8 ms·

What does "supports DRM and may not be fully accessible" mean for SATA SDDs?

181 points by josephcsible 2y ago

kristjansson 2y ago
Drives for/from Digital Cinema Packages?
- supriyo-biswas 2y ago
  I wonder whether the "owning" argument against DRM and streaming media can be solved with physical media which you can still own. Although, realistically we'll just end up with a drive that locks the user out of critical parts of the operating system and system data to ensure lock-in, which is related to the "restrictions" and "freedom" part of DRM.
ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
I truly hate how the battle against DRM is slowly being lost, and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. This should simply be illegal and considered a human rights violation. At least hardware vendors should not be able to claim that they sell you the hardware and that you own it, they should be upfront about it being a rental agreement, and you should be able to cancel that agreement and return the hardware with a full refund at any time.
- pmontra 2y ago
  Don't give them ideas. 99 dollars per month to use your/their laptop. 49 extra to unlock the performance cores. 99 more for the discrete graphic card. 39 for the AI chip.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Welcome to Intel On-Demand, formerly called Software Defined Silicon (SDSi): https://github.com/intel/intel-sdsi https://github.com/intel/intel-sdsi From the README: Intel® Xeon® family processors with support for Intel® On Demand (formerly known as Software Defined Silicon or SDSi) allow the configuration of additional CPU features through a license activation process.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      The first generations of Raspberry Pi had the same with video codecs, IIRC MPEG and h264, to keep the price down for educational users but make it usable for people doing stuff with video.
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        h.264 was licensed out of the box, but MPEG2 was not, you had to buy a license tied to your board (or processor) serial number to accelerate DVD playback on these systems.
      - eth0up 2y ago
        I recently swapped from Debian to OpenSuse and before the first zypper dist-upgrade, verified non OSS was enabled. Then I proceeded to edit videos in openshot, which couldn't recognize the most common formats. Man, I scratched half me hair off me ed after seeing VLC handle everything right beside it. No simple solutions were to be found on forums until after a eureka, I specifically searched with word "codecs". Turned out I had to install the packman-easentials repo, then grab the forbidden codecs. Reminded me of the early 2000s, where things were pretty finicky gettin a functional setup in Linuxland.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        mschuster91 2y ago
        > Turned out I had to install the packman-easentials repo, then grab the forbidden codecs. Reminded me of the early 2000s, where things were pretty finicky gettin a functional setup in Linuxland. Windows world wasn't much better with "codec packs" that led to all sorts of shenanigans - version mismatches that led to issues with games, people spicing up codecs and packs with malware, people mixing and matching stuff from various versions and sources haphazardly for "better performance", quite a few weren't freeware but shareware or paid and subsequently cracked, legitimate installers that distributed adware, download sites injecting adware ('member Sourceforge? [1]), SEO and DDoS wars between mal/adware spreaders... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31110206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31110206
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Well, in most cases they won't be able to get Microsoft PC certification, so it's not going to happen. Hardware vendors are the wrong tree to bark at. Most of these requirements are passed down by Microsoft and content lobbies. If they require your PC to be tinkerable/repairable; higher end devices will come with a "toolbox loaded with high quality tools to ease and improve the experience", "for no additional charge", as a selling point.
  - grishka 2y ago
    > Microsoft PC certification Why is that a thing to begin with? What happens if a PC doesn't have it? It's not like Windows would refuse to run on it.
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      It's a thing because people want to control other people. This is what it all boils down to, sadly.
      - xbmcuser 2y ago
        It's less about control and more about unhindered capitilism. Something a lot of people have blinders on about this is about capitilism and the world is fast moving towards a big fracture between the haves and have nots.
        TeMPOraL 2y ago
