10 ms·

First of all – the essay is phenomenal and his book is available online for free – https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/youtube-apparatus/36600D69788530F805C

First of all – the essay is phenomenal and his book is available online for free – https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/youtube-apparatus/36600D69788530F805C650B70976A585 https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/youtube-apparatus/36... > “Communication within the YouTube Apparatus has no meaning.” The rapid feedback loop between creators and audiences (as constructed by platform metrics) means that the system more and more responds to itself. Rather than trying to go somewhere (as is the case with political ideology), the creator seeks simply intensification, to draw more and more of the world into his whirlpool of content. This idea – that meaning is replaced by intensification – helps me understand a lot about the world today.

irrational 2y ago
Now I understand why numberphile has videos about infinity. I jest, but it seems like only certain content creators can get on the intensification train.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  Seriously though, this is true. My YouTube feed has none of this "intensification" stuff. Perun, Blancolirio, everything Brady Haran has made (he's the guy behind Numberphile, Sixty Symbols, etc), Applied Science, etc. I think the idea that media aimed at education or sharing a passionate hobby is different from media that exists in the first place to just make money. If you start out with a goal that involves communication, I think it's more likely to stick than if your goal was just to become the Death Star from the start!
  - maeil 2y ago
    It's hard to realize just how unrepresentative that is and how much of a minority that makes you. Just like it's easy for people into video games to think the latest Steam-chart topping indie hit is really popular. And then you look up the numbers and it turns out something like FIFA (EAFC) makes more money than every single indie game on Steam combined.
throwway120385 2y ago
It also explains why there's been an alarming trend over the last 10 years of people just getting more vehement about everything.
- dymk 2y ago
  10? We’ve been getting steadily more polarized since at least the 80s.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    Possibly true, but I'm sure you'd agree that it can't really be called steadily since around 2010-2014
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      There is a straight line through 70s Falwell, 90s Limbaugh, tea party, to MAGA. All fueled by a self-reinforcing rage machine.
      - liontwist 2y ago
        I don’t think you understand these groups and their motivations very well. Fear and concern for the future are much more significant than “rage”.
      - harywilke 2y ago
        Reminds me of this quote: "The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way." -They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45[0] [0] https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm
        jiggawatts 2y ago
        Reminds me of the Ukraine war. The original intent was clearly a very short intense “operation” and then a quick annexation. Nobody planned to grind hundreds of thousands of bodies through a war machine, but “here we are” and now everyone is “forced” to go through the motions.
achierius 2y ago
Baudrillard just gets more relevant every day. Honestly I find it hard to imagine how someone could have media literacy in the modern day without coming to an intuitive understanding of semiotics, whether they know it or not!
- aiono 2y ago
  I find the ideas of Baudrillard really accurate in describing some parts of modern life, but to be honest I feel like he just saying random stuff when I tried to read one of his book. It's so metaphorical and abstract it's very difficult to understand what exactly he is saying.
  - cess11 2y ago
    He's not "just saying random stuff", he was a very serious thinker. Unlike Derrida he wasn't much of a joker. Perhaps language is fundamentally metaphorical, and perhaps reality is actually abstract.
    - aiono 2y ago
      That's just what I feel I didn't claim that it actually is just random stuff. But I value clarity and Baudrillard doesn't seem to try to be. However, as I said I do find his general points very valuable just his style is not my cup of tea.
      - cess11 2y ago
        He wrote in many different styles, depending on the subject and likely audience. Simulacra and Simulation, Silent Majorities and The Gulf War Did Not Take Place are very different texts.
      - NoGravitas 2y ago
        Part of it may be translation, too. English translations of French academic writing always seem to come out especially convoluted.
  - 2y ago
Salgat 2y ago
For people confused like me on what intensification means, it means maximizing the amount of attention and interaction that occurs. On Youtube this would be the metrics that drive engagement, including views, likes, comments, shares, and watch time. The issue is that the content focuses on driving engagement at the expense of communicating ideas with coherence and depth, for example by sensationalizing or oversimplifying a complex issue (especially for things like political discourse focused on sound bites and emotional appeals, or with virtue signaling and outrage culture). I think the above commentor is right, in my opinion, intensification shapes our world into being very reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues, and platforms like Youtube Shorts and Tiktok take this to its furthest possible level.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  For an excellent, prescient, hilarious, and terrifying book on this topic, I highly recommend "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman.
