8 ms·
Tesla Sales Are Tanking in Europe
- darthrupert 2y agohttps://fortune.com/2025/01/13/tesla-beats-audi-global-car-sales/ https://fortune.com/2025/01/13/tesla-beats-audi-global-car-s...
- ddalex 2y ago"beats" in the sense that it dropped less, not that it grew more. Also this article is about EU, not Global
- sofixa 2y agoAudi is a single, premium, brand of one of the biggest automotive groups out there. It seems odd to single them out in particular and position Tesla outselling them, how is it relevant for anything? I bet they're outselling Dacia too, so what?
- petre 2y agoThe A4 is priced on parity with model 3, the Q5 on parity with model Y, so I guess that might be a hint. Why buy a dirty diesel when you can buy a Tesla for tfe same amount?
- rsynnott 2y agoBut clearly people _aren't_ doing that, because Tesla sales are falling. Those lost Audi sales are presumably largely going either to another VW AG brand, or to another manufacturer entirely.
- petre 2y agoLargely yes, although VW AG has problems of its own with the VW with falling profits. Their cheaper brands and also Cupra are doing okay. Toyota along with the other Japanese brands, BMW and Volvo are last years' winners. I think people in Europe are mostly buying hybrids. "Volkswagen and Toyota were again the best-selling car brands but BMW moved into third place followed by Skoda. Volvo and Suzuki increased sales sharply while Ford and Tesla struggled." https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-euro...
- croes 2y agoBeating a struggling manufacturer is useless. Investors want sold-more numbers not sold-more-than numbers.
- vman81 2y agoJust dropping a link like that about a car manufacturer doing even worse without any argument attached just comes across as coping or soviet style whataboutism. They just edged out Honda - a company with 4% of their market cap. Not really a slam dunk.
- rsynnott 2y agoAlso, Audi isn't even _really_ a car manufacturer; it's one of VW's 11 or so brands.
- Bengalilol 2y agoFYI Volkswagen PE ratio 3.47 Tesla PE ratio 117.65 Back in 2000, Cisco had a PE ratio of 196.2 It has now been 25 years and Cisco's stock price is almost back at its 2000 price (current PE ratio is 25.22). Nowadays, Alphabet (Google) has a PE ratio of 25.72. The sales of Tesla are not that great given the past 5 years and the investors are paying 117 times the future earnings. What could go wrong?
- airstrike 2y agoI don't think those are forward P/E multiples, so they really don't mean anything.
- Bengalilol 2y agoI took the forward PE ratio. The current PE ratio is at 110.
- airstrike 2y agoForward PE multiples can't be lower than trailing multiples unless you believe earnings will decrease next year. Interestingly, going off of Yahoo Finance, EPS did decrease in 2024, but I don't know their methodology. You'd have to scrub these numbers to make sure they are meaningful and I no longer have access to Bloomberg / FactSet / Capital IQ to do that... and I'm too lazy to pull up research reports and scrub manually ;-)
- Bengalilol 2y agoI have the same lack of Bloomberg access ^^ Anyways, forward PE ratios are generally lower right now (Alphabet for example has a forward PE of 22, current is at 25). There may be a lot of explanations regarding this situation, but globally it either implies worse macro economic conditions, or a decrease in revenues and/or profits, some high one-shot costs/loss to take into account (legal or structural), or most generally it can also reveal that current stock price is too high and some correction will happen. Given the current situation, I bet it says that stock is overpriced/valued.
- rsynnott 2y agoI mean, outselling one of VW AG's 11 car brands... okay? I'm not sure you can take much information from _that_, one way or another.
- niceice 2y agoEV sales are down in Europe generally. "Registrations of battery-electric cars declined by 9.5% to 130,757 units in November 2024. This drop was primarily driven by a significant decrease in registrations in Germany (-21.8%) and France (-24.4%)." https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-1-9-in-november-2024-year-to-date-battery-electric-sales-5-4/ https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations...
- twilo 2y agoCar sales in Europe are tanking generally
- jansan 2y agoI Germany car registrations were 1% down in 2024 compared to 2023. Tesla sold 41 percent fewer cars in Germany in 2024 compared to 2023. Official data: https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzulassungen/2025/pm01_2025_n_12_24_pm_komplett.html https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzula...