        It's both - i.e. control is means to an end, which is setting up the rules so that we are forced to live on their terms, which mostly boils down to paying them for the stuff they want us to pay. DRM is fundamentally an attempt to rewrite reality, or at least the computing aspects of it, in ways that are not possible to do with laws of physics in general. An idealized DRM setup establishes a faux reality, a virtual environment running on top of reality, in which bits have extra rules to it - codifying the weaker attempt of what IP regulations are doing to information in general, i.e. establishing a faux legal reality, in which bits carry colour, and with it restrictions and consequences. The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us.
- _blk 2y ago
  While I can totally relate to the sentiment, I strongly differ in the view that the battle against DRM is being lost. It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Don't like it, don't buy it. Vendor didn't stick to their promise? Sell the hardware to someone who wants it and submit a review or a comment.. I don't like DRM either for many use cases but it's not often that I feel violated to use or buy a product against my will.
  - Joker_vD 2y ago
    > It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's hard to buy alternatives when they literally don't exist, nobody is willing to provide them, and those who would maybe like to provide them, are quickly shut down by the industry's self-regulation mechanisms.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    When there's a one ring to bind them all (Microsoft PC platform certification), and everybody needs to cater to it, you can't do anything besides allowing your PC to play nice with Linux kernel, if you want to sell that device and make some money. OTOH, it's greatly helpful that Lennart Pottering of systemd is working squarely for Microsoft, enabling more and more of SecureBoot and TPM functionality in systemd to protect the users and systems' integrity in the face of adversarial attacks, so the PC can be TiVo-ized once and for all, after all. What a great era to be alive. BTW, this is exactly Capitalism, functioning as intended: extract value from a market for the shareholders of a company or an entity.
  - friendzis 2y ago
    > It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Free market could fix this, however unrestrained capitalism is, at it's core, anything but free. > Don't like it, don't buy it In practice DRM and majority of content go hand in hand, therefore the DRM compromise places majority of content on the compromise scale. Don't like DRM, don't buy access to entertainment. That's a much tougher sell than it might seem at a first glance. Unless the dominant majority shares your sentiment regarding DRM, you are on a losing side of the battle.
- eecc 2y ago
  OTOH, it allows you to implement secure vaults for your personal and most important data. It all depends on how access to these privileged interfaces is managed.
  - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
    Yes, the technology is not inherently evil, but some applications of it are. We shouldn't put bans on the tech, but we should put bans on usages of it which takes away personal freedom. Using it to implement secure vaults for your personal data is a way to actually improve personal security, and I can get behind that. Using it to prevent software from even running on your device claims to improve personal security, but actually it is mainly about asserting control over you. Yes, it improves security as a side effect, but it does so by taking away your freedom.
    - nonrandomstring 2y ago
      > a way to actually improve personal security, I'm not sure this is true. I've studied trust models in some depth now and I think that cryptographic enclaves are at best an analgesic and sedative. Don't fall for any myth of symmetrical technology that can be used "for evil or good". The purpose of this technology is to assert logical ownership over computation under remote physical control of another. That would serve your interests and rights iff you purchase a cloud computing resource you want to make secure in an untrustworthy data-centre. Sadly "security" gets used as a bare noun. One must always ask three questions: - security for who? - security against who or what? - security to what end? DRM is a generally a net loss to security of the physical machine owner, since it is a way to hide code and functionality within the perimeter of ownership and control. It's no worse than blobs or treacherous silicon, but any security conscious operator should avoid or remove it. It is opaque "security" for vendors/content-publishers, and "security" against the owner and operator.
      - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
