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Higher potassium intake at dinner linked to fewer sleep disturbances – study
- Etheryte 2y agoI wouldn't read too much into the title, the closing parts of the article give a much more balanced take on the whole issue. This study disagrees with some previous work and it's unclear which result makes sense and why. As usual, more research is needed, and while a catchy title is nice, this isn't anything to change your dietary habits by,
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- grues-dinner 2y ago> this isn't anything to change your dietary habits by But I already have k-intake.io registered, have hired a CTO for a potassium monitor wearable, app and data pipeline and am working on my pitch deck!
- matthewdgreen 2y agoYou may joke, but these folks have been promoting/investigating an all-potato diet, and have determine that maybe potassium is what's causing weight loss. https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2024/03/20/second-potato-riffs-report/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2024/03/20/second-potato-riffs...
- Etheryte 2y agoOn one hand, if I squint hard enough, I can almost see it, but not exactly for the reasons they propose. Potatoes are infamous for having an extremely high satiety index, that is, you feel very full after eating them. If that holds, it would be easy to see how it could lead to weight loss, since you would feel full earlier and thus eat less. All that aside, almost all of the results they show are deep within statistical error bounds. My weight easily varies 5lbs (2kg) within a week, saying you lost that amount after a month of diet doesn't really say much to me. I could weigh myself a week from now and say I lost that, then one week on and say I regained it.
- JoBrad 2y agoThe first graph shows a loss of ~30lbs in 30 days. That’s not typical weight fluctuation.
- OutOfHere 2y agochoices = [ 1/4 tsp of potassium bicarbonate powder in 8 oz of water, 200 mg L-theanine, 30 minutes of a podcast, ] while choices and not sleep: choice = choices.pop(0) take_choice(choice) wait(25 * 60)
- Beijinger 2y agoCould you elaborate this?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y agoYou will remove the last listed “choice” from the list and “take” it (presumably one “takes” a podcast by watching it). After taking each choice, you will wait for 25 minutes, during which time you are expected to fall asleep. If you do not fall asleep in those 25 minutes you will repeat this process with the now-current last item in the list. If the list is exhausted and you are still awake, you and the program terminate.
- Beijinger 2y agoBut what is the underlying science for these substances?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y agoI dunno, I was just interpreting their pseudo-code.
- mgraczyk 2y agoStrangely the original study misstates the direction of the main finding, contradicting itself directly. Is this a typo, or something more nefarious? From the abstract: Multiple regression analyses revealed that individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily potassium intake From the body of the paper (supported by the results): Multiple regression analysis indicated that individuals with a higher potassium intake had lower AIS scores.
- OutOfHere 2y agoThat is true. From section 2.6 of the full-text: > The sleep disturbances were assessed using the Athens Insomnia Scale [ 19], a self-administered psychometric questionnaire designed to evaluate sleep disorders, particularly insomnia [ 20 ]. It consists of eight items rated on a Likert scale ranging from 0 “no problem at all” to 3 “very severe” [ 20]. The total score ranges from 0 (absence of any sleep-related problems) to 24 (the most severe degree of insomnia). Severity is classified as normal for scores of 3 or less, subclinical insomnia for scores of greater than 3 but less than 6, and clinical insomnia for scores of 6 or more [19,21,22].
- rolandog 2y agoThe contradiction is more clear when comparing the abstract: > [...] Results: Multiple regression analyses revealed that individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily potassium intake; potassium at dinner was especially crucial. [...] and section 3.2: > 3.2. Association Between AIS Score and Dietary Patterns of Sodium and Potassium > Multiple regression analysis was conducted to investigate the association between AIS scores and dietary patterns of sodium and potassium intake (Table 3). Total daily potassium intake was inversely associated with log AIS score (β = −0.036; p = 0.034). When intake at each meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks) was analyzed separately, only potassium intake at dinner remained significantly associated with AIS score (β = −0.066; p = 0.003), suggesting that higher potassium intake at dinner may be linked to fewer sleep disturbances. No significant associations were observed for the sodium-to-potassium ratio.