- rcarmo 2y ago
- misja111 2y agoWell that's not really surprising. Competition has picked up, also there used to be a lot of government subsidies on EV's, many of those were cut.
- throwaway5752 2y agoThis is expected. Elon Musk is being sanctioned for interfering in European elections and in unprecedentedly involved in the administration of an administration that has made annexing, by military force if necessary, the territory on an EU member and fellow NATO ally a centerpiece policy. There is not a lot of hard data, but https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51298-public-reaction-to-elon-musk-and-the-rows-over-child-grooming-gangs https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51298-public-reaction... indicates he is overwhelmingly unpopular and disliked in the UK. This is not a political comment. YouGov is one of the best pollers (rankings are based on past prediction quality, and easily confirmed with any search engine if you don't believe this). If a CEO is widely unpopular for whatever reasons and deeply identified with the brand, it will cause a problem.
- ge96 2y agoI used to be really pro Elon Musk, I love the advancements in space tech but man I'm sad of his behavior. I'm not a "hate rich people" guy, I know they say to think you can become one is a joke or something but yeah. I do believe in trying/possibility too. I'm proof of it in a small way.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fnqi8ckfek 2y ago[dead]
- nuccy 2y agoSame for me, I was a big fan of his engineering mindset, but even though he probably still has that, the negative stuff he says and now does completely overwhelms everything.
- wesselbindt 2y ago> his engineering genius I'm not being argumentative, but I've never really seen this sentiment before. What has he done to make you feel he's an engineering genius?
- fullstop 2y agoThe competition is getting better and Musk is a very polarizing individual. None of this surprises me.
- code_for_monkey 2y agoMusk tied himself so thoroughly to the brand and now hes tanking and taking the brand down with it.
- InsideOutSanta 2y agoI'm in Europe, and I've seen Teslas with "bought it before he went crazy" stickers. I think the Venn diagram of people who want to buy electric cars, and people who dislike Musk's recent behavior, has a pretty big intersection. And yeah, the competition is getting much better. I'm seeing a lot of Polestar cars recently, and even a lowly Fiat 500e now advertises 460km range.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoSome of the BMW electrics are amazing. I think they have been doing electric longer than Tesla.
- bdamm 2y agoTrue, but the i3 is kind of awful. So they've been doing it longer, but not necessarily better.
- drakonka 2y agoI'm not really a car person but finding Teslas looking quite dated compared to other options, especially Polestar, in the roads these days. At one point you saw a Tesla and it had some kind of 'cool' factor by both reputation and aesthetics, but Musk has ruined the reputation and time + competition has ruined the aesthetics.
- gazchop 2y agoI'd buy a Polestar 2 if I had somewhere to charge it. I hired a few over the last couple of years. Basically an electric Volvo. Everything just worked and they aren't particularly expensive.
- xyzzy4747 2y agoTesla has too much competition and their CEO is part-time. Boggles my mind that the stock is priced so high relative to their financial metrics.
- morkalork 2y agoHe's got that Steve Jobs reality distortion field about him
- red-iron-pine 2y agohe's got Saudi and Russian money propping the stock up and allowing him to play games
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoAppropriate to remember the original use for this phrase was to describe him stealing ideas from engineers with no credit in a psychotic fashion and make scheduling realistic release dates impossible: https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html > he's really funny about ideas. If you tell him a new idea, he'll usually tell you that he thinks it's stupid. But then, if he actually likes it, exactly one week later, he'll come back to you and propose your idea to you, as if he thought of it." And > He can convince anyone of practically anything. It wears off when he's not around, but it makes it hard to have realistic schedules.
- TrackerFF 2y agoModel Y and 3 are still the most selling EVs here in Norway, but VAG cars have been catching up...fast. In 2023 Tesla vs VAG cars were roughly 25k vs 18k cars sold. Last year, it was 24k vs 21k. If the trend keeps up, VAG will outsell Tesla this year. Source (though in Norwegian, use translate to read it): https://ofv.no/aktuelt/2025/nybilsalget-i-2024-9-av-10-nye-personbiler-var-elbiler https://ofv.no/aktuelt/2025/nybilsalget-i-2024-9-av-10-nye-p...
