10 ms·

Our phones are killing our ability to feel sexy (2024)

237 points by thm 2y ago

grajaganDev 2y ago
"Phones used to be sexy: A call from an unknown number. A little black book. Your heart pounding as you checked your answering machine. Calling someone from a payphone. Hearing someone say, “It’s for you.” This was romance."
- perching_aix 2y ago
  Nothing quite as romantic as a 2 AM phreak after a long day's work apparently.
deadbabe 2y ago
[flagged]
- Etheryte 2y ago
  This isn't even remotely what the article is about, how did you arrive at such a misleading tldr? The article talks about diluting the human experience and problems with instant gratification.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    People just paint their existing prejudices over the article, often without even reading it.
  - deadbabe 2y ago
    Instant gratification is a key part of what turns someone into a nerd. You need a repeated exposure to something on demand to become a nerd for it.
    - Etheryte 2y ago
      I don't think this theory holds any water. You can be a fossil nerd without ever finding any interesting fossils yourself, there is no instant gratification and no on demand availability. There are countless other counterexamples.
      - deadbabe 2y ago
        You can still obsessively look up content for fossils and think or read about them all the time.
        Etheryte 2y ago
        Historically this wasn't the case and we had nerds all the same.
- loloquwowndueo 2y ago
  In an era when everyone’s a slave to the computer in their pocket, the real luxury is not having a computer in your pocket!
- malfist 2y ago
  Johnny McGovern would disagree https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDN9gMaW-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDN9gMaW-8
- looofooo0 2y ago
  + Boomer are hotter then millenials: https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.49555 https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.49555
- hulitu 2y ago
  > Using computers tends to make you a nerd. A phone is a computer in the same way your fridge or washing machine is a computer.
  - nyeah 2y ago
    Can you play games on your washing machine? Maybe I need to upgrade.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/13/21514030/microsoft-xcloud-samsung-smart-fridge-doom-enternal-xbox-games-android https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/13/21514030/microsoft-xclou...
      - nyeah 2y ago
        Yeah! I almost typed 'fridge' but thought better of it.
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > Can you play games on your washing machine? No, but it can spy on you, just like your Windows computer. /s
- the_af 2y ago
  This isn't what the article states.
- nemomarx 2y ago
  are people not into nerdy women now?
memhole 2y ago
I'm just waiting for missed connections to make a comeback. Reading some of those was a joy. And you couldn't help wonder, maybe it's me...
- kylecazar 2y ago
  I've wondered why an app dedicated specifically for this purpose hasn't actually taken off. It seems there have been attempts, but they all just fade away. I know more than a few people who used to check Craigslist everyday to read the stories.
- grajaganDev 2y ago
  They used to have a Missed Connections section of the classified ads in newspapers. It was fun to read them.
  - lambertsimnel 2y ago
    The New Statesman ran a story about fake submissions to Metro's Rush Hour Crush section: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/12/why-i-spent-three-years-sending-fake-rush-hour-crush-lonely-hearts-bulletins https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/12/why-i-spent-th...
velcrovan 2y ago
People diagnosing issues as related to tech developments when they are actually rooted in lack of autonomy and leisure time, exhibit 4,861
- cm2012 2y ago
  Humanity has more leisure time now than any time in history, possible excepting hunter-gatherer times.
  - velcrovan 2y ago
    Like looking at "average income" in the US, "humanity leisure time" handwaves extreme inequality.
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
> No one feels connected, present, alive, embodied, or sexy when they’re on their phone all day. I feel like the blame is misplaced. People are on their phones all day because of social media. The phone is just a convenient access point. I suspect without socials, the phone would be considered just a really handy tool [0] rather than the growing consensus that it's some kind of social menace. [0] that some nerds go too far with, like the computer
- mchaver 2y ago
  My approach is to block the majority of notifications and have no social media apps. Now it is a phone with some handy features like maps, music and a web browser.
- nyczomg 2y ago
  Social media existed before the iPhone/android. I remember needing to be at home on my computer to check myspace, xanga, and even thefacebook. Not sure how I feel about this article (it's interesting at least) but the existence of phones/apps does coincide with a lot of changes to our relationship with social media and a lot of changes to social media itself. Perhaps without smartphones in everyone's pocket we would use social media much differently and that industry would have grown differently....
  - VyseofArcadia 2y ago
    You did have to be more deliberate about it though. Checking socials and posting to socials required physically going to your computer, sitting down, and doing it. It wasn't something you could just to absent-mindedly with the convenience of just putting your hand in your pocket.
    - pas 2y ago
      And we sat at home and waited for mIRC, ICQ, or MSN Messenger to chirp, of course. What really changed is that good old Moore's law delivered systems where personalized feeds are not just possible, but they are the norm. And with a bit of tweaking, add infinite scrolling, spice up the recommender system to inject a bit of noise/variance, and ... voila! you are in a nice Skinner box.
amelius 2y ago
I don't know about phones, but an Apple Watch looks like a very un-sexy car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla Nothing compared to a Rolex, for instance.
- diggan 2y ago
  I feel the opposite, for some reason. Rolexes kind of looks disgusting to me, as I'll automatically jump to believing the person is superficial, cares too much about impression, and likes to waste money on such things. While almost the same goes for Apple Watch wearers, at least I could justify them wearing it because it actually has some functionality people can find useful, compared to a arm-watch like a Rolex which basically just carries duplicate functionality today, and is mostly used as a status symbol. Best is when someone wears nothing :)
  - yifanl 2y ago
    I think someone being opinionated about their fashion sense is a much more powerful message than at most choosing which colour of plastic (and often we can't even do that!). edit: and certainly, there are people who think the apple watch's sleekness is the height of aesthetic, but you'll never be able to tell that from glancing at them.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > I think someone being opinionated about their fashion sense is a much more powerful message than at most choosing which colour of plastic (and often we can't even do that!). Agree, much more powerful message. I'm not sure we agree on if that message is net positive or negative though :)
      - yifanl 2y ago
        Being confident enough to let people think you aren't fashionable is a statement on its own :P
      - 2y ago
r33b33 2y ago
No, you don't feel sexy, because you aren't sexy.
- lelandfe 2y ago
  Me, looking in mirror: "...It's the phone, right? It's the phone."
hulitu 2y ago
> Your Phone is why you don't feel sexy Talking about phones, having pictures with humans. But i agree. 20 years ago phones had a design. Now they are all coloured monolyths.
- iamacyborg 2y ago
  > Talking about phones, having pictures with humans. Having pictures where you’re not pretending to have been caught in some candid moment
xattt 2y ago
> “Peace.” Windows XP default wallpaper, 2001 This is rewriting history.
danabrams 2y ago
I’m old enough to remember not having an iPhone and not feeling sexy.
baobun 2y ago
Thanks for sharing, this resonates. But man, > That said, cosmetics and aesthetic trends on TikTok are harmless fun and games compared to what’s going on in the darkest corners of the internet. All over the world, an entire generation of young men, often referred to as “NEETs,” are robbing themselves of agency, drive, and romantic relationships through their addiction to video games and pornography. 1. "Darkest corners of the internet" are playing video games and surfing porn? 2. Just the men and all of them, huh? OP has no idea. Which OTOH solidifies their point about disconnectedness and being in distant bubbles.
jappgar 2y ago
Always replace pronouns like "You" and "Your" in headlines with "I" and "my". Saves a lot of time.
- diggan 2y ago
  Alternatively, remember that personal articles with one author is the perspective from the author, and not necessarily a "world truth". Same goes for comments on HN :) Saves even more time, no need to fumble around replacing words and whatnot.
- CooCooCaCha 2y ago
  Do people not do this? I’ve always felt it’s more important to understand the essence of what is being said, rather than hyperfocus on specific wording (unless it’s particularly important). I’ve never read “you” and thought they were imposing anything on me specifically.
- rdlw 2y ago
  It's not a headline, it's the title of an essay. What do you mean by 'saves time'? When you read a novel, do you replace the character names with "a figment of my, the author's, imagination"? It's not a fucking diary entry claiming to be reporting on an objective fact of the world, it's someone trying to communicate something about the world. Really, all you can think when you read a title like this is "well, that's certainly not true for me, I don't have to read this"?
hnthrow90348765 2y ago
