6 ms·
There's no problem with residential water use in Phoenix. There are still farms that could be shut down if water is needed. The biggest problem seems to be par
by kevinpet 2y ago
There's no problem with residential water use in Phoenix. There are still farms that could be shut down if water is needed.
The biggest problem seems to be parochial NIMBYs. People don't like that TSMC needed to bring in Taiwanese workers to staff up the plant. They are currently posting AI generated renderings of factories with billowing smoke stacks when talking about the proposed Amkor semiconductor packaging plant in Peoria.
- therein 2y ago[flagged]
- Apes 2y ago[flagged]
- zaik 2y ago20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!
- bcrosby95 2y agoLots of the farms exist to provide year around salad. What is more important, year around salad or computer chips? Economically, for Arizona, the answer is pretty clear. This is also why I laugh when people in wet areas talk crap about my state's water problem. My state's problem is your problem too buddy.
- QuercusMax 2y agoAlso, eating raw salad veggies (lettuce in particular) is one of the best ways to get foodborne illnesses like E. Coli.
- alphager 2y agoThe US is a major food exporter with a supply around 125%. Shutting down a few farms in the desert seems worthwhile.
- adamc 2y agoDoing anything that uses a lot of water in a desert seems problematic to me. Water is only going to get scarcer in the west as climate change goes on.
- Dylan16807 2y ago> Water is only going to get scarcer in the west as climate change goes on. Predictions are all over the place but the average prediction seems to say that at least half the US gets more water.
- adamc 2y agoNot in the west, from what I've seen. The state I grew up in, Illinois, is definitely trending toward being more humid. If you've seen otherwise and have references, I'm interested. I'm thinking about where to live next.
- Dylan16807 2y agohttps://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-what-climate-models-tell-us-about-future-rainfall/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-what-climate-models-te... https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth103/sites/www.e-education.psu.edu.earth103/files/module08/precip.jpg https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth103/sites/www.e-educati... These are the ones that showed up first. Drying in the southwest is more likely than in the northwest, probably. The specifics are all over. But the bigger distinctions tend to be north versus south.
- Root_Denied 2y agoI think the reasoning here is to have the fabrication being done away from areas where a natural disaster might cause an issue. No earthquakes, no tornadoes, no hurricanes, no heavy winter storms with a ton of snow, etc. If you locate it on an elevated area with good drainage there won't be any problems with desert storms/flooding either.
- mywittyname 2y agoAt least the fabs can recycle the majority of their water. Unlike farms which use more than is needed and are likely producing animal feed for international animals. I get your point, but not all farms are created equal. Is it really so bad to shut down farms that grow feed for Arab race horses to produce computer chips?
- therein 2y ago> I get your point, but not all farms are created equal. Is it really so bad to shut down farms that grow feed for Arab race horses to produce computer chips? That, I agree. I noticed a sibling comment also mentioned that. If the farms in question are of that kind, it is reasonable. I'd just like to object to the creation of a general sense of sacrificing farms for fabs.
- mlyle 2y agoHaving water artificially cheap for agricultural uses is a mistake. If you're concerned about food security, subsidize actual food that could go to people in some way, but let water hit a real market price. Else, we end up subsidizing water for clever export and other uses we don't really want, and we remove any incentive for efficiency in water use.
- School-Cotton 2y ago> I'd just like to object to the creation of a general sense of sacrificing farms for fabs. "I was wrong, but I think my comment was still right based on vibes, so I wasn't wrong after all."
- timewizard 2y agoFarms recycle the majority of their water as well. Just instead of it looping inside of a closed process it returns to the broader environment.
- lovich 2y agoreally stretching the definition of recycle there. Material staying within a closed loop is kind of a requirement for something to be recycled. The farms don't do anything to keep the water available and have to extract more water from other sources
- mtoner23 2y agotheres not exactly a lack of food in this country
- pstuart 2y agoA fair amount of that farm water is to grow alfalfa for the Saudi's dairy industry. So it's not all essential to US food security...
- awongh 2y agoArizona and California have outdated water management laws that basically mean that big agriculture gets free water. Until recently Saudi Arabia was using these laws to grow alfalfa in the desert. In California, water intensive crops like almond trees get free water. https://youtu.be/XusyNT_k-1c https://youtu.be/XusyNT_k-1c https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/climate/arizona-saudi-arabia-alfalfa-groundwater.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/climate/arizona-saudi-ara...
- mikhailfranco 2y agoAlso see the Resnicks' water storage scheme for their almond/pistachio empire: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/lynda-stewart-resnick-california-water/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/lynda-stewar... The report has a graph showing their farms consume more water then all LA homes. "Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown."
- amanaplanacanal 2y agoYes, but... The way the law works is that the farms own that water. The state would likely have to use eminent domain and pay fair market value if they want to take it away. I have no idea what that would cost.
- awongh 2y agoI mean, yes, use eminent domain to take the water… and then get TSMC to pay for it. Maybe another big player in the system would even help build momentum to get these laws changed permanently…
- csallen 2y agoThis is an extremely over-simplified take. It depends on entirely on what the farms are producing, their water efficiency, etc. Nobody would seriously suggest that people go hungry so that we can have more chips, so responding as if that's the actual suggestion is unwarranted.
- gosub100 2y ago> Who needs food when you have 4nm chips. Who needs logic and reason when you have false dichotomy?
- x3n0ph3n3 2y agoWe don't need farms in Phoenix. Farming in the middle of the desert where there's already limited water is pretty stupid.
- shiroiushi 2y agoThe place is a desert. Growing crops in a desert takes a lot of water, as you might imagine. A smarter thing to do is to not try to grow crops in a desert where it needs so much irrigation. The US has plenty of non-desert land for growing essential crops.
- chii 2y agodesert weather is consistent(ly warm sunny). Irrigation being the missing factor means that you can have a nice long growing season, undisrupted by bad weather, or storms or any other number of unpredictable factors.
- School-Cotton 2y agoIt’s also worth nothing that the TSMC plant is basically as far north as it’s possible to be while still counting as part of the (huge) Phoenix metro area. The vast majority of the 5 million residents of that metro area are nowhere near the plant and very unlikely to be affected by it in any way.
- unixhero 2y agoAs long as they don't have two microwaves in their household* * humor
- School-Cotton 2y agoI don't get it...