4 ms·

I know what is expected from me at work: anything and everything. This is especially true shortly after our seemingly annual round of layoffs (right before the

by dfxm12 2y ago

I know what is expected from me at work: anything and everything. This is especially true shortly after our seemingly annual round of layoffs (right before the holiday season!). This increase in responsibilities has not come along with an increase pay, but our CEO got to double his total compensation package compared last year. I'd look for something else, but seeing this report, talking to friends and reading some comments in various threads on HN, it's clear the grass isn't greener anywhere else.

princevegeta89 2y ago
As a staff engineer at my company, my stupid manager expects me to do his work all the time. I'm hardly building things but just managing jira, talking to other teams, managing shit, writing docs, dealing with politics etc. I never signed up for this crap. But sadly this is where many companies are going
- whynotminot 2y ago
  I’m not sure the C Suite realizes that their efficiency drives — getting rid of managers — often means their engineers now aren’t as free to focus on engineering things.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Clubber 2y ago
    They don't care, their goal is to hit the numbers for their bonuses. Once dev collapses, they've moved on to make another company "efficient."
- flatline 2y ago
  “Staff engineer” varies by employer but this is generally exactly what I expect it to be. There are times I do technical work and times my entire job is putting out fires and making sure the wheels stay on the bus as we barrel full speed to a release. Making sure people have work. Making sure they know what it is, and the customer is on board. Tracking deadlines. Managing expectations. Making critical decisions about the architecture and the like. Any developer can write code. This stuff requires a different set of executive functions, and engineers that can do both are generally promoted.
  - js8 2y ago
    > making sure the wheels stay on the bus as we barrel full speed to a release. Making sure people have work. Making sure they know what it is, and the customer is on board. Tracking deadlines. Managing expectations What you're describing is a manager, not an engineer. Do you have any managers in your company? What is their job?
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      No, what he is describing is a well-rounded staff level engineer. As you get more senior and take on more responsibilities, you start having to think about everyone's work and how it all fits together, you think about how the project fits into a product that meets the customer's need (unless you have a dedicated PM, which is becoming rare), you have to think about deadlines and how the project is tracking towards it, you have to think about other teams and how their work intersects and how their dependencies are timed to ship in time for yours, you need to communicate up the totem pole to actual managers. And, yes, you have to hold your nose and open up Jira. I don't know where these "pure" perfectly spherical software engineers work who are super-senior staff level, but still do nothing but type in code. I've never seen them. As soon as you advance beyond the entry-level, you need to broaden your scope and be more of an actual engineer rather than just someone who writes code. The manager's job is (among others) to make sure the team is working well together, solve any inter-personnel issues, work with each of their directs on career development, sometimes provide direction of what to work on, sometimes actually assign individual tasks, pass down announcements and direction from the higher-ups, help to manage the team members' performance, and work with HR when needed. They're not there to do all the stinky non-code-typing things in your project.
      - halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
        No, Staffs are suppose to be focused on the technical implementation of the product, not on the minute of everyone’s work. Most of what you describe are EMs. Staff/Sr Staff/Principals should be steering the high level architecture, tech debt refactoring, migration strategy, etc and still get in the weeds to implement said architectures. They have the technical experience to do it, trying to extinguish that experience by pushing them into administrative roles is a complete waste of their talent and experience. They’re being pushed until these administrative roles because Directors have no idea how to leverage their talent and default to putting them into EM-like roles because that’s what they do but again, it’s a waste of talent and experience.
- mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  Have yet to be convinced that staff eng is worth it. Seems like it is [project] management by another name and placed at the top of the IC ladder so as to suggest that maybe, just maybe, you'll get time to actually write code.
  - kevinventullo 2y ago
    IMO Staff Eng and line managers are both jobs where you may not write a lot of code, but the ability to write code is nevertheless a critical skill for the job.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- whateveracct 2y ago
  My manager mostly just asks everyone if "it'll be done today" and tries to constantly subdivide tasks as infinitum (never read the mythical man month)
  - flashgordon 2y ago
    The reality is (and not in defence id managers) managers are getting just as effed by "leadership" (ever notice how managers are framed as scumbags but leaders are saviors?) and sadly managers cannot tell employees - "hey mate we are all in the same boat getting effed so let us game it/survive it together" for fear of being outed as non company players. You are always supposed to sell the company as your own line! So they are squeezed from the top and the bottom. I keep switching between management and IC so I have a bit of empathy here.
    - whateveracct 2y ago
      Oh I totally see through that, true. It's obviously from the very top. I'm looking to switch to management for the first time for the empathy bit, myself.
asoneth 2y ago
> the grass isn't greener anywhere else That may be true, but even the act of looking can provide some measure of hope, which can make everything more bearable.
strict9 2y ago
The added bonus of replacing laid off tech staff with overseas contractors is another morale booster. The ball is squarely in the employer's court and they are maximizing their position accordingly.
- ADeerAppeared 2y ago
  > The added bonus of replacing laid off tech staff with overseas contractors is another morale booster. Woah, woah, they're not overseas, they're "Virtual Employees" now. You're not supposed to look behind the curtain.
eli_gottlieb 2y ago
Damn that sucks. Wanna seize the means of production?
- psunavy03 2y ago
  I remember my sophomore year of college.
- randycupertino 2y ago
  Reminds me of an oldie but a goodie- The Onion Weather Report - Revolt Forecasted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwHZVl5Buk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwHZVl5Buk
- yoyohello13 2y ago
  I assume you're joking, but I do think wealth inequality is a major driver of this.
- pjc50 2y ago
  The thing is: you've already got the means of production. You have a computer, your brain (the real core of software production), and the whole universe of open source / Free software out there. What people actually want is VC money salaries without having to pay the VC piper's price, which is more of a problem. (AI has changed this somewhat, because it's so energy-intensive that it's become a capital asset. And of course we have to consider the monopolistic nature of software markets.)
  - janderson215 2y ago
    Most people don’t have this, but engineers do and we should be the last people complaining. We get paid well enough to save up and start a small company and take on the risk. The Borg can buy you out, but don’t give them your soul. The world is a better place with more entrepreneurs and new businesses. That part is on us.
  - eli_gottlieb 2y ago
    How is going into business for oneself supposed to shorten your workday and decrease the number of fires you're putting out?
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
whateveracct 2y ago
I've been having to do stuff "as soon as possible" for over a year now. I'm at a mid sized company and in many ways the nagging to deliver ASAP is beyond even when I founded my own company. And if something is gonna take a few days or a week, all the managers do is ask me five times if I can instead divide the work and farm it out to other engineers. If it isn't taking on the order of hours, they want to throw people at it to go faster. Parallelism is clearly a manager KPI.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
weisnobody 2y ago
Grass! You have grass on your side? Lucky you. :P

