13 ms·

Chimera Linux works toward a simplified desktop

115 points by linfocito 2y ago

jmclnx 2y ago
never heard of it, but interesting setup. FreeBSD user land with Linux and Gnome/Wayland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_Linux
- codetrotter 2y ago
  For a while there was also a distro project working on the opposite direction. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. An official Debian GNU distribution using the kernel of FreeBSD instead of the Linux kernel. https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD Development of Debian GNU/kFreeBSD officially terminated July 2023 due to lack of interest and volunteers. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/07/msg00176.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/07/msg00176.html
- codetrotter 2y ago
  Another interesting, currently ongoing, mixture of Linux world and FreeBSD is NixBSD. A NixOS fork with a FreeBSD kernel. https://github.com/nixos-bsd/nixbsd https://github.com/nixos-bsd/nixbsd I came across it earlier today.
  - bpye 2y ago
    It’s not mentioned in the readme, but from a quick peruse it looks like that project also has some support for OpenBSD which is very neat.
- speakspokespok 2y ago
  One of the side benefits of using the FreeBSD userland is all the flags will be consistent regardless of the of program. ‘-l’ or ‘-a’ are going to do what you expect irrespective of the command. It’s nice, and I used free for along while. I still know BSD syntax better than the SystemV equivalent.
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    I have also used the GNU tools but the BSD ones are winning me over. Another benefit is consistency with macOS I suppose. It also uses the BSD userland.
- d3Xt3r 2y ago
  Why single out GNOME? There are also KDE images, and of course, plenty of other DEs and WMs in the repos which you can always install.
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    The project founder uses GNOME and it says that GNOME is the desktop in various places including the project website and Wikipedia. Other options are available though and there is even a KDE live bootable image. I use Chimera Linux with KDE.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  There used to be a Debian with a GNU userland on top of a FreeBSD kernel. Debian GNU/KFreeBSD, I think.
tetrisgm 2y ago
Simplified desktop doesn’t very clearly map to “very text oriented, barebones Linux UI“. I was expecting something more like the ststem76 Pop OS kinda thing when I read this.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
  Niri would be a simplified desktop to me https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri
  - PixelForg 2y ago
    I really wanted to switch to this but unfortunately it doesn't have support for Xwayland scaling :( in case youre using 4k, On Wayland only KDE and Gnome seem to have gotten this working.
    - discardedrefuse 2y ago
      If you're on KDE check out Karousel. It's a KDE Kwin script that does this type of scrollable tiling right inside KDE. Works great on my ultrawide monitor. https://store.kde.org/p/2045724 https://store.kde.org/p/2045724
    - omnimus 2y ago
      There is also PaperWM https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM it works pretty well. I would be using it if i didnt switch to Cosmic.
  - desireco42 2y ago
    Wow... love it, thanks for posting.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    Cheers, that looks nice.
  - christophilus 2y ago
    Niri is my daily driver. I absolutely love it. Couldn’t switch back to any other approach to window management.
zb3 2y ago
I hope Google will make Android more desktop friendly so it becomes the real alternative to the current status quo.
- skydhash 2y ago
  We could have something like android in the linux world if manufacturers did the minimum to support Linux (which already accept binary blobs). But they also want to push their (bloated) apps alongside the driver.
- axelthegerman 2y ago
  I hope not
- XorNot 2y ago
  I don't. Google's Android support has just slowly eroded away all the Linux benefits with layers and layers of user hostile "security" without the benefits (i.e. backing up my phone to Google doesn't mean a new phone will one-click recover itself to how it was).
- discardedrefuse 2y ago
  They have ChromeOS Flex which runs on normal PCs and works fine.
mig39 2y ago
So simplified I couldn't figure out how to even login, let alone install it. I think if they're aiming for simplicity, start with the installer. And no, "read the instructions" isn't making it simpler.
- akdor1154 2y ago
  Simplicity in implementation is not necessarily the same as simplicity in usability. Both are desirable, but if there's a trade-off between the two, then I reckon it's quite justifiable to prioritise the former.
  - rollcat 2y ago
    Try installing OpenBSD then. Even though the installer runs in text mode, it holds your hand thru a standard setup, all the way to a graphical login. The basic X11 desktop is a part of the base system (as opposed to packages/ports). The installer also supports a bunch of advanced features, like scripting an automated install. OpenBSD is also some of the cleanest and simplest code I've ever read.
    - eth0up 2y ago
      Maybe it seems a stupid question, but it's an honest one: why openbsd rather than freebsd? I tried freebsd when Debian integrated systemd. Being neither savvy or intelligent, I had trouble with the ports system and installations were taking hours for small applications. I gave up. I've always had a nagging desire to try again, but poor health has discouraged me from those kinds of learning curves. I recently left Debian again and use Void, with Opensuse on a separate drive for purposes of maintaining some competency and familiarity with systemd (just in case...). Anyway, I'd appreciate your input on the various BSDs. As I understand, recent funding suggests it may be growing and will remain viable for a long time, which was, however relevant or not, a concern for me. Edit: I might also mention that I gave serious consideration to Chimera before settling on Void, for similar reasons of learning curves. Of all distros, I had determined it would either be Void or Chimera and nothing else - or BSD.
