8 ms·

Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch

315 points by CharlesW 2y ago

eleveriven 2y ago
Really interesting thing to visit I think... The fact that they’re constructing a 13th-century castle using only the techniques and tools of the period is also really cool.
ortusdux 2y ago
Tom Scott visited the site to try out their treadmill crane system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9v3m7Slv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9v3m7Slv8
bmelton 2y ago
Ruth Goodman has a phenomenal series about living in historic times on BBC. She's "lived" in several eras as early as back to the 1620s, and I've enjoyed literally all of them including the one she did from Guedelon, entitled Secrets of the Castle. Some of them are available for streaming, some appear lost to time (no pun intended) but this one appears to be available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72jhKwankOiwI5zt6lC3eQtsQDxOaN_g https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72jhKwankOiwI5zt6lC3... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_Castle
- Syonyk 2y ago
  The entire "BBC Farm series" is worth watching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series Ruth Goodman's shows are fun to watch, because regardless of what she's doing, how covered in grime she is, what era she's living and working in, she exudes such a sense of joy, and a general giddy, "I cannot believe that I get to do this as my job!" attitude. It's like watching the last couple seasons of Mythbusters. There's no doubt that they are having a grand time of it.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    Could you expand on the last point? Was there a change from the initial seasons? I have only casually watched the show, but everyone seemed to be having a great time, just doing weird engineering things with someone else footing the bill.
    - Syonyk 2y ago
      The first couple seasons were Jamie and Adam, with a fairly minimal film crew, "doing stuff." Going to random stores to get things and talk to people, and generally having a good time doing it on a shoestring budget. The show largely focused on the process - how the rigs were built. What sort of small scale testing was done in the shop. The tools and processes they used to test this sort of stuff. The mid-seasons added the build team (Keri, Grant (RIP) and Tory), and started what was, in my opinion, an unwelcome turn to "mainline television." They started adding more myths, more animations to explain things, and a lot of "Here's what we're going to do after the commercial!" and "Now that we're back from the commercial, here's what we've done!" sort of repeated filler - to the point that there was some subreddit that made versions without the filler and repeated content. It was a lot more "Here's the myth, here's the test" sort of TV, and mostly ignored the process. The build team got along well enough for the first few seasons of it, but towards the later seasons with them, the tension and dislike between various people was obvious even on air. Kari and Tory couldn't stand each other, and the "pranks" on Tory went from "entertaining" to "genuinely mean." The last few seasons were back to Adam and Jamie, focusing on the build, except with a budget and name recognition that allowed them to do basically anything they wanted - and you could tell they were loving it. I know there's some contract drama and such behind the scenes as well, but the above is how it felt watching it. The last two seasons are easily my favorites, because they'd worked out how to do the show well, and they were able to test a lot of impressive-scale things that wouldn't have been an option earlier in the show.
      - gradus_ad 2y ago
        Huh? I did a quick search and everything I can find says the relationship among the 3 build team members was very close and positive, that they were all close friends. They went on to do a show together on Netflix. Maybe some of the later episodes give the impression that there were tensions but I don't see anything attesting to that.
- atombender 2y ago
  Big fan of the British farm series, which is fantastic, and I love Ruth Goodman and the rest of the gang. I've seen all the farm ones, but somehow I missed this show. Thanks for the tip, this looks exciting!
- mxfh 2y ago
  The Experimental archaeology wikipedia article also has a quite exhaustive list on other sites and representation of the topic in popular culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology#Examp...
- bluGill 2y ago
  I just watched the first, and I'm compelled to think that it looks like building with 19th century tools as if the 13th century. Some of it is accurate (to what I know), but in other places I keep thinking that the tool in question either didn't exist, or would have been too expensive to use when a much cheaper alternative existed. In the 19th century mass production was starting and, but it wasn't until the late part that quality steel would have been available in quantity (a little steel would have come from refining iron ore, but most would have been iron). Iron doesn't harden like steel and so the hardening process they showed the blacksmith doing would have been questionable for tools. (though maybe they would have paid for expensive steel in stone cutting - I don't know) They did get hardening wrong - the yellow