        I think it makes sense in very narrow use cases such as hardware security modules for key management, giving the user a somewhat strong guarantee that there is a one-to-one correspondence between control of the key and physical ownership of the HSM. This is an example where limitations of what you can do with the hardware is the primary feature of the hardware and the reason the user acquired it in the first place. It is analogous to physical locks being hard to pick by design. Any use of enclaves for DRM are unethical though, and solutions such as Play Integrity API is a commingling of security guarantees and totalitarian control over the user. Instead of proving to a service provider (such as your bank) that your whole phone is running a verified software and hardware stack, it suffices to communicate with a HSM with which you verify that the transaction to be authorized (1) comes from your bank, and (2) has a description which aligns with what you expect. The HSM can be built into the phone or be an external device with a small screen, but it should never ever enforce how you use the rest of the phone, it should only solve the narrow security issue of authorizing critical transactions.
- jjcob 2y ago
  I was so happy when HDMI caught on that the troubles with VGA ports in meeting rooms were finally a thing of the past. But now I randomly get "HDCP not supported" messages when trying to make a presentation because... I have no idea why. It's just a giant fuck you from the recording industry. I could download a torrent of any movie I want, so the tech is obviously not preventing piracy. It's just making random things in life harder than they should be.
  - geraldhh 2y ago
    > the troubles with VGA ports in meeting rooms please elaborate fwiw vga is plug and play, but multi-monitor support in operating systems was indeed a pia
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      VGA/DB15 is not a hot-plug connection by default. That part started with DVI.
      - M95D 2y ago
        No, it started with DDC and was used since Win95, the first PnP OS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel
        bayindirh 2y ago
        Being PnP doesn't imply any hot-plugging capability. DDC allows digital means of changing data and letting the OS know what the monitor can do. It doesn't allow/enable hot-plugging. Since the interface doesn't support hot plugging by design, there's no standard way to detect a new VGA peripheral. However, manufacturers flexed the standard to try to enable hot-plug, but it doesn't work reliably, as we seen for years. Similarly, PS2, SATA, PCI are not hot-plug by default, even if they're PnP. PS2 required standards bending, SATA had to wait AHCI, and PCI had to wait PCIe to gain hot-plugging support. To add to the list, IDE drives required special hardware, and RAM requires chipset and board support to be hot-pluggable. RAM has myriad of ways of identifying itself, making it truly PnP out of the box. So, being PnP doesn't mean anything, from a hot-plug perspective. They're very different things.
- nicman23 2y ago
  just do not use them. actually vote with your wallet.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    In theory this works, but when you have 4 banks in your country, and all 4 require this, you're basically fscked.
    - nicman23 2y ago
      your bank requires drm? what.
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        Not drm per-se I was commenting this (from above): > and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. Many banking apps (and other payment apps) won't work on phones with custom android builds, nor on phones with unlocked bootloaders, same for rooted phones. But yeah, in turn, unless you have a "dedicated banking phone", this will mean that people will stay with the official OS's with all the DRM features included. (or well.. as we in the balkans do, pirate stuff)
        surajrmal 2y ago
        Do you think your bank is obligated to run its software on your arbitrary device? Why? If, for its own risk tolerance of fraud, it needs to ensure nothing has messed with its app, shouldn't they have the right to refuse? You've not paid anything for the app, it's simply a venue for a service they offer. I would not like to live in a world where I need to pay extra to ensure some folks want "freedom". Fraud indirectly is a tax on all of us. There should obviously be limits on what we put up with, but I'm not sold this limitation is where the line should be drawn
- GuB-42 2y ago
  They probably shouldn't have called it "DRM" here. It can be used for DRM, but it can also be used to secure your own data, and calling it "DRM" is unclear on what feature it is. What standard does it follow? The technology that can prevent a thief from getting all your data from your computer is the same that prevents you from ripping media files, the only difference is who owns the keys, but that part is out of scope for a SSD.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hansvm 2y ago
  > return the hardware at any time "Any time" might be a stretch, but I've had no problems returning hardware which, after unboxing and/or setting it up, I found violated basic expectations and didn't have those limitations listed in the specs (no, I'm not buying and maintaining an un-rooted Android AND granting location services and other such permissions just to set up your special snowflake printer, and if your OBD-II control app works via a webview and one day starts requiring a subscription for the device I "purchased" then that's going straight back to the store/manufacturer even years later, ...).
  - TheJoeMan 2y ago