The time pressures of every day life, which has gotten more complicated, are probably why we gravitate towards instant gratification more often. You don't have the time or energy to go to the library for books on a work day, especially with a commute. Same with any other activity. Working hard to finish your work ahead of time results in more work. Innovation's reward is not more free time, it's more work of a different kind. Blaming phones is a distraction. If it weren't phones, we'd still be couch potatoes lazily scrolling through channels to find something to watch. The core issue is we only have time/energy these days for our job's work and the lazy resting which seeks instant gratification. Next time someone's unemployed, try doing nothing but social media for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on a couch and see you'll eventually get bored.
- goatherders 2y ago
  "Next time someone's unemployed, try doing nothing but social media for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on a couch and see you'll eventually get bored." I think this can be true while also further enforcing the point. I was a child in the 80's and would ride my bike all over town just doing stuff. Sometimes alone, sometimes with friends. Yes, I know that sounds like older guy nostalgia. But the idea that a full work day is the only reason that adults aren't "bored" seems absurd to me. The world is full of low-cost wonder. We have allowed ourselves to be captured by low agency tasks like watching TV and scrolling through phones.
  - hx8 2y ago
    The classic consumption vs creative use of computation. I think people underestimate how much consumption there was in the past. For example, TV viewership peaked in 2009[0] before iPhones were widespread. Average viewership in America was almost 9 hours a day. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-did-tv-watching-peak/561464/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-...
    - mrweasel 2y ago
      > I think people underestimate how much consumption there was in the past Sure, but as a child I was limited to initial one TV station, later two. They started broadcasting at 16 - 17 and stopped around midnight. The subtract dinner time, programming after bed time and the stuff I had no interest in watching, That didn't leave many hours for TV. I don't think it's the hours that's the point, because is it really better to read a book, a magazine or the newspaper? It really depends on the content you consume and the quality of the content has gone rapidly downhill since the invention of reality TV.
dcdevito 2y ago
I started just having my cellular Apple Watch on me 6 years ago while leaving my phone at home. When everyone around me thought I was crazy I knew I was on to something. I’m doubling down on this philosophy and keeping my phone in my drawer and couldn’t be happier.
Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
I use a dumb phone , It had some issues with formatting of sd card , but my non technical cousin actually solved it (I had gone to his house for some other reason) I am so so much thankful of him. It also humbled me , since just because I am from technical aspect in the linux / computer doesn't mean I know everything in android / other aspect. I just had to format sd card (but technically it can lead to losing data and the problem was that I didn't had 32 gb card , now I am not sure that my phone supports 64 gb card , because I tried to put it and it didn't work but maybe I didn't format it properly) Still , that small action has lead to my phone from just being dumb to now playing audio , capturing photos and capturing videos. It has become great! I feel the power of community , a sense of pure joy. And the phone's definitely sexy. https://www.flipkart.com/kechaoda-k33/p/itmfgptkyrquqg9a https://www.flipkart.com/kechaoda-k33/p/itmfgptkyrquqg9a People love my phone , though the audio control is finnicky , it actually played music in class today once lol! , I had to lie to sir that it was my ringtone and someone called me , but crazy .
scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago
The bit that really sticks for me here is the bit about the element of risk. Takes a moment to get to that part, but this is my takeaway: feeling risk in meat space interactions stimulates our imagination about uncertain outcomes. Our devices have allowed us to back out of this feeling and into a predictable reality. I can confirm this: a recent improv comedy class, which I often dread actually going to, is 15 humans with no phones compressed into an actual room. That feeling of people flirting but also having fun is palpable.
nmg 2y ago
I'm surprised by the negative comments here so far that sound more indignant or "called out" than anything else. The article's argument is not only thoughtfully made and unusually well-written, in my opinion it's correct. There's nothing sexy about essentially staring at something in your hand for an hour or more every day. Smartphones provide a level of private immersion in silent, "socially-flavored" dopamine consumption that's antithetical to robust, vibrant socialization. Which is decidedly not sexy. taps add comment
- grajaganDev 2y ago
  >sound more indignant or "called out" than anything else. Yes - some people are very defensive regarding their phones. This underscores the point of the article.
  - tokai 2y ago
    Its just a bad blog post full of inaccuracies, falsehoods, and trivial takes. Your shallow dismissal of the critiques just underscores the hollowness of the articles content.
    - grajaganDev 2y ago
      Your comment underscores the point of my comment.
- leidenfrost 2y ago
  IMHO it's because in the phone world only a handful of people look good naturally. Another handful learns to compensate by using really complex lighting setups (akin to a real photographic studio). And the rest of us are left behind. We can even look "approachable enough" for some people by showing your way to approach the world, how we talk, how we move. But all of that is way harder to capture on a static photo. I personally look terrible in front cameras, and I have a hard time creating any kind of profile in a dating app.
  - baobun 2y ago
goatherders 2y ago
This post is incredible and true and it makes me sad that most everyone I know to share it with will not appreciate it.
- grajaganDev 2y ago
  Agreed - it is worth a close read. "On a lighter note, aren’t we all so sick of looking stuff up? You know what, maybe I go to a restaurant and it’s bad. Maybe I don’t know what’s good on the menu before I get there. Maybe I throw caution to the wind and put something in the dishwasher without googling if it’s dishwasher safe. Maybe I get a flip phone and get comfortable saying, “I don't know.” While you’re looking down at Google Maps, the love of your life is walking past you on the street. To feel sexy, we need risk and spontaneity. Our phones kill both."
smartmic 2y ago
We have lost the direct connection to nature, to love being an aspect of nature. Everything is channeled through our phones, leaving our embodiment mostly as empty shells without purpose. This could also be the description of zombies or cyborgs. I feel sorry for the young generation that is deprived of so many real, physical impressions - or rather, I hope that they will break out of their misery and get back what they - no, everyone - needs.
lmm 2y ago
Nah. It's well-written but I disagree with pretty much all of it. Having a powerful tool to hand has made me more confident, happier, healthier, and yes, sexier. My relationships are better than ever (well, they took a hit when I moved internationally - but that would've been much worse without a phone). I don't want to go back to having to go downtown to look up a fact at the library, or eating at terrible restaurants, or having to endure hours of tedium and pretend to like it because there was no alternative.
- rubslopes 2y ago
  As an introvert, I can’t imagine how awful it would be if I were still receiving focus-breaking phone calls all day like in the ’90s.
- yamazakiwi 2y ago
  Yeah I think a lot of people are just old in this thread and are nodding along because that's how it used to be. They're talking for everyone as if they are the arbiters of what is sexy for everyone when it's clearly taking popular viewpoints from a specific time, place, and type of person. All of their examples of Phones used to be sexy are stupid. These people are just nostalgic. The fact that they mention NEETs using Pornography and Video Games as supplements for relationship and achievement is a signal. Some people might do that but do you think most of these people would have done other decidedly sexy things had these things not existed? What is your argument? Even if it was true should we then force these men, who don't get attention from women, to do nothing but chase women and fail because it's "romantic", the world does not revolve around you. This woman sounds like those people who denigrate video games and pornography then watch 30 hours of trashy reality television a week and don't see the irony of their own behavior. We get it, your boyfriend won't pay attention to you because your relationship was poor in the first place and now you have an issue with others enjoying themselves. Also, nothing is stopping you from being spontaneous, nothing is forcing you to look up the menu before you go to a restaurant. That is your active decision that you're crying about as if it's what everyone is forced to do. I have no issue being spontaneous and actively choose to not look stuff up all the time. People like this are the same type of people to try and police others behavior but never discover their own flaws or ignore double standards because it benefits them, and yet decry others are living terribly.
bot347851834 2y ago
