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I love everything about the demo video on the homepage. It's always fun to see a creator beat up their product and see it withstand the abuse. As far as "any b

I love everything about the demo video on the homepage. It's always fun to see a creator beat up their product and see it withstand the abuse. As far as "any bike can be an ebike" I'm surprised that Hilltoppers[0] haven't gained more traction over the years. You just pop off your current bike's front wheel and install theirs. [0] https://hilltopperbikes.com/product-category/electric-bike-kits/ https://hilltopperbikes.com/product-category/electric-bike-k...

SequoiaHope 2y ago
Note that’s a front wheel not a front tire! When I first read your comment I was very curious to see how replacing just a tire could help here hah. But yeah that kind of product makes a lot of sense! I DIY’d my ebike using a BBSHD motor and an EM3EV battery. Including the bike the total cost was $3k but this type of setup could seriously replace a car in many locations, except the roads aren’t designed for it. I have plenty of experience riding bikes on public roads but I daydream about shutting down some of the roads and making them an independent bike network. The bike itself is fantastic it’s just cars that make it risky for the average person. We could absolutely accommodate more people biking if we commit to it! Would be lower costs than driving a car and I find it more fun not to be sitting in a huge metal box. My rear rack and panniers hold a lot of cargo and with good rain gear the weather doesn’t slow me down.
- MattSayar 2y ago
  I have a bad habit of accidentally using "tire" and "wheel" synonymously, sorry! I updated it, thanks.
  - nayuki 2y ago
    It's okay, these concepts are frequently conflated. For example when it comes to cars, it is advised to put on "winter tires", but people usually keep an entire set of 4 tires+rims so that they change the wheels instead of the tires.
    - mauvehaus 2y ago
      Incredibly, some people don't have their winter tires on a second set of wheels and pay to mount and balance tires twice a year. Since a set of steel wheels can be had for 2-3x the labor of mounting and balancing tires, you're making money after perhaps as much as two years. Needless to say, you save more money if you change the wheels over yourself. That's a 45 minute job for me, including finding the tools and putting them away.
      - MattSayar 2y ago
        I used to do this, but because I bought the tires from Discount Tire they performed the labor free each time. I thought this was great, except after a couple years the wheels inevitably got warped enough that the tires constantly leaked air. I eventually got a whole new set of tires+wheels and the shop still swaps them for free.
        mauvehaus 2y ago
        Where did you live that your wheels warped from normal use? I've had alloys develop bead leaks from corrosion, but I've never warped a rim despite living in Cleveland, Boston, and now rural Vermont (unpaved roads and all).
        MattSayar 2y ago
        It was from the tire shop repeatedly taking the tires on and off again over the years. They didn't sit right after doing that a few times
      - nottorp 2y ago
        > pay to mount and balance tires twice a year Depending on where you drive, it's a good idea to rebalance your tires on a regular basis anyway. Incidentally, my tire shop said they've had people lose the balancing weights due to the current adhesive not being able to handle the heat this summer. Hopefully they switch to something stronger next year, but it looks like you may have to rebalance twice per summer...
nayuki 2y ago
> You just pop off your current bike's front tire and install theirs. Nah, they're selling a complete wheel (wheelset?), which consists of: Axle, electric hub, spokes, spoke nipples, rim, inner tube, valve, valve core, tire. (Addendum: To any downvoters, I was replying to the parent's original text as I first saw it. They made an edit after my reply, within their 2-hour window.)
nradov 2y ago
Any bike can be an ebike. Not every bike can be a safe ebike. Many cheaper or older bikes have kind of crappy brakes which don't hold up well to frequent stops from high speed, especially with a heavy rider or cargo. This type of ebike conversion can be fine but know what you're getting into before you buy. New ebikes from reputable brands come with good brakes from the factory.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  ebike doesn't mean high speed. In many countries ebike assistance is strictly limited. Sure an ebike weight more than a regular bike, but the stress in brakes is only an issue in hilly places. If you ride a bike restricting assistance to 25kph (15mph)/like in most countries[1] and do not hit steep dow hills there are very little reason for you to go faster as going past the assistance limit feels like hitting a sudden headwind. In that case you are riding slower than most cyclists doing recreative cycling on road bikes and are less likely to need strong braking. [1] in europe you can buy faster ones but they need to be registered like a moped (for those limited to 45kph) or motorbikes, have plates and you usually lose the right to use bicycle lanes. Having said that, a lot of people are breaking the law and never get issues until they are involved in an accident and lose insurance coverage and get fined.
  - sleepybrett 2y ago
    I have an off the shelf ebike (rad expand 5). I'd say that their stock breaks on this model are woefully under powered. I swapped them with hydraulics within the first year. Ebikes are generally pretty heavy, even i this case where you are converting an old bike, that aluminum box of batteries is going to add a ton of weight.. and given that there are many older bikes with caliper breaks out there... that's pretty scary. At least the expand ships with disk breaks (still not up to the task but a caliper break would be totally ineffective).
    - mauvehaus 2y ago
      The heaviest thing on a bike is the rider, generally by a pretty good margin. I've seen plenty of bikes with shitty brakes, but very few where the straw that broke the camel's back was the weight of the ebike componentry. For most e-bikes, you're looking at maybe an extra 30lb/14kg. That's generally within the envelope of reasonable rider weights. If the combined bike and rider weight is too much for the brakes, it's probably also too much for the whole bike. Again, not that there aren't worthless brakes in the world, but it's usually not the weight of the battery and motor that pushes a set of brakes over the edge.