    Regarding the printer comment, I've bought HP printers that have stickers covering the USB port with a "NO" symbol, and removing the sticker the port works just fine. I'd like to think there is an engineer in the belly of the beast ensuring this stuff slips past the marketing team.
anilakar 2y ago
So... one more reason to not buy the content and pirate it instead.
bdd 2y ago
I don't think in this very case it has anything to do with digital rights management. It detects an Intel SATA SSD, SSDSCKJF360A5L a disk that supports ATA Trusted Send/Receive commands used to interface with on-disk encryption features. Specifically 5B to 5F (reference: https://wiki.osdev.org/ATA_Command_Matrix https://wiki.osdev.org/ATA_Command_Matrix). To make things even more confusing, kernel refers to the command between 5C and 5F with the acronym TPM, and requires `libata.allow_tpm=1` command line parameter to be passed to allow issuing them. (kernel source reference: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v6.12/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c#L3134 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v6.12/drivers/ata/lib...), which has _nothing to do_ with the trusted platform module TPM, just another TLA clash. Here's the original commit from 2008. The naming is very likely through misassociation. TCG: Trusted Computing Group is most known for creating TPM specification. Another thing they work on is the OPAL specification for self encrypting drives. Author possibly clumped them into the same thing. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ae8d4ee7ff429136c8b482c3b38ed994c021d3fc https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ae8d4ee7ff429136c8b...
- Maxious 2y ago
  > I don't think in this very case it has anything to do with digital rights management. From your kernel source link > DVR type users will probably ship with this enabled for movie content management. Indeed where the DRM error message comes from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/ffd294d346d185b70e28b1a28abe367bbfe53c04/drivers/ata/libata-core.c#L2902 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/ffd294d346d185b70e28b... > CPRM may make this media unusable CPRM? > Content Protection for Recordable Media and Pre-Recorded Media (CPRM / CPPM) is a mechanism for restricting the copying, moving, and deletion of digital media on a host device, such as a personal computer, or other player. It is a form of digital rights management (DRM) developed by The 4C Entity, LLC (consisting of IBM, Intel, Matsushita and Toshiba). How can we be sure which CPRM it is though? Ah the kernel maintainers actually had an argument about it at the time https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5091 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5091 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5092 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5092
  - bdd 2y ago
OptionOfT 2y ago
The S in SD stands for secure, and can be used for DRM purposes as well. Windows Phone 7 is the only one I know of that used it: https://web.archive.org/web/20110219215401/http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 https://web.archive.org/web/20110219215401/http://support.mi... Once the SD card was bonded to your phone it was not reuseable elsewhere.
- forty 2y ago
  OP is about SSD, 2 Ss, so twice as secure ;)
  - dmichulke 2y ago
    just like homo sapiens sapiens is ehhh ... nevermind
  - baal80spam 2y ago
    Super Secure Drive
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    Looks to be 2 Ds, so Super Duper Drive ?
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > OP is about SSD, 2 Ss, so twice as secure ;) Like applying ROT13 twice?
- kurtoid 2y ago
  Some Garmin Marine units use SD cards for map updates (Bluechart), which also seem to use the S in SD
- garaetjjte 2y ago
  >Once the SD card was bonded to your phone it was not reuseable elsewhere It password-protected the card (using CMD42). You can remove password while erasing the card, but most devices weren't aware of password protection feature at all. SD actually stands for "Super Density", optical disc format that was replaced by DVD but they already had the logo designed and apparently didn't want let it go to waste. https://www.global.toshiba/ww/news/corporate/1995/11/pr0701.html https://www.global.toshiba/ww/news/corporate/1995/11/pr0701....
raxxor 2y ago
Basically the idea of hardware/software attestation. This is the "security" people try to sell you with secure boot mechanisms and signed software. Don't use media that relies on it for your own sake.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Don't use media that relies on it when you're not the one managing it. These features are cool when you control them. Digital signature verification on Redhat is great.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    Even if you are managing it, you should still avoid it unless the hardware is designed so that it's inherently impossible for it to be used any other way. Otherwise you're financially supporting the problem.