walrus01 2y ago
[flagged]
- TacticalCoder 2y ago
  > Surely, 2025 will be the year of the Linux desktop! I don't know if that joke was more funny in the late nineties when Linux was basically nowhere (I was already using Desktop Linux back then though) or if it's more funny today, when Linux powers the entire real world. I mean: Linux powers 500 of the Top 500 supercomputers, billions (if not tens of billions) of devices, rockets (SpaceX uses Linux extensively), servers all around the world, routers in every single household or near that etc. Basically: Linux powers everything besides the desktop. Somehow I think there's some irony in thinking that joke is still funny in the same way it was funny in 1998 or so.
  - Fnoord 2y ago
    It is a reoccurring joke, aka a meme (before internet memes were internet memes). If you liked it, it builds on repetition and nostalgia. If you disliked it, you won't like when repeated. On top of that, whether you liked it or not it may get boring. Nowadays, it is out of date. Reality surpassed it: 99,9%+ of all smartphones is powered by either Linux or Unix (macOS). Are these desktops, with a pointer device? No. But they are GUI clients with touch UI. The Windows version? Too little, too late. Same counts for Linux desktop: too little, too late. If it ever wants to overtake Windows or macOS it has to be substantially better. This is why some FOSS people dislike efforts like Cygwin, SFU, and successors (such as WSL). It allows Windows to use unique utilities which were tailored for FOSS OSes.
  - ThrowawayB7 2y ago
    It's the "...on the desktop", i.e. that the general public would have a stated preference for Linux because it served them better than proprietary OSes, putting their makers out of business, that makes it funny. Linus even said "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." in a NYT interview back in '03. Much like "640k ought to be enough for anyone." and "There will be a market for only 5 computers in the world." (only in this case Linus is actually on record saying it), it's a testament to the overweening hubris of the early FOSS movement. The things that you list matter only to a small number of nerds and the general public wouldn't care a bit if they were all replaced by FreeBSD, Fuchsia, or TempleOS tomorrow. Even for the consumer applications, Linux is being primarily chosen just because the hardware manufacturer didn't want to pay money to license another OS to benefit their profit margins as much as anything else. So, yeah, the joke is still funny and it looks like it will be funny for the next few decades too.
okanat 2y ago
[flagged]
SoftTalker 2y ago
Why not just use a BSD?
- freeone3000 2y ago
  Linux driver support. There’s a ton of wifi drivers and the like that are supported under linux but not under BSD.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Obscure driver support doesn’t seem like it fits with a “simplified” Linux but maybe…
    - LeFantome 2y ago
      The list of hardware supported by the Linux kernel is not exactly “obscure”.
    - Klonoar 2y ago
      Wifi is not “obscure”.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  The obvious answer is to build on the Linux kernel. That means more extensive desktop hardware support. That means better desktop software compatibility. That means robust support for OCI containers. But Chimera goes beyond the BSD model in several ways. For example, it aims to bring the Systemd feature-set while avoiding Systemd. It also uses pipewire and Wayland. As mentioned elsewhere, the Chimera Linux founder also found the FreeBSD packaging system to be lacking. Chimera Linux also aims for stateless /etc and /var. There is a lot more to Chimera Linux than the userland.
  - krupan 2y ago
    Ok, so why use any BSD components then?
mrbluecoat 2y ago
If it was "born from unhappiness with the status quo" why not join forces with Void Linux?
- MaximilianEmel 2y ago
  The creator used to be a Void contributor.
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    The were the PPC maintainer. Which is why PPC is a tier one arch for Chimera Linux from the start.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      Interestingly enough there are almost zero reasonable PPC computers one can get.
      - teruakohatu 2y ago
        At the PPC prices, you got to have a really good reason to want a PPC desktop. The TalosII cost nearly $10k for the base 2X 4-core Power9 CPU version, and another $5k to upgrade to the 22-core CPU version. https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html
  - mrbluecoat 2y ago
    I see, thanks. https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relation-to-void-linux https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relat...
- LeFantome 2y ago
  Void Linux is part of the status quo they were unhappy with. Chimera Linux started off as a rewrite of the Void source packaging system. One of the complaints was using shell scripts for package templates. Chimera cports uses Python. Cports builds the binary packages (for apk 3).
oguz-ismail 2y ago
> Chimera's recommended desktop is GNOME But that's the opposite of a simplified desktop
- rsolva 2y ago
  GNOME? It is super simple. I have used Fedora/GNOME on my elderly family members laptops for many years now, and they just get it. Even the ones who came from Windows 10. The hours I spend on support has dropped significantly. Windows is such a hassel, and its desktop design philosophy is just not that great for casual users.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    I can't think of a single thing in Gnome that is somehow better than Windows, in terms of usability for beginners.
    - rsolva 2y ago
      My elderly family members beg to differ ;) So far, my experience with people above 60 is that they quickly understand how to find and navigate between the apps they use every day. The ones coming from Windows adapt suprisingly fast, and are very pleased that the fullscreen popups and forced updates are gone. Shortly before I moved them over to Fedora, they started developing a fear of using the computer because they never knew when it would 'lock them out' because the screen was filled with a fullscreen Office365 ad that had no obvious exit button.