- Toutouxc 2y agoFor me it was Musk. I had a finger on the trigger for an M3, which is an amazing car for the price, but then he just didn't know when to stop talking and I've sort of lost a lot of that enthusiasm. So now I'm waiting for the legacy brands to step up, which they unfortunately aren't really doing.
- tvbusy 2y agoSo true. I'm selling my car to switch to an electric one and used to be really interested In Tesla.
- verdverm 2y agoIoniq 6 is an awesome alternative to the Model 3. I picked one up last fall and couldn't be happier
- bekantan 2y agoAny significant differences in charging experience? Can you use Tesla Supercharging network?
- thomspoon 2y agoAFAIK newer ones come with the NACS charger, older ones you have to buy the adapter
- coldpie 2y ago2025 Ioniq 5s have the NACS port (only in NA markets, obviously). I don't think the 2025 Ioniq 6s do, though they probably will for the next model year. Like you said, CCS-equipped cars can use the Tesla network with a NACS-to-CCS adapter.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y agoThe article is about Europe, which has standardised on CCS2 charging. Including since 2018, Tesla. None come with NACS. So European Teslas and Hyundai's have used the same plug since then. AFAIK, many UK and EU Tesla superchargers are open to other cars. ( https://www.carwow.co.uk/editorial/going-electric/ev-charging/can-non-tesla-cars-use-tesla-superchargers https://www.carwow.co.uk/editorial/going-electric/ev-chargin... )
- amelius 2y agoTurns out EVs are technologically much simpler than ICE cars. Anybody can make them. And so does China.
- miohtama 2y agoBatteries are not simple, but turns out China has also the best battery making talent in the world. Meanwhile RIP Northvolt, the star of the EU.
- verdverm 2y agoSK & JP have battery talent as well
- redwall_hp 2y agoPanasonic (JP) designed the cells Tesla uses and produces half of them. (The rest are made by CATL, as far as I'm aware.) The "gigafactories" are mostly just Tesla providing facilities for Panasonic to use stateside to make cells, and then they do screwdriver assembly to make packs. Panasonic is also building more of their own factories in the US to serve other car companies. Tesla doesn't have any competitive advantage in batteries.
- verdverm 2y agoHyundai (SK) is opening a big vehicle and battery plant in Georgia https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-georgia-electric-vehicle-ev-845e2729fd5220797e7984f424bc1d5c https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-georgia-electric-vehicle-...
- _yb2s 2y agoBattery cells are just a commodity EV makers can purchase- they don't need to be able to engineer them in house. There are a lot more parts on an ICE car that pretty much need to be engineered by the vehicle manufacturer.
- 2y ago
- rqtwteye 2y agoI think his support of right wingers like AfD and calling the German chancellor a fool doesn't go across well with a lot of people. And the Tesla models are also getting stale.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoLuckily for Tesla their share price seems to have been disconnected from car sales for a long time. But will it continue as a meme stock? Will it pivot into AI? Or just suddenly collapse in price one day?
- toss1 2y agoEven after losing 16% in a month, falling from a high of $480+ to $405, the PE ratio is still about 111X. Even in a period of near record-high overall market valuations of 26X [1] not seen in at least decades, even before the Dotcom boom/bust, this is an outrageous valuation. Tesla would need to either fall to about $100/share or more than quadruple earnings just to get down to this historically aberrant high of PE~26X. Considering their now-established history of failure to deliver, the failure of the Cybertruck to catch on, and Musk's authoritarian behavior alienating most customers for his EVs, the prospects for a massive sustainable earnings increase are poor at best. Add onto that an economy that has been excellent for four years and will be difficult to sustain, especially with the new administration likely to undermine it with ill-advised scattershot tariffs and deportations, strong growth seems unlikely. I'd consider yourself very lucky if you had a position that you managed to sell in early December. I certainly wouldn't be buying any soon, but shorting meme stocks is dangerous (even if your thesis is correct, short-term motions can get you stopped out with a big loss before realizing profits). [0] https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/TSLA/ https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/TSLA/ [1] https://worldperatio.com/area/united-states/ https://worldperatio.com/area/united-states/
- gnkyfrg 2y ago[dead]
- rusty_venture 2y ago> short-term motions can get you stopped out with a big loss before realizing profits Can you elaborate on that a little? How does that happen?