- 2y ago
- desktopninja 2y agoLearnt from my grandmother to eat plenty bananas before bedtime. It helped with my asthma and swear too that it did wonders for my sleep. Usually had it with a hot curry at dinner time or dessert (sliced bananas, cubed apples and evaparoted milk.)
- ortusdux 2y agoI knew a guy that would eat a banana per beer. He would portion the bananas out beforehand, so we could tell he was serious when he showed up to a stag-do with two bunches!
- airstrike 2y agoAnecdotally, I always had much better sleep and mornings every time I remembered to eat a banana (or two!) before going to bed after a night of heavy drinking...
- throw03172019 2y agoOh man that’s a lot of bloat! Beer + sugar
- username135 2y agoThat is so many bananas
- desktopninja 2y agoi don't drink anymore but if offered i'd down without hesitation a wells banana bread beer or banana beer. tasty stuff
- TriangleEdge 2y agoBananas aren't high in potassium. That's a myth. A banana has 450mg and a potato has 650mg.
- rainclouds 2y agoSadly I don’t think French fries have the same effect.
- numpad0 2y agoIIUC, Na is used like signaling medium in body and alkaline metals that isn't Na tends to reduce blood pressure, slow heartbeat and neural activity. With that in mind, it sounds reasonable that those tendency could lead to slightly deeper sleep. Or is there something else to it?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lazyeye 2y agoI haven't heard of potassium before.
- FullGarden_S 2y agoI take potassium capsules frequently and magnesium capsules whenever I smoke, which is occasionally. Both of them were effective and help me with reducing anxiety and relieving stress.
- Beijinger 2y agoPo in the periodic system. At least for Americans ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- x3n0ph3n3 2y agoI sure hope you aren't consuming Po. It's usually only consumed by targets of Russian assassination.
- Earw0rm 2y agoA teaspoonful of Po in your tea, and all your problems with insomnia will be solved forever.
- selimthegrim 2y agoWell there goes my hopes of marketing potooooo ooo with a horse logo. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42729604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42729604
- Gravey 2y agoK.
- x3n0ph3n3 2y agoIt's often called Kalium internationally. The atomic symbol is Ka.
- brcmthrowaway 2y agoMy main problem is waking up too early. Any silver bullet for that?
- toenail 2y agoGo to bed later?
- notfed 2y agoMove west...
- etrautmann 2y agoEdibles can sometimes be effective
- NiekvdMaas 2y agoI had the same issue. Taking magnesium citrate 30 mins before bed fixed this completely. See also: https://examine.com/supplements/magnesium/ https://examine.com/supplements/magnesium/
- Traubenfuchs 2y agoPreventing light from reaching your eyes in the morning either via sleeping mask or good blinds + making sure there are no electric lights visible. In other words: sleeping in total darkness until you want to wake up.
- snvzz 2y agoFast. If anything, increase the number of hours without eating before bed.
- amanaplanacanal 2y agoFor me, I'd have to get rid of my dog.
- natebc 2y agoWhich, at least for me would be a massive decline in quality of life.
- shreezus 2y agoI know this isn't related to potassium directly, but anecdotally I have had success using magnesium supplements for insomnia/improving general sleep quality. I have also been consuming electrolyte mixes containing potassium to help with muscle recovery from training, and have found them to help with physical soreness & general well-being.
- declan_roberts 2y agoMy wife convinced me to take a bath with magnesium once when I was stressed. Afterwards I got up, went to bed, and slept like an absolute rock.
- noman-land 2y agoDo you know what it actually does and how it does it?
- cbg0 2y agoIf you took a bath in hot water, that has its own effects on the body, as it will lower your blood pressure, it can also relax your muscles, so you need to try it out without the magnesium to see if it did anything.
- echoangle 2y agoThat doesn’t tell you a lot. You would have to take a bath with and without magnesium, and without knowing whether it’s with or without magnesium, and then write down the effect for each bath. Currently, it could just be the effect of the bath itself or placebo.
- SquibblesRedux 2y agoAn interesting paper on transdermal magnesium: Myth or Reality—Transdermal Magnesium? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/ The short story -- As of 2017 the jury is still out as to whether something like an Epsom salt bath may be beneficial because of the magnesium.