I think this blog post covers a lot of ground while not really diving deep into any of the points it tries to make. I just want to highlight a couple of them because they are particularly important to me. The concept of "you can desire only what you don't have" coupled with "you borrow your desires". Every thought in our head comes from a previous input, a lot of the same kind of inputs will spark a lot of the same thoughts and naturally they will spawn desires. I was on a work trip last year with two of my colleagues. They are into music (I'm not) and naturally a lot of the conversations were around singing and producing. I left that trip feeling an intense desire of trying out mixing/DJing for the first time in my life. I definitely attribute that to talking intensely about music for a few days for the most part. The other one is: there's value in being wrong and in experiencing negative things. I'm not going out seeking traumatic experiences or anything but I yearn for new experiences for a variety of reasons. Even smaller ones such as a new restaurant to try out sometimes can suck, can be a waste of time/money but as long as the negatives aren't that impactful I think that the small gems you find a long the way paired with the funny stories you get about the bad ones are very much worth the potential negative experiences. I often talk to people that "feel stuck" or on "autopilot" and I do think that always doing the same things over and over has diminishing returns on happiness and joy. Trying out new things I'd say is generally a good idea (common sense applies, as always).
dmje 2y ago
This is a tremendous piece. It rings so very true. I was 18 in 1990. I'm undoutebdly rose-tinting it but it was indeed edgy and weird and loaded and cool and unknown and just basically fucking brilliant. I look at my teen / 20's kids now and although they're brilliant and doing rad things and out there in the world being great - they're also slightly reserved, spoilt for choice, their generation less able to take hard knocks or deal with unknowns. It's kinda sad I think. Here's hoping we'll find ways to get back to more of what's actually real and important and well, sexy...!
- causal 2y ago
  The emphasis on embodiment was particularly interesting I think - at least with 90s tech you generally had to push physical buttons to get a response. There was something kinetic about tech use, it felt more like using LEGOs. Now user interfaces are an exhausting search exercise- I have to watch the screen to see where the buttons will appear with every interaction. It sucks. It makes me wonder what a physical-first API would look like. Perhaps that's just what CLIs evolved for: reliable, repeatable key-based interactions.
  - dmje 2y ago
    That's a really interesting point. And I guess related - physical media. Saving up for some vinyl or a cassette, going down the shop and adding it to your [physical] collection had a whole bunch of interactions along the way. Meeting your mates, browsing in the record shop, comparing notes, looking at girls, coming home, making a space on your shelf / floor for the new thing, putting it on... Nowadays: phone + spotify + search = done. No interaction, no flirting, no saving up, no physical-ness... Entirely (mostly) unrelated but I remember my mate buying a cassette copy of MBV's Loveless [0] from Camden Market. He took it home, listened, decided it was warped (if you know the record this will make sense...!), took it back, got a replacement, took it home... same warped sound. Eventually realised that was what was what it actually sounded like.. Man, we took the piss... :-) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loveless_(album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loveless_(album)
    - 2y ago
kurisufag 2y ago
reading someone express the idea that NEETs "are robbing /themselves/ of agency" is surprisingly upsetting. what is someone to do when they've grown up undersocialized, not in-tune enough to hang with the normals yet too prideful to debase themselves and consort with the common nerd? when they've no real skills, no hobbies, and (stemming from their failure to acquire any thus far) no drive to try and find some? the phone is to blame, sure, but only for creating a highly-social, fast-paced civilization where everyone else is waiting to leave their fellow people behind the moment they fall out of cultural lockstep. video games and pornography aren't taking these people's agency, they're providing a buffer. a way for shut-ins to pass the time so they don't up and kill themselves.
- vdjskshi 2y ago
  [dead]
- Earw0rm 2y ago
  NEETs != nerds. Not to say there isn't any overlap. But whereas people who are smart but somewhat lacking in social skills can thrive in nerd-dom, for people in the lowest quartile on both, paid employment is a race to the bottom. (Side note - HN tends to hypothesise that smartness and social skills are inversely correlated. While there's certainly a trend for people to develop one at the expense of the other, there's not much correlation in innate levels). Video games and porn play the same role here as weed has for at least the last couple of generations, and alcohol for centuries - they make an otherwise intolerable situation tolerable. If you've genuinely no escape from your circumstances, that's a good thing. If you might otherwise sort your life out and become a positive contributor, but they rob you of motivation to do so, not so much. I wouldn't like to say which side the numbers come down on overall. When does taking the edge off go too far - harder to measure this when you don't have the direct indicators of health damage or violent/abusive behaviour that alcohol brings. Modern society tends to assume that the right amount of motivation to have is "as much as possible", but that's not always true.
  - kurisufag 2y ago
    >NEETs != nerds. of course -- nerds have friends, there's a nerd table in the lunch room, there's always some space carved out for nerd-type activities, they'll probably eventually find a matching nerd-girlfriend (or boyfriend, i suppose. neetdom is an affliction that hits guys harder.), parents know how to deal with nerd children, etc. games and weed make the intolerable tolerable, as you say: some folks aren't well-configured for productive society, and if the option is between active torture trying to better themselves and "be normal", all-encompassing boredom, and soma-esque games 'n porn, i'm comfortable giving them the last category without constantly trying to tell them that they're doing it to themselves.
icameron 2y ago
“Peace.” Windows XP default wallpaper, 2001. I remember the green hills being the default wallpaper. Aren’t the clouds from the setup/PE background? (Very much like the article also)
ckozlowski 2y ago
Whenever I read an article like this that calls out things like "[driving us] deeper and deeper into our algorithmic hell holes.", I want to scream, and shake the author by the shoulders. "Snap out of it!" I yell. We don't have to make a Twitter account. No one held a gun to our heads to get on TikTok. Instagram? Pintrest? We don't need to join those. I'm not suggesting everyone swear off all social media. I enjoy my various Discords and message boards. I enjoy reading HN. But these patterns of doomscrolling various social apps flummoxes me. "TikTok is so bad." Well then, why did you make an account??? I realize there's some devils in the details here with regards to social pressures and the like. But I don't think they're by any means insurmountable. And if you're at the point that you're going to write tens of pages on this phenomena, then ride that momentum and delete the accounts when you're done. You'll feel better for it. All that aside, I did greatly enjoy the read for its retrospective on 90s and 2000s phone culture and that wonderful period of tech where we were just starting to get connected - tantalizingly so - but it was so limited and clunky that it preserved a sense of mystery. Or at least, that's how it felt at the time.
- deltarholamda 2y ago
  >I realize there's some devils in the details here with regards to social pressures and the like. I have a no-socials policy for my kids until they're practically adults. It's not an easy policy, and the oldest who had to deal with this policy first, was not thrilled about it. But it did bear fruit. My oldest is at university, and is not entangled in social media drama. Which is not entirely due to my policy--the oldest is also extremely independent--but I can't help but notice it played a part. It's not easy. Regardless of whether it's a good or bad thing, they definitely miss out on some degree of what makes up the public commons for kids today. Every now and then there's a story about a (usually) millennial who swears off social media and finds value in doing so. Sometimes they go back, sometimes they don't. But millennials marinated in this world for so long, it's really difficult for them to break out. (At least the Zoomers got "touch grass" pretty early on.) I feel for the millennials trying to navigate through all this. For GenX it would be like making it through the 80s without knowing the lyrics to Michael Jackson's 'Thriller'. You almost have to be an extreme outsider or a very independent person indeed to escape the milieu.
drweevil 2y ago
This is spot-on. In addition to the obvious risks (privacy, security), these devices represent a tremendous opportunity cost. Think of how that life-crushed-into-an-iPad commercial resonated in all the unintended ways.
- causal 2y ago
  Opportunity cost is a good term for the problem with addictive tech. Any one of the little distractions it offers up seems harmless, but in aggregate they represent a massive time opportunity cost, and indulging a few without succumbing to the aggregate has proven incredibly difficult for many.
xyst 2y ago
The “blame {some new technology} on the downfall of society” racket is getting old. People aren’t _feeling sexy_ because of the smart phone. People aren’t feeling sexy because they _lack the time_ to invest in these relationships. Technology and automation innovation of the 80s and 90s promised us shorter work weeks, stable pay, more security, better prosperity. Yet labor/workers have the opposite in this “modern” economy. A majority of people in the US are working multiple jobs just to support themselves and family. Healthcare is out of reach for many people due to the obscene price fixing scandal known as health insurance. Wages for labor has stagnated since the 80-90s. While corporate profits have reached all time highs and US govt gets bent for the rich by giving them tax cuts. Subsequently, public programs and safety net programs get cut. An increasing number of _middle class workers_ are getting left behind and we have collectively done nothing about it. I’ll re-iterate. The awful neoliberal economics this country’s policy is the reason why people don’t _feel sexy_ anymore. This is the true downfall of society and a once great country.