alistairSH 2y ago
You just pop off your current bike's front wheel and install theirs... And then you remove your bottle cage to install their battery (hope you don't ride a small frame). And then you install the speed/cadence sensor. Then you install the display/swtich/throttle assembly. Then you wire it all up. And then you get into all the compatibility problems - many e-bike conversion kits are sold with a freehub that's not the correct size for modern cassettes (comes with HG 9-speed, need an HG 11-speed, XD, XDR, or Microspline freehub). Axle widths and axle type (bolt, QR, thru-axle). Granted, all the above is easier than it sounds, but it's not quite as simple as "swap wheel, done". You need a working knowledge of bicycles to do this. Then there's the cost. Basic "unbranded" kits are $500 or so. Brand-name kits, larger battery, or mid-drive kits cost more. Is it worth putting a $500 kit on an old bike that's only worth $100? Or, are you better off buying a new bike with warranty and no need for service for years (which will cost $1500-$3000).
- loeg 2y ago
  Cassette compatibility isn't going to be a problem with a front wheel conversion kit.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    Fair, though you still have axle standards to consider. If it's a QR bike, it's pretty straightforward. But, most new bikes (in the US) are through-axle and disc brake.
    - loeg 2y ago
      Yes.
- EncomLab 2y ago
  Not to mention the fact that the last place you want to add a bunch of mass is the front wheel of a bicycle.
  - recursive 2y ago
UncleOxidant 2y ago
I'd be interested in something like the hilltoppers front wheel replacement, but the cheapest one being $550 with only 12 miles range seems like too much. The $899 specs are better, but then you're getting into deciding to maybe just buy a whole $1300 ebike instead of paying $900 for the front wheel replacement. I think if these prices were about half of what they're at they'd be selling quite well.
- MattSayar 2y ago
  I don't disagree, however the 12 mile range assumes you won't pedal which of course you will. I have no investment here but I've been a happy customer. I think the ideal customer for these is someone who already has a bike and doesn't want to spend $1300 on a new ebike.
0_____0 2y ago
The very first time I rode a Jump bike in SF with the front wheel motor assist, I immediately ate shit and crashed as I crossed some railroad tracks. It turns out there are some downsides to having the motor in front, in this case the motor overwhelming the available grip caused the front tire to spin up, which removes your ability to steer, or indeed, keep your face off the tarmac.
- qmr 2y ago
  Pretty sure there are zero roads in the SF ( or even in the US ) that are paved with tarmacadam. That word does not mean what you think it means. https://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/ https://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/
  - doormatt 2y ago
    >Asphalt concrete (commonly called asphalt, blacktop, or pavement in North America, and tarmac or bitumen macadam in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete
  - mikestew 2y ago
    Your own link contradicts you. See sibling comment and link for common use of the term.
ianhowson 2y ago
1. They're overpriced. A quick Amazon search will show comparable kits for half of the price. You can buy a whole prebuilt ebike for the same price. 2. They're dangerous. FWD ebikes have a tendency to break traction on corners. 3. They tend to destroy the dropouts in your fork. 4. Installation is much more complex than "pop off your bike's front wheel". I can't even find the axle compatibility specs on their website. You know that there are many standards for front axles, right? Do not recommend.
nxobject 2y ago
Hilltoppers isn't alone in the market as well – there are no-name kits with the same target market of people who are handy with a spanner; Swytch [1] also offers kits, but their emphasis is on compatibility with the widest amount of bikes possible (i.e. they have a battery design that latches onto to tubes, racks, etc; and I'm told they provide a torque arm by default on kits so that people with used road bikes don't grind up their forks.) [1] https://www.swytchbike.com https://www.swytchbike.com
- steelframe 2y ago
  I installed a Swytch conversion kit on a couple of my bicycles in the U.S. I did have to file down the axles by about 1mm to get them to fit in the drops, but after that everything has been working pretty well. The ring with the magnets around the crank sometimes shifts out of alignment with the sensor, which results in the motor not kicking in sometimes. The extra weight on the front also makes it more squirrely, and I generally prefer to ride my mid-drive e-bike for distances longer than 3 or so miles.
nuccy 2y ago
The video is indeed very nice, it shows few things [1] not mentioned on the website: - the chain is routed through the add-on device, so it should be longer than usual - the pedals don't rotate when the chain and the wheel do, so there is a custom pedal hub with a ratchet mechanism 1. https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFsnS0Yb1Bs&t=83s https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFsnS0Yb1Bs&t=83s
jnurmine 2y ago
My first reaction was to just not bother when the large video appeared. Usually I hate those, so I almost closed the tab, but then I let the video roll. And I'm glad I did, it's great! The design is pretty clever, I was expecting more work to make things happen. Also, the individual parts about mud and fireproofing etc. are quite illustrative. However, for me the best part was the scenery. It just looks somehow... peaceful. Calm. I actually watched this several times just because of the scenery. I don't know why it seems so peaceful. Maybe because the scenery and nature and the light (?!) reminds me of the late summers when I bicycled (not quite as effortlessly though) home as a child when the Sun was low. I mean especially the part when the dog is chasing him. I was annoyed at one thing though: he casually throws the empty container of flammable liquid into the ditch. I hope he picked it up afterwards.

