporación Supermercados Unidos, which owned others like: Más x Menos [More for less] and Pali). They were bought by and renamed to Walmart. Sharing the "hiper" prefix I only know HiperDiego, which like a Walmart big. Here most are "super-" if they are big enough. if they are smaller "mini super-". All the categories before are self service. If they are really tiny (a window) and not self service then they are called "pulpería".
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- oniony 2y agoSo, Nintendo of America, whose president is Doug Bowser, and who previously sued a Gary Bowser, had gone to court with a José Mario Alfaro González, who owns the supermarket chain Super Mario. I'm pretty sure, at this point, they're just joshing us all.
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- evan_ 2y ago> José Mario Alfaro González Just to add to it all: In Paper Mario: TTYD there’s a segment where Mario infiltrates a professional wrestling promotion, and in the English translation he uses the name “The Great Gonzalez”.
- jmcgough 2y agoMost likely a reference to the boxer Rodolfo González, who was extremely popular in Japan and is frequently referenced in video games (e.g. Gato in Chrono Trigger is named Gonzalez in the Japanese release).
- evan_ 2y agoInteresting, I never knew (or bothered to look into…) the context, but it did seem like a non sequitur given Mario’s vague Italian heritage. That seems likely.
- bilekas 2y agoHaha I actually had no idea about all this, given Nintendos proclivity for suing people over seemingly small things, I can imagine the hiring process involved something along the lines of "If you don't join us, we'll sue your family for infringement"
- Cumpiler69 2y agoI'm still waiting for Nintendo to sue parents for naming their kids Mario.
- nadermx 2y agoPrevious conversation https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868220
- johng 2y agoI miss super Josette markets
- xyst 2y agoNintendo would rather dump endless amounts of money into law firms, waste time, bully small time players; rather than invest their profits into the company and fixing their god awful network/servers/net code used for multiplayer on the Switch. Glad they lost.
- nosioptar 2y agoThe overzealous legal action on Nintendo's part of the biggest reason I stopped buying anything Nintendo. I haven't owned a Nintendo since the SNES.
- smt88 2y agoIn unregulated environments, it's often more cost effective to be a bully (in the market or the courts) than to sincerely compete. You can see the same behavior from Meta (which buys competitors instead of innovating) and xAI (which is suing OpenAI).
- robertlagrant 2y agoWe don't have unregulated environments.
- kleton 2y agocf Mickey S.R.L. in Paraguay
- kennysoona 2y agoRelated: Paraguay Loves Mickey, Its Cartoon Mouse. Disney Doesn’t - https://archive.ph/4E2Cj https://archive.ph/4E2Cj
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoNintendo continues to be petty assholes to ordinary folks around the world. I don’t know many other companies with such a reputation of petty litigation with dubious claims.
- egypturnash 2y agoThe Mouse.
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoTouché
- mrandish 2y ago> a reputation of petty litigation with dubious claims. True but recently they've turned much worse by launching a major campaign of unprecedented legal attacks across the historical preservation, retro emulation and fan creation communities. While Nintendo has always been protective of its IP rights, it was mostly limited to piracy of current titles and protecting their trademarks from commercial infringement. The greatly expanded scope of their recent legal campaign now threatens aspects of non-profit historical preservation and adjacent fan activities unrelated to Nintendo's present day commercial interests. This is new, different and dangerous. Previously, Nintendo's lawyers made at least some effort to distinguish between non-profit or fan hobby activities and piracy or commercial trademark protection. Nintendo changing to now aggressively pursue non-profit retro preservation has made me swear off buying anything from them again.
- makeitdouble 2y agoThe catch is, game preservation touches Nintendo's present day commercial interests, as they fully expanded their offering to "classic" games. Nintendo Online is already that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow a playable GameBoy toothbrush was released from Nintendo. For people looking for an entry point, Moon Channel has been covering this topic pretty in depth (author is a lawyer, but not in trademark per se I think) https://youtu.be/7rzWR9JP1WE?si=UOk5TI9iESdAONVB https://youtu.be/7rzWR9JP1WE?si=UOk5TI9iESdAONVB
- nemo44x 2y agoThey probably could have bought the market and its name and registered as a food company for far less than the legal fees.
- mlinhares 2y agoThe extortion is the point. They want to show everyone they can do this and they should cower in fear when they hear the name.