color is about tempering which is done after hardening. A blacksmith would know this difference, but probably couldn't explain it to the camera and just gave up. Maybe a castle would have paid for steel tools, but I question if they could get it (any historian know more)? There were a number tools they used of iron that I suspect would have been wood instead. The wagons seemed to have some advances that I don't think existed yet. Hard to tell because they don't show the wagons in detail, but I've read just enough about wagon development to suspect those were too advanced. It appears they were using iron hammers on those stone chisels - that is iron wrapped around a wood handle - I'd expect wood mallets would be used instead. Why use expensive iron when a good wood head works just as well (or maybe better) I also question if saws would have been available in that quantity. I believe they existed, though I'd expect a lot more work would have been done cutting to size with an axe type tool. I also suspect bronze wood tools would have been used - but here I don't know what would have been available in 13th century France. They showed clothing - but unfortunately (as they admit) their sources are garments saints wore and those were preserved. That feels like looking at the suit Ronald Regan wore in office (something I expect would be preserved in a museum) and completely missing that common people in the 1980s probably were wearing blue jeans for labor, or in an office job they would have ditched the formal jacket. Worse would be preserving a bridesmaid dress (again, something I wouldn't be surprised to see preserved), but young girls probably were wearing blue jeans in 1980 except for those situations. This is something historians often lament - we get a lot of information on the rulers and priest classes - but little information on how the common person lived. They also had a lot of horses. I would expect oxen to haul the wagons. They are slower, but much cheaper than a horse and work as well. Perhaps better given the state of yokes in those days.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mobymoney 2y ago
Who is paying forty master builders? Some billionaire probably.
- OfficeChad 2y ago
  [dead]
- number6 2y ago
  Interestingly not: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Guyot https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Guyot The son of a small business owner developed a passion for history, historic preservation, and horses from a young age. Trained in the military as a competition rider, he opened a riding stable at the Château de Valençay in the Indre department in 1972. In 1975, Guyot and his brother Jacques, who was four years younger, purchased the Château de La Roche in the Sologne region, and in 1979, they acquired the dilapidated Château de Saint-Fargeau in the Yonne department for a minimal amount. After failing with a "high culture" festival, Guyot succeeded in financing the castle's restoration through large historical spectacles involving the local population. The castle grounds also house a collection of old steam locomotives. In the mid-1990s, he conceived the Guédelon project: since 1997, about 60 employees and 200-300 annual volunteers have been building a small fortress in 13th-century style, located 40 kilometers southwest of Auxerre - using exclusively medieval techniques. The planned construction time is 25 years. This project has also become financially self-sustaining.
- nestorD 2y ago
  France is not big on billionaires pet project... Also, a lot of the hard work is done by volunteers!
  - maigret 2y ago
    Many rich people (French and not French) own nice French castles. Some very expensively renovated. But they are often not interested in medieval castles. In the kind of projects documented here, the journey is the goal. I'm not even sure they really want to complete it, when something is done there is always a next thing to do. People spend time there for the community, the craft, the connection to elements and history.
mkaic 2y ago
This reminded me of Bishop's Castle in Colorado, USA — an incredible project built almost entirely by one man (who sadly died last year) working on it nonstop for 40 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Castle
- bwb 2y ago
  I visited this site once with some friends on a road trip... the guy building it (Bishop) started screaming the N-word at some black bikers and then calmly told them he wasn't racist and made some long rant about the government. We split very quickly as the dude was racist and crazy.
  - slipperybeluga 2y ago
    [dead]
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    Sounds like some Terry Davis level differences.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      a physical manifestation of TempleOS in castle form. weird and intriguing... but make no mistake: also weird
  - mkaic 2y ago
    Damn, I had no idea. That's really unfortunate.
  - ThinkBeat 2y ago
    It is such a severe accusation to make. Esp since the guy is dead, and cannot possibly address it. It is difficult however. I understand the need to warn people.
    - Salgat 2y ago
wiredfool 2y ago