  - rollcat 2y ago
    IMHO, GNOME is not simple, it's dumbed down. They've obviously tried to copy Apple where it suited them, but missed on a whole bunch of important details, like a unified menu system, a powerful terminal emulator, desktop icons (omg), while badly aping all of the worst parts - from requiring 4 clicks to shutdown/reboot (where macOS requires 2), thru a mostly useless top bar that steals the real estate from browser tabs (Fitt's law), to asking SDL to link against libadwaita to draw window decorations. And this is the worst part, they not only do not want to accommodate their users, but also ignore the developers - those who wish to integrate with and therefore empower the free desktop ecosystem. Apple can get away with all of that because they're a trillion dollar company, but unlike Apple, the power of the open source community doesn't stem from an unimaginable pile of cash, but from interoperability and cooperation.
aktuel 2y ago
Desktops shouldn't be simple. They should work reliably and predictably like every good procduct. Everyone wants something simple until they want to do something that's not supported because it's not a simple use case. So unless you are a very simple person who always only does very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life (i envy you), a simple desktop is not for you.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >They should work reliably and predictably like every good procduct. So you're saying they should be simple? >unless you are a very simple person who always only does very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life Considering the massive popularity of MacOS and iOS which all mandate the same reliable and predictable user experience on every Apple device, most people are "very simple" persons who "do very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life". The power user paradigm of old that expose all the knobs and dials and levers there are to pleasure us simply does not appeal to the commons.
  - Defletter 2y ago
    Haven't you heard that the terminal is the most simple and efficient interface? Obviously everyone should just use terminals for their tasks /s
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      It is conceptually very simple and it pays to learn it.
      - Defletter 2y ago
        Except for most ordinary use cases. I guarantee you that, if someone downloads a compressed file, they'll find it infinitely easier to right click and select the "Extract here" option than whipping out some tar command. The linux-brain has people convinced that the layman would prefer the latter if only they would listen.
replete 2y ago
Definitely going to take this for a spin. BSD has been appealing to me for a long time, but the driver situation is wanting. In theory, a more integrated BSD like experience but with Linux kernel/drivers? Interesting!
theandrewbailey 2y ago
> Chimera supports many different configurations, leaving the user free to carve up their disk as they please — but does not support having /usr on a separate partition. On systems with both a hard drive and ssd (since on most distros /(s)bin and /lib* are sym links into /usr, most binaries are ultimately in /usr), my recent preference is to have the hard drive as / and ssd as /usr (then sym link or bind mount there as needed for things that could use the speed, like Steam). Am I the only one who thinks this way or am I way off?
- jackhalford 2y ago
  I don’t think of ssd and hdd for different parts of the filesystem. Rather / is a zfs/btrfs/bcachefs pool, and the ssd is added as a read cache to the pool Edit: it can also be a write cache but that’s more tricky, usually with a battery backed hardware raid it’s fine
imiric 2y ago
I appreciate what the Chimera authors are trying to achieve, but I would never consider going back to a distro that doesn't support atomic upgrades and seamless rollbacks, ala NixOS, Guix, etc. Packaging issues and incompatibilities are inevitable and impossible to prevent. Giving users the peace of mind that their system can always be reverted to a known working state is priceless, and something all operating systems should have. Making the system configuration declarative, reproducible builds, etc., would also be a bonus, but I wouldn't consider those hard requirements. I realize snapshots are a feature of some filesystems, which partially addresses this, but I would rather have this feature at the OS level.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  Fair enough. It is worth talking about how the Chimera Linux package manager works though. There is a file, /etc/apk/world that lists all the packages you have explicitly installed. When you add and remove packages, all it really does is change this list. Then it runs the solver and installs the package versions and dependencies required. You could move /etc/apk/world to another system and it would result in exactly the same set of packages between the two. Replacing /etc/apk/world to any previous state will “roll back” the system to that point. The package manger is transactional and apk commands either entirely succeed or fail. When I was testing Chimera in a VM, I ran out of drive space during an install of dozens of packages. The system was left in the same state as it was in before I ran apk. Cports itself is very declarative. Also, unlike most distros (including Arch) there is no separate install and update step. Other than the kernel, and maybe a couple others, nothing runs after the package install. Finally, Chimera Linux is aiming for stateless /var and /etc. Chimera Linux may be closer to what you want than you expect.
  - imiric 2y ago