  - stafford_beer 2y ago
    OP here -- excellent suggestion, I've been heavily influenced by this book and would also recommend Postman's "Technopoly"
    - disqard 2y ago
      Thank you for writing this, and making it available online! When researching+writing this, did you find it useful to look through McLuhan's "Medium is the Message" lens? If so, what are the "message" implications of this ouroboric/circular/whirlpool medium?
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  I think the above commentor is right, in my opinion, intensification shapes our world into being very reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues In fairness, this is how the world has always been. In the US for instance, back when there were only 3 networks and a channel for public tv, people were "reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues".
lbotos 2y ago
You might enjoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle
oulipo 2y ago
Exactly, intensification or acceleration, this is exactly the root of most issues. Since we've mastered energy (and in particular oil&gas), the world has been on an acceleration binge, which is now causing a lot of friction and overheating in the relationships and environment. We need to slow down and to connect back to nature
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  Slowing down is not a solution since we're heading for a wall in some dimensions and a cliff edge on others. We need to find ways to drastically change course. We need to build maps and steering wheels.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    And we need to convince everyone to do it, or we just end up in the Red Queen scenario.
    - worldsayshi 2y ago
      Yeah, I do think that collective action problems summarize almost all of humanities problems though. So if we just found a way to efficiently make decisions as a collective we'd be in a much better situation. I might even suspect that solving collective action is the great filter that we have in front of us.
  - oulipo 2y ago
    on the contrary, slowing down it's the only way forward
    - worldsayshi 2y ago
      It wont happen. Not without apocalyptic wars.
nvarsj 2y ago
> This idea – that meaning is replaced by intensification – helps me understand a lot about the world today. I don't see much difference to the "old world" either. Yellow journalism existed in the 1800s. We just do it in a more modern format.
UncleOxidant 2y ago
This is similar to what Vlad Vexler refers to as "being captured by the algorithm". That there are people on YouTube (and other platforms) that begin to mold themselves to fit into the algorithm's dictates so as to increase views and engagement. This means they may drift from their original political stance, for example, in order to please the algorithm. And this drift isn't always conscious - in fact it likely isn't conscious most of the time. If you want to be a content creator on these platforms and you don't want to be captured by the algorithms you have to be very conscious that algorithmic capture is a constant danger. You have to be willing to lose algorithmic points and give up income that you're getting from the platform if push comes to shove. You have to constantly be on your guard.
- gitaarik 2y ago
  I guess this just comes down to people losing themselves in the pursuit of money and power and status etc. That is the reason they please the algorithm. They lost touch with themselves, who they really are and their true passions and interests. Usually because of a trauma in the past they're trying to compensate for.
griomnib 2y ago
I think this is a bit of a warped view as this is true for the biggest channels, but the medium and long tail on YouTube has a lot of substance in computer science, engineering, geology, climate science, and much more. When I was a kid there was Mr Wizard, and then Bill Nye, but it was far more limited than what I watch with my kid. The land of videos with <1M views is full of gems - and many of the top notch science channels (eg Mark Rober), still give their creators a handsome income. And many of the channels, like Rober, do regularly crack 1M and the recommended list.
- wussboy 2y ago
  I disagree. I think those things you mentioned as being in the long tail are just things that you like and that you think have value. But there's no reason in theory that the same radicalization process can't be happening with those areas as well. And if it was happening, what would it look like? I have a theory, but I don't want to give the game away yet.
xnx 2y ago
Grabbing someone's attention through any means (often using tricks like ragebait that appeal to psychological weakness) is the only goal.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
Intensification is the aim and result of Google, specifically their "online ad services" racket. It is not created merely by the sharing of videos over the internet. Such sharing was happening long before Google Video or YouTube existed. Some HN commenters want readers to believe that YouTube, with its ridiculous "recommendations", is synonymous with sharing videos over a computer network... and that it's impossible for internet subscribers to share videos with other subscribers without a YouTube middleman. They warn that YouTube must exist, that surveillance, advertising and recommendations are essential, otherwise sharing video over the internet will become impossible and terrible things will happen. News flash. Terrible things are happening as a result of YouTube. More specifically as a result of Google's surveillance and advertising tactics.

irrational 2y ago

Now I understand why numberphile has videos about infinity. I jest, but it seems like only certain content creators can get on the intensification train.

