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Dead on arrival, as the author concludes. Why is it making the frontpage? Looking forward to BEV versions.
by rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
Dead on arrival, as the author concludes. Why is it making the frontpage?
Looking forward to BEV versions.
- zppln 2y agoWould it be possible to achieve the same 8 hours of operation between charges?
- Retric 2y agoYes. Hydrogen has even worse issues with total energy storage in these kinds of appliances than batteries.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoBut one can bring hydrogen with an electric truck…
- Retric 2y agoHydrogen work vehicles require hydrogen storage and delivery. PEV work vehicles can also use hydrogen powered generators on site but they can also use anything from an on-site solar to a standard grid connection. As long as 98% of our hydrogen is coming from fossil fuels it’s only a net negative here.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoWhatever, good luck hauling electricity on a truck. We’re talking in the context of „you’re building a new highway, good luck getting enough electricity to charge those machines in that place”. What, you gonna haul your solar farm as the construction moves on for dozens of miles?
- Loudergood 2y agoIs it time to bring up swappable batteries again? You could truck in a trailer just like diesel.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agodo that
- Retric 2y agoWhy exactly would you want to haul electricity using a truck a rather than wires exactly? PEV’s are often more convenient and cheaper to use on a work site than diesel and are actually being adopted for that reason, it’s hydrogen that’s lacking distribution infrastructure.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago> and are actually being adopted Care to share some examples?
- Retric 2y agoLook at the caterpillar line of EV vehicles they are becoming quite popular. Ex: 798 AC a 372 metric ton payload truck https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/15970073.html https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway... At the other end mini EV excavators are also becoming quite popular ex: Volvo ECR25, Bobcat E19e, etc
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoAre you seriously showing me a mining truck and some micro machines you can use to dig a trench in your garden as an example of EV machines being „adopted”? Do you even know what makes those mining trucks functional for this use case? The deeper the mine, the more effective they are!
- themaninthedark 2y agoTry 10 to 12 hours as most construction jobs are waiting on weather and run overtime when they can. Second, where is the charge point when you are building a new highway? Roads are usually the first to go in, so if you have to spend an hour driving to a charge point, that's an hour of productive lost
- dylan604 2y agoSimple, you run a diesel powered generator! /s If it's out in the boonies, yeah, power usually follows the roads. If it's existing infrastructure being upgraded, just tap in to what is already there
- tfourb 2y agoYou may laugh, but running an optimized diesel generator to charge battery-powered heavy vehicles can be much more energy efficient than running the vehicles directly on diesel engines. Check out Edison Motors, who are in the process of developing a mass-market diesel-electric hybrid truck: https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors
- themaninthedark 2y agoApropos YouTube video was served to me: https://youtube.com/shorts/BvC9oLeqOfY?si=Fj_Yxeq636IGBIhC https://youtube.com/shorts/BvC9oLeqOfY?si=Fj_Yxeq636IGBIhC I like electric vehicles, they make sense. I think most construction workers would like electric equipment as well, not as loud, less fumes, less heat. Overall better but it has to make sense. Large mine trucks are either electric or hybrid. They recharge as they go into the pit.
- dylan604 2y agoWell, the guy in the YT video is clearly not logical. One diesel genny feeding all of those trucks vs all of those trucks being ICE powered. Some people just can't connect the dots. Modern train engines are just diesel powered generators pushing electric motors. That's how they can claim 100mpg. They could do similar to the construction equipment, and still improve vs just powered by diesel engines directly.
- crote 2y agoEndurance is a relatively simple problem to solve: just add more batteries. It's already a 14-ton vehicle, adding another ton or two of batteries probably won't be a dealbreaker. Worst-case scenario you put them in a trailer for long-endurance scenarios - they often already need one to bring a variety of buckets to the work site. There's a more interesting question, in my opinion: what happens when it inevitably runs out? Diesel is of course absolutely trivial. It can be refueled from any petrol station, you can bring your own barrel with a small pump, or even use a jerrycan. Easy to use both in urban areas and out in the boonies. Battery is a bit trickier. Worksite electric hookups and superchargers are viable urban options, and in remote areas you could use some kind of generator. Hydrogen, on the other hand, is a bit of a nightmare. Demand for hydrogen is unlikely to be high enough to warrant a very dense network of fueling stations, so even in urban areas it's going to take a significant amount of time to refuel. And in rural areas you're screwed: a fueling station could be hundreds of miles / kilometers away, and you're not exactly going to fill up a jerrycan with hydrogen either! There's no way you are refueling it on-site, having a regular worker messing around with hundreds or thousands of liters of hydrogen at 600x atmospheric pressure or cryogenic temperatures is just waiting for an accident to happen.
- b112 2y agoThe author concluding this, doesn't make it so. And his conclusions are linking to another article, claiming current h2 cost and production means the future will be the same. Which is the same as claiming we'd never have solar now, because solar was expensive years ago. The article also says South Korea is full bore on h2, so this will have a market, and thrive there. BEV doesn't have the capacity to do this. These units cannot be charged for 1hr 4 times a day. H2 is an instant recharge.
- eptcyka 2y agoH2 is not instant, it is a pressurised gas. Recharging h2 vehichles is as fast as the pressure difference between the intermediate tank and the vehichle tank.
- b112 2y agoNitpicking. Nothing is truly instant. Gasoline isn't truely instant either, yet people refer to it as so. The many different makes ans models of H2 cars recharge instantly by this metric, and so will this.
- chroma 2y agoIn practice, hydrogen cars take significantly longer than gas cars to fill, and the filling station can’t have a high duty cycle because the nozzle will freeze to the car. (Ideal gas law means the hydrogen cools as it goes from high pressure to low pressure.) Synthesizing fuels from CO2, water, and electricity seems like a better solution. It works with existing infrastructure and doesn’t have the storage or safety issues of hydrogen.
- axus 2y agoI couldn't find that conclusion. It seemed like a positive piece with discussion but not much critical analysis.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y agoThe article says: >The thing is, it’s highly unlikely that hydrogen will ever become a mainstream alternative to battery power – at least when it comes to on-road transportation This points to https://electrek.co/2024/04/13/man-to-build-200-hydrogen-trucks-to-prove-that-hydrogen-doesnt-work/ https://electrek.co/2024/04/13/man-to-build-200-hydrogen-tru..., which quote MAN's CEO saying >it's impossible for hydrogen to effectively compete with battery electric trucks. A positive piece indeed.