This is well worth a visit if you're remotely near the area. We visited a few years back, and the kids thought it might be worth going back for a second day. One bit of interest -- if constructed back in the 1300s, it would have probably taken 4 years or so. Funding is the biggest difference, historically it would have been built from a rich patron's pockets with no desire to wait 25 years for the protection and image it would provide.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  Another important difference is that in the 1300s the overwhelming majority of Europe's population were farmers. Sure, they did a lot of things besides farming, but you could get a lot of workers for cheap during summer and winter when they weren't needed on the fields.
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    Speaking of farmers I've read here and there that sometimes getting skilled workers in the trades you want was a real problem. So if you want a fitted stone building in a place where buildings are only wattle and dub or rocks and mud it might take a lot of wheedling to get the guys you need to take the gig.
    - pmontra 2y ago
      Nothing changed. Getting skilled workers in the trades you want is still a real problem. I'm learning to do more things myself because of that.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Note that here they are using "square" for the face of the walls, but the inside are just whatever they can fit. Less skill needed for the bulk of the stone. Square in quotes because they are not very close, but still a more or less flat sides for out, up, and down. The doors and windows have much better quality stone with a much nicer finish - good tolerances matter here so your door/window fits (though the window probably was just open air or a shutter)
jccooper 2y ago
They used to keep copies of their really detailed newsletter on the website. Seems to have disappeared. But the last time archive.org saw it is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20201030183911/https://www.guedelon.fr/en/newsletter-backcopies_99.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201030183911/https://www.guede... Dunno if they still keep up the newsletter (there's a signup form) in the same manner.
surfingdino 2y ago
Wow. I love this! Not least because this is so incomprehensible to the British property developers on so many levels...
davio 2y ago
They tried making a castle inspired by this near Branson, Missouri that failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_Medieval_Fortress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_Medieval_Fortress
- pianoben 2y ago
  To this day, the best random road-trip discovery of my life. What an amazing place that was! Bummer that it went under so quickly.
emarthinsen 2y ago
This is great. We need to keep these building techniques alive - or, at least, documented. There is always going to be a need for restoration reasons, but I'd like to see some of the old techniques become mainstream again. There are century-old structures that we can tour, but in another century, there will be no modern buildings still standing.
- Swizec 2y ago
  > but in another century, there will be no modern buildings still standing You sure? Many modern buildings are already 100 years old and in active use. Empire State Building, for example, was built in 1930. Chrysler Building is from 1928. White House is from 1800. I think we’ll be fine. Percentage wise we might end up keeping more modern buildings than we did of the very old ones. My mom’s socialist style block of flats (in Slovenia) is from 1962 – 63 years old – and people keep living here and maintaining the structure just fine. Can easily imagine it sticking around for a long while yet.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > White House is from 1800. The facade perhaps, but not the inside which dates to c. 1950: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Any building that is in active use needs to get major remodels every 30-50 years, and less major remodels every 5-10. The whitehouse has had significant changes since 1950, though not to the level of the 1950 changes.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    My parent's stick built tract house is 60 years old and basically fine. Buildings last pretty much indefinitely as long as they are maintained.
    - 2y ago
bwb 2y ago
I got to visit this a few years ago, and it was amazing. I can't wait to go back and take my son :)
fsagx 2y ago
Anyone who's been there -- How would you recommend getting there from Paris without a car? the closest train station I saw was 25km.
- frutiger 2y ago
  In keeping with the theme - on horse or foot.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Foot. Horses are for the rich, and castle builders wouldn't have been rich. Well the head stone mason might have been special enough to ride the master's horse once in a while. A horse eats a lot of food (even on days when you don't use it!) Most people would have walked. Saddles were not near as advances these days. Wagons would have had terrible suspension (and the roads not very good) so even the wagon drivers would have walked. A human can walk farther in a day than a horse can. The horse can run fast with a heavy load, but otherwise isn't worth it. Most likely they would have used oxen not a horse to haul the wagons.
- ucarion 2y ago
  You could rent a car out of Auxerre, but don't count on being able to get by in rural l'Yonne without one.
- newsuser 2y ago