181 points by josephcsible 2y ago

kristjansson 2y ago

Drives for/from Digital Cinema Packages?

supriyo-biswas 2y ago
I wonder whether the "owning" argument against DRM and streaming media can be solved with physical media which you can still own. Although, realistically we'll just end up with a drive that locks the user out of critical parts of the operating system and system data to ensure lock-in, which is related to the "restrictions" and "freedom" part of DRM.

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago

I truly hate how the battle against DRM is slowly being lost, and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. This should simply be illegal and considered a human rights violation. At least hardware vendors should not be able to claim that they sell you the hardware and that you own it, they should be upfront about it being a rental agreement, and you should be able to cancel that agreement and return the hardware with a full refund at any time.

pmontra 2y ago
Don't give them ideas. 99 dollars per month to use your/their laptop. 49 extra to unlock the performance cores. 99 more for the discrete graphic card. 39 for the AI chip.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Welcome to Intel On-Demand, formerly called Software Defined Silicon (SDSi): https://github.com/intel/intel-sdsi https://github.com/intel/intel-sdsi From the README: Intel® Xeon® family processors with support for Intel® On Demand (formerly known as Software Defined Silicon or SDSi) allow the configuration of additional CPU features through a license activation process.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    The first generations of Raspberry Pi had the same with video codecs, IIRC MPEG and h264, to keep the price down for educational users but make it usable for people doing stuff with video.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      h.264 was licensed out of the box, but MPEG2 was not, you had to buy a license tied to your board (or processor) serial number to accelerate DVD playback on these systems.
    - eth0up 2y ago
      I recently swapped from Debian to OpenSuse and before the first zypper dist-upgrade, verified non OSS was enabled. Then I proceeded to edit videos in openshot, which couldn't recognize the most common formats. Man, I scratched half me hair off me ed after seeing VLC handle everything right beside it. No simple solutions were to be found on forums until after a eureka, I specifically searched with word "codecs". Turned out I had to install the packman-easentials repo, then grab the forbidden codecs. Reminded me of the early 2000s, where things were pretty finicky gettin a functional setup in Linuxland.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > Turned out I had to install the packman-easentials repo, then grab the forbidden codecs. Reminded me of the early 2000s, where things were pretty finicky gettin a functional setup in Linuxland. Windows world wasn't much better with "codec packs" that led to all sorts of shenanigans - version mismatches that led to issues with games, people spicing up codecs and packs with malware, people mixing and matching stuff from various versions and sources haphazardly for "better performance", quite a few weren't freeware but shareware or paid and subsequently cracked, legitimate installers that distributed adware, download sites injecting adware ('member Sourceforge? [1]), SEO and DDoS wars between mal/adware spreaders... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31110206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31110206
bayindirh 2y ago
Well, in most cases they won't be able to get Microsoft PC certification, so it's not going to happen. Hardware vendors are the wrong tree to bark at. Most of these requirements are passed down by Microsoft and content lobbies. If they require your PC to be tinkerable/repairable; higher end devices will come with a "toolbox loaded with high quality tools to ease and improve the experience", "for no additional charge", as a selling point.
- grishka 2y ago
  > Microsoft PC certification Why is that a thing to begin with? What happens if a PC doesn't have it? It's not like Windows would refuse to run on it.
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    It's a thing because people want to control other people. This is what it all boils down to, sadly.
    - xbmcuser 2y ago
      It's less about control and more about unhindered capitilism. Something a lot of people have blinders on about this is about capitilism and the world is fast moving towards a big fracture between the haves and have nots.
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        It's both - i.e. control is means to an end, which is setting up the rules so that we are forced to live on their terms, which mostly boils down to paying them for the stuff they want us to pay. DRM is fundamentally an attempt to rewrite reality, or at least the computing aspects of it, in ways that are not possible to do with laws of physics in general. An idealized DRM setup establishes a faux reality, a virtual environment running on top of reality, in which bits have extra rules to it - codifying the weaker attempt of what IP regulations are doing to information in general, i.e. establishing a faux legal reality, in which bits carry colour, and with it restrictions and consequences. The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us.
