6 ms·

Why don't we all organize then?

ktallett 2y ago
It is an interesting question. In many situations, the majority organising would produce significant change, however as a society we very rarely do it. Why not?
- 9rx 2y ago
  It is hard and time consuming work so until things become intolerably bad people would rather do something else that they find more enjoyable, like complain on the internet.
- yoyohello13 2y ago
  I think it's a combination of things not being bad enough to actually motivate change, and the anti-union propoganda/union-busting from the entities in power.
pjc50 2y ago
Someone posted a great answer to this on Reddit today: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/why_we_dont_unionize/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/... (summary: "we" don't tend to think like a "we")
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20250114151644/https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/why_we_dont_unionize/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250114151644/https://old.reddi...
itsathrowaway2 2y ago
Decades of anti-union propaganda, combined with the fecklessness and corruption of existing large labor unions.
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  When I worked in the grocery industry, it was interesting to see the difference between a non-union company and a unionized one. Part of orientation for the non-union company included a video explaining the dangers of unionizing. For the workers, the unionized company was far better but I'm not entirely sure it wasn't also better for the company. I worked in multiple stores for the non-unionized chain and employee theft was extensive, even with the managers. I never saw that at the union store. Same for caring about their work. One employee screw up can cause tens of thousands in merchandise losses. It's worth noting that the non-unionized chain grew to be one of the largest in the country but now is on the verge of being erased from existence. The unionized chain lives on as part of the Albertsons conglomerate. Also worth noting that the unionized employees generally had negative feelings about the union but most had never worked for a non-unionized grocery.
9rx 2y ago
We, here meaning the American worker, are already organized in the union known as government. But: 1. Not all workers are of the same mind. And minds haven't changed much. The decline in engagement is only few percentage points, and appears to be a return to the norm. If there was a catastrophic decline, things might be different. 2. Making waves requires work. You have to do things like talk to your representative, while most people would rather use that time to talk to their friends/family/random internet strangers instead.
ajaisbxjzjd 2y ago
Low trust society. Amazon recognized this and it’s why they push for diversity (https://www.vox.com/recode/23282640/leaked-internal-memo-reveals-amazons-anti-union-strategies-teamsters https://www.vox.com/recode/23282640/leaked-internal-memo-rev...). Anyone telling you to hate your history or your people is grooming you and trying to take advantage of you. Things like illegal immigration, offshoring and H1B take this a step further. With the incoming admin pushing for more H1Bs, how could we hope to organize when they’ll just import replacements? We need to stop measuring GDP and start measuring things like the Gini coefficient as an indicator of how healthy our economy is.
- redserk 2y ago
  > Anyone telling you to hate your history or your people is grooming you and trying to take advantage of you. I'm with the rest of your points here but this point seems like an irrelevant, unsubstantiated musing to push an agenda. Nobody is thinking "wow, a sociologist's opinion about labor in the 1700s makes me hate the thought of unionizing in God's-given-year-of 2025"
  - Mountain_Skies 2y ago
    This type of finger wagging is the exact type of thing that keeps workers in the US from being able to come together and unionize. Bezos however absolutely loves it.
    - redserk 2y ago
      Bringing up unrelated grievances is a great way to divide a group. If you’re annoyed with “woke”, form a group to protest that.
ryandrake 2y ago
On HN's comment section, the sentiment seems to be "Unions benefit common workers, but I am the one uniquely well-paid hard worker that is skilled at negotiaton who would not be advantaged by a union." Everyone seems to think that they are the captain of their industry and couldn't possibly benefit from coordinating with everyone else.
pjmlp 2y ago
We do in Europe, for example in Germany, https://www.igmetall.de https://www.igmetall.de
SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
Unions make sense as a response from workers who feel exploited, but it's hard to see how they'd help with the kind of vague ennui the source article is describing. Unions can sometimes clarify job expectations, I suppose, but they can't force a company to develop a sense of purpose or make your manager care about you as a person.
carlosjobim 2y ago
Because for most individuals, when somebody uses the word "we", they are only included in the effort and sacrifices and never included in the benefits. Nobody falls for the "we" scam anymore.