EA-3167 2y ago
Seriously though, this is true. My YouTube feed has none of this "intensification" stuff. Perun, Blancolirio, everything Brady Haran has made (he's the guy behind Numberphile, Sixty Symbols, etc), Applied Science, etc. I think the idea that media aimed at education or sharing a passionate hobby is different from media that exists in the first place to just make money. If you start out with a goal that involves communication, I think it's more likely to stick than if your goal was just to become the Death Star from the start!
- maeil 2y ago
  It's hard to realize just how unrepresentative that is and how much of a minority that makes you. Just like it's easy for people into video games to think the latest Steam-chart topping indie hit is really popular. And then you look up the numbers and it turns out something like FIFA (EAFC) makes more money than every single indie game on Steam combined.

throwway120385 2y ago

It also explains why there's been an alarming trend over the last 10 years of people just getting more vehement about everything.

dymk 2y ago
10? We’ve been getting steadily more polarized since at least the 80s.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  Possibly true, but I'm sure you'd agree that it can't really be called steadily since around 2010-2014
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    There is a straight line through 70s Falwell, 90s Limbaugh, tea party, to MAGA. All fueled by a self-reinforcing rage machine.
    - liontwist 2y ago
      I don’t think you understand these groups and their motivations very well. Fear and concern for the future are much more significant than “rage”.
    - harywilke 2y ago
      Reminds me of this quote: "The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way." -They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45[0] [0] https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm
      - jiggawatts 2y ago
        Reminds me of the Ukraine war. The original intent was clearly a very short intense “operation” and then a quick annexation. Nobody planned to grind hundreds of thousands of bodies through a war machine, but “here we are” and now everyone is “forced” to go through the motions.

achierius 2y ago

Baudrillard just gets more relevant every day. Honestly I find it hard to imagine how someone could have media literacy in the modern day without coming to an intuitive understanding of semiotics, whether they know it or not!

aiono 2y ago
I find the ideas of Baudrillard really accurate in describing some parts of modern life, but to be honest I feel like he just saying random stuff when I tried to read one of his book. It's so metaphorical and abstract it's very difficult to understand what exactly he is saying.
- cess11 2y ago
  He's not "just saying random stuff", he was a very serious thinker. Unlike Derrida he wasn't much of a joker. Perhaps language is fundamentally metaphorical, and perhaps reality is actually abstract.
  - aiono 2y ago
    That's just what I feel I didn't claim that it actually is just random stuff. But I value clarity and Baudrillard doesn't seem to try to be. However, as I said I do find his general points very valuable just his style is not my cup of tea.
    - cess11 2y ago
      He wrote in many different styles, depending on the subject and likely audience. Simulacra and Simulation, Silent Majorities and The Gulf War Did Not Take Place are very different texts.
    - NoGravitas 2y ago
      Part of it may be translation, too. English translations of French academic writing always seem to come out especially convoluted.
- 2y ago

Salgat 2y ago

For people confused like me on what intensification means, it means maximizing the amount of attention and interaction that occurs. On Youtube this would be the metrics that drive engagement, including views, likes, comments, shares, and watch time. The issue is that the content focuses on driving engagement at the expense of communicating ideas with coherence and depth, for example by sensationalizing or oversimplifying a complex issue (especially for things like political discourse focused on sound bites and emotional appeals, or with virtue signaling and outrage culture). I think the above commentor is right, in my opinion, intensification shapes our world into being very reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues, and platforms like Youtube Shorts and Tiktok take this to its furthest possible level.