- toss1 2y ago
- 1970-01-01 2y ago>This can only mean one thing Another "one thing" that it suggests is Tesla vehicles are not breaking down, and current owners are happy keeping them as long-term owners.
- AnotherGoodName 2y agoDifferent markets have different needs. I get that it may not matter for you but the removal of indicator stalks is a deal breaker in countries where you’re required to indicate both on and off roundabouts. Especially when those roundabouts are small. You have to first flick the stalk turn the wheel and flick the stalk while turning. Tricky even with a stalk but legally required and you will be ticketed in places for this. I found it impossible to do with the tiny buttons on the steering wheel. Everytime I mention this people argue the indicator buttons on the wheel are fine for them but it’s absolutely the reason I personally did not buy a Tesla. Different markets have different needs and the latest models don’t work in Europe. I actually think they are dangerous and should be marked as unsafe given my own experience. You do risk a crash trying to find buttons on a tiny wheel.
- CamperBob2 2y agoAgreed that removing indicator stalks is asinine and should never have been permitted, but what on earth is the reason for signaling in a roundabout unless you are actively changing lanes in one?
- AnotherGoodName 2y agoSimilar to the reason you signal at a 4 way when turning across traffic (in that case it prevents a deadlock of two non indicating idiots waiting for each other when if they both indicated they could both go simultaneously). In the roundabout case it lets drivers know you’re exiting the roundabout and they can enter it. It makes traffic much more efficient but it does need to be enforced since it’s for the benefit of other drivers not yourself.
- CamperBob2 2y agoTrusting the other driver's turn signal at a 4-way stop is fine. Trusting the other driver's turn signal when one or both is in motion is a good way to get killed. Signaling to enter or exit a roundabout communicates no useful information.
- nestorD 2y agoMusk has been using his money to influence politics (including in the US, accross the board). Buying a Tesla is giving him money and thus supporting that behavior. It seems obvious to me (a European living in the US) that, if you disagree with his politics, you should not buy his cars. This also apply to people living in the US but, having seen a strongly pro choice north Californian friend buy a Tesla recently, I do not know if US citizens think in those terms.
- boogieknite 2y agodepends on who: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1hk3mmv/xpost_from_rportland_neighbor_down_the_street/?rdt=32993 https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1hk3mmv/xpost_... this is a very well known local meme which has been posted around the city. most people here get the reference and it gets called back about half the time i see a cybertruck in company
- red-iron-pine 2y agotesla stock price is so divorced from actual car sales it's debatable how much buying one or not actually impacts the company. not saying you should buy one, mind you. just that the stock and his ability to support his behavior are divorced from sales
- maxehmookau 2y agoIt's Musk. Me, and thousands others, loved Tesla cars. Now you can buy a better, more reliable EV for the same money from a company not owned by a man hell-bent on forcing the rise of the far-right in Europe. If Rupert Murdoch made cars, I wouldn't buy one of those either.
- AlexandrB 2y agoTesla cars are really cheaply built. Putting every control on a touchscreen is a cost-saving measure. At the same time, Teslas are actually quite expensive to buy. I think the target audience for this combo are people who love their iPads. I don't love my iPad - I want actual stalks and dials and knobs and buttons in my car so Tesla is not the car for me. In addition to the political intrigues others have mentioned I suspect that Tesla may be reaching the limit of "people who love their iPads" here.
- astrospective 2y agoI love my iPad, but I’d still rather have knobs and buttons in my car, if I need to adjust it while driving I need to be able to find it without looking.
- 7thaccount 2y agoI'm in a similar boat. Touchscreens might look sleek, but it is dangerous in some ways as you can't adjust things without taking your eyes off the road. I do like the big backup camera though. I won't support Elon though, so Tesla is permanently a non-option for me now. The huge failure of the cybertruck also makes me wary of going that route as the number of videos showing the shoddy craftsmanship seems far too high.
- gazchop 2y agoTo be fair the model S wasn't like that the last time I drove one (hired 2022 model S). It's less of an iPad than the model 3 is. What is however terrible is none of the trim fits, the constant distractions and attention it requires and after driving a European car, it feels like I'm driving a Temu android tablet. Hired Polestars since. Those just work, are put together properly and shut the fuck up when you're driving.