    That's good to know, thanks. > Replacing /etc/apk/world to any previous state will “roll back” the system to that point. That's not quite what rollback means, though. Say that a new version of a display driver crashes my display server. With NixOS I could reboot into a previous configuration and have a working system in no time. If I have to keep track of /etc/apk/world changes myself, and boot into recovery mode or chroot to fix this manually, it takes time, effort and frustration I'd rather not have to deal with. Stateless /var is a good idea, but I'm not sure it would address this problem. In any case, I'll definitely keep an eye on Chimera. We need more distros that are not derivatives, and try to do something different. Wishing the team the best of luck, and hoping the project succeeds!
dchuk 2y ago
“Simplified desktop”…go to their website, literally no pictures of the desktop interface (at least on mobile). Everyone who makes software, always follow this formula on your homepage: clearly state what problem exists without your software, show your software, clearly state what problems go away with your software, then describe its actual features
- Arnavion 2y ago
  The screenshot you're asking for will be indistinguishable from any GNOME desktop screenshot you find on GNOME's website. Before giving advice it would be worth understanding the subject matter. It's a new OS, not a new desktop shell.
  - Rochus 2y ago
    The title statement "works toward a simplified desktop" makes the authors' focus pretty clear, so it's just fair to look for screenshots. It would be disappointing if it was just the same as GNOME.
    - q66 2y ago
      well that's just what the LWN article states, the project itself does not do that anywhere the desktops on chimera are standard (gnome/kde/xfce and a variety of compositors and window managers available for installation)
    - Arch-TK 2y ago
      Probably meant as "Desktop OS" not "Desktop UI". A Linux distribution meant for desktop use as opposed to server use.
      - Rochus 2y ago
        To quote G.B. Shaw: "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place"
- 2y ago
bryanlarsen 2y ago
It's the userland that always sends me back to Linux. I've tried BSD a few times, but there are enough gnu flags in my muscle memory for command line utilities that it's painful.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  This is an honest question. Do you have any examples? I have always been a GNU user but have been using Chimera Linux. I ran into differences with ‘sed’ and read about a regex difference with “find’. Really curious what flags other people are using.
  - nerflad 2y ago
    one sticking point for GNU users can be that BSD utils are more strict about positional order of e.g filename parameter and input options. rm ~/foo -rf || rm -rf ~/foo I was forced to get used to BSD syntax when I switched to MacOS but now I prefer it...
    - LeFantome 2y ago
      Thank you for the answer! Even as a GNU user, I never would never have thought to put filenames anywhere but the end. I mean, with wildcards, it could be any number of filenames. You are right though, that is an important difference.
      - syene 2y ago
        It’s unnatural to put the flags after the command. But sometimes I remember I’ve to use a flag after I’ve entered the input; other times, I notice a flag’s omission after executing it, and Control + P puts my cursor at the end, after the input.
jacobtomlinson 2y ago
I assumed this was a post about ChimeraOS, a gaming focused Linux distro, but it seems this is talking about a totally different Linux distribution with the same name. Chimera OS: https://chimeraos.org/ https://chimeraos.org/ Chimera Linux: https://chimera-linux.org/ https://chimera-linux.org/
- linfocito 2y ago
  From the FAQ (https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-about-chimeraos https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-about-chimeraos) “The system also has no relation to ChimeraOS, besides the unfortunate name similarity. ChimeraOS used to be called GamerOS and renamed itself to ChimeraOS later; however, at this point Chimera Linux was already in public development with its name in place.”
replete 2y ago
Had a go at booting this in a VM. The ISOs apparently have some issues, meaning you can't just boot in a VM and have a poke around...
- c-c-c-c-c 2y ago
  It's stance on keeping it's own reimplementations of parts of systemd as a dependency sadly rules it out for me. It would be a great choice for a linux jail on freebsd.
snvzz 2y ago
I like that they support RISC-V, thus showing an understanding of the direction of the industry.
pjmlp 2y ago
And this is why, eventually one gets tired of all reboots, and endless variants on Distrowatch, get a computer at BestBuy, Mediamarkt, Dixons, or whatever is the local chain, run GNU/Linux on a VM, and be done with it.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  The Chimera Linux team strives to downplay the lack of GNU because they do not want the politics. For me, one of my favourite things about Chimera Linux is that it is both everything I want from Linux and 100% immune to being called GNU/Linux. Chimera Linux: no Glibc, no GNU utils, no GCC, and no Systemd. As a user, I am finally free. We should consider “freedom from being labelled GNU/Linux” as “the 5th freedom”.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Basically, had it not been for AT&T lawsuit, or Microsoft losing interest with either Xenix or Windows NT/POSIX subsystem, and Linux would hardly matter. You're pointing out, in other words, that UNIX/POSIX is what matters, regardless of the package.
LeFantome 2y ago
It has been amazing to read in this thread how many people seem to think that “nothing new in the UI” equals “nothing interesting about this distro”. It really highlights how the relationship with computers is changing. The goals of Chimera Linux have little at all to do with the UI. In my view, Chimera Linux is highly innovative and disruptive. Yet, some people can look at it and genuinely wonder what it does differently or what the point of it is at all. Fascinating.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hackshack 2y ago
A pleasant surprise - the KDE version works "out of the box" on my 2015 MacBook 12" (A1534). This is an unusual machine, and Linux distros tend not to support its hardware out of the box. Chimera even sees the internal SSD, traditionally a stumbling point to installing Linux on this machine.