SequoiaHope 2y ago

Note that’s a front wheel not a front tire! When I first read your comment I was very curious to see how replacing just a tire could help here hah. But yeah that kind of product makes a lot of sense! I DIY’d my ebike using a BBSHD motor and an EM3EV battery. Including the bike the total cost was $3k but this type of setup could seriously replace a car in many locations, except the roads aren’t designed for it. I have plenty of experience riding bikes on public roads but I daydream about shutting down some of the roads and making them an independent bike network. The bike itself is fantastic it’s just cars that make it risky for the average person. We could absolutely accommodate more people biking if we commit to it! Would be lower costs than driving a car and I find it more fun not to be sitting in a huge metal box. My rear rack and panniers hold a lot of cargo and with good rain gear the weather doesn’t slow me down.

MattSayar 2y ago
I have a bad habit of accidentally using "tire" and "wheel" synonymously, sorry! I updated it, thanks.
- nayuki 2y ago
  It's okay, these concepts are frequently conflated. For example when it comes to cars, it is advised to put on "winter tires", but people usually keep an entire set of 4 tires+rims so that they change the wheels instead of the tires.
  - mauvehaus 2y ago
    Incredibly, some people don't have their winter tires on a second set of wheels and pay to mount and balance tires twice a year. Since a set of steel wheels can be had for 2-3x the labor of mounting and balancing tires, you're making money after perhaps as much as two years. Needless to say, you save more money if you change the wheels over yourself. That's a 45 minute job for me, including finding the tools and putting them away.
    - MattSayar 2y ago
      I used to do this, but because I bought the tires from Discount Tire they performed the labor free each time. I thought this was great, except after a couple years the wheels inevitably got warped enough that the tires constantly leaked air. I eventually got a whole new set of tires+wheels and the shop still swaps them for free.
      - mauvehaus 2y ago
        Where did you live that your wheels warped from normal use? I've had alloys develop bead leaks from corrosion, but I've never warped a rim despite living in Cleveland, Boston, and now rural Vermont (unpaved roads and all).
        MattSayar 2y ago
        It was from the tire shop repeatedly taking the tires on and off again over the years. They didn't sit right after doing that a few times
    - nottorp 2y ago
      > pay to mount and balance tires twice a year Depending on where you drive, it's a good idea to rebalance your tires on a regular basis anyway. Incidentally, my tire shop said they've had people lose the balancing weights due to the current adhesive not being able to handle the heat this summer. Hopefully they switch to something stronger next year, but it looks like you may have to rebalance twice per summer...