- supriyo-biswas 2y agoLink to the study itself: https://doi.org/10.3390/nu17010148 https://doi.org/10.3390/nu17010148
- paulg2222 2y ago[dead]
- Traubenfuchs 2y agoThe real shocking information I gained from this paper is that the AIS goes from 0-24 (0 = perfect sleep, 24 = total insomnia) and the study participants had an amazing average AIS score of 4.3 (SD 3.3)! Wow, how well all those people must sleep! As someone scoring 12, it's pretty bad and I am suffering a lot while trying to sleep and during day time because I did not sleep well. If my understanding of statistics, standard deviations and the standardized partial regression coefficient are correct, potassium supplementation in the evening only DECREASES this score by about 0.2178 (Beta −0.066, multiplied with SD of 3.3), which is kinda worthless. Please correct me if I am wrong.
- OutOfHere 2y agoIt decreases the score. It doesn't increase the score. An increase would be harmful. The beta is negative. The abstract is wrong. It is not worthless. For good sleep, potassium levels have to be adequate. Once one improves the level, one can move on to other factors. As for what works for me, avoiding caffeine after 12 pm helps, as does sunlight exposure in the daytime. With regard to a supplement stack, these help: collagen hydrolysate 12g, magnesium citrate, calcium, B6 as P5P, melatonin 4 mg, L-theanine 100-200 mg, and various sleep promoting herbs. Ensure your BP is optimal, well below 120/80 for most people under 70. Uncorrected acid reflux too worsens sleep, but avoiding consumption in the last three hours and also famotidine help.
- Traubenfuchs 2y ago> It decreases the score. Yes DECREASE instead of INCREASE. What I was going for in my head was "improve" I guess. Thanks for pointing that out. > B6 as P5P Don't forget it's one of the few nutrients that accumulates and that you can get too much of. It causes nerve damage and mystery sores. > melatonin 4 mg That's probably too much: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-...
- OutOfHere 2y agoThe P5P form harms less if in excess. This is in contrast to the default form which is pyridoxine. I have found 20 mg of P5P twice daily to be quite useful for keeping stress spikes in check. Regarding melatonin, newer data up to 2024 in https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38888087/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38888087/ confirms that 4 mg is an optimal dose for sleep. For a discussion, search for this article on r/FoodNerds.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y agoThere are plenty of studies exploring this that don't come from weird websites. A recent one: - https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10168 https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10168 Many, many more
- OutOfHere 2y agoWhat exactly is it that makes the website you linked not weird, and the original website weird?
- haffi112 2y agoThe original website is a news report of an article. The one he posted is from a peer-reviewed journal which has a much higher standard of reporting. The information there is reported by scientists with expertise in the field. You cannot expect the same level of rigour from journalists that try to sensationalise findings to get more clicks.
- OutOfHere 2y agoNews articles have a valid purpose of popularizing journal articles for the vast majority of people who will feel lost looking at a journal article directly. A news article should be compared to another news article, not to a journal article. A journal article can however be compared with another journal article. I understand that the journal article you linked might be superior.
- semking 2y agoI strongly recommend watching this video on the effect of potassium on cardiovascular disease (like stroke)! Re-Balancing One Essential Nutrient to Protect against Stroke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liW9F6gLwgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liW9F6gLwgQ
- eth0up 2y agoI have a bottle of potassium based salt substitute that I use to supplement K. Can anyone here clarify the pros/cons of this? It's quite wretched by itself, but if used very sparingly is not bad with many foods. As I'm sure all know, K in supplemental form is FDA regulated and one would need to take up to 1/2 a bottle to reach the RDA, whereas in salt sub form a single, unpleasant serving can get close to the RDA. I think it's in chloride form... Edit: fsckin android keypad
- elric 2y agoPSA: before you start supplementing potassium (or gorging on bananans or potatoes), please be aware that too moch potassium can lead to heart rhythm disturbances, and that some common medications (like anti-hypertensives) can have further predispose you to developing hyperkalemia.