_blk 2y ago
While I can totally relate to the sentiment, I strongly differ in the view that the battle against DRM is being lost. It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Don't like it, don't buy it. Vendor didn't stick to their promise? Sell the hardware to someone who wants it and submit a review or a comment.. I don't like DRM either for many use cases but it's not often that I feel violated to use or buy a product against my will.
- Joker_vD 2y ago
  > It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's hard to buy alternatives when they literally don't exist, nobody is willing to provide them, and those who would maybe like to provide them, are quickly shut down by the industry's self-regulation mechanisms.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  When there's a one ring to bind them all (Microsoft PC platform certification), and everybody needs to cater to it, you can't do anything besides allowing your PC to play nice with Linux kernel, if you want to sell that device and make some money. OTOH, it's greatly helpful that Lennart Pottering of systemd is working squarely for Microsoft, enabling more and more of SecureBoot and TPM functionality in systemd to protect the users and systems' integrity in the face of adversarial attacks, so the PC can be TiVo-ized once and for all, after all. What a great era to be alive. BTW, this is exactly Capitalism, functioning as intended: extract value from a market for the shareholders of a company or an entity.
- friendzis 2y ago
  > It's nothing that capitalism couldn't fix. Free market could fix this, however unrestrained capitalism is, at it's core, anything but free. > Don't like it, don't buy it In practice DRM and majority of content go hand in hand, therefore the DRM compromise places majority of content on the compromise scale. Don't like DRM, don't buy access to entertainment. That's a much tougher sell than it might seem at a first glance. Unless the dominant majority shares your sentiment regarding DRM, you are on a losing side of the battle.
eecc 2y ago
OTOH, it allows you to implement secure vaults for your personal and most important data. It all depends on how access to these privileged interfaces is managed.
- ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
  Yes, the technology is not inherently evil, but some applications of it are. We shouldn't put bans on the tech, but we should put bans on usages of it which takes away personal freedom. Using it to implement secure vaults for your personal data is a way to actually improve personal security, and I can get behind that. Using it to prevent software from even running on your device claims to improve personal security, but actually it is mainly about asserting control over you. Yes, it improves security as a side effect, but it does so by taking away your freedom.
  - nonrandomstring 2y ago
    > a way to actually improve personal security, I'm not sure this is true. I've studied trust models in some depth now and I think that cryptographic enclaves are at best an analgesic and sedative. Don't fall for any myth of symmetrical technology that can be used "for evil or good". The purpose of this technology is to assert logical ownership over computation under remote physical control of another. That would serve your interests and rights iff you purchase a cloud computing resource you want to make secure in an untrustworthy data-centre. Sadly "security" gets used as a bare noun. One must always ask three questions: - security for who? - security against who or what? - security to what end? DRM is a generally a net loss to security of the physical machine owner, since it is a way to hide code and functionality within the perimeter of ownership and control. It's no worse than blobs or treacherous silicon, but any security conscious operator should avoid or remove it. It is opaque "security" for vendors/content-publishers, and "security" against the owner and operator.
    - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
      I think it makes sense in very narrow use cases such as hardware security modules for key management, giving the user a somewhat strong guarantee that there is a one-to-one correspondence between control of the key and physical ownership of the HSM. This is an example where limitations of what you can do with the hardware is the primary feature of the hardware and the reason the user acquired it in the first place. It is analogous to physical locks being hard to pick by design. Any use of enclaves for DRM are unethical though, and solutions such as Play Integrity API is a commingling of security guarantees and totalitarian control over the user. Instead of proving to a service provider (such as your bank) that your whole phone is running a verified software and hardware stack, it suffices to communicate with a HSM with which you verify that the transaction to be authorized (1) comes from your bank, and (2) has a description which aligns with what you expect. The HSM can be built into the phone or be an external device with a small screen, but it should never ever enforce how you use the rest of the phone, it should only solve the narrow security issue of authorizing critical transactions.