- skirmish 2y ago
  > The “blame {some new technology} on the downfall of society” racket is getting old. Same old, see Socrates circa 400 BC railing against reading and writing: "and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."
perching_aix 2y ago
> Remember this the next time you fall asleep to a TikTok playing on an endless loop: one day your heart will stop beating. Dogshit mental health advice of the week award goes to... What a disaster of a read. The rape of the language one utterance of 'sexy' at a time. At least it reset my compass on what I consider bizarre after all the LLM stuff. Really hope this was not written sober, otherwise I'm fresh out of hope again. I guess OP would find that very sexy somehow though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
binary132 2y ago
something seriously out of whack with this
MrMcCall 2y ago
I didn't like my first cellphone, loaned as part of working for Nokia >20ya. They are, however, excellent tools for communication and even looking something up on the web. Other than that, my fam has stories of entire families at our local park walking, each on their own separate phone. It is not sad or pitiable, for their choices are theirs to make, but the effects on their psyches and eyesight are not positive. As to being sexy, being able to make someone laugh and actually caring about their wellbeing such that you will actually do something to help them become happier -- those are the qualities that will attract a person to you. Everything else we do in life is mere drivel, and directing our life towards such vainglorious pursuits them will only attract other frivolous, unawake people. Fill your heart with love for all human beings and the Earth, herself, and others will want to be around you, unless they are dark-hearted fools, but you don't want to be around them, anyway.
jjmarr 2y ago
> Instantaneous access to everything obviously comes at a cost. The cost being that we all behave like demented Roman emperors, at once bored and deranged, summoning whatever we want at any time. > All over the world, an entire generation of young men, often referred to as “NEETs,” are robbing themselves of agency, drive, and romantic relationships through their addiction to video games and pornography. Video games allow a young man to experience a sort of pseudo-achievement, while pornography masquerades as love. Some of these men have seen more naked women than any king who has ever lived. > Many will mock their pain and their addiction, but it’s heartbreaking to think that they’ll never experience true risk, true reward, or true romance. This post acknowledges that NEETs are living better than ancient Roman emperors, but laments they're missing out on "risk, reward, and romance" that these ancient Romans had. What exactly is so great about risking death on the battlefield or risking food poisoning at a bad restaurant? Why would an average man in his early 20s want to take a risk by approaching women at one's job or in public? Especially when you go on Tinder/Hinge and realize just how worthless you actually are. The article argues that: > Thoroughly exhausting ourselves intellectually and physically through productive work brings fulfillment, and with fulfillment comes peace. But you can, as the article acknowledges, thoroughly exhaust yourself through video games and online vices. Achievement no longer requires risk. And the article is unable to quantify what value that risk brings beyond being inherently exciting. If this was true, why aren't more people taking risks? It should be more fun than sitting at home all day. "NEET" is an economic term that stands for "not in education, employment, or training", because unemployment doesn't include people that have left the labour force entirely. Self-description as a NEET is a proud admission that one does not contribute to the economy or work force; it's a valuation of the individual over the community. This article accepts that premise and argues in futility that NEETs don't really want the lifestyle they chose. I disagree, and I'd rather we make it an explicit value of our society to reject individual freedoms that cause broader social harms. If smartphone addiction is legitimately destroying society by acting as a sinkhole for human potential, we should apply legal restrictions or taxes on screen time. That would be more effective than telling someone who's doomscrolling how they're actually hurting themselves.
liontwist 2y ago
The pictured inserted in the article are attractive for the nostalgia and don’t support the phone argument.
varelse 2y ago
[dead]
poulpy123 2y ago
Joke on you I never felt sexy
deeg 2y ago
She makes some decent points but a lot of this feels like the age-old argument of "$SOMETHING_NEW was fun and exciting when I was young and now it's all turned to shit."
thunderbong 2y ago
> Today, everyone and everything is always available, and there’s nothing less sexy than that. There’s no chase. Our phones don’t allow us time to dwell, and they don’t allow us time to yearn. Why force yourself to daydream about the guy you’re seeing when you can easily look at dozens of photographs of him online? Why walk into a store in Soho and see what’s on offer when you can stay home and scroll the entire inventory from the comfort of your couch? Why go to the library to find books about a topic that interests you when you can look it up on Wikipedia in two minutes and move on with your day?
chasebank 2y ago
Tim Robinson has this sketch about the phone that, on the surface, is totally ridiculous—but if you take a step back, it’s actually kind of thought-provoking. His comedy isn’t for everyone, but when he nails something, he really nails it. [0] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4qi7MsXyP8E https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4qi7MsXyP8E
mplanchard 2y ago
While I agree with this article, I think the selection solely of vogue model shots and Paris Hilton’s waist from the early aughts is in poor taste. The beauty aesthetic of the time tended rather extremely towards anorexic, and the selection of images in this piece might as well say, “Remember when THIN was IN?”, which I think detracts from its overall message. It’s also a bit of a weird choice, because similar shots from today are often of equally beautiful, equally thin models and are just as sexy: that portion of media at least does not seem to have changed much. In addition, if making a more general point about standards of beauty, perhaps it would have been nice to include a photo of Brad Pitt or something? Is the implicit assumption here that only women can be sexy, or that only heterosexual men will be reading the article? Like, there are literally people I’d share this article with (e.g. my wife) if not for the really poor selection of photos.
_rpxpx 2y ago
OK, this is "sex in the city" bloggery, but it does contain some very good & important points which HN readers should attend to. Specifically to my mind: the importance of CHANCE and NOT-KNOWING to the value of experience, and happiness. To simplify: Romance necessitates CHANCE. A chance encounter, something improbable, strange, etc is the basis for the myth that sustains the romantic idea. Dating apps are inherently anti-romantic. Relatedly, many experiences are valuable ONLY because they are unpredictable. Adventure necessitates NOT KNOWING what is coming. Smartphones kill the spirit of adventure.
- rdlw 2y ago
  What's '"sex in the city" bloggery'? It just seems like a well-written persuasive essay to me.
  - _rpxpx 2y ago
    yes, maybe that was unfair. I thought it contained good points, I just don't like that style of writing. But I'm glad that people like that are thinking along these lines.
anal_reactor 2y ago
My traumatic childhood killed my ability to feel sexy. My adult realization that very few people are worth my time and it's extremely unlikely for me to find a happy relationship killed my libido. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
pointedAt 2y ago
100 % ... noticed this when trying to find a recent butt pick of Nicola Cavani on instagram, yesterday. I do that a few times a year to collect reference for my AI powered buttbook platform. company will be rebranded to oh-mega later on. girls taking selfies and staring at their phones is unreasonably unsexy.
carabiner 2y ago
Speak for yourself.
twobitshifter 2y ago
On the sexy front, my company has marketing materials from 10 years ago showing people at a construction site interacting with their phones. The idea is that it was sexy and cool to be connected and be using technology to communicate and interact with the project. But today? It just looks like someone is goofing off on social media when they should be working.
alabhyajindal 2y ago
Appreciate the article, but why do so many articles these days have to start with a history of the world? Do we really need to go through the years and recall the introduction of the iPhone? Do we all not know that already? I hate this trend so much. It's common in tech talks now. Recapping the entire history only to come to the main point, the title of the talk, towards the final 10 minutes. Come on.
ristos 2y ago
Idk, popular people and probably influencer types look cool with a phone. They look like a VIP, people are constantly texting them, it looks like they're constantly socializing, networking, etc. Same with social media, they have like 5 million friends and it looks like a lot's going on in their lives. That's probably the difference between how cool people use technology vs nerds or dorks. When I use my phone, it's either to look something up, study or learn something new, read the news, or talk to my mom. I would imagine I probably don't look cool using my phone. Joking aside, I think one thing that I really don't like about smartphones and texting entering our lives is that when you're out for food or coffee people get on their phones, and it feels antisocial, like you can't talk to them now without interrupting them from whatever they're doing on their phone. In the past, I remember, if people had nothing to say, they would just sit there and look off into the distance. It all felt way more social back then, when people got together they interacted more.