  Haven't tried it, but it seems you could get, within 6 km, to Saint-Saveur-de-Puisaye - on bus 861 (need to call them) from Auxerre Saint-Gervais which is reachable by train from Paris.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  I hitchhike all the time in France and it works great, locals are usually nice and I never wait more than 10 mins (but I’m french so IDK how it would work without the native language)
  - martin_a 2y ago
u-Squared 2y ago
the more you learn about cybersecurity, the more you would want to live there
eniac111 2y ago
We have a similar project in Bulgaria, but it's a huge ponzy scheme
lo_zamoyski 2y ago
Stobnica Castle[0] is still being built, but not using medieval methods. [0] https://stobnica.com/?lang=en https://stobnica.com/?lang=en
barrettondricka 2y ago
Cool. Does anybody have the same tool but better? Like, surely someone already made a sandbox that is not a fullblown VM. Docker probably.
hsuduebc2 2y ago
The project that secretly every man hearth craves.
- sylario 2y ago
  Totaly, and I can attest that kids around me still love castles and big things in general.
- bluGill 2y ago
  I'm not sure if I crave that or https://youtu.be/Cn-sQL2hO1o?feature=shared https://youtu.be/Cn-sQL2hO1o?feature=shared
mproud 2y ago
Where they say the site is closed on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, my brain immmeidately thought they meant the website, and I couldn’t understand how that might be plausible!
- eutropia 2y ago
  I wondered if it was another one of those solar powered websites: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/power https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/power
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I've thought about it. If your site was only open during working hours, there would be no off-hours support calls. It would be unusual for sure, but the idea has some appeal.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Plenty of websites I've seen will hide the support number during off hours, only rendering it on the page when people are available to receive a call.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Yeah I was thinking more like the site just displays "Closed until 0800" or something instead of offering any functionality at all. If the users can't do anything, there's nothing to support. And no reason to get a call in the middle of the night because "the site is down." (Answer: yes it is).
- dep_b 2y ago
  Some websites are closed on Sundays because of religious reasons: https://www.babypark.nl/zondag/index-bp.html https://www.babypark.nl/zondag/index-bp.html
- StefanBatory 2y ago
  I do know of one site that is closed because of author religious beliefs on Sunday, actually! A local Polish one, but still. :P
escapecharacter 2y ago
It's incredible that in a thousand years there will be one of these to build a computer from scratch, including kneading the silicon wafers by hand.
- vitiral 2y ago
  https://civboot.org https://civboot.org
skywal_l 2y ago
They really start from scratch. They mine the ore then use it to make steel to make axes to chop wood. This ensure that the know-how is genuine. They've been able to "rediscover" how things were actually made. It's a sort of retroactive proof of concept.
- dominicrose 2y ago
  Question is when will we be able to build this in Medieval Dynasty?
hommelix 2y ago
Similar in Germany is the site Campus Galli, between lake Constance and the Danube river. The goal is to build an abbey from the 8th century. They got inspired by Guedelon and started more recently. The website is in german : https://www.campus-galli.de/ https://www.campus-galli.de/
weatherlight 2y ago
So awesome, I wonder what the cost (modern cost) of this is?
amelius 2y ago
"Don't build your castle in someone else's kingdom" ... I guess they're lucky that France is a republic.
- bluGill 2y ago
  This castle is for a small local Lord that would have been subservient to the King of France. So it wasn't in their own kingdom and never intended to be one. In the 13 century Kings gave their military leaders (ie lords/knights - a lord would always be a knight) and that they were intended to protect from bandits. Those Lords then used the castle and their position to collect taxes (though generally not called that). Some of those taxes would go to the king, but most went to support the lord, his army (about 10 guards), build the castle. When the king went to war the lord was expected to turn the peasant men into foot soldiers and then go with the king. Though if you succeed in building a castle in someone else's kingdom that means it is no longer their kingdom - either it is now your kingdom, or(much more likely) it is part of the kingdom of whatever king you are under. When kings win battles they reward the best of their un-landed supporters with some of the taken over land, those people then become lords and are expected to build a castle (or take over an existing one if it wasn't too destroyed and culture allowed it) on their new land as part of their efforts to hold it for their king.
TKAB 2y ago
Similar project in Friesach in South of Austria (near Italy and Slovenia): https://burgbau.at/burgbaufrie/?page_id=3192 https://burgbau.at/burgbaufrie/?page_id=3192 Die whole city (or village) is a lot into medieval stuff, so it's a really great surrounding.
clearleaf 2y ago
https://i.imgur.com/dGXUE2o.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/dGXUE2o.jpeg ew