jjcob 2y ago
I was so happy when HDMI caught on that the troubles with VGA ports in meeting rooms were finally a thing of the past. But now I randomly get "HDCP not supported" messages when trying to make a presentation because... I have no idea why. It's just a giant fuck you from the recording industry. I could download a torrent of any movie I want, so the tech is obviously not preventing piracy. It's just making random things in life harder than they should be.
- geraldhh 2y ago
  > the troubles with VGA ports in meeting rooms please elaborate fwiw vga is plug and play, but multi-monitor support in operating systems was indeed a pia
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    VGA/DB15 is not a hot-plug connection by default. That part started with DVI.
    - M95D 2y ago
      No, it started with DDC and was used since Win95, the first PnP OS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        Being PnP doesn't imply any hot-plugging capability. DDC allows digital means of changing data and letting the OS know what the monitor can do. It doesn't allow/enable hot-plugging. Since the interface doesn't support hot plugging by design, there's no standard way to detect a new VGA peripheral. However, manufacturers flexed the standard to try to enable hot-plug, but it doesn't work reliably, as we seen for years. Similarly, PS2, SATA, PCI are not hot-plug by default, even if they're PnP. PS2 required standards bending, SATA had to wait AHCI, and PCI had to wait PCIe to gain hot-plugging support. To add to the list, IDE drives required special hardware, and RAM requires chipset and board support to be hot-pluggable. RAM has myriad of ways of identifying itself, making it truly PnP out of the box. So, being PnP doesn't mean anything, from a hot-plug perspective. They're very different things.
nicman23 2y ago
just do not use them. actually vote with your wallet.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  In theory this works, but when you have 4 banks in your country, and all 4 require this, you're basically fscked.
  - nicman23 2y ago
    your bank requires drm? what.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      Not drm per-se I was commenting this (from above): > and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. Many banking apps (and other payment apps) won't work on phones with custom android builds, nor on phones with unlocked bootloaders, same for rooted phones. But yeah, in turn, unless you have a "dedicated banking phone", this will mean that people will stay with the official OS's with all the DRM features included. (or well.. as we in the balkans do, pirate stuff)
      - surajrmal 2y ago
        Do you think your bank is obligated to run its software on your arbitrary device? Why? If, for its own risk tolerance of fraud, it needs to ensure nothing has messed with its app, shouldn't they have the right to refuse? You've not paid anything for the app, it's simply a venue for a service they offer. I would not like to live in a world where I need to pay extra to ensure some folks want "freedom". Fraud indirectly is a tax on all of us. There should obviously be limits on what we put up with, but I'm not sold this limitation is where the line should be drawn
GuB-42 2y ago
They probably shouldn't have called it "DRM" here. It can be used for DRM, but it can also be used to secure your own data, and calling it "DRM" is unclear on what feature it is. What standard does it follow? The technology that can prevent a thief from getting all your data from your computer is the same that prevents you from ripping media files, the only difference is who owns the keys, but that part is out of scope for a SSD.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hansvm 2y ago
> return the hardware at any time "Any time" might be a stretch, but I've had no problems returning hardware which, after unboxing and/or setting it up, I found violated basic expectations and didn't have those limitations listed in the specs (no, I'm not buying and maintaining an un-rooted Android AND granting location services and other such permissions just to set up your special snowflake printer, and if your OBD-II control app works via a webview and one day starts requiring a subscription for the device I "purchased" then that's going straight back to the store/manufacturer even years later, ...).
- TheJoeMan 2y ago
  Regarding the printer comment, I've bought HP printers that have stickers covering the USB port with a "NO" symbol, and removing the sticker the port works just fine. I'd like to think there is an engineer in the belly of the beast ensuring this stuff slips past the marketing team.

