15 ms·

Deferred resignation email to federal employees

164 points by dnissley 2y ago

fooker 2y ago
Wow, I have morbid curiosity about how this will work out. Democrats better hope that this crashes and burns, because if this shows any chance of being effective, we're in for a tough authoritarian ride.
ceejayoz 2y ago
I wonder how many spoofed "From: potus@whitehouse.gov" "Subject: Resign" emails they're about to get.
- hedora 2y ago
  Yeah. I also wonder how many spoofed responses they will get in general.
  - avs733 2y ago
    And what plan they have to tell those apart (hint: none). Doing so is exactly the type of abusive behavior abusive ex partners are known for. Agree with it in principle or not, this system really belies the stupidity behind these scenes. Governments and employers don’t do paperwork around hiring for fun - they do it for an auditable paper trail which has real and important value.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  One more now.
  - nullc 2y ago
    Impersonating a federal officer or employee is a crime. 18 U.S. Code § 912 (technically you have to obtain a document, money, or other thing of value to run afoul of that particular law, but getting a reply to a successful spoof might qualify, and who knows whatever other laws it might violate, 25 CFR § 11.432 perhaps).
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Oh noes! And we all know how famously rigorously spam and phishing is prosecuted! (I didn’t actually do that. What stopped me is no longer being 12 years old, not a fear of going to Gitmo for sending an obviously fake email.)
unsnap_biceps 2y ago
> The federal workforce should be comprised of employees who are reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and who strive for excellence in their daily work. Employees will be subject to enhanced standards of suitability and conduct as we move forward. Has there ever been a loyalty component to rank and file federal employment before? This seems to go against the meritocracy they claim to want. If you do a great job, anything else shouldn't matter...
- hedora 2y ago
  There’s nothing in there about being qualified for the job, so this is definitely not a meritocracy play. The bit right after the piece you quoted is interesting: > Employees who engage in unlawful behavior or other misconduct will be prioritized for appropriate investigation and discipline, including termination. I hope they start at the top!
  - andy_ppp 2y ago
    It depends who is deciding what illegal is…
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    There’s nothing in there about being qualified for the job, Yes there is: Performance culture: The federal workforce should be comprised of the best America has to offer. We will insist on excellence at every level — our performance standards will be updated to reward and promote those that exceed expectations and address in a fair and open way those who do not meet the high standards which the taxpayers of this country have a right to demand.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      And really, who wouldn’t want to work at a place with lower pay than almost anywhere and now horrendous job security and workplace conditions!
      - 2y ago
calrain 2y ago
Future America will understand that you don't treat government like a company. The money government spends on salaries is money directly injected back into the economy, it could be seen as a form of social welfare.
- compass_copium 2y ago
  Yes, but they can get the same effect by buying military hardware--and that has the added benefit of making Raytheon management and shareholders richer. When you just directly pay an employee with government money, there's no way to do that!
  - thwarted 2y ago
    The military industrial complex in the United States is a socialist jobs program (with the added benefit of making the management and shareholders of contractors richer).
- jfengel 2y ago
  "Future America" is sounding increasingly oxymoronic.
- Hatchback7599 2y ago
  You know what else injects money back into the economy? Letting tax payers keep more of their tax dollars.
  - smcin 2y ago
    But still less than if the federal employee was providing any ROI whatsoever on their salary. Why not instead talk about which federal departments (or agencies) provide an ROI, and how that can be measured in a nonpartisan way. (In any case, US federal debt interest payments will be ~$952b in 2025, out of $7.5 trillion budget. That's >> more than the $271b on total salaries for all civilian employees (or the $4.7 trillion tax cuts which expire end 2025). So, intentionally crippling the federal govt still wouldn't touch either the debt or interest payments; except as a blunt instrument to kill govt programs and bypass Congress.)
ndiddy 2y ago
Here's the OPM guidance memo to department heads about this program: https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%20re%20Deferred%20Resignation%20Program%201-28-2025.pdf https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%... Key quote: "Employees who accept deferred resignation should promptly have their duties re-assigned or eliminated and be placed on paid administrative leave until the end of the deferred resignation period (generally, September 30, 2025, unless the employee has elected another earlier resignation date), unless the agency head determines that it is necessary for the employee to be actively engaged in transitioning job duties, in which case employees should be placed on administrative leave as soon as those duties are transitioned."
- araes 2y ago