115 points by linfocito 2y ago

never heard of it, but interesting setup. FreeBSD user land with Linux and Gnome/Wayland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_Linux

codetrotter 2y ago
For a while there was also a distro project working on the opposite direction. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. An official Debian GNU distribution using the kernel of FreeBSD instead of the Linux kernel. https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD Development of Debian GNU/kFreeBSD officially terminated July 2023 due to lack of interest and volunteers. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/07/msg00176.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/07/msg00176.html
codetrotter 2y ago
Another interesting, currently ongoing, mixture of Linux world and FreeBSD is NixBSD. A NixOS fork with a FreeBSD kernel. https://github.com/nixos-bsd/nixbsd https://github.com/nixos-bsd/nixbsd I came across it earlier today.
- bpye 2y ago
  It’s not mentioned in the readme, but from a quick peruse it looks like that project also has some support for OpenBSD which is very neat.
speakspokespok 2y ago
One of the side benefits of using the FreeBSD userland is all the flags will be consistent regardless of the of program. ‘-l’ or ‘-a’ are going to do what you expect irrespective of the command. It’s nice, and I used free for along while. I still know BSD syntax better than the SystemV equivalent.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  I have also used the GNU tools but the BSD ones are winning me over. Another benefit is consistency with macOS I suppose. It also uses the BSD userland.
d3Xt3r 2y ago
Why single out GNOME? There are also KDE images, and of course, plenty of other DEs and WMs in the repos which you can always install.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  The project founder uses GNOME and it says that GNOME is the desktop in various places including the project website and Wikipedia. Other options are available though and there is even a KDE live bootable image. I use Chimera Linux with KDE.
rbanffy 2y ago
There used to be a Debian with a GNU userland on top of a FreeBSD kernel. Debian GNU/KFreeBSD, I think.

tetrisgm 2y ago

Simplified desktop doesn’t very clearly map to “very text oriented, barebones Linux UI“. I was expecting something more like the ststem76 Pop OS kinda thing when I read this.

ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
Niri would be a simplified desktop to me https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri
- PixelForg 2y ago
  I really wanted to switch to this but unfortunately it doesn't have support for Xwayland scaling :( in case youre using 4k, On Wayland only KDE and Gnome seem to have gotten this working.
  - discardedrefuse 2y ago
    If you're on KDE check out Karousel. It's a KDE Kwin script that does this type of scrollable tiling right inside KDE. Works great on my ultrawide monitor. https://store.kde.org/p/2045724 https://store.kde.org/p/2045724
  - omnimus 2y ago
    There is also PaperWM https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM it works pretty well. I would be using it if i didnt switch to Cosmic.
- desireco42 2y ago
  Wow... love it, thanks for posting.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  Cheers, that looks nice.
- christophilus 2y ago
  Niri is my daily driver. I absolutely love it. Couldn’t switch back to any other approach to window management.

zb3 2y ago

I hope Google will make Android more desktop friendly so it becomes the real alternative to the current status quo.

skydhash 2y ago
We could have something like android in the linux world if manufacturers did the minimum to support Linux (which already accept binary blobs). But they also want to push their (bloated) apps alongside the driver.
axelthegerman 2y ago
I hope not
XorNot 2y ago
I don't. Google's Android support has just slowly eroded away all the Linux benefits with layers and layers of user hostile "security" without the benefits (i.e. backing up my phone to Google doesn't mean a new phone will one-click recover itself to how it was).
discardedrefuse 2y ago
They have ChromeOS Flex which runs on normal PCs and works fine.

mig39 2y ago

So simplified I couldn't figure out how to even login, let alone install it. I think if they're aiming for simplicity, start with the installer. And no, "read the instructions" isn't making it simpler.

akdor1154 2y ago
Simplicity in implementation is not necessarily the same as simplicity in usability. Both are desirable, but if there's a trade-off between the two, then I reckon it's quite justifiable to prioritise the former.
- rollcat 2y ago
  Try installing OpenBSD then. Even though the installer runs in text mode, it holds your hand thru a standard setup, all the way to a graphical login. The basic X11 desktop is a part of the base system (as opposed to packages/ports). The installer also supports a bunch of advanced features, like scripting an automated install. OpenBSD is also some of the cleanest and simplest code I've ever read.
  - eth0up 2y ago
    Maybe it seems a stupid question, but it's an honest one: why openbsd rather than freebsd? I tried freebsd when Debian integrated systemd. Being neither savvy or intelligent, I had trouble with the ports system and installations were taking hours for small applications. I gave up. I've always had a nagging desire to try again, but poor health has discouraged me from those kinds of learning curves. I recently left Debian again and use Void, with Opensuse on a separate drive for purposes of maintaining some competency and familiarity with systemd (just in case...). Anyway, I'd appreciate your input on the various BSDs. As I understand, recent funding suggests it may be growing and will remain viable for a long time, which was, however relevant or not, a concern for me. Edit: I might also mention that I gave serious consideration to Chimera before settling on Void, for similar reasons of learning curves. Of all distros, I had determined it would either be Void or Chimera and nothing else - or BSD.