- moogly 2y ago> Putting every control on a touchscreen is a cost-saving measure That is the meme. But at the same time, they put a (barely usable) rear passenger touchscreen in the back seat mid console on the Model 3 refresh, and now they're putting powered back seats in the Model Y refresh. There's no way that's cheaper than a few buttons/stalks here and there. Is that something they're purely doing to try to catch the hearts and minds of the Chinese market? As I have been led to believe, for a lot of Chinese, the back seat is very important.
- chrisbrandow 2y agoI’m sure Musk is non-trivia part of this, but also there haven’t been any significant remodel, update or new models (for typical consumers, cybertruck is fairly niche) released in quite a while. At the same time tons of new e-vehicles are coming out from a ton of competitors.
- Symbiote 2y agoThe Cybertruck is mostly irrelevant in the EU, EEA, UK as it isn't road-legal in any of them. If it has any effect it's as marketing, but that could just as easily be negative here amongst the expected customers of Tesla's other cars.
- st-keller 2y agoIt was Musk. I wanted a Tesla for years. Now i bought a Hyundai.
- tschellenbach 2y agoHigh inflation and poor GDP growth probably also factor into this given the price point of Tesla cars
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Al-Khwarizmi 2y agoIn Spain Tesla has actually had a record year, with a huge lead in EV market share (26.5%, the second being BMW with 6.3%). But I think this is circumstancial and next year may be very different. The purchasing power in Spain is considerably lower than in e.g. Germany or France, so very few people are buying VAG or Stellantis EVs as they are perceived as overpriced (and the brands themselves often don't seem to want to sell them, but I won't bore you with that). During most of 2024, the Model 3 made sense for a lot of people in Spain, since it was the only EV that wasn't perceived as a toy car (Dacia Spring) or too expensive (most Volkswagen, etc.). Basically for less money than what the likes of Volkswagen or Peugeot were offering, you got a car with vastly superior specifications (especially range). Hence, it was the best selling EV by far, in spite of widespread negative perception about Musk and about the lack of physical controls. Things are changing fast, though. On the one hand, the traditional brands are catching up with attractive models with decent ranges at attainable prices like the Citroën ë-C3 or the Kia EV3. On the other hand, the Chinese have entered the market, and even with the EU tariffs, they have attractive options at various price points like the Leapmotor T03 or the BYD Dolphin. So now if you don't actually like Tesla's offering that much, there is no reason to buy it anymore. Scarce data, of course, but in the first 12 days of 2025, the Dolphin is the best-selling EV followed by the EV3. The Model 3 is far behind so far.
- amriksohata 2y agoYes tanking but Europe is a small market for Tesla, the bigger numbers are in other countries.
- taylodl 2y agoThis article is about 2024 sales. I suspect 2025 sales are going to be brutal.
- isk517 2y agoIn the comment section for that article someone was defending Telsa by claiming the one of the signs of the competition being behind is that they do not have nearly the same number of OTA updates as Telsa has. Personally, I would prefer a car that 0 OTA updates, or at the very least they should be extremely rare.
- ge96 2y agoOn the topic of EVs I personally don't have an interest. I know the torque on electric beats ICE but man driving something like a pantera f yeah.
- bunsenhoneydew 2y agoI used to think Zuckerberg was the worst person in the tech world. Musk has far exceeded him. I wouldn’t spend a cent on a product associated with him.
- user568439 2y agoFor me it's Musk too. The refreshed Model Y is the cheapest and most efficient car that fits all my requirements. I didn't like Musk before but I admired him. But supporting AfD in Germany, asking the king of England to kick the government and all other recent acts crossed a few red lines for me. I have to change my car in May and it will be probably more expensive or worse car than the Model Y. I need 500+ km range, big trunk, efficiency, silence and confort, acceptable fast charging, heat pump and all for around 50k € max. The Chinese options are cool but much less efficient. Not that cheap but better equipped. Also no service in some countries where I travel often. KIA/Hyundai are a bit overpriced and okish but the EV5 is the only I would consider and it's not here yet. The VW group are overpriced and need a new platform. However my current first choice is the new Skoda Enyaq. Otherwise maybe a slightly used VW ID7 but it's too long for parking... From Stellantis I could consider the Renault Scenic and its clones but I think they are a bit short on trunk capacity and they use too many capacitieve buttons BMW is out of my reach but they make the best EVs from the ones I tried