  Only a couple days and it's already File Not Found. Here's a different link that appears to still work: https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%20re%20Deferred%20Resignation%20Program%2001-28-25%20FINAL.pdf https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%... Here's the FAQ that got put up on OPM. https://www.opm.gov/fork/faq/ https://www.opm.gov/fork/faq/ Note: This is pretty much every single one of the federal employees (2.2 million) other than: "military personnel of the armed forces, employees of the U.S. Postal Service, those in positions related to immigration enforcement and national security, and those in other positions specifically excluded by your employing agency." The quotes are predictably demeaning: Am I allowed to get a second job? "Absolutely! We encourage you to find a job in the private sector as soon as you would like to do so. The way to greater American prosperity is encouraging people to move from lower productivity jobs in the public sector to higher productivity jobs in the private sector." Poster (YouDoHaveValue) on Reddit had a pretty great take: Typical indicators of a scam: - Sounds too good to be true - Urgent requests or threats, FOMO - Spelling / grammar errors - Payments via unconventional / insecure means - Links or attachments prompting you to provide personal information There have already been legal fights about the mass mailings from new OPM addresses as reported by (Wired) https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lackeys-office-personnel-management-opm-neuralink-x-boring-stalin/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lackeys-office-personn...: "Last week, federal employees across the government received emails encouraging them to turn in colleagues who they believed to be working on diversity, equity, inclusion, and access initiatives (DEIA) to the OPM via the email address DEIAtruth@opm.gov" Also, this story seems to have sank remarkably quickly...
roland35 2y ago
Seems like an Elon email!
- pwg 2y ago
  The subject line is identical to the subject line he used for the "leave or become hardcore" email to twitter just after the buyout.
- freshnode 2y ago
  Came here to say the same. Got musk written all over it
- avs733 2y ago
  Including the typos in the first draft they posted
patriot_games 2y ago
[dead]
jfengel 2y ago
Loyalty to whom? Your spouse? The country? Your immediate supervisor? Your coworkers? It's the things that aren't said that make it feel so Orwellian.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  From the letter (emphasis mine): If you choose to remain in your current position, we thank you for your renewed focus on serving the *American people* to the best of your abilities and look forward to working together as part of an improved federal workforce.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - hedora 2y ago
      They’re already starting to purge government employees that refuse to break US law when Trump asks them to: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-puts-leave-nearly-60-usaid-career-staff-after-aid-freeze-2025-01-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-puts-l...
  - avs733 2y ago
    “American people”
smoovb 2y ago
[flagged]
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  They've already issued RTO directives with timelines in place, and non-compliance will result in people losing their jobs. This letter is not about that. This is just a way to reduce headcount by the end of this FY before going to voluntary separation options like early retirement which might cost more (in total).
  - oldwebguy94 2y ago
    > this is just a way to reduce headcount by the end of this FY It's not just a way to reduce headcount, as the next four years will make abundantly clear. People will be hired back into these jobs under the new Schedule Policy/Career -- the replacement for Trump's Schedule F. Basically: the people getting the offer now have protections set up by Biden in response to Trump's Schedule F, that Trump would like to buy them out of. The people hired back into them will not. They will be asked to be loyal to Trump. This isn't about money. This is about power.
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      > Basically: the people getting the offer now have protections set up by Biden in response to Trump's Schedule F, that Trump would like to buy them out of. This offer has gone out to all feds, not just those falling under Schedule F. You've not been paying attention if you believe the statements you've written.
      - oldwebguy94 2y ago
        Of course it has. I read that. But that's exactly the point, isn't it!? Many, many of these jobs going up the seniority scale will reappear but be recreated as Schedule Policy/Career. (Schedule F no longer exists, I think) I mean, I might be wrong. But wait and see: I don't think I am going to be wrong. It is abundantly clear that Trump and the people around him are trying to create a civil service that is loyal to the President specifically. He tried before to do this which is why Biden produced legislation to make it difficult. Trump's stated aim in this presidency, as well as in his prior presidency, has been to radically expand the range of jobs that fall under Schedule F. If you don't know that, then you have not been paying attention. It's safe to assume he will use every lever possible to remake roles as political appointments, and this will be one of those levers. ETA: Speaking to CNN on Tuesday, Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff for policy, said the government's two million workers were "overwhelmingly left of centre", adding it was "essential" for Trump to "get control of government". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o So it is clear -- from the mouth of Goebbels 2.0 himself -- that Trump intends to use this process to reshape the political slant of federal government. Any "it's purely about the cost" argument is dead in the water. There will be recasting of roles as political, there will be loyalty pledges, there will be litmus tests.
andy_ppp 2y ago