237 points by thm 2y ago

"Phones used to be sexy: A call from an unknown number. A little black book. Your heart pounding as you checked your answering machine. Calling someone from a payphone. Hearing someone say, “It’s for you.” This was romance."

perching_aix 2y ago
Nothing quite as romantic as a 2 AM phreak after a long day's work apparently.

deadbabe 2y ago

[flagged]

Etheryte 2y ago
This isn't even remotely what the article is about, how did you arrive at such a misleading tldr? The article talks about diluting the human experience and problems with instant gratification.
- pjc50 2y ago
  People just paint their existing prejudices over the article, often without even reading it.
- deadbabe 2y ago
  Instant gratification is a key part of what turns someone into a nerd. You need a repeated exposure to something on demand to become a nerd for it.
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    I don't think this theory holds any water. You can be a fossil nerd without ever finding any interesting fossils yourself, there is no instant gratification and no on demand availability. There are countless other counterexamples.
    - deadbabe 2y ago
      You can still obsessively look up content for fossils and think or read about them all the time.
      - Etheryte 2y ago
        Historically this wasn't the case and we had nerds all the same.
loloquwowndueo 2y ago
In an era when everyone’s a slave to the computer in their pocket, the real luxury is not having a computer in your pocket!
malfist 2y ago
Johnny McGovern would disagree https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDN9gMaW-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDN9gMaW-8
looofooo0 2y ago
+ Boomer are hotter then millenials: https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.49555 https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.49555
hulitu 2y ago
> Using computers tends to make you a nerd. A phone is a computer in the same way your fridge or washing machine is a computer.
- nyeah 2y ago
  Can you play games on your washing machine? Maybe I need to upgrade.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/13/21514030/microsoft-xcloud-samsung-smart-fridge-doom-enternal-xbox-games-android https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/13/21514030/microsoft-xclou...
    - nyeah 2y ago
      Yeah! I almost typed 'fridge' but thought better of it.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > Can you play games on your washing machine? No, but it can spy on you, just like your Windows computer. /s
the_af 2y ago
This isn't what the article states.
nemomarx 2y ago
are people not into nerdy women now?

memhole 2y ago

I'm just waiting for missed connections to make a comeback. Reading some of those was a joy. And you couldn't help wonder, maybe it's me...

kylecazar 2y ago
I've wondered why an app dedicated specifically for this purpose hasn't actually taken off. It seems there have been attempts, but they all just fade away. I know more than a few people who used to check Craigslist everyday to read the stories.
grajaganDev 2y ago
They used to have a Missed Connections section of the classified ads in newspapers. It was fun to read them.
- lambertsimnel 2y ago
  The New Statesman ran a story about fake submissions to Metro's Rush Hour Crush section: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/12/why-i-spent-three-years-sending-fake-rush-hour-crush-lonely-hearts-bulletins https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/12/why-i-spent-th...

velcrovan 2y ago

People diagnosing issues as related to tech developments when they are actually rooted in lack of autonomy and leisure time, exhibit 4,861

cm2012 2y ago
Humanity has more leisure time now than any time in history, possible excepting hunter-gatherer times.
- velcrovan 2y ago
  Like looking at "average income" in the US, "humanity leisure time" handwaves extreme inequality.

VyseofArcadia 2y ago

> No one feels connected, present, alive, embodied, or sexy when they’re on their phone all day. I feel like the blame is misplaced. People are on their phones all day because of social media. The phone is just a convenient access point. I suspect without socials, the phone would be considered just a really handy tool [0] rather than the growing consensus that it's some kind of social menace. [0] that some nerds go too far with, like the computer

mchaver 2y ago
My approach is to block the majority of notifications and have no social media apps. Now it is a phone with some handy features like maps, music and a web browser.
nyczomg 2y ago
Social media existed before the iPhone/android. I remember needing to be at home on my computer to check myspace, xanga, and even thefacebook. Not sure how I feel about this article (it's interesting at least) but the existence of phones/apps does coincide with a lot of changes to our relationship with social media and a lot of changes to social media itself. Perhaps without smartphones in everyone's pocket we would use social media much differently and that industry would have grown differently....
- VyseofArcadia 2y ago
  You did have to be more deliberate about it though. Checking socials and posting to socials required physically going to your computer, sitting down, and doing it. It wasn't something you could just to absent-mindedly with the convenience of just putting your hand in your pocket.
  - pas 2y ago
    And we sat at home and waited for mIRC, ICQ, or MSN Messenger to chirp, of course. What really changed is that good old Moore's law delivered systems where personalized feeds are not just possible, but they are the norm. And with a bit of tweaking, add infinite scrolling, spice up the recommender system to inject a bit of noise/variance, and ... voila! you are in a nice Skinner box.

amelius 2y ago

I don't know about phones, but an Apple Watch looks like a very un-sexy car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla Nothing compared to a Rolex, for instance.

diggan 2y ago
I feel the opposite, for some reason. Rolexes kind of looks disgusting to me, as I'll automatically jump to believing the person is superficial, cares too much about impression, and likes to waste money on such things. While almost the same goes for Apple Watch wearers, at least I could justify them wearing it because it actually has some functionality people can find useful, compared to a arm-watch like a Rolex which basically just carries duplicate functionality today, and is mostly used as a status symbol. Best is when someone wears nothing :)
- yifanl 2y ago
  I think someone being opinionated about their fashion sense is a much more powerful message than at most choosing which colour of plastic (and often we can't even do that!). edit: and certainly, there are people who think the apple watch's sleekness is the height of aesthetic, but you'll never be able to tell that from glancing at them.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > I think someone being opinionated about their fashion sense is a much more powerful message than at most choosing which colour of plastic (and often we can't even do that!). Agree, much more powerful message. I'm not sure we agree on if that message is net positive or negative though :)
    - yifanl 2y ago
      Being confident enough to let people think you aren't fashionable is a statement on its own :P
    - 2y ago

r33b33 2y ago

No, you don't feel sexy, because you aren't sexy.

lelandfe 2y ago
Me, looking in mirror: "...It's the phone, right? It's the phone."

hulitu 2y ago

> Your Phone is why you don't feel sexy Talking about phones, having pictures with humans. But i agree. 20 years ago phones had a design. Now they are all coloured monolyths.

iamacyborg 2y ago
> Talking about phones, having pictures with humans. Having pictures where you’re not pretending to have been caught in some candid moment

xattt 2y ago

> “Peace.” Windows XP default wallpaper, 2001 This is rewriting history.

danabrams 2y ago

I’m old enough to remember not having an iPhone and not feeling sexy.

baobun 2y ago

Thanks for sharing, this resonates. But man, > That said, cosmetics and aesthetic trends on TikTok are harmless fun and games compared to what’s going on in the darkest corners of the internet. All over the world, an entire generation of young men, often referred to as “NEETs,” are robbing themselves of agency, drive, and romantic relationships through their addiction to video games and pornography. 1. "Darkest corners of the internet" are playing video games and surfing porn? 2. Just the men and all of them, huh? OP has no idea. Which OTOH solidifies their point about disconnectedness and being in distant bubbles.

jappgar 2y ago

Always replace pronouns like "You" and "Your" in headlines with "I" and "my". Saves a lot of time.

diggan 2y ago
Alternatively, remember that personal articles with one author is the perspective from the author, and not necessarily a "world truth". Same goes for comments on HN :) Saves even more time, no need to fumble around replacing words and whatnot.
CooCooCaCha 2y ago
Do people not do this? I’ve always felt it’s more important to understand the essence of what is being said, rather than hyperfocus on specific wording (unless it’s particularly important). I’ve never read “you” and thought they were imposing anything on me specifically.
rdlw 2y ago
It's not a headline, it's the title of an essay. What do you mean by 'saves time'? When you read a novel, do you replace the character names with "a figment of my, the author's, imagination"? It's not a fucking diary entry claiming to be reporting on an objective fact of the world, it's someone trying to communicate something about the world. Really, all you can think when you read a title like this is "well, that's certainly not true for me, I don't have to read this"?