nayuki 2y ago

> You just pop off your current bike's front tire and install theirs. Nah, they're selling a complete wheel (wheelset?), which consists of: Axle, electric hub, spokes, spoke nipples, rim, inner tube, valve, valve core, tire. (Addendum: To any downvoters, I was replying to the parent's original text as I first saw it. They made an edit after my reply, within their 2-hour window.)

nradov 2y ago

Any bike can be an ebike. Not every bike can be a safe ebike. Many cheaper or older bikes have kind of crappy brakes which don't hold up well to frequent stops from high speed, especially with a heavy rider or cargo. This type of ebike conversion can be fine but know what you're getting into before you buy. New ebikes from reputable brands come with good brakes from the factory.

prmoustache 2y ago
ebike doesn't mean high speed. In many countries ebike assistance is strictly limited. Sure an ebike weight more than a regular bike, but the stress in brakes is only an issue in hilly places. If you ride a bike restricting assistance to 25kph (15mph)/like in most countries[1] and do not hit steep dow hills there are very little reason for you to go faster as going past the assistance limit feels like hitting a sudden headwind. In that case you are riding slower than most cyclists doing recreative cycling on road bikes and are less likely to need strong braking. [1] in europe you can buy faster ones but they need to be registered like a moped (for those limited to 45kph) or motorbikes, have plates and you usually lose the right to use bicycle lanes. Having said that, a lot of people are breaking the law and never get issues until they are involved in an accident and lose insurance coverage and get fined.
- sleepybrett 2y ago
  I have an off the shelf ebike (rad expand 5). I'd say that their stock breaks on this model are woefully under powered. I swapped them with hydraulics within the first year. Ebikes are generally pretty heavy, even i this case where you are converting an old bike, that aluminum box of batteries is going to add a ton of weight.. and given that there are many older bikes with caliper breaks out there... that's pretty scary. At least the expand ships with disk breaks (still not up to the task but a caliper break would be totally ineffective).
  - mauvehaus 2y ago
    The heaviest thing on a bike is the rider, generally by a pretty good margin. I've seen plenty of bikes with shitty brakes, but very few where the straw that broke the camel's back was the weight of the ebike componentry. For most e-bikes, you're looking at maybe an extra 30lb/14kg. That's generally within the envelope of reasonable rider weights. If the combined bike and rider weight is too much for the brakes, it's probably also too much for the whole bike. Again, not that there aren't worthless brakes in the world, but it's usually not the weight of the battery and motor that pushes a set of brakes over the edge.

alistairSH 2y ago

You just pop off your current bike's front wheel and install theirs... And then you remove your bottle cage to install their battery (hope you don't ride a small frame). And then you install the speed/cadence sensor. Then you install the display/swtich/throttle assembly. Then you wire it all up. And then you get into all the compatibility problems - many e-bike conversion kits are sold with a freehub that's not the correct size for modern cassettes (comes with HG 9-speed, need an HG 11-speed, XD, XDR, or Microspline freehub). Axle widths and axle type (bolt, QR, thru-axle). Granted, all the above is easier than it sounds, but it's not quite as simple as "swap wheel, done". You need a working knowledge of bicycles to do this. Then there's the cost. Basic "unbranded" kits are $500 or so. Brand-name kits, larger battery, or mid-drive kits cost more. Is it worth putting a $500 kit on an old bike that's only worth $100? Or, are you better off buying a new bike with warranty and no need for service for years (which will cost $1500-$3000).