- Moru 2y agoIf they do that, they will paint a gigantic target on their back. Everyone will rename themselves to Super Mario as exit strategy for their startup.
- wbnns 2y agoPura vida
- jrootabega 2y ago> “Although Nintendo’s registration covers 45 categories, it doesn’t include the specific class for suppliers of basic food products.” If the market decides to start selling Nintendo or Mario products, could they get in trouble? Does this prevent the market from expanding to selling other types of products even if they never sell a Nintendo or video-game-related product? I can buy video game gift cards at my local supermarkets. (I'm aware my local law and definition of "supermarket" may not apply here.)
- dgfitz 2y agoI would encourage you Google something to the effect of: super Mario-branded food I would have posted a lmgtfy link for you, but I have faith you can manage it yourself.
- jrootabega 2y agoNotwithstanding the sassmouth and the fact it doesn't address any of my questions, that does make this more interesting. Nintendo has food trademarks, so their position against the supermarket is even more legitimate, IMO.
- whycome 2y agoAs a supermarket, they clearly sell more than just basic food products. They have cookware and more. https://maps.app.goo.gl/icLLDdZxXw861bVNA https://maps.app.goo.gl/icLLDdZxXw861bVNA
- jrootabega 2y agoInteresting. Wonder if we'll get a sequel to this case someday.
- marcosdumay 2y ago> If the market decides to start selling Nintendo or Mario products, could they get in trouble? Well, they'd better not make any games that use the market's name...
- atum47 2y agoI left a comment the other day about me loathing Nintendo nowadays and got downvoted. Well this is the kind of BS they pull that makes me hate them. Suing people, getting fair use material removed from YouTube, fighting emulators and people who created them, charging ridiculous prices for old games... I'm pretty sure they are the bad guy.
- VWWHFSfQ 2y agoCool platform and fun games though. I'll keep buying their stuff forever and I think a lot of other people will too.
- jader201 2y agoYeah, for some reason, I still root for them (not necessarily in silly cases like these, just when it comes to being a successful video game company). I have way too many fond memories dating back to NES, plus they still continue to make great games. It’s hard for me to be mad at them.
- Dban1 2y agono they r the good guy /s
- lupusreal 2y agoThey're one of those lifestyle brands, like Disney, which people feel personally connected to and personally attacked if you attack it.
- throwjit 2y ago[flagged]
- dboreham 2y agoHad breakfast in a Costa Rican supermarket once. Best breakfast ever. Unrelated,obviously.
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoPreviously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42868220
- jader201 2y agoPrevious comment on the previous conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42912798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42912798
- gamescr 2y agoRelated, a compiled list of games made in Costa Rica: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedevcr/comments/3gwimk/la_gran_lista_de_video_juegos_costarricenses/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedevcr/comments/3gwimk/la_gran_l...
- tanewishly 2y agoQuite a few negative feelings towards Nintendo of America (NOA) in the comments. A lot of "evil Goliath" style comments. I think they probably did the right thing. IANAL, but I'm pretty sure NOA has to defend its registration. "But this is for a small supermarket" you might argue. And in this case, you'd be right. But how can NOA tell the difference between a genuinely different registration, or someone trying to hijack their brand and putting up a fake website in hopes of lulling them into not objecting? Answer: they could try all sorts of steps, including flying to Costa Rica to check the local situation. Of course, they could still be played, and an attacker could suddenly be legally allowed to use their trademark. Or they could use exactly this process, which is meant to ensure that the registration is only awarded if it is sufficiently distinct. Which is what they did. I won't hate something or someone for using procedures as intended.
- p3rls 2y agoNot a lawyer but does not enforcing your trademark or copyright automatically relinquish your rights to it? On an individual basis? I'm not sure that is correct, as in, they could have let him sit in a sort of strategic legal ambiguity and spent those resources going after more flagrant violators. But yeah, dragging a blue collar person through the legal system and you're basically threatening their entire livelihood and family. Good luck with those optics.