Anyone else think it’s likely America ends up without being a meaningful democracy by the end of this? I am skeptical the stated goal is efficiency it’s loyalty to MAGA. Imagine how extreme they will get if you can never vote them out.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  I very much agree, and it's part of why I live abroad. I don't understand why the people behind January 6 would then go on to allow free and fair elections and politely hand back power when they lose.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    I moved abroad decades ago and have now spent more than half my life out of the US, but it's only nowadays that I thank my lucky stars.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      For a long time I eyed the pay and interesting companies in norcal thinking “did I make a mistake?” But now I clutch my EU passport thankfully
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - uoaei 2y ago
    Faith in the system is no substitute for the actual work of maintenance. Right now there are people in power actively dismantling the system -- faith is not enough.
  - theonething 2y ago
    Thank you for a voice of reason.
  - fooblaster 2y ago
ninetyninenine 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  A union, like the police have?
  - ninetyninenine 2y ago
    Federal union of federal emoloyees
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
The thing that's interesting to me is how the Trump Republicans used tactics so effectively to accuse the Dems, "deep state", etc. of all this nefarious conduct, and then explicitly embraced that conduct as openly and vigorously as possible. E.g accuse career civil servants of being secretly partisan, and then explicitly kick out anyone who isn't loyal to Trump and demand Trump loyalty, countering ~150 years of American policy. Accuse Democrats of stealing an election, and then attempt to violently overturn the results of an election after essentially every claim of election malfeasance was laughed out of court. Even how they painted Biden's pardons was pretty brilliant IMO. Trump had already pretty much telegraphed that he would pardon anyone who kissed up to him, and had been explicit about how he would use federal power to seek revenge. So while I was very much against Biden's pardon of his family, I'm sure Biden was probably like "F this shizz, it's not like holding the moral high ground is doing anyone any favors." But now, of course, anyone with Trump's blessing will get a pardon regardless of what they do, and they can point to Biden's pardons as "Dems did it first". I think we are truly and surely fucked in the mid-long term - what we're going through looks pretty much exactly what all previous empires looked like when they fell into decline. It's just kind of stunning to watch with so much transparency.
- archagon 2y ago
  DARVO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
swagaccident 2y ago
Has something like this ever happened before? Did it feel this bad last time around? This seems especially spooky.
tptacek 2y ago
Federal employees have statutory no-cause termination protection, and the President presumably can't simply reclassify the federal workforce as "at-will".
- rayiner 2y ago
  Article II says: “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” I doubt it’s constitutional for employment law to preclude the president from firing any executive branch employee. It’s quite possible it’s constitutional to have contractual remedies for termination. I suspect that’s why there’s an 8 month severance.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    I mean, if you want to see him set the land-speed record on getting a TRO, beating today's performance, by all means let's see him try. Your guess is good as mine which way Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will go on admin-law/separation-of-powers issues. Maybe it'll be resolved before the midterms! My read of this is that no 8-month severance has been offered, for whatever that's worth.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      That’s what DOJ is for. He’s got the pointiest eggheads working for him now. He should litigate everything. And if people don’t like where we’re at in 2 years or 4 years, they’ll vote accordingly! AP is reporting 8 months severance: https://apnews.com/article/trump-buyouts-to-all-federal-employees-f67f5751a0fd5ad8471806a5a1067b5e https://apnews.com/article/trump-buyouts-to-all-federal-empl...
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Roberts Seila Law decision explicitly states that Congress can --- outside of the situation of heads of single-director independent agencies --- limit the removal powers of the President. Further, the logic you're using implies that the entire federal workforce is exempt from literally any employment law of any sort. You may respond that the administration's pointy eggheads are going to craft persuasive arguments to that effect, but I'd be happy to put money on their likelihood of success. What do you say? I'm not interested in the politics of this, as you so often are. I'm just interested in people having a clear understanding of the dynamics at play here --- in people nerding out on legal issues. Except under a fringe interpretation of Unitary Executive theory, the President cannot simply ignore statutes like the CSRA.
theyinwhy 2y ago
There is a huge difference between "creating lists for further use" and "offering buyouts". You sure those lists are only for offering buyouts, just because a notorious liar tells you so? Discussion at reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ibbbh7/this_was_posted_about_opm_in_our_union_chat/ https://old.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ibbbh7/this_was_p...
12345hn6789 2y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849061
apexalpha 2y ago
So when they said they would run the government 'like a business' they actually meant a Private Equity hostile take-over informed by 1970 McKinsey consultants. It's day 8. Good luck all.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  Welcome to the era of private jets, record-setting yachts, prime real estate, and Russian prostitutes. Tremendous. PS you're not working hard enough and salaries are frozen.