anilakar 2y ago

So... one more reason to not buy the content and pirate it instead.

bdd 2y ago

I don't think in this very case it has anything to do with digital rights management. It detects an Intel SATA SSD, SSDSCKJF360A5L a disk that supports ATA Trusted Send/Receive commands used to interface with on-disk encryption features. Specifically 5B to 5F (reference: https://wiki.osdev.org/ATA_Command_Matrix https://wiki.osdev.org/ATA_Command_Matrix). To make things even more confusing, kernel refers to the command between 5C and 5F with the acronym TPM, and requires `libata.allow_tpm=1` command line parameter to be passed to allow issuing them. (kernel source reference: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v6.12/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c#L3134 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v6.12/drivers/ata/lib...), which has _nothing to do_ with the trusted platform module TPM, just another TLA clash. Here's the original commit from 2008. The naming is very likely through misassociation. TCG: Trusted Computing Group is most known for creating TPM specification. Another thing they work on is the OPAL specification for self encrypting drives. Author possibly clumped them into the same thing. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ae8d4ee7ff429136c8b482c3b38ed994c021d3fc https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ae8d4ee7ff429136c8b...

Maxious 2y ago
> I don't think in this very case it has anything to do with digital rights management. From your kernel source link > DVR type users will probably ship with this enabled for movie content management. Indeed where the DRM error message comes from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/ffd294d346d185b70e28b1a28abe367bbfe53c04/drivers/ata/libata-core.c#L2902 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/ffd294d346d185b70e28b... > CPRM may make this media unusable CPRM? > Content Protection for Recordable Media and Pre-Recorded Media (CPRM / CPPM) is a mechanism for restricting the copying, moving, and deletion of digital media on a host device, such as a personal computer, or other player. It is a form of digital rights management (DRM) developed by The 4C Entity, LLC (consisting of IBM, Intel, Matsushita and Toshiba). How can we be sure which CPRM it is though? Ah the kernel maintainers actually had an argument about it at the time https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5091 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5091 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5092 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5092
- bdd 2y ago

OptionOfT 2y ago

The S in SD stands for secure, and can be used for DRM purposes as well. Windows Phone 7 is the only one I know of that used it: https://web.archive.org/web/20110219215401/http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 https://web.archive.org/web/20110219215401/http://support.mi... Once the SD card was bonded to your phone it was not reuseable elsewhere.

forty 2y ago
OP is about SSD, 2 Ss, so twice as secure ;)
- dmichulke 2y ago
  just like homo sapiens sapiens is ehhh ... nevermind
- baal80spam 2y ago
  Super Secure Drive
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Looks to be 2 Ds, so Super Duper Drive ?
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > OP is about SSD, 2 Ss, so twice as secure ;) Like applying ROT13 twice?
kurtoid 2y ago
Some Garmin Marine units use SD cards for map updates (Bluechart), which also seem to use the S in SD
garaetjjte 2y ago
>Once the SD card was bonded to your phone it was not reuseable elsewhere It password-protected the card (using CMD42). You can remove password while erasing the card, but most devices weren't aware of password protection feature at all. SD actually stands for "Super Density", optical disc format that was replaced by DVD but they already had the logo designed and apparently didn't want let it go to waste. https://www.global.toshiba/ww/news/corporate/1995/11/pr0701.html https://www.global.toshiba/ww/news/corporate/1995/11/pr0701....

raxxor 2y ago

Basically the idea of hardware/software attestation. This is the "security" people try to sell you with secure boot mechanisms and signed software. Don't use media that relies on it for your own sake.

Spivak 2y ago
Don't use media that relies on it when you're not the one managing it. These features are cool when you control them. Digital signature verification on Redhat is great.
- josephcsible 2y ago
  Even if you are managing it, you should still avoid it unless the hardware is designed so that it's inherently impossible for it to be used any other way. Otherwise you're financially supporting the problem.