walrus01 2y ago

[flagged]

TacticalCoder 2y ago
> Surely, 2025 will be the year of the Linux desktop! I don't know if that joke was more funny in the late nineties when Linux was basically nowhere (I was already using Desktop Linux back then though) or if it's more funny today, when Linux powers the entire real world. I mean: Linux powers 500 of the Top 500 supercomputers, billions (if not tens of billions) of devices, rockets (SpaceX uses Linux extensively), servers all around the world, routers in every single household or near that etc. Basically: Linux powers everything besides the desktop. Somehow I think there's some irony in thinking that joke is still funny in the same way it was funny in 1998 or so.
- Fnoord 2y ago
  It is a reoccurring joke, aka a meme (before internet memes were internet memes). If you liked it, it builds on repetition and nostalgia. If you disliked it, you won't like when repeated. On top of that, whether you liked it or not it may get boring. Nowadays, it is out of date. Reality surpassed it: 99,9%+ of all smartphones is powered by either Linux or Unix (macOS). Are these desktops, with a pointer device? No. But they are GUI clients with touch UI. The Windows version? Too little, too late. Same counts for Linux desktop: too little, too late. If it ever wants to overtake Windows or macOS it has to be substantially better. This is why some FOSS people dislike efforts like Cygwin, SFU, and successors (such as WSL). It allows Windows to use unique utilities which were tailored for FOSS OSes.
- ThrowawayB7 2y ago
  It's the "...on the desktop", i.e. that the general public would have a stated preference for Linux because it served them better than proprietary OSes, putting their makers out of business, that makes it funny. Linus even said "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." in a NYT interview back in '03. Much like "640k ought to be enough for anyone." and "There will be a market for only 5 computers in the world." (only in this case Linus is actually on record saying it), it's a testament to the overweening hubris of the early FOSS movement. The things that you list matter only to a small number of nerds and the general public wouldn't care a bit if they were all replaced by FreeBSD, Fuchsia, or TempleOS tomorrow. Even for the consumer applications, Linux is being primarily chosen just because the hardware manufacturer didn't want to pay money to license another OS to benefit their profit margins as much as anything else. So, yeah, the joke is still funny and it looks like it will be funny for the next few decades too.

okanat 2y ago

[flagged]

SoftTalker 2y ago

Why not just use a BSD?

freeone3000 2y ago
Linux driver support. There’s a ton of wifi drivers and the like that are supported under linux but not under BSD.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Obscure driver support doesn’t seem like it fits with a “simplified” Linux but maybe…
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    The list of hardware supported by the Linux kernel is not exactly “obscure”.
  - Klonoar 2y ago
    Wifi is not “obscure”.
LeFantome 2y ago
The obvious answer is to build on the Linux kernel. That means more extensive desktop hardware support. That means better desktop software compatibility. That means robust support for OCI containers. But Chimera goes beyond the BSD model in several ways. For example, it aims to bring the Systemd feature-set while avoiding Systemd. It also uses pipewire and Wayland. As mentioned elsewhere, the Chimera Linux founder also found the FreeBSD packaging system to be lacking. Chimera Linux also aims for stateless /etc and /var. There is a lot more to Chimera Linux than the userland.
- krupan 2y ago
  Ok, so why use any BSD components then?

mrbluecoat 2y ago

If it was "born from unhappiness with the status quo" why not join forces with Void Linux?

MaximilianEmel 2y ago
The creator used to be a Void contributor.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  The were the PPC maintainer. Which is why PPC is a tier one arch for Chimera Linux from the start.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    Interestingly enough there are almost zero reasonable PPC computers one can get.
    - teruakohatu 2y ago
      At the PPC prices, you got to have a really good reason to want a PPC desktop. The TalosII cost nearly $10k for the base 2X 4-core Power9 CPU version, and another $5k to upgrade to the 22-core CPU version. https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html
- mrbluecoat 2y ago
  I see, thanks. https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relation-to-void-linux https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relat...
LeFantome 2y ago
Void Linux is part of the status quo they were unhappy with. Chimera Linux started off as a rewrite of the Void source packaging system. One of the complaints was using shell scripts for package templates. Chimera cports uses Python. Cports builds the binary packages (for apk 3).