164 points by dnissley 2y ago

Wow, I have morbid curiosity about how this will work out. Democrats better hope that this crashes and burns, because if this shows any chance of being effective, we're in for a tough authoritarian ride.

ceejayoz 2y ago

I wonder how many spoofed "From: potus@whitehouse.gov" "Subject: Resign" emails they're about to get.

hedora 2y ago
Yeah. I also wonder how many spoofed responses they will get in general.
- avs733 2y ago
  And what plan they have to tell those apart (hint: none). Doing so is exactly the type of abusive behavior abusive ex partners are known for. Agree with it in principle or not, this system really belies the stupidity behind these scenes. Governments and employers don’t do paperwork around hiring for fun - they do it for an auditable paper trail which has real and important value.
kstrauser 2y ago
One more now.
- nullc 2y ago
  Impersonating a federal officer or employee is a crime. 18 U.S. Code § 912 (technically you have to obtain a document, money, or other thing of value to run afoul of that particular law, but getting a reply to a successful spoof might qualify, and who knows whatever other laws it might violate, 25 CFR § 11.432 perhaps).
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Oh noes! And we all know how famously rigorously spam and phishing is prosecuted! (I didn’t actually do that. What stopped me is no longer being 12 years old, not a fear of going to Gitmo for sending an obviously fake email.)

unsnap_biceps 2y ago

> The federal workforce should be comprised of employees who are reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and who strive for excellence in their daily work. Employees will be subject to enhanced standards of suitability and conduct as we move forward. Has there ever been a loyalty component to rank and file federal employment before? This seems to go against the meritocracy they claim to want. If you do a great job, anything else shouldn't matter...