llamaimperative 2y ago
For an excellent, prescient, hilarious, and terrifying book on this topic, I highly recommend "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman.
- stafford_beer 2y ago
  OP here -- excellent suggestion, I've been heavily influenced by this book and would also recommend Postman's "Technopoly"
  - disqard 2y ago
    Thank you for writing this, and making it available online! When researching+writing this, did you find it useful to look through McLuhan's "Medium is the Message" lens? If so, what are the "message" implications of this ouroboric/circular/whirlpool medium?
bilbo0s 2y ago
I think the above commentor is right, in my opinion, intensification shapes our world into being very reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues In fairness, this is how the world has always been. In the US for instance, back when there were only 3 networks and a channel for public tv, people were "reactionary, with only a superficial understanding of issues".

lbotos 2y ago

You might enjoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle

oulipo 2y ago

Exactly, intensification or acceleration, this is exactly the root of most issues. Since we've mastered energy (and in particular oil&gas), the world has been on an acceleration binge, which is now causing a lot of friction and overheating in the relationships and environment. We need to slow down and to connect back to nature

worldsayshi 2y ago
Slowing down is not a solution since we're heading for a wall in some dimensions and a cliff edge on others. We need to find ways to drastically change course. We need to build maps and steering wheels.
- pixl97 2y ago
  And we need to convince everyone to do it, or we just end up in the Red Queen scenario.
  - worldsayshi 2y ago
    Yeah, I do think that collective action problems summarize almost all of humanities problems though. So if we just found a way to efficiently make decisions as a collective we'd be in a much better situation. I might even suspect that solving collective action is the great filter that we have in front of us.
- oulipo 2y ago
  on the contrary, slowing down it's the only way forward
  - worldsayshi 2y ago
    It wont happen. Not without apocalyptic wars.

nvarsj 2y ago

> This idea – that meaning is replaced by intensification – helps me understand a lot about the world today. I don't see much difference to the "old world" either. Yellow journalism existed in the 1800s. We just do it in a more modern format.

UncleOxidant 2y ago

This is similar to what Vlad Vexler refers to as "being captured by the algorithm". That there are people on YouTube (and other platforms) that begin to mold themselves to fit into the algorithm's dictates so as to increase views and engagement. This means they may drift from their original political stance, for example, in order to please the algorithm. And this drift isn't always conscious - in fact it likely isn't conscious most of the time. If you want to be a content creator on these platforms and you don't want to be captured by the algorithms you have to be very conscious that algorithmic capture is a constant danger. You have to be willing to lose algorithmic points and give up income that you're getting from the platform if push comes to shove. You have to constantly be on your guard.

gitaarik 2y ago
I guess this just comes down to people losing themselves in the pursuit of money and power and status etc. That is the reason they please the algorithm. They lost touch with themselves, who they really are and their true passions and interests. Usually because of a trauma in the past they're trying to compensate for.

griomnib 2y ago

I think this is a bit of a warped view as this is true for the biggest channels, but the medium and long tail on YouTube has a lot of substance in computer science, engineering, geology, climate science, and much more. When I was a kid there was Mr Wizard, and then Bill Nye, but it was far more limited than what I watch with my kid. The land of videos with <1M views is full of gems - and many of the top notch science channels (eg Mark Rober), still give their creators a handsome income. And many of the channels, like Rober, do regularly crack 1M and the recommended list.

wussboy 2y ago
I disagree. I think those things you mentioned as being in the long tail are just things that you like and that you think have value. But there's no reason in theory that the same radicalization process can't be happening with those areas as well. And if it was happening, what would it look like? I have a theory, but I don't want to give the game away yet.

xnx 2y ago

Grabbing someone's attention through any means (often using tricks like ragebait that appeal to psychological weakness) is the only goal.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

Intensification is the aim and result of Google, specifically their "online ad services" racket. It is not created merely by the sharing of videos over the internet. Such sharing was happening long before Google Video or YouTube existed. Some HN commenters want readers to believe that YouTube, with its ridiculous "recommendations", is synonymous with sharing videos over a computer network... and that it's impossible for internet subscribers to share videos with other subscribers without a YouTube middleman. They warn that YouTube must exist, that surveillance, advertising and recommendations are essential, otherwise sharing video over the internet will become impossible and terrible things will happen. News flash. Terrible things are happening as a result of YouTube. More specifically as a result of Google's surveillance and advertising tactics.