315 points by CharlesW 2y ago

Really interesting thing to visit I think... The fact that they’re constructing a 13th-century castle using only the techniques and tools of the period is also really cool.

ortusdux 2y ago

Tom Scott visited the site to try out their treadmill crane system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9v3m7Slv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9v3m7Slv8

bmelton 2y ago

Ruth Goodman has a phenomenal series about living in historic times on BBC. She's "lived" in several eras as early as back to the 1620s, and I've enjoyed literally all of them including the one she did from Guedelon, entitled Secrets of the Castle. Some of them are available for streaming, some appear lost to time (no pun intended) but this one appears to be available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72jhKwankOiwI5zt6lC3eQtsQDxOaN_g https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72jhKwankOiwI5zt6lC3... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_Castle

Syonyk 2y ago
The entire "BBC Farm series" is worth watching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series Ruth Goodman's shows are fun to watch, because regardless of what she's doing, how covered in grime she is, what era she's living and working in, she exudes such a sense of joy, and a general giddy, "I cannot believe that I get to do this as my job!" attitude. It's like watching the last couple seasons of Mythbusters. There's no doubt that they are having a grand time of it.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  Could you expand on the last point? Was there a change from the initial seasons? I have only casually watched the show, but everyone seemed to be having a great time, just doing weird engineering things with someone else footing the bill.
  - Syonyk 2y ago
    The first couple seasons were Jamie and Adam, with a fairly minimal film crew, "doing stuff." Going to random stores to get things and talk to people, and generally having a good time doing it on a shoestring budget. The show largely focused on the process - how the rigs were built. What sort of small scale testing was done in the shop. The tools and processes they used to test this sort of stuff. The mid-seasons added the build team (Keri, Grant (RIP) and Tory), and started what was, in my opinion, an unwelcome turn to "mainline television." They started adding more myths, more animations to explain things, and a lot of "Here's what we're going to do after the commercial!" and "Now that we're back from the commercial, here's what we've done!" sort of repeated filler - to the point that there was some subreddit that made versions without the filler and repeated content. It was a lot more "Here's the myth, here's the test" sort of TV, and mostly ignored the process. The build team got along well enough for the first few seasons of it, but towards the later seasons with them, the tension and dislike between various people was obvious even on air. Kari and Tory couldn't stand each other, and the "pranks" on Tory went from "entertaining" to "genuinely mean." The last few seasons were back to Adam and Jamie, focusing on the build, except with a budget and name recognition that allowed them to do basically anything they wanted - and you could tell they were loving it. I know there's some contract drama and such behind the scenes as well, but the above is how it felt watching it. The last two seasons are easily my favorites, because they'd worked out how to do the show well, and they were able to test a lot of impressive-scale things that wouldn't have been an option earlier in the show.
    - gradus_ad 2y ago
      Huh? I did a quick search and everything I can find says the relationship among the 3 build team members was very close and positive, that they were all close friends. They went on to do a show together on Netflix. Maybe some of the later episodes give the impression that there were tensions but I don't see anything attesting to that.
atombender 2y ago
Big fan of the British farm series, which is fantastic, and I love Ruth Goodman and the rest of the gang. I've seen all the farm ones, but somehow I missed this show. Thanks for the tip, this looks exciting!
mxfh 2y ago
The Experimental archaeology wikipedia article also has a quite exhaustive list on other sites and representation of the topic in popular culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology#Examp...
bluGill 2y ago
I just watched the first, and I'm compelled to think that it looks like building with 19th century tools as if the 13th century. Some of it is accurate (to what I know), but in other places I keep thinking that the tool in question either didn't exist, or would have been too expensive to use when a much cheaper alternative existed. In the 19th century mass production was starting and, but it wasn't until the late part that quality steel would have been available in quantity (a little steel would have come from refining iron ore, but most would have been iron). Iron doesn't harden like steel and so the hardening process they showed the blacksmith doing would have been questionable for tools. (though maybe they would have paid for expensive steel in stone cutting - I don't know) They did get hardening wrong - the yellow color is about tempering which is done after hardening. A blacksmith would know this difference, but probably couldn't explain it to the camera and just gave up. Maybe a castle would have paid for steel tools, but I question if they could get it (any historian know more)? There were a number tools they used of iron that I suspect would have been wood instead. The wagons seemed to have some advances that I don't think existed yet. Hard to tell because they don't show the wagons in detail, but I've read just enough about wagon development to suspect those were too advanced. It appears they were using iron hammers on those stone chisels - that is iron wrapped around a wood handle - I'd expect wood mallets would be used instead. Why use expensive iron when a good wood head works just as well (or maybe better) I also question if saws would have been available in that quantity. I believe they existed, though I'd expect a lot more work would have been done cutting to size with an axe type tool. I also suspect bronze wood tools would have been used - but here I don't know what would have been available in 13th century France. They showed clothing - but unfortunately (as they admit) their sources are garments saints wore and those were preserved. That feels like looking at the suit Ronald Regan wore in office (something I expect would be preserved in a museum) and completely missing that common people in the 1980s probably were wearing blue jeans for labor, or in an office job they would have ditched the formal jacket. Worse would be preserving a bridesmaid dress (again, something I wouldn't be surprised to see preserved), but young girls probably were wearing blue jeans in 1980 except for those situations. This is something historians often lament - we get a lot of information on the rulers and priest classes - but little information on how the common person lived. They also had a lot of horses. I would expect oxen to haul the wagons. They are slower, but much cheaper than a horse and work as well. Perhaps better given the state of yokes in those days.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mobymoney 2y ago