hedora 2y ago
There’s nothing in there about being qualified for the job, so this is definitely not a meritocracy play. The bit right after the piece you quoted is interesting: > Employees who engage in unlawful behavior or other misconduct will be prioritized for appropriate investigation and discipline, including termination. I hope they start at the top!
- andy_ppp 2y ago
  It depends who is deciding what illegal is…
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  There’s nothing in there about being qualified for the job, Yes there is: Performance culture: The federal workforce should be comprised of the best America has to offer. We will insist on excellence at every level — our performance standards will be updated to reward and promote those that exceed expectations and address in a fair and open way those who do not meet the high standards which the taxpayers of this country have a right to demand.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    And really, who wouldn’t want to work at a place with lower pay than almost anywhere and now horrendous job security and workplace conditions!
    - 2y ago

calrain 2y ago

Future America will understand that you don't treat government like a company. The money government spends on salaries is money directly injected back into the economy, it could be seen as a form of social welfare.

compass_copium 2y ago
Yes, but they can get the same effect by buying military hardware--and that has the added benefit of making Raytheon management and shareholders richer. When you just directly pay an employee with government money, there's no way to do that!
- thwarted 2y ago
  The military industrial complex in the United States is a socialist jobs program (with the added benefit of making the management and shareholders of contractors richer).
jfengel 2y ago
"Future America" is sounding increasingly oxymoronic.
Hatchback7599 2y ago
You know what else injects money back into the economy? Letting tax payers keep more of their tax dollars.
- smcin 2y ago
  But still less than if the federal employee was providing any ROI whatsoever on their salary. Why not instead talk about which federal departments (or agencies) provide an ROI, and how that can be measured in a nonpartisan way. (In any case, US federal debt interest payments will be ~$952b in 2025, out of $7.5 trillion budget. That's >> more than the $271b on total salaries for all civilian employees (or the $4.7 trillion tax cuts which expire end 2025). So, intentionally crippling the federal govt still wouldn't touch either the debt or interest payments; except as a blunt instrument to kill govt programs and bypass Congress.)

ndiddy 2y ago

Here's the OPM guidance memo to department heads about this program: https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%20re%20Deferred%20Resignation%20Program%201-28-2025.pdf https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%... Key quote: "Employees who accept deferred resignation should promptly have their duties re-assigned or eliminated and be placed on paid administrative leave until the end of the deferred resignation period (generally, September 30, 2025, unless the employee has elected another earlier resignation date), unless the agency head determines that it is necessary for the employee to be actively engaged in transitioning job duties, in which case employees should be placed on administrative leave as soon as those duties are transitioned."

araes 2y ago
Only a couple days and it's already File Not Found. Here's a different link that appears to still work: https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%20re%20Deferred%20Resignation%20Program%2001-28-25%20FINAL.pdf https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Guidance%20Memo%... Here's the FAQ that got put up on OPM. https://www.opm.gov/fork/faq/ https://www.opm.gov/fork/faq/ Note: This is pretty much every single one of the federal employees (2.2 million) other than: "military personnel of the armed forces, employees of the U.S. Postal Service, those in positions related to immigration enforcement and national security, and those in other positions specifically excluded by your employing agency." The quotes are predictably demeaning: Am I allowed to get a second job? "Absolutely! We encourage you to find a job in the private sector as soon as you would like to do so. The way to greater American prosperity is encouraging people to move from lower productivity jobs in the public sector to higher productivity jobs in the private sector." Poster (YouDoHaveValue) on Reddit had a pretty great take: Typical indicators of a scam: - Sounds too good to be true - Urgent requests or threats, FOMO - Spelling / grammar errors - Payments via unconventional / insecure means - Links or attachments prompting you to provide personal information There have already been legal fights about the mass mailings from new OPM addresses as reported by (Wired) https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lackeys-office-personnel-management-opm-neuralink-x-boring-stalin/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lackeys-office-personn...: "Last week, federal employees across the government received emails encouraging them to turn in colleagues who they believed to be working on diversity, equity, inclusion, and access initiatives (DEIA) to the OPM via the email address DEIAtruth@opm.gov" Also, this story seems to have sank remarkably quickly...

roland35 2y ago

Seems like an Elon email!