oguz-ismail 2y ago

> Chimera's recommended desktop is GNOME But that's the opposite of a simplified desktop

rsolva 2y ago
GNOME? It is super simple. I have used Fedora/GNOME on my elderly family members laptops for many years now, and they just get it. Even the ones who came from Windows 10. The hours I spend on support has dropped significantly. Windows is such a hassel, and its desktop design philosophy is just not that great for casual users.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  I can't think of a single thing in Gnome that is somehow better than Windows, in terms of usability for beginners.
  - rsolva 2y ago
    My elderly family members beg to differ ;) So far, my experience with people above 60 is that they quickly understand how to find and navigate between the apps they use every day. The ones coming from Windows adapt suprisingly fast, and are very pleased that the fullscreen popups and forced updates are gone. Shortly before I moved them over to Fedora, they started developing a fear of using the computer because they never knew when it would 'lock them out' because the screen was filled with a fullscreen Office365 ad that had no obvious exit button.
- rollcat 2y ago
  IMHO, GNOME is not simple, it's dumbed down. They've obviously tried to copy Apple where it suited them, but missed on a whole bunch of important details, like a unified menu system, a powerful terminal emulator, desktop icons (omg), while badly aping all of the worst parts - from requiring 4 clicks to shutdown/reboot (where macOS requires 2), thru a mostly useless top bar that steals the real estate from browser tabs (Fitt's law), to asking SDL to link against libadwaita to draw window decorations. And this is the worst part, they not only do not want to accommodate their users, but also ignore the developers - those who wish to integrate with and therefore empower the free desktop ecosystem. Apple can get away with all of that because they're a trillion dollar company, but unlike Apple, the power of the open source community doesn't stem from an unimaginable pile of cash, but from interoperability and cooperation.

aktuel 2y ago

Desktops shouldn't be simple. They should work reliably and predictably like every good procduct. Everyone wants something simple until they want to do something that's not supported because it's not a simple use case. So unless you are a very simple person who always only does very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life (i envy you), a simple desktop is not for you.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>They should work reliably and predictably like every good procduct. So you're saying they should be simple? >unless you are a very simple person who always only does very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life Considering the massive popularity of MacOS and iOS which all mandate the same reliable and predictable user experience on every Apple device, most people are "very simple" persons who "do very simple things and lead a uniquely simple life". The power user paradigm of old that expose all the knobs and dials and levers there are to pleasure us simply does not appeal to the commons.
- Defletter 2y ago
  Haven't you heard that the terminal is the most simple and efficient interface? Obviously everyone should just use terminals for their tasks /s
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    It is conceptually very simple and it pays to learn it.
    - Defletter 2y ago
      Except for most ordinary use cases. I guarantee you that, if someone downloads a compressed file, they'll find it infinitely easier to right click and select the "Extract here" option than whipping out some tar command. The linux-brain has people convinced that the layman would prefer the latter if only they would listen.

replete 2y ago

Definitely going to take this for a spin. BSD has been appealing to me for a long time, but the driver situation is wanting. In theory, a more integrated BSD like experience but with Linux kernel/drivers? Interesting!

theandrewbailey 2y ago

> Chimera supports many different configurations, leaving the user free to carve up their disk as they please — but does not support having /usr on a separate partition. On systems with both a hard drive and ssd (since on most distros /(s)bin and /lib* are sym links into /usr, most binaries are ultimately in /usr), my recent preference is to have the hard drive as / and ssd as /usr (then sym link or bind mount there as needed for things that could use the speed, like Steam). Am I the only one who thinks this way or am I way off?

jackhalford 2y ago
I don’t think of ssd and hdd for different parts of the filesystem. Rather / is a zfs/btrfs/bcachefs pool, and the ssd is added as a read cache to the pool Edit: it can also be a write cache but that’s more tricky, usually with a battery backed hardware raid it’s fine

imiric 2y ago

I appreciate what the Chimera authors are trying to achieve, but I would never consider going back to a distro that doesn't support atomic upgrades and seamless rollbacks, ala NixOS, Guix, etc. Packaging issues and incompatibilities are inevitable and impossible to prevent. Giving users the peace of mind that their system can always be reverted to a known working state is priceless, and something all operating systems should have. Making the system configuration declarative, reproducible builds, etc., would also be a bonus, but I wouldn't consider those hard requirements. I realize snapshots are a feature of some filesystems, which partially addresses this, but I would rather have this feature at the OS level.

LeFantome 2y ago
Fair enough. It is worth talking about how the Chimera Linux package manager works though. There is a file, /etc/apk/world that lists all the packages you have explicitly installed. When you add and remove packages, all it really does is change this list. Then it runs the solver and installs the package versions and dependencies required. You could move /etc/apk/world to another system and it would result in exactly the same set of packages between the two. Replacing /etc/apk/world to any previous state will “roll back” the system to that point. The package manger is transactional and apk commands either entirely succeed or fail. When I was testing Chimera in a VM, I ran out of drive space during an install of dozens of packages. The system was left in the same state as it was in before I ran apk. Cports itself is very declarative. Also, unlike most distros (including Arch) there is no separate install and update step. Other than the kernel, and maybe a couple others, nothing runs after the package install. Finally, Chimera Linux is aiming for stateless /var and /etc. Chimera Linux may be closer to what you want than you expect.
- imiric 2y ago
  That's good to know, thanks. > Replacing /etc/apk/world to any previous state will “roll back” the system to that point. That's not quite what rollback means, though. Say that a new version of a display driver crashes my display server. With NixOS I could reboot into a previous configuration and have a working system in no time. If I have to keep track of /etc/apk/world changes myself, and boot into recovery mode or chroot to fix this manually, it takes time, effort and frustration I'd rather not have to deal with. Stateless /var is a good idea, but I'm not sure it would address this problem. In any case, I'll definitely keep an eye on Chimera. We need more distros that are not derivatives, and try to do something different. Wishing the team the best of luck, and hoping the project succeeds!