Who is paying forty master builders? Some billionaire probably.

OfficeChad 2y ago
[dead]
number6 2y ago
Interestingly not: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Guyot https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Guyot The son of a small business owner developed a passion for history, historic preservation, and horses from a young age. Trained in the military as a competition rider, he opened a riding stable at the Château de Valençay in the Indre department in 1972. In 1975, Guyot and his brother Jacques, who was four years younger, purchased the Château de La Roche in the Sologne region, and in 1979, they acquired the dilapidated Château de Saint-Fargeau in the Yonne department for a minimal amount. After failing with a "high culture" festival, Guyot succeeded in financing the castle's restoration through large historical spectacles involving the local population. The castle grounds also house a collection of old steam locomotives. In the mid-1990s, he conceived the Guédelon project: since 1997, about 60 employees and 200-300 annual volunteers have been building a small fortress in 13th-century style, located 40 kilometers southwest of Auxerre - using exclusively medieval techniques. The planned construction time is 25 years. This project has also become financially self-sustaining.
nestorD 2y ago
France is not big on billionaires pet project... Also, a lot of the hard work is done by volunteers!
- maigret 2y ago
  Many rich people (French and not French) own nice French castles. Some very expensively renovated. But they are often not interested in medieval castles. In the kind of projects documented here, the journey is the goal. I'm not even sure they really want to complete it, when something is done there is always a next thing to do. People spend time there for the community, the craft, the connection to elements and history.

mkaic 2y ago

This reminded me of Bishop's Castle in Colorado, USA — an incredible project built almost entirely by one man (who sadly died last year) working on it nonstop for 40 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Castle

bwb 2y ago
I visited this site once with some friends on a road trip... the guy building it (Bishop) started screaming the N-word at some black bikers and then calmly told them he wasn't racist and made some long rant about the government. We split very quickly as the dude was racist and crazy.
- slipperybeluga 2y ago
  [dead]
- zdragnar 2y ago
  Sounds like some Terry Davis level differences.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    a physical manifestation of TempleOS in castle form. weird and intriguing... but make no mistake: also weird
- mkaic 2y ago
  Damn, I had no idea. That's really unfortunate.
- ThinkBeat 2y ago
  It is such a severe accusation to make. Esp since the guy is dead, and cannot possibly address it. It is difficult however. I understand the need to warn people.
  - Salgat 2y ago

wiredfool 2y ago

This is well worth a visit if you're remotely near the area. We visited a few years back, and the kids thought it might be worth going back for a second day. One bit of interest -- if constructed back in the 1300s, it would have probably taken 4 years or so. Funding is the biggest difference, historically it would have been built from a rich patron's pockets with no desire to wait 25 years for the protection and image it would provide.