hnthrow90348765 2y ago

The time pressures of every day life, which has gotten more complicated, are probably why we gravitate towards instant gratification more often. You don't have the time or energy to go to the library for books on a work day, especially with a commute. Same with any other activity. Working hard to finish your work ahead of time results in more work. Innovation's reward is not more free time, it's more work of a different kind. Blaming phones is a distraction. If it weren't phones, we'd still be couch potatoes lazily scrolling through channels to find something to watch. The core issue is we only have time/energy these days for our job's work and the lazy resting which seeks instant gratification. Next time someone's unemployed, try doing nothing but social media for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on a couch and see you'll eventually get bored.

goatherders 2y ago
"Next time someone's unemployed, try doing nothing but social media for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on a couch and see you'll eventually get bored." I think this can be true while also further enforcing the point. I was a child in the 80's and would ride my bike all over town just doing stuff. Sometimes alone, sometimes with friends. Yes, I know that sounds like older guy nostalgia. But the idea that a full work day is the only reason that adults aren't "bored" seems absurd to me. The world is full of low-cost wonder. We have allowed ourselves to be captured by low agency tasks like watching TV and scrolling through phones.
- hx8 2y ago
  The classic consumption vs creative use of computation. I think people underestimate how much consumption there was in the past. For example, TV viewership peaked in 2009[0] before iPhones were widespread. Average viewership in America was almost 9 hours a day. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-did-tv-watching-peak/561464/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-...
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    > I think people underestimate how much consumption there was in the past Sure, but as a child I was limited to initial one TV station, later two. They started broadcasting at 16 - 17 and stopped around midnight. The subtract dinner time, programming after bed time and the stuff I had no interest in watching, That didn't leave many hours for TV. I don't think it's the hours that's the point, because is it really better to read a book, a magazine or the newspaper? It really depends on the content you consume and the quality of the content has gone rapidly downhill since the invention of reality TV.

dcdevito 2y ago

I started just having my cellular Apple Watch on me 6 years ago while leaving my phone at home. When everyone around me thought I was crazy I knew I was on to something. I’m doubling down on this philosophy and keeping my phone in my drawer and couldn’t be happier.

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago

I use a dumb phone , It had some issues with formatting of sd card , but my non technical cousin actually solved it (I had gone to his house for some other reason) I am so so much thankful of him. It also humbled me , since just because I am from technical aspect in the linux / computer doesn't mean I know everything in android / other aspect. I just had to format sd card (but technically it can lead to losing data and the problem was that I didn't had 32 gb card , now I am not sure that my phone supports 64 gb card , because I tried to put it and it didn't work but maybe I didn't format it properly) Still , that small action has lead to my phone from just being dumb to now playing audio , capturing photos and capturing videos. It has become great! I feel the power of community , a sense of pure joy. And the phone's definitely sexy. https://www.flipkart.com/kechaoda-k33/p/itmfgptkyrquqg9a https://www.flipkart.com/kechaoda-k33/p/itmfgptkyrquqg9a People love my phone , though the audio control is finnicky , it actually played music in class today once lol! , I had to lie to sir that it was my ringtone and someone called me , but crazy .

scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago

The bit that really sticks for me here is the bit about the element of risk. Takes a moment to get to that part, but this is my takeaway: feeling risk in meat space interactions stimulates our imagination about uncertain outcomes. Our devices have allowed us to back out of this feeling and into a predictable reality. I can confirm this: a recent improv comedy class, which I often dread actually going to, is 15 humans with no phones compressed into an actual room. That feeling of people flirting but also having fun is palpable.

nmg 2y ago

I'm surprised by the negative comments here so far that sound more indignant or "called out" than anything else. The article's argument is not only thoughtfully made and unusually well-written, in my opinion it's correct. There's nothing sexy about essentially staring at something in your hand for an hour or more every day. Smartphones provide a level of private immersion in silent, "socially-flavored" dopamine consumption that's antithetical to robust, vibrant socialization. Which is decidedly not sexy. taps add comment

grajaganDev 2y ago
>sound more indignant or "called out" than anything else. Yes - some people are very defensive regarding their phones. This underscores the point of the article.
- tokai 2y ago
  Its just a bad blog post full of inaccuracies, falsehoods, and trivial takes. Your shallow dismissal of the critiques just underscores the hollowness of the articles content.
  - grajaganDev 2y ago
    Your comment underscores the point of my comment.
leidenfrost 2y ago
IMHO it's because in the phone world only a handful of people look good naturally. Another handful learns to compensate by using really complex lighting setups (akin to a real photographic studio). And the rest of us are left behind. We can even look "approachable enough" for some people by showing your way to approach the world, how we talk, how we move. But all of that is way harder to capture on a static photo. I personally look terrible in front cameras, and I have a hard time creating any kind of profile in a dating app.
- baobun 2y ago

goatherders 2y ago

This post is incredible and true and it makes me sad that most everyone I know to share it with will not appreciate it.

grajaganDev 2y ago
Agreed - it is worth a close read. "On a lighter note, aren’t we all so sick of looking stuff up? You know what, maybe I go to a restaurant and it’s bad. Maybe I don’t know what’s good on the menu before I get there. Maybe I throw caution to the wind and put something in the dishwasher without googling if it’s dishwasher safe. Maybe I get a flip phone and get comfortable saying, “I don't know.” While you’re looking down at Google Maps, the love of your life is walking past you on the street. To feel sexy, we need risk and spontaneity. Our phones kill both."

smartmic 2y ago

We have lost the direct connection to nature, to love being an aspect of nature. Everything is channeled through our phones, leaving our embodiment mostly as empty shells without purpose. This could also be the description of zombies or cyborgs. I feel sorry for the young generation that is deprived of so many real, physical impressions - or rather, I hope that they will break out of their misery and get back what they - no, everyone - needs.

lmm 2y ago

Nah. It's well-written but I disagree with pretty much all of it. Having a powerful tool to hand has made me more confident, happier, healthier, and yes, sexier. My relationships are better than ever (well, they took a hit when I moved internationally - but that would've been much worse without a phone). I don't want to go back to having to go downtown to look up a fact at the library, or eating at terrible restaurants, or having to endure hours of tedium and pretend to like it because there was no alternative.

rubslopes 2y ago
As an introvert, I can’t imagine how awful it would be if I were still receiving focus-breaking phone calls all day like in the ’90s.
yamazakiwi 2y ago
Yeah I think a lot of people are just old in this thread and are nodding along because that's how it used to be. They're talking for everyone as if they are the arbiters of what is sexy for everyone when it's clearly taking popular viewpoints from a specific time, place, and type of person. All of their examples of Phones used to be sexy are stupid. These people are just nostalgic. The fact that they mention NEETs using Pornography and Video Games as supplements for relationship and achievement is a signal. Some people might do that but do you think most of these people would have done other decidedly sexy things had these things not existed? What is your argument? Even if it was true should we then force these men, who don't get attention from women, to do nothing but chase women and fail because it's "romantic", the world does not revolve around you. This woman sounds like those people who denigrate video games and pornography then watch 30 hours of trashy reality television a week and don't see the irony of their own behavior. We get it, your boyfriend won't pay attention to you because your relationship was poor in the first place and now you have an issue with others enjoying themselves. Also, nothing is stopping you from being spontaneous, nothing is forcing you to look up the menu before you go to a restaurant. That is your active decision that you're crying about as if it's what everyone is forced to do. I have no issue being spontaneous and actively choose to not look stuff up all the time. People like this are the same type of people to try and police others behavior but never discover their own flaws or ignore double standards because it benefits them, and yet decry others are living terribly.