- Nemi 2y agoWhile true, this is overblown. RDA for potassium intake is 3500-5000mg daily for an adult male. Most people do not get close to this amount. Potassium supplements are 99mg per pill. You have to take a lot of pills to reach that level. Getting too much potassium by eating potassium-rich foods would be difficult without an underlying kidney disorder. Having said that, don’t be a dumb-a* and take too much of a good thing.
- davidanekstein 2y agoIt depends on how you take it. If you chug almost liter of coconut water (like I did) you can get palpitations (like I did). That has >500mg potassium in a form more bioavailable than say a banana or butternut squash. Also the RDA is not something you should have all at once. That’s a sure way to disrupt your heart.
- sfn42 2y agoI've experienced palpitations after having Indian food, could coconut milk cause that?
- manmal 2y agoA medium sized potato has that amount, I doubt it’d be the coconut milk to blame. Also, coconut water != coconut milk
- pkaye 2y agoIts common after eating certain kinds of foods. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22416-heart-palpitations-after-eating https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22416-heart-p...
- pards 2y agoSite fails to scroll with ublock in my browser/adguard on my network.
- randerson 2y agoWhat isn't mentioned is that bananas and other potassium-rich foods are alkaline, and so can neutralize stomach acid reflux. Acid reflux is a common source of poor sleep quality. So that could be one explanation for the fewer sleep disturbances.
- rendaw 2y agoBananas have a pH of around 4.5 for unripe bananas to 6 for ripe bananas, so are acidic.
- randerson 2y agoHuh. I am admittedly neither a doctor nor chemist, but I was told this by a doctor, and anecdotally bananas seem to help me with reflux. Looking on the web, there does seem to be conflicting advice.
- seunosewa 2y agoThey are high in fibre and can thicken the fluid in the stomach. Maybe that's how they help.
- rendaw 2y agoI'd heard claims like that before and I was curious so I googled a bit more. It sounds like there's this thing "PRAL" or "potential renal acid load" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_renal_acid_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_renal_acid_load where the affect on stomach acid can be different from a food's pH. But again, the wikipedia article links to some random people's blogs and a single research article from 2019. I'm not sure if this is well supported by research.
- _yb2s 2y agoExactly- this is based on how it alters urine pH, and there is a whole alternative medicine thing around assuming this is extremely important- but the entire idea seems unconvincing to me. Both stomach and blood pH are carefully regulated by feedback control and don’t themselves change much based on foods.
- assimpleaspossi 2y agoAre there any studies on these studies? There are so many of them--and they're issued multiple times of day on television "news"--that there has to be one.
- f1shy 2y agoI systematically flag “diet” studies here. (And most medicine related, specially if not the study itself, but a random article with yellow title) Some dietary studies are little better, some worse, but even the best, are very weak. It’s known (from other studies, yes the irony) that people have no idea what they eat. Forget, don’t pay attention… so is difficult to draw conclusions. Also diet habits correlate to so many other habits, that is difficult to know what helps and what doesn’t. Often is posted just a journalist view of it, not even the study (like this case) that is another red flag. Means that the article title is probably not so interesting. Last but not least, being a forum of mainly CS nerds, you have to really weed through the comments. When speaking about law many start with “not a lawyer but” but seldom I see “not a doctor, but”. I’ve just seen too often people very opinionated about medicine topics of which they have no idea. Luckily is relatively easy to detect, but can be very misleading. The less the people know about something, the more sure they are they know it all. I need to state the obvious: never ever take medical advice at face value from HN.
- pedalpete 2y agoA self reported insomnia study has very poor accuracy. There is no reason in this day and age they are not using a sleep tracker to measure sleep onset. Also, there is a correlation between potassium and magnesium levels, and they measured potassium intake, but no mention of magnesium. It is possible that the subjects with highest potassium intake also had higher magnesium levels. I'm not saying the study is wrong, but it does make a good point to the people taking magnesium to help sleep, they should also be taking potassium. I'll be trying that over the next little bit.
- bookofjoe 2y agoSeriously? When I've posted similar items [1] of similar provenance, they've been flagged in an HN minute. [1] https://imgur.com/a/aolYez5 https://imgur.com/a/aolYez5