wongarsu 2y ago
Another important difference is that in the 1300s the overwhelming majority of Europe's population were farmers. Sure, they did a lot of things besides farming, but you could get a lot of workers for cheap during summer and winter when they weren't needed on the fields.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  Speaking of farmers I've read here and there that sometimes getting skilled workers in the trades you want was a real problem. So if you want a fitted stone building in a place where buildings are only wattle and dub or rocks and mud it might take a lot of wheedling to get the guys you need to take the gig.
  - pmontra 2y ago
    Nothing changed. Getting skilled workers in the trades you want is still a real problem. I'm learning to do more things myself because of that.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Note that here they are using "square" for the face of the walls, but the inside are just whatever they can fit. Less skill needed for the bulk of the stone. Square in quotes because they are not very close, but still a more or less flat sides for out, up, and down. The doors and windows have much better quality stone with a much nicer finish - good tolerances matter here so your door/window fits (though the window probably was just open air or a shutter)

jccooper 2y ago

They used to keep copies of their really detailed newsletter on the website. Seems to have disappeared. But the last time archive.org saw it is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20201030183911/https://www.guedelon.fr/en/newsletter-backcopies_99.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201030183911/https://www.guede... Dunno if they still keep up the newsletter (there's a signup form) in the same manner.

surfingdino 2y ago

Wow. I love this! Not least because this is so incomprehensible to the British property developers on so many levels...

davio 2y ago

They tried making a castle inspired by this near Branson, Missouri that failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_Medieval_Fortress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_Medieval_Fortress

pianoben 2y ago
To this day, the best random road-trip discovery of my life. What an amazing place that was! Bummer that it went under so quickly.

emarthinsen 2y ago

This is great. We need to keep these building techniques alive - or, at least, documented. There is always going to be a need for restoration reasons, but I'd like to see some of the old techniques become mainstream again. There are century-old structures that we can tour, but in another century, there will be no modern buildings still standing.

Swizec 2y ago
> but in another century, there will be no modern buildings still standing You sure? Many modern buildings are already 100 years old and in active use. Empire State Building, for example, was built in 1930. Chrysler Building is from 1928. White House is from 1800. I think we’ll be fine. Percentage wise we might end up keeping more modern buildings than we did of the very old ones. My mom’s socialist style block of flats (in Slovenia) is from 1962 – 63 years old – and people keep living here and maintaining the structure just fine. Can easily imagine it sticking around for a long while yet.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > White House is from 1800. The facade perhaps, but not the inside which dates to c. 1950: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Any building that is in active use needs to get major remodels every 30-50 years, and less major remodels every 5-10. The whitehouse has had significant changes since 1950, though not to the level of the 1950 changes.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  My parent's stick built tract house is 60 years old and basically fine. Buildings last pretty much indefinitely as long as they are maintained.
  - 2y ago

bwb 2y ago

I got to visit this a few years ago, and it was amazing. I can't wait to go back and take my son :)

fsagx 2y ago

Anyone who's been there -- How would you recommend getting there from Paris without a car? the closest train station I saw was 25km.

frutiger 2y ago
In keeping with the theme - on horse or foot.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Foot. Horses are for the rich, and castle builders wouldn't have been rich. Well the head stone mason might have been special enough to ride the master's horse once in a while. A horse eats a lot of food (even on days when you don't use it!) Most people would have walked. Saddles were not near as advances these days. Wagons would have had terrible suspension (and the roads not very good) so even the wagon drivers would have walked. A human can walk farther in a day than a horse can. The horse can run fast with a heavy load, but otherwise isn't worth it. Most likely they would have used oxen not a horse to haul the wagons.
ucarion 2y ago
You could rent a car out of Auxerre, but don't count on being able to get by in rural l'Yonne without one.
newsuser 2y ago
Haven't tried it, but it seems you could get, within 6 km, to Saint-Saveur-de-Puisaye - on bus 861 (need to call them) from Auxerre Saint-Gervais which is reachable by train from Paris.
ttoinou 2y ago
I hitchhike all the time in France and it works great, locals are usually nice and I never wait more than 10 mins (but I’m french so IDK how it would work without the native language)
- martin_a 2y ago

u-Squared 2y ago

the more you learn about cybersecurity, the more you would want to live there

eniac111 2y ago

We have a similar project in Bulgaria, but it's a huge ponzy scheme

lo_zamoyski 2y ago

Stobnica Castle[0] is still being built, but not using medieval methods. [0] https://stobnica.com/?lang=en https://stobnica.com/?lang=en

barrettondricka 2y ago

Cool. Does anybody have the same tool but better? Like, surely someone already made a sandbox that is not a fullblown VM. Docker probably.