bot347851834 2y ago

I think this blog post covers a lot of ground while not really diving deep into any of the points it tries to make. I just want to highlight a couple of them because they are particularly important to me. The concept of "you can desire only what you don't have" coupled with "you borrow your desires". Every thought in our head comes from a previous input, a lot of the same kind of inputs will spark a lot of the same thoughts and naturally they will spawn desires. I was on a work trip last year with two of my colleagues. They are into music (I'm not) and naturally a lot of the conversations were around singing and producing. I left that trip feeling an intense desire of trying out mixing/DJing for the first time in my life. I definitely attribute that to talking intensely about music for a few days for the most part. The other one is: there's value in being wrong and in experiencing negative things. I'm not going out seeking traumatic experiences or anything but I yearn for new experiences for a variety of reasons. Even smaller ones such as a new restaurant to try out sometimes can suck, can be a waste of time/money but as long as the negatives aren't that impactful I think that the small gems you find a long the way paired with the funny stories you get about the bad ones are very much worth the potential negative experiences. I often talk to people that "feel stuck" or on "autopilot" and I do think that always doing the same things over and over has diminishing returns on happiness and joy. Trying out new things I'd say is generally a good idea (common sense applies, as always).

dmje 2y ago

This is a tremendous piece. It rings so very true. I was 18 in 1990. I'm undoutebdly rose-tinting it but it was indeed edgy and weird and loaded and cool and unknown and just basically fucking brilliant. I look at my teen / 20's kids now and although they're brilliant and doing rad things and out there in the world being great - they're also slightly reserved, spoilt for choice, their generation less able to take hard knocks or deal with unknowns. It's kinda sad I think. Here's hoping we'll find ways to get back to more of what's actually real and important and well, sexy...!

causal 2y ago
The emphasis on embodiment was particularly interesting I think - at least with 90s tech you generally had to push physical buttons to get a response. There was something kinetic about tech use, it felt more like using LEGOs. Now user interfaces are an exhausting search exercise- I have to watch the screen to see where the buttons will appear with every interaction. It sucks. It makes me wonder what a physical-first API would look like. Perhaps that's just what CLIs evolved for: reliable, repeatable key-based interactions.
- dmje 2y ago
  That's a really interesting point. And I guess related - physical media. Saving up for some vinyl or a cassette, going down the shop and adding it to your [physical] collection had a whole bunch of interactions along the way. Meeting your mates, browsing in the record shop, comparing notes, looking at girls, coming home, making a space on your shelf / floor for the new thing, putting it on... Nowadays: phone + spotify + search = done. No interaction, no flirting, no saving up, no physical-ness... Entirely (mostly) unrelated but I remember my mate buying a cassette copy of MBV's Loveless [0] from Camden Market. He took it home, listened, decided it was warped (if you know the record this will make sense...!), took it back, got a replacement, took it home... same warped sound. Eventually realised that was what was what it actually sounded like.. Man, we took the piss... :-) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loveless_(album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loveless_(album)
  - 2y ago

kurisufag 2y ago

reading someone express the idea that NEETs "are robbing /themselves/ of agency" is surprisingly upsetting. what is someone to do when they've grown up undersocialized, not in-tune enough to hang with the normals yet too prideful to debase themselves and consort with the common nerd? when they've no real skills, no hobbies, and (stemming from their failure to acquire any thus far) no drive to try and find some? the phone is to blame, sure, but only for creating a highly-social, fast-paced civilization where everyone else is waiting to leave their fellow people behind the moment they fall out of cultural lockstep. video games and pornography aren't taking these people's agency, they're providing a buffer. a way for shut-ins to pass the time so they don't up and kill themselves.

vdjskshi 2y ago
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Earw0rm 2y ago
NEETs != nerds. Not to say there isn't any overlap. But whereas people who are smart but somewhat lacking in social skills can thrive in nerd-dom, for people in the lowest quartile on both, paid employment is a race to the bottom. (Side note - HN tends to hypothesise that smartness and social skills are inversely correlated. While there's certainly a trend for people to develop one at the expense of the other, there's not much correlation in innate levels). Video games and porn play the same role here as weed has for at least the last couple of generations, and alcohol for centuries - they make an otherwise intolerable situation tolerable. If you've genuinely no escape from your circumstances, that's a good thing. If you might otherwise sort your life out and become a positive contributor, but they rob you of motivation to do so, not so much. I wouldn't like to say which side the numbers come down on overall. When does taking the edge off go too far - harder to measure this when you don't have the direct indicators of health damage or violent/abusive behaviour that alcohol brings. Modern society tends to assume that the right amount of motivation to have is "as much as possible", but that's not always true.
- kurisufag 2y ago
  >NEETs != nerds. of course -- nerds have friends, there's a nerd table in the lunch room, there's always some space carved out for nerd-type activities, they'll probably eventually find a matching nerd-girlfriend (or boyfriend, i suppose. neetdom is an affliction that hits guys harder.), parents know how to deal with nerd children, etc. games and weed make the intolerable tolerable, as you say: some folks aren't well-configured for productive society, and if the option is between active torture trying to better themselves and "be normal", all-encompassing boredom, and soma-esque games 'n porn, i'm comfortable giving them the last category without constantly trying to tell them that they're doing it to themselves.

icameron 2y ago

“Peace.” Windows XP default wallpaper, 2001. I remember the green hills being the default wallpaper. Aren’t the clouds from the setup/PE background? (Very much like the article also)

ckozlowski 2y ago

Whenever I read an article like this that calls out things like "[driving us] deeper and deeper into our algorithmic hell holes.", I want to scream, and shake the author by the shoulders. "Snap out of it!" I yell. We don't have to make a Twitter account. No one held a gun to our heads to get on TikTok. Instagram? Pintrest? We don't need to join those. I'm not suggesting everyone swear off all social media. I enjoy my various Discords and message boards. I enjoy reading HN. But these patterns of doomscrolling various social apps flummoxes me. "TikTok is so bad." Well then, why did you make an account??? I realize there's some devils in the details here with regards to social pressures and the like. But I don't think they're by any means insurmountable. And if you're at the point that you're going to write tens of pages on this phenomena, then ride that momentum and delete the accounts when you're done. You'll feel better for it. All that aside, I did greatly enjoy the read for its retrospective on 90s and 2000s phone culture and that wonderful period of tech where we were just starting to get connected - tantalizingly so - but it was so limited and clunky that it preserved a sense of mystery. Or at least, that's how it felt at the time.

deltarholamda 2y ago
>I realize there's some devils in the details here with regards to social pressures and the like. I have a no-socials policy for my kids until they're practically adults. It's not an easy policy, and the oldest who had to deal with this policy first, was not thrilled about it. But it did bear fruit. My oldest is at university, and is not entangled in social media drama. Which is not entirely due to my policy--the oldest is also extremely independent--but I can't help but notice it played a part. It's not easy. Regardless of whether it's a good or bad thing, they definitely miss out on some degree of what makes up the public commons for kids today. Every now and then there's a story about a (usually) millennial who swears off social media and finds value in doing so. Sometimes they go back, sometimes they don't. But millennials marinated in this world for so long, it's really difficult for them to break out. (At least the Zoomers got "touch grass" pretty early on.) I feel for the millennials trying to navigate through all this. For GenX it would be like making it through the 80s without knowing the lyrics to Michael Jackson's 'Thriller'. You almost have to be an extreme outsider or a very independent person indeed to escape the milieu.

drweevil 2y ago

This is spot-on. In addition to the obvious risks (privacy, security), these devices represent a tremendous opportunity cost. Think of how that life-crushed-into-an-iPad commercial resonated in all the unintended ways.

causal 2y ago
Opportunity cost is a good term for the problem with addictive tech. Any one of the little distractions it offers up seems harmless, but in aggregate they represent a massive time opportunity cost, and indulging a few without succumbing to the aggregate has proven incredibly difficult for many.

xyst 2y ago

The “blame {some new technology} on the downfall of society” racket is getting old. People aren’t _feeling sexy_ because of the smart phone. People aren’t feeling sexy because they _lack the time_ to invest in these relationships. Technology and automation innovation of the 80s and 90s promised us shorter work weeks, stable pay, more security, better prosperity. Yet labor/workers have the opposite in this “modern” economy. A majority of people in the US are working multiple jobs just to support themselves and family. Healthcare is out of reach for many people due to the obscene price fixing scandal known as health insurance. Wages for labor has stagnated since the 80-90s. While corporate profits have reached all time highs and US govt gets bent for the rich by giving them tax cuts. Subsequently, public programs and safety net programs get cut. An increasing number of _middle class workers_ are getting left behind and we have collectively done nothing about it. I’ll re-iterate. The awful neoliberal economics this country’s policy is the reason why people don’t _feel sexy_ anymore. This is the true downfall of society and a once great country.

