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There's a lot of interesting stuff in here, but there's also a lot of garbage. Talking about the African American community in Chicago, but then using examples
by tedivm 2y ago
There's a lot of interesting stuff in here, but there's also a lot of garbage. Talking about the African American community in Chicago, but then using examples from LA to prove a point, is at best a horrible argument and at worst purposefully misleading.
I live in the Chicago South Side, in a neighborhood that is 99% black. I am not black. There are no pogroms happening here against people who aren't black, even if they do happen to own a business. This is just such a weird statement to have to make.
- shigawire 2y agoAs with most Chicago critics, there are valid points to be made but it often feels too gleeful.
- likeabatterycar 2y ago> I live in the Chicago South Side, in a neighborhood that is 99% black. I am not black. May I ask why? This seems like a deliberate choice. It is, at best, met with suspicion by other residents.
- readthenotes1 2y agoI'm pretty sure hen wasn't given a deliberate choice whether to be Black or not.
- likeabatterycar 2y ago> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Chicago is an extremely segregated city. In segregated cities, there is a nuanced thought process one must undergo to move into an area where you are considered an outsider. In Seattle for example, the tech community is overall reviled for having gentrified the Central District, where historically black areas were bulldozed to erect overpriced cardboard apartments for tech plebes. This is a legitimate question.
- pc86 2y agoThe reason you're being downvoted is because "Why are you living there?" can sound suspiciously like "You shouldn't be living there." It's also a leap to assume the black people living there are going to suspicious of him. You'd be horrified if a group of white people were "suspicious" of a black man living in their neighborhood and this should be no different. Another question is what will his answer do? How will your opinion of him change or be influence by his answer? Maybe he was born there. Maybe that's all he can afford. Maybe he found an apartment with a particular architectural style unique to that area he wants to live in. Maybe it's close to his friends, or close to his girlfriend, or not too close to his girlfriend, or close to his parents, or easy to get to work, or he often goes into central/southern IL or over to Indiana and doesn't want to drive through the city every time. There are literally hundreds of possible reasons.
- kasey_junk 2y agoIncluding, it’s a nice place to live!
- pc86 2y agoLet's not get crazy now /s
- Kon-Peki 2y agoIt’s probably worth pointing out that historically the majority of the wealthiest pockets of Chicago were on the south side. There are a lot of grand streets with magnificent homes, broad sidewalks with enough space for the tree canopies to develop nicely, etc. All that exists on the north side too, just not as frequently. And where it does it’s 2-3x more expensive. There’s a couple streets down in Kenwood that I don’t think have any equivalent on the north side though…
- somanyphotons 2y agoI'm pretty sure the question was about choice of location
- recursive 2y agoWhy not? Everyone has to live somewhere. If it wasn't there, it would be somewhere else.
- kasey_junk 2y agoI lived in a south side neighborhood that was >80% black and am white for nearly 20 years. I lived there for a variety of reasons that weren’t suspicious at all like price, location, commute, etc. my neighbors didn’t seem particularly suspicious of the decision…
- notinchicago 2y ago[flagged]
- kasey_junk 2y agoYou could check a map if you wanted to make up things to sound knowledgeable about the Southside of Chicago…
- cozzyd 2y agoThe only halfway charitable plausible explanation I can think of is that they're a Rock Island District commuter (who closes their eyes between stops)
- notinchicago 2y ago[flagged]
- kasey_junk 2y agoJust like you know they are adjacent?
- goat_whisperer 2y agoNot only are you making a lot of assumptions here, you have a woeful ignorance of Chicago neighborhoods but throw out names of neighborhoods like you're an expert (perhaps obtained from listening to Drill records or something). Also, Beverly is one of the most integrated neighborhoods in Chicago, and it isn't even majority Black, so not sure why you even mention it. It also isn't 'adjacent' to Bronzeville unless you ignore all of the neighborhoods between them.
- pc86 2y agoMost people who complain about gentrification have no idea what they're talking about, why should this comment be any different?
- notinchicago 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tedivm 2y agoAll of my neighbors seem to like me. The specific area I'm in has a 14% vacancy rate, so the people around here aren't worried about gentrification. I'm walking distance to the Metra. My wife has family in Indiana, and not having to drive through the entire city to see them was also a factor.
- goat_whisperer 2y agoI agree. That part was way off base.
- patio11 2y agoI could have quoted the roadshow verbatim in support of the point, but it felt tangential. The point is not “Chicago is on the precipice of a pogrom.” It is “political elites in Chicago’s African American community believe the community is impoverished in part because of extractive practices of vice entrepreneurs, and required as a condition of their political assent that Chicago keep equity ownership of a vice business in their community.” The point is a true one; this _really is_ what some community leaders believe. This belief _really is_ why Chicago is doing this program. > “Tonight is about a new opportunity on how to participate, about not just being a consumer but to be an owner,” Ald. Ronnie Mosley (21st Ward) said at the pulpit in front of the crowd of a couple hundred people. https://thetriibe.com/2025/01/chicagos-black-residents-can-invest-in-ballys-casino/ https://thetriibe.com/2025/01/chicagos-black-residents-can-i... There is much more support for that having actually been the sales pitch and political compromise there and elsewhere on the record. And yes, this is a belief with a long and storied history in American politics.
- gammarator 2y agoDo you, Patrick, believe that “Chicago’s African American community is impoverished in part because of extractive practices of vice entrepreneurs?” Phrasing it this way winks that you don’t think so, but perhaps I am misreading you. However, the conclusion of your article seems to be that Bally’s (a vice entrepreneur) is about to further impoverish them, this time under the guise of ownership but as usual with the support of the local political elites. So for consistency I think your answer should be “yes.” You’d make a bigger difference in your hometown by conveying this message directly to the folks being targeted, rather than the HN crowd.
- pchristensen 2y agoPatrick has mentioned several times lately that he writes for a broad audience, in a way that’s easy for people with influence to share. He didn’t write this essay for HN; it’s incidental that this article is posted here.
- lmm 2y ago
- dnissley 2y agoThe story plays them up too much, but such tensions definitely exist. They just rarely erupt to the surface. Here's a story that did happen in Chicago which I don't think corroborates the narrative, but does add some color to it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/business/beauty-store-race-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/business/beauty-store-rac...