loeg 2y ago
Cassette compatibility isn't going to be a problem with a front wheel conversion kit.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  Fair, though you still have axle standards to consider. If it's a QR bike, it's pretty straightforward. But, most new bikes (in the US) are through-axle and disc brake.
  - loeg 2y ago
    Yes.
EncomLab 2y ago
Not to mention the fact that the last place you want to add a bunch of mass is the front wheel of a bicycle.
- recursive 2y ago

UncleOxidant 2y ago

I'd be interested in something like the hilltoppers front wheel replacement, but the cheapest one being $550 with only 12 miles range seems like too much. The $899 specs are better, but then you're getting into deciding to maybe just buy a whole $1300 ebike instead of paying $900 for the front wheel replacement. I think if these prices were about half of what they're at they'd be selling quite well.

MattSayar 2y ago
I don't disagree, however the 12 mile range assumes you won't pedal which of course you will. I have no investment here but I've been a happy customer. I think the ideal customer for these is someone who already has a bike and doesn't want to spend $1300 on a new ebike.

0_____0 2y ago

The very first time I rode a Jump bike in SF with the front wheel motor assist, I immediately ate shit and crashed as I crossed some railroad tracks. It turns out there are some downsides to having the motor in front, in this case the motor overwhelming the available grip caused the front tire to spin up, which removes your ability to steer, or indeed, keep your face off the tarmac.

qmr 2y ago
Pretty sure there are zero roads in the SF ( or even in the US ) that are paved with tarmacadam. That word does not mean what you think it means. https://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/ https://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/
- doormatt 2y ago
  >Asphalt concrete (commonly called asphalt, blacktop, or pavement in North America, and tarmac or bitumen macadam in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete
- mikestew 2y ago
  Your own link contradicts you. See sibling comment and link for common use of the term.

ianhowson 2y ago

1. They're overpriced. A quick Amazon search will show comparable kits for half of the price. You can buy a whole prebuilt ebike for the same price. 2. They're dangerous. FWD ebikes have a tendency to break traction on corners. 3. They tend to destroy the dropouts in your fork. 4. Installation is much more complex than "pop off your bike's front wheel". I can't even find the axle compatibility specs on their website. You know that there are many standards for front axles, right? Do not recommend.

nxobject 2y ago

Hilltoppers isn't alone in the market as well – there are no-name kits with the same target market of people who are handy with a spanner; Swytch [1] also offers kits, but their emphasis is on compatibility with the widest amount of bikes possible (i.e. they have a battery design that latches onto to tubes, racks, etc; and I'm told they provide a torque arm by default on kits so that people with used road bikes don't grind up their forks.) [1] https://www.swytchbike.com https://www.swytchbike.com

steelframe 2y ago
I installed a Swytch conversion kit on a couple of my bicycles in the U.S. I did have to file down the axles by about 1mm to get them to fit in the drops, but after that everything has been working pretty well. The ring with the magnets around the crank sometimes shifts out of alignment with the sensor, which results in the motor not kicking in sometimes. The extra weight on the front also makes it more squirrely, and I generally prefer to ride my mid-drive e-bike for distances longer than 3 or so miles.

nuccy 2y ago

The video is indeed very nice, it shows few things [1] not mentioned on the website: - the chain is routed through the add-on device, so it should be longer than usual - the pedals don't rotate when the chain and the wheel do, so there is a custom pedal hub with a ratchet mechanism 1. https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFsnS0Yb1Bs&t=83s https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFsnS0Yb1Bs&t=83s

jnurmine 2y ago

My first reaction was to just not bother when the large video appeared. Usually I hate those, so I almost closed the tab, but then I let the video roll. And I'm glad I did, it's great! The design is pretty clever, I was expecting more work to make things happen. Also, the individual parts about mud and fireproofing etc. are quite illustrative. However, for me the best part was the scenery. It just looks somehow... peaceful. Calm. I actually watched this several times just because of the scenery. I don't know why it seems so peaceful. Maybe because the scenery and nature and the light (?!) reminds me of the late summers when I bicycled (not quite as effortlessly though) home as a child when the Sun was low. I mean especially the part when the dog is chasing him. I was annoyed at one thing though: he casually throws the empty container of flammable liquid into the ditch. I hope he picked it up afterwards.