skirmish 2y ago
> The “blame {some new technology} on the downfall of society” racket is getting old. Same old, see Socrates circa 400 BC railing against reading and writing: "and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

perching_aix 2y ago

> Remember this the next time you fall asleep to a TikTok playing on an endless loop: one day your heart will stop beating. Dogshit mental health advice of the week award goes to... What a disaster of a read. The rape of the language one utterance of 'sexy' at a time. At least it reset my compass on what I consider bizarre after all the LLM stuff. Really hope this was not written sober, otherwise I'm fresh out of hope again. I guess OP would find that very sexy somehow though.

deleted 2y ago

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binary132 2y ago

something seriously out of whack with this

MrMcCall 2y ago

I didn't like my first cellphone, loaned as part of working for Nokia >20ya. They are, however, excellent tools for communication and even looking something up on the web. Other than that, my fam has stories of entire families at our local park walking, each on their own separate phone. It is not sad or pitiable, for their choices are theirs to make, but the effects on their psyches and eyesight are not positive. As to being sexy, being able to make someone laugh and actually caring about their wellbeing such that you will actually do something to help them become happier -- those are the qualities that will attract a person to you. Everything else we do in life is mere drivel, and directing our life towards such vainglorious pursuits them will only attract other frivolous, unawake people. Fill your heart with love for all human beings and the Earth, herself, and others will want to be around you, unless they are dark-hearted fools, but you don't want to be around them, anyway.

jjmarr 2y ago

> Instantaneous access to everything obviously comes at a cost. The cost being that we all behave like demented Roman emperors, at once bored and deranged, summoning whatever we want at any time. > All over the world, an entire generation of young men, often referred to as “NEETs,” are robbing themselves of agency, drive, and romantic relationships through their addiction to video games and pornography. Video games allow a young man to experience a sort of pseudo-achievement, while pornography masquerades as love. Some of these men have seen more naked women than any king who has ever lived. > Many will mock their pain and their addiction, but it’s heartbreaking to think that they’ll never experience true risk, true reward, or true romance. This post acknowledges that NEETs are living better than ancient Roman emperors, but laments they're missing out on "risk, reward, and romance" that these ancient Romans had. What exactly is so great about risking death on the battlefield or risking food poisoning at a bad restaurant? Why would an average man in his early 20s want to take a risk by approaching women at one's job or in public? Especially when you go on Tinder/Hinge and realize just how worthless you actually are. The article argues that: > Thoroughly exhausting ourselves intellectually and physically through productive work brings fulfillment, and with fulfillment comes peace. But you can, as the article acknowledges, thoroughly exhaust yourself through video games and online vices. Achievement no longer requires risk. And the article is unable to quantify what value that risk brings beyond being inherently exciting. If this was true, why aren't more people taking risks? It should be more fun than sitting at home all day. "NEET" is an economic term that stands for "not in education, employment, or training", because unemployment doesn't include people that have left the labour force entirely. Self-description as a NEET is a proud admission that one does not contribute to the economy or work force; it's a valuation of the individual over the community. This article accepts that premise and argues in futility that NEETs don't really want the lifestyle they chose. I disagree, and I'd rather we make it an explicit value of our society to reject individual freedoms that cause broader social harms. If smartphone addiction is legitimately destroying society by acting as a sinkhole for human potential, we should apply legal restrictions or taxes on screen time. That would be more effective than telling someone who's doomscrolling how they're actually hurting themselves.

liontwist 2y ago

The pictured inserted in the article are attractive for the nostalgia and don’t support the phone argument.

varelse 2y ago

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poulpy123 2y ago

Joke on you I never felt sexy

deeg 2y ago

She makes some decent points but a lot of this feels like the age-old argument of "$SOMETHING_NEW was fun and exciting when I was young and now it's all turned to shit."

thunderbong 2y ago

> Today, everyone and everything is always available, and there’s nothing less sexy than that. There’s no chase. Our phones don’t allow us time to dwell, and they don’t allow us time to yearn. Why force yourself to daydream about the guy you’re seeing when you can easily look at dozens of photographs of him online? Why walk into a store in Soho and see what’s on offer when you can stay home and scroll the entire inventory from the comfort of your couch? Why go to the library to find books about a topic that interests you when you can look it up on Wikipedia in two minutes and move on with your day?

chasebank 2y ago

Tim Robinson has this sketch about the phone that, on the surface, is totally ridiculous—but if you take a step back, it’s actually kind of thought-provoking. His comedy isn’t for everyone, but when he nails something, he really nails it. [0] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4qi7MsXyP8E https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4qi7MsXyP8E

mplanchard 2y ago

While I agree with this article, I think the selection solely of vogue model shots and Paris Hilton’s waist from the early aughts is in poor taste. The beauty aesthetic of the time tended rather extremely towards anorexic, and the selection of images in this piece might as well say, “Remember when THIN was IN?”, which I think detracts from its overall message. It’s also a bit of a weird choice, because similar shots from today are often of equally beautiful, equally thin models and are just as sexy: that portion of media at least does not seem to have changed much. In addition, if making a more general point about standards of beauty, perhaps it would have been nice to include a photo of Brad Pitt or something? Is the implicit assumption here that only women can be sexy, or that only heterosexual men will be reading the article? Like, there are literally people I’d share this article with (e.g. my wife) if not for the really poor selection of photos.

_rpxpx 2y ago

OK, this is "sex in the city" bloggery, but it does contain some very good & important points which HN readers should attend to. Specifically to my mind: the importance of CHANCE and NOT-KNOWING to the value of experience, and happiness. To simplify: Romance necessitates CHANCE. A chance encounter, something improbable, strange, etc is the basis for the myth that sustains the romantic idea. Dating apps are inherently anti-romantic. Relatedly, many experiences are valuable ONLY because they are unpredictable. Adventure necessitates NOT KNOWING what is coming. Smartphones kill the spirit of adventure.

rdlw 2y ago
What's '"sex in the city" bloggery'? It just seems like a well-written persuasive essay to me.
- _rpxpx 2y ago
  yes, maybe that was unfair. I thought it contained good points, I just don't like that style of writing. But I'm glad that people like that are thinking along these lines.

anal_reactor 2y ago

My traumatic childhood killed my ability to feel sexy. My adult realization that very few people are worth my time and it's extremely unlikely for me to find a happy relationship killed my libido. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

pointedAt 2y ago

100 % ... noticed this when trying to find a recent butt pick of Nicola Cavani on instagram, yesterday. I do that a few times a year to collect reference for my AI powered buttbook platform. company will be rebranded to oh-mega later on. girls taking selfies and staring at their phones is unreasonably unsexy.

carabiner 2y ago

Speak for yourself.

twobitshifter 2y ago

On the sexy front, my company has marketing materials from 10 years ago showing people at a construction site interacting with their phones. The idea is that it was sexy and cool to be connected and be using technology to communicate and interact with the project. But today? It just looks like someone is goofing off on social media when they should be working.

alabhyajindal 2y ago

Appreciate the article, but why do so many articles these days have to start with a history of the world? Do we really need to go through the years and recall the introduction of the iPhone? Do we all not know that already? I hate this trend so much. It's common in tech talks now. Recapping the entire history only to come to the main point, the title of the talk, towards the final 10 minutes. Come on.

ristos 2y ago

Idk, popular people and probably influencer types look cool with a phone. They look like a VIP, people are constantly texting them, it looks like they're constantly socializing, networking, etc. Same with social media, they have like 5 million friends and it looks like a lot's going on in their lives. That's probably the difference between how cool people use technology vs nerds or dorks. When I use my phone, it's either to look something up, study or learn something new, read the news, or talk to my mom. I would imagine I probably don't look cool using my phone. Joking aside, I think one thing that I really don't like about smartphones and texting entering our lives is that when you're out for food or coffee people get on their phones, and it feels antisocial, like you can't talk to them now without interrupting them from whatever they're doing on their phone. In the past, I remember, if people had nothing to say, they would just sit there and look off into the distance. It all felt way more social back then, when people got together they interacted more.