pwg 2y ago
The subject line is identical to the subject line he used for the "leave or become hardcore" email to twitter just after the buyout.
freshnode 2y ago
Came here to say the same. Got musk written all over it
avs733 2y ago
Including the typos in the first draft they posted

patriot_games 2y ago

[dead]

jfengel 2y ago

Loyalty to whom? Your spouse? The country? Your immediate supervisor? Your coworkers? It's the things that aren't said that make it feel so Orwellian.

rahimnathwani 2y ago
From the letter (emphasis mine): If you choose to remain in your current position, we thank you for your renewed focus on serving the *American people* to the best of your abilities and look forward to working together as part of an improved federal workforce.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hedora 2y ago
    They’re already starting to purge government employees that refuse to break US law when Trump asks them to: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-puts-leave-nearly-60-usaid-career-staff-after-aid-freeze-2025-01-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-puts-l...
- avs733 2y ago
  “American people”

smoovb 2y ago

[flagged]

Jtsummers 2y ago
They've already issued RTO directives with timelines in place, and non-compliance will result in people losing their jobs. This letter is not about that. This is just a way to reduce headcount by the end of this FY before going to voluntary separation options like early retirement which might cost more (in total).
- oldwebguy94 2y ago
  > this is just a way to reduce headcount by the end of this FY It's not just a way to reduce headcount, as the next four years will make abundantly clear. People will be hired back into these jobs under the new Schedule Policy/Career -- the replacement for Trump's Schedule F. Basically: the people getting the offer now have protections set up by Biden in response to Trump's Schedule F, that Trump would like to buy them out of. The people hired back into them will not. They will be asked to be loyal to Trump. This isn't about money. This is about power.
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    > Basically: the people getting the offer now have protections set up by Biden in response to Trump's Schedule F, that Trump would like to buy them out of. This offer has gone out to all feds, not just those falling under Schedule F. You've not been paying attention if you believe the statements you've written.
    - oldwebguy94 2y ago
      Of course it has. I read that. But that's exactly the point, isn't it!? Many, many of these jobs going up the seniority scale will reappear but be recreated as Schedule Policy/Career. (Schedule F no longer exists, I think) I mean, I might be wrong. But wait and see: I don't think I am going to be wrong. It is abundantly clear that Trump and the people around him are trying to create a civil service that is loyal to the President specifically. He tried before to do this which is why Biden produced legislation to make it difficult. Trump's stated aim in this presidency, as well as in his prior presidency, has been to radically expand the range of jobs that fall under Schedule F. If you don't know that, then you have not been paying attention. It's safe to assume he will use every lever possible to remake roles as political appointments, and this will be one of those levers. ETA: Speaking to CNN on Tuesday, Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff for policy, said the government's two million workers were "overwhelmingly left of centre", adding it was "essential" for Trump to "get control of government". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o So it is clear -- from the mouth of Goebbels 2.0 himself -- that Trump intends to use this process to reshape the political slant of federal government. Any "it's purely about the cost" argument is dead in the water. There will be recasting of roles as political, there will be loyalty pledges, there will be litmus tests.

andy_ppp 2y ago

Anyone else think it’s likely America ends up without being a meaningful democracy by the end of this? I am skeptical the stated goal is efficiency it’s loyalty to MAGA. Imagine how extreme they will get if you can never vote them out.

CalRobert 2y ago
I very much agree, and it's part of why I live abroad. I don't understand why the people behind January 6 would then go on to allow free and fair elections and politely hand back power when they lose.
- euroderf 2y ago
  I moved abroad decades ago and have now spent more than half my life out of the US, but it's only nowadays that I thank my lucky stars.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    For a long time I eyed the pay and interesting companies in norcal thinking “did I make a mistake?” But now I clutch my EU passport thankfully
bigstrat2003 2y ago
[flagged]
- uoaei 2y ago
  Faith in the system is no substitute for the actual work of maintenance. Right now there are people in power actively dismantling the system -- faith is not enough.
- theonething 2y ago
  Thank you for a voice of reason.
- fooblaster 2y ago

ninetyninenine 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
readthenotes1 2y ago
A union, like the police have?
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  Federal union of federal emoloyees