- hansvm 2y agoIt's not automatic. The purpose of a trademark is increasing trust and reducing fraud. E.g., when I buy lithium batteries I intend to store inside my home there's only so much I can do to audit the internals, so I rely on brand recognition to help purchase safer options. Other people and brands are welcome to sell lithium batteries, but masquerading as the brand I'm attempting to purchase from is damaging to that brand and to myself. When other people use your trademark (even legitimately, as the courts have deemed for TFA), it's possible for that brand you've built to slowly morph into something other than just a name for your business or product. Band-aids and kleenexes are some classic examples, and the phrase "super mario" referring to more and more non-Nintendo things over time could do the trick too. As something of a side tangent, this is philosophically related to the "heap" problem -- if you place one grain of sand at a time in a location, when does it transition from being an assortment of grains of sand into being a heap of sand? Which grain makes that transition? In much the same way, which trademark infringement dilutes the brand enough that when a court tries to go back to first principles they'll finally side with the infringer because the public doesn't actually recognize your brand name as referring to you in particular sufficiently often? The playbook they're exercising is keeping that philosophical collection of sand very small. There isn't any legal recourse for suing a thousand infringers once public perception has shifted. Growing your brand and reducing the flow of sand to a trickle are both allowed though, and the legal half of that is the latter. Note that the playbook says nothing about whether those are legitimate uses of your trademark. The thing you're fighting against is changing public perception, and you're trying to slow the change down as much as possible, using the courts as a cudgel.
- epistasis 2y agoI'm reminded of Caterpillar (tractors and some apparel, $50B revenue) trying to stop Cat & Cloud (coffee some apparel, <<$1M) from having a trademark. Despite their low revenue, it's a somewhat influential coffee shop due to their podcast and roasting, and also happens to be the closest cafe to me and my favorite. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/caterpillar-cat-cloud-coffee-trademark-182747935.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/caterpillar-cat-cloud-coffee-...
- 0xfeba 2y agoReminds me of Nissan dot com lawsuit: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Motors_v._Nissan_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Motors_v._Nissan_Comput...
- nadermx 2y agohttps://nissan.com/ https://nissan.com/
- jeroenhd 2y agoA copy on the wayback machine to give context as to why Nissan.com doesn't belong to the car company (despite their lawsuits): https://web.archive.org/web/20200403031920/https://www.nissan.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200403031920/https://www.nissa...
- lolinder 2y ago> This legal victory is a testament to the determination of a small Costa Rican entrepreneur who stood his ground against a global corporation, proving that even the smallest of players can triumph in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. Oh, it's you, ChatGPT! I thought I recognized your distinctly bland style.
- Tainnor 2y agoThere's a driving school called "Autoescuela Super Mario" on Lanzarote (Canary Islands). They're using a lot of Nintendo's branding (fonts, etc.). Somehow I can't imagine that Nintendo agreed to that though.
- stevekemp 2y agoI live in Helsinki and there's a bar called "Super Bario" which always amuses me as a clever name. (Yes it does provide videogames and beers combined.)
- Freak_NL 2y agoWould a plumber get in trouble if Mario, the owner, called it Super Mario?
- sverhagen 2y agoA nitpick, but should they really call it a clash of titans? Maybe rather David versus Goliath?
- BrandoElFollito 2y agoThis reminds me of the fight for nissan.com between a PC shop owner and Nissan the car company. I just had a look at the site and (at least for me) the name is not resolved anymore (used to ba a landing page with the whole story) Edit: it does now, but the original page is gone
- adolfoabegg 2y agoSimilar case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41550417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41550417 Paraguay Loves Mickey, the Cartoon Mouse. Disney Doesn't
- amelius 2y agoIt was cute for a decade; invent something new now, please, Nintendo.
- racl101 2y agoThey have no reason to change when they keep raking in millions of dollars. They'll probably pump out the same games on Switch 2 and make a killing and new games with new ideas will continue to struggle. Cause just like big franchise movies, people want safe and predictable just on shinier hardware.
- amelius 2y agoOh, it's not that I can't understand their point of view. Mario is part of our culture now, and I don't think we should let such things be under tight control of big corporations for more than a decade or so, in part also to give them some incentive to innovate.
- jihadjihad 2y agoIt reminds me of that Mike Rowe kid that Microsoft threatened with legal action, because he had a domain for his web design business called MikeRoweSoft.com [0]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._MikeRoweSoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._MikeRoweSoft
- IncreasePosts 2y agoLet's not forget the goat: nissan.com, owned by Uzi Nissan(RIP), who refused to let the car company steal his domain.
- chiph 2y agoI have mentioned this before - Uzi was my ISP when I lived in Raleigh and had ISDN service. Cool guy. Still won't buy a Nissan (automobile).