It is an interesting question. In many situations, the majority organising would produce significant change, however as a society we very rarely do it. Why not?

9rx 2y ago
It is hard and time consuming work so until things become intolerably bad people would rather do something else that they find more enjoyable, like complain on the internet.
yoyohello13 2y ago
I think it's a combination of things not being bad enough to actually motivate change, and the anti-union propoganda/union-busting from the entities in power.

pjc50 2y ago

Someone posted a great answer to this on Reddit today: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/why_we_dont_unionize/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/... (summary: "we" don't tend to think like a "we")

toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20250114151644/https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1i10xjh/why_we_dont_unionize/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250114151644/https://old.reddi...

itsathrowaway2 2y ago

Decades of anti-union propaganda, combined with the fecklessness and corruption of existing large labor unions.

Mountain_Skies 2y ago
When I worked in the grocery industry, it was interesting to see the difference between a non-union company and a unionized one. Part of orientation for the non-union company included a video explaining the dangers of unionizing. For the workers, the unionized company was far better but I'm not entirely sure it wasn't also better for the company. I worked in multiple stores for the non-unionized chain and employee theft was extensive, even with the managers. I never saw that at the union store. Same for caring about their work. One employee screw up can cause tens of thousands in merchandise losses. It's worth noting that the non-unionized chain grew to be one of the largest in the country but now is on the verge of being erased from existence. The unionized chain lives on as part of the Albertsons conglomerate. Also worth noting that the unionized employees generally had negative feelings about the union but most had never worked for a non-unionized grocery.

9rx 2y ago

We, here meaning the American worker, are already organized in the union known as government. But: 1. Not all workers are of the same mind. And minds haven't changed much. The decline in engagement is only few percentage points, and appears to be a return to the norm. If there was a catastrophic decline, things might be different. 2. Making waves requires work. You have to do things like talk to your representative, while most people would rather use that time to talk to their friends/family/random internet strangers instead.

ajaisbxjzjd 2y ago

Low trust society. Amazon recognized this and it’s why they push for diversity (https://www.vox.com/recode/23282640/leaked-internal-memo-reveals-amazons-anti-union-strategies-teamsters https://www.vox.com/recode/23282640/leaked-internal-memo-rev...). Anyone telling you to hate your history or your people is grooming you and trying to take advantage of you. Things like illegal immigration, offshoring and H1B take this a step further. With the incoming admin pushing for more H1Bs, how could we hope to organize when they’ll just import replacements? We need to stop measuring GDP and start measuring things like the Gini coefficient as an indicator of how healthy our economy is.

redserk 2y ago
> Anyone telling you to hate your history or your people is grooming you and trying to take advantage of you. I'm with the rest of your points here but this point seems like an irrelevant, unsubstantiated musing to push an agenda. Nobody is thinking "wow, a sociologist's opinion about labor in the 1700s makes me hate the thought of unionizing in God's-given-year-of 2025"
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  This type of finger wagging is the exact type of thing that keeps workers in the US from being able to come together and unionize. Bezos however absolutely loves it.
  - redserk 2y ago
    Bringing up unrelated grievances is a great way to divide a group. If you’re annoyed with “woke”, form a group to protest that.

ryandrake 2y ago

On HN's comment section, the sentiment seems to be "Unions benefit common workers, but I am the one uniquely well-paid hard worker that is skilled at negotiaton who would not be advantaged by a union." Everyone seems to think that they are the captain of their industry and couldn't possibly benefit from coordinating with everyone else.

pjmlp 2y ago

We do in Europe, for example in Germany, https://www.igmetall.de https://www.igmetall.de

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

Unions make sense as a response from workers who feel exploited, but it's hard to see how they'd help with the kind of vague ennui the source article is describing. Unions can sometimes clarify job expectations, I suppose, but they can't force a company to develop a sense of purpose or make your manager care about you as a person.

carlosjobim 2y ago

Because for most individuals, when somebody uses the word "we", they are only included in the effort and sacrifices and never included in the benefits. Nobody falls for the "we" scam anymore.