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

The thing that's interesting to me is how the Trump Republicans used tactics so effectively to accuse the Dems, "deep state", etc. of all this nefarious conduct, and then explicitly embraced that conduct as openly and vigorously as possible. E.g accuse career civil servants of being secretly partisan, and then explicitly kick out anyone who isn't loyal to Trump and demand Trump loyalty, countering ~150 years of American policy. Accuse Democrats of stealing an election, and then attempt to violently overturn the results of an election after essentially every claim of election malfeasance was laughed out of court. Even how they painted Biden's pardons was pretty brilliant IMO. Trump had already pretty much telegraphed that he would pardon anyone who kissed up to him, and had been explicit about how he would use federal power to seek revenge. So while I was very much against Biden's pardon of his family, I'm sure Biden was probably like "F this shizz, it's not like holding the moral high ground is doing anyone any favors." But now, of course, anyone with Trump's blessing will get a pardon regardless of what they do, and they can point to Biden's pardons as "Dems did it first". I think we are truly and surely fucked in the mid-long term - what we're going through looks pretty much exactly what all previous empires looked like when they fell into decline. It's just kind of stunning to watch with so much transparency.

archagon 2y ago
DARVO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

swagaccident 2y ago

Has something like this ever happened before? Did it feel this bad last time around? This seems especially spooky.

tptacek 2y ago

Federal employees have statutory no-cause termination protection, and the President presumably can't simply reclassify the federal workforce as "at-will".

rayiner 2y ago
Article II says: “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” I doubt it’s constitutional for employment law to preclude the president from firing any executive branch employee. It’s quite possible it’s constitutional to have contractual remedies for termination. I suspect that’s why there’s an 8 month severance.
- tptacek 2y ago
  I mean, if you want to see him set the land-speed record on getting a TRO, beating today's performance, by all means let's see him try. Your guess is good as mine which way Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will go on admin-law/separation-of-powers issues. Maybe it'll be resolved before the midterms! My read of this is that no 8-month severance has been offered, for whatever that's worth.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    That’s what DOJ is for. He’s got the pointiest eggheads working for him now. He should litigate everything. And if people don’t like where we’re at in 2 years or 4 years, they’ll vote accordingly! AP is reporting 8 months severance: https://apnews.com/article/trump-buyouts-to-all-federal-employees-f67f5751a0fd5ad8471806a5a1067b5e https://apnews.com/article/trump-buyouts-to-all-federal-empl...
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Roberts Seila Law decision explicitly states that Congress can --- outside of the situation of heads of single-director independent agencies --- limit the removal powers of the President. Further, the logic you're using implies that the entire federal workforce is exempt from literally any employment law of any sort. You may respond that the administration's pointy eggheads are going to craft persuasive arguments to that effect, but I'd be happy to put money on their likelihood of success. What do you say? I'm not interested in the politics of this, as you so often are. I'm just interested in people having a clear understanding of the dynamics at play here --- in people nerding out on legal issues. Except under a fringe interpretation of Unitary Executive theory, the President cannot simply ignore statutes like the CSRA.

theyinwhy 2y ago

There is a huge difference between "creating lists for further use" and "offering buyouts". You sure those lists are only for offering buyouts, just because a notorious liar tells you so? Discussion at reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ibbbh7/this_was_posted_about_opm_in_our_union_chat/ https://old.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1ibbbh7/this_was_p...

12345hn6789 2y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42849061

apexalpha 2y ago

So when they said they would run the government 'like a business' they actually meant a Private Equity hostile take-over informed by 1970 McKinsey consultants. It's day 8. Good luck all.

lifestyleguru 2y ago
Welcome to the era of private jets, record-setting yachts, prime real estate, and Russian prostitutes. Tremendous. PS you're not working hard enough and salaries are frozen.