dchuk 2y ago

“Simplified desktop”…go to their website, literally no pictures of the desktop interface (at least on mobile). Everyone who makes software, always follow this formula on your homepage: clearly state what problem exists without your software, show your software, clearly state what problems go away with your software, then describe its actual features

Arnavion 2y ago
The screenshot you're asking for will be indistinguishable from any GNOME desktop screenshot you find on GNOME's website. Before giving advice it would be worth understanding the subject matter. It's a new OS, not a new desktop shell.
- Rochus 2y ago
  The title statement "works toward a simplified desktop" makes the authors' focus pretty clear, so it's just fair to look for screenshots. It would be disappointing if it was just the same as GNOME.
  - q66 2y ago
    well that's just what the LWN article states, the project itself does not do that anywhere the desktops on chimera are standard (gnome/kde/xfce and a variety of compositors and window managers available for installation)
  - Arch-TK 2y ago
    Probably meant as "Desktop OS" not "Desktop UI". A Linux distribution meant for desktop use as opposed to server use.
    - Rochus 2y ago
      To quote G.B. Shaw: "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place"
2y ago

bryanlarsen 2y ago

It's the userland that always sends me back to Linux. I've tried BSD a few times, but there are enough gnu flags in my muscle memory for command line utilities that it's painful.

LeFantome 2y ago
This is an honest question. Do you have any examples? I have always been a GNU user but have been using Chimera Linux. I ran into differences with ‘sed’ and read about a regex difference with “find’. Really curious what flags other people are using.
- nerflad 2y ago
  one sticking point for GNU users can be that BSD utils are more strict about positional order of e.g filename parameter and input options. rm ~/foo -rf || rm -rf ~/foo I was forced to get used to BSD syntax when I switched to MacOS but now I prefer it...
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    Thank you for the answer! Even as a GNU user, I never would never have thought to put filenames anywhere but the end. I mean, with wildcards, it could be any number of filenames. You are right though, that is an important difference.
    - syene 2y ago
      It’s unnatural to put the flags after the command. But sometimes I remember I’ve to use a flag after I’ve entered the input; other times, I notice a flag’s omission after executing it, and Control + P puts my cursor at the end, after the input.

jacobtomlinson 2y ago

I assumed this was a post about ChimeraOS, a gaming focused Linux distro, but it seems this is talking about a totally different Linux distribution with the same name. Chimera OS: https://chimeraos.org/ https://chimeraos.org/ Chimera Linux: https://chimera-linux.org/ https://chimera-linux.org/

linfocito 2y ago
From the FAQ (https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-about-chimeraos https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-about-chimeraos) “The system also has no relation to ChimeraOS, besides the unfortunate name similarity. ChimeraOS used to be called GamerOS and renamed itself to ChimeraOS later; however, at this point Chimera Linux was already in public development with its name in place.”

replete 2y ago

Had a go at booting this in a VM. The ISOs apparently have some issues, meaning you can't just boot in a VM and have a poke around...

c-c-c-c-c 2y ago
It's stance on keeping it's own reimplementations of parts of systemd as a dependency sadly rules it out for me. It would be a great choice for a linux jail on freebsd.

snvzz 2y ago

I like that they support RISC-V, thus showing an understanding of the direction of the industry.

pjmlp 2y ago

And this is why, eventually one gets tired of all reboots, and endless variants on Distrowatch, get a computer at BestBuy, Mediamarkt, Dixons, or whatever is the local chain, run GNU/Linux on a VM, and be done with it.

LeFantome 2y ago
The Chimera Linux team strives to downplay the lack of GNU because they do not want the politics. For me, one of my favourite things about Chimera Linux is that it is both everything I want from Linux and 100% immune to being called GNU/Linux. Chimera Linux: no Glibc, no GNU utils, no GCC, and no Systemd. As a user, I am finally free. We should consider “freedom from being labelled GNU/Linux” as “the 5th freedom”.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Basically, had it not been for AT&T lawsuit, or Microsoft losing interest with either Xenix or Windows NT/POSIX subsystem, and Linux would hardly matter. You're pointing out, in other words, that UNIX/POSIX is what matters, regardless of the package.

LeFantome 2y ago

It has been amazing to read in this thread how many people seem to think that “nothing new in the UI” equals “nothing interesting about this distro”. It really highlights how the relationship with computers is changing. The goals of Chimera Linux have little at all to do with the UI. In my view, Chimera Linux is highly innovative and disruptive. Yet, some people can look at it and genuinely wonder what it does differently or what the point of it is at all. Fascinating.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

hackshack 2y ago

A pleasant surprise - the KDE version works "out of the box" on my 2015 MacBook 12" (A1534). This is an unusual machine, and Linux distros tend not to support its hardware out of the box. Chimera even sees the internal SSD, traditionally a stumbling point to installing Linux on this machine.