4 ms·

I don't advocate war, but I'd prefer a relationship similar to Russia or North Korea. No trade whatsoever. No trade with nations that trade with China.

ppqqrr 2y ago
Well, to a large extent, the reason Russia and North Korea are hopeless backwaters ruled by petty dictators and filled with suffering… is precisely because nobody would trade with or invest in them. And when they predictably fall into dysfunction and despair, they end up threatening everyone’s peace. You reap what you sow. We need to do better.
- azan_ 2y ago
  That's completely wrong. All of Europe heavily traded with Russia, and Germany even wanted to base their green transformation plan primarily on trade with Russia.
  - ppqqrr 2y ago
    By which point, Russia was already in the hands of a dictator. Too late and too little, as they say. But yes, obviously, every country deserves a large share of blame for its own situation. Either way - even if I concede this, my point stands that starving nations and denying them development isn't a great long term strategy for peace.
- synecdoche 2y ago
  This argument is in my opinion backwards and therefore does not make sense. First willingness to do well by themselves must be demonstrated sufficiently to gain interest and trust, then healthy and mutually beneficial friendship may begin. On state as on individual level.
8note 2y ago
in october, the US did >$300M of trade with russia. looks like trade with NK is quite small, but non-zero as well ( https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5790.html https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5790.html ) i imagine its much larger for both if you include bitcoin transactions
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
> No trade with nations that trade with China. You do realize that many countries are going to do the math and pick China right? You would basically be cutting us off from at least half of the world, and underground trade would flourish to china’s benefit. Russia and North Korea don’t really make anything we need (well, Russian titanium is nice), but more important, they don’t provide much value to other countries (Russian oil and gas, and that’s it). But China? Ya, good luck with that.
- stcroixx 2y ago
  Maybe, but I don't think that would be the outcome. It's a risk I'd be willing to take. Personally I'd never side with communists for any reason at all, even if it meant my life became a little more difficult.

ppqqrr 2y ago

Well, to a large extent, the reason Russia and North Korea are hopeless backwaters ruled by petty dictators and filled with suffering… is precisely because nobody would trade with or invest in them. And when they predictably fall into dysfunction and despair, they end up threatening everyone’s peace. You reap what you sow. We need to do better.

azan_ 2y ago
That's completely wrong. All of Europe heavily traded with Russia, and Germany even wanted to base their green transformation plan primarily on trade with Russia.
- ppqqrr 2y ago
  By which point, Russia was already in the hands of a dictator. Too late and too little, as they say. But yes, obviously, every country deserves a large share of blame for its own situation. Either way - even if I concede this, my point stands that starving nations and denying them development isn't a great long term strategy for peace.
synecdoche 2y ago
This argument is in my opinion backwards and therefore does not make sense. First willingness to do well by themselves must be demonstrated sufficiently to gain interest and trust, then healthy and mutually beneficial friendship may begin. On state as on individual level.

8note 2y ago

in october, the US did >$300M of trade with russia. looks like trade with NK is quite small, but non-zero as well ( https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5790.html https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5790.html ) i imagine its much larger for both if you include bitcoin transactions

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

> No trade with nations that trade with China. You do realize that many countries are going to do the math and pick China right? You would basically be cutting us off from at least half of the world, and underground trade would flourish to china’s benefit. Russia and North Korea don’t really make anything we need (well, Russian titanium is nice), but more important, they don’t provide much value to other countries (Russian oil and gas, and that’s it). But China? Ya, good luck with that.

stcroixx 2y ago
Maybe, but I don't think that would be the outcome. It's a risk I'd be willing to take. Personally I'd never side with communists for any reason at all, even if it meant my life became a little more difficult.