hsuduebc2 2y ago

The project that secretly every man hearth craves.

sylario 2y ago
Totaly, and I can attest that kids around me still love castles and big things in general.
bluGill 2y ago
I'm not sure if I crave that or https://youtu.be/Cn-sQL2hO1o?feature=shared https://youtu.be/Cn-sQL2hO1o?feature=shared

mproud 2y ago

Where they say the site is closed on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, my brain immmeidately thought they meant the website, and I couldn’t understand how that might be plausible!

eutropia 2y ago
I wondered if it was another one of those solar powered websites: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/power https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/power
SoftTalker 2y ago
I've thought about it. If your site was only open during working hours, there would be no off-hours support calls. It would be unusual for sure, but the idea has some appeal.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Plenty of websites I've seen will hide the support number during off hours, only rendering it on the page when people are available to receive a call.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Yeah I was thinking more like the site just displays "Closed until 0800" or something instead of offering any functionality at all. If the users can't do anything, there's nothing to support. And no reason to get a call in the middle of the night because "the site is down." (Answer: yes it is).
dep_b 2y ago
Some websites are closed on Sundays because of religious reasons: https://www.babypark.nl/zondag/index-bp.html https://www.babypark.nl/zondag/index-bp.html
StefanBatory 2y ago
I do know of one site that is closed because of author religious beliefs on Sunday, actually! A local Polish one, but still. :P

escapecharacter 2y ago

It's incredible that in a thousand years there will be one of these to build a computer from scratch, including kneading the silicon wafers by hand.

vitiral 2y ago
https://civboot.org https://civboot.org

skywal_l 2y ago

They really start from scratch. They mine the ore then use it to make steel to make axes to chop wood. This ensure that the know-how is genuine. They've been able to "rediscover" how things were actually made. It's a sort of retroactive proof of concept.

dominicrose 2y ago
Question is when will we be able to build this in Medieval Dynasty?

hommelix 2y ago

Similar in Germany is the site Campus Galli, between lake Constance and the Danube river. The goal is to build an abbey from the 8th century. They got inspired by Guedelon and started more recently. The website is in german : https://www.campus-galli.de/ https://www.campus-galli.de/

weatherlight 2y ago

So awesome, I wonder what the cost (modern cost) of this is?

amelius 2y ago

"Don't build your castle in someone else's kingdom" ... I guess they're lucky that France is a republic.

bluGill 2y ago
This castle is for a small local Lord that would have been subservient to the King of France. So it wasn't in their own kingdom and never intended to be one. In the 13 century Kings gave their military leaders (ie lords/knights - a lord would always be a knight) and that they were intended to protect from bandits. Those Lords then used the castle and their position to collect taxes (though generally not called that). Some of those taxes would go to the king, but most went to support the lord, his army (about 10 guards), build the castle. When the king went to war the lord was expected to turn the peasant men into foot soldiers and then go with the king. Though if you succeed in building a castle in someone else's kingdom that means it is no longer their kingdom - either it is now your kingdom, or(much more likely) it is part of the kingdom of whatever king you are under. When kings win battles they reward the best of their un-landed supporters with some of the taken over land, those people then become lords and are expected to build a castle (or take over an existing one if it wasn't too destroyed and culture allowed it) on their new land as part of their efforts to hold it for their king.

TKAB 2y ago

Similar project in Friesach in South of Austria (near Italy and Slovenia): https://burgbau.at/burgbaufrie/?page_id=3192 https://burgbau.at/burgbaufrie/?page_id=3192 Die whole city (or village) is a lot into medieval stuff, so it's a really great surrounding.

clearleaf 2y ago

https://i.imgur.com/dGXUE2o.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/dGXUE2o.jpeg ew