by dfxm12 2y ago

princevegeta89 2y ago

As a staff engineer at my company, my stupid manager expects me to do his work all the time. I'm hardly building things but just managing jira, talking to other teams, managing shit, writing docs, dealing with politics etc. I never signed up for this crap. But sadly this is where many companies are going

whynotminot 2y ago
I’m not sure the C Suite realizes that their efficiency drives — getting rid of managers — often means their engineers now aren’t as free to focus on engineering things.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Clubber 2y ago
  They don't care, their goal is to hit the numbers for their bonuses. Once dev collapses, they've moved on to make another company "efficient."
flatline 2y ago
“Staff engineer” varies by employer but this is generally exactly what I expect it to be. There are times I do technical work and times my entire job is putting out fires and making sure the wheels stay on the bus as we barrel full speed to a release. Making sure people have work. Making sure they know what it is, and the customer is on board. Tracking deadlines. Managing expectations. Making critical decisions about the architecture and the like. Any developer can write code. This stuff requires a different set of executive functions, and engineers that can do both are generally promoted.
- js8 2y ago
  > making sure the wheels stay on the bus as we barrel full speed to a release. Making sure people have work. Making sure they know what it is, and the customer is on board. Tracking deadlines. Managing expectations What you're describing is a manager, not an engineer. Do you have any managers in your company? What is their job?
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    No, what he is describing is a well-rounded staff level engineer. As you get more senior and take on more responsibilities, you start having to think about everyone's work and how it all fits together, you think about how the project fits into a product that meets the customer's need (unless you have a dedicated PM, which is becoming rare), you have to think about deadlines and how the project is tracking towards it, you have to think about other teams and how their work intersects and how their dependencies are timed to ship in time for yours, you need to communicate up the totem pole to actual managers. And, yes, you have to hold your nose and open up Jira. I don't know where these "pure" perfectly spherical software engineers work who are super-senior staff level, but still do nothing but type in code. I've never seen them. As soon as you advance beyond the entry-level, you need to broaden your scope and be more of an actual engineer rather than just someone who writes code. The manager's job is (among others) to make sure the team is working well together, solve any inter-personnel issues, work with each of their directs on career development, sometimes provide direction of what to work on, sometimes actually assign individual tasks, pass down announcements and direction from the higher-ups, help to manage the team members' performance, and work with HR when needed. They're not there to do all the stinky non-code-typing things in your project.
    - halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
      No, Staffs are suppose to be focused on the technical implementation of the product, not on the minute of everyone’s work. Most of what you describe are EMs. Staff/Sr Staff/Principals should be steering the high level architecture, tech debt refactoring, migration strategy, etc and still get in the weeds to implement said architectures. They have the technical experience to do it, trying to extinguish that experience by pushing them into administrative roles is a complete waste of their talent and experience. They’re being pushed until these administrative roles because Directors have no idea how to leverage their talent and default to putting them into EM-like roles because that’s what they do but again, it’s a waste of talent and experience.
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
Have yet to be convinced that staff eng is worth it. Seems like it is [project] management by another name and placed at the top of the IC ladder so as to suggest that maybe, just maybe, you'll get time to actually write code.
- kevinventullo 2y ago
  IMO Staff Eng and line managers are both jobs where you may not write a lot of code, but the ability to write code is nevertheless a critical skill for the job.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whateveracct 2y ago
My manager mostly just asks everyone if "it'll be done today" and tries to constantly subdivide tasks as infinitum (never read the mythical man month)
- flashgordon 2y ago
  The reality is (and not in defence id managers) managers are getting just as effed by "leadership" (ever notice how managers are framed as scumbags but leaders are saviors?) and sadly managers cannot tell employees - "hey mate we are all in the same boat getting effed so let us game it/survive it together" for fear of being outed as non company players. You are always supposed to sell the company as your own line! So they are squeezed from the top and the bottom. I keep switching between management and IC so I have a bit of empathy here.
  - whateveracct 2y ago
    Oh I totally see through that, true. It's obviously from the very top. I'm looking to switch to management for the first time for the empathy bit, myself.

asoneth 2y ago

> the grass isn't greener anywhere else That may be true, but even the act of looking can provide some measure of hope, which can make everything more bearable.

strict9 2y ago

The added bonus of replacing laid off tech staff with overseas contractors is another morale booster. The ball is squarely in the employer's court and they are maximizing their position accordingly.

ADeerAppeared 2y ago
> The added bonus of replacing laid off tech staff with overseas contractors is another morale booster. Woah, woah, they're not overseas, they're "Virtual Employees" now. You're not supposed to look behind the curtain.

eli_gottlieb 2y ago

Damn that sucks. Wanna seize the means of production?

psunavy03 2y ago
I remember my sophomore year of college.
randycupertino 2y ago
Reminds me of an oldie but a goodie- The Onion Weather Report - Revolt Forecasted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwHZVl5Buk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwHZVl5Buk
yoyohello13 2y ago
I assume you're joking, but I do think wealth inequality is a major driver of this.
pjc50 2y ago
The thing is: you've already got the means of production. You have a computer, your brain (the real core of software production), and the whole universe of open source / Free software out there. What people actually want is VC money salaries without having to pay the VC piper's price, which is more of a problem. (AI has changed this somewhat, because it's so energy-intensive that it's become a capital asset. And of course we have to consider the monopolistic nature of software markets.)
- janderson215 2y ago
  Most people don’t have this, but engineers do and we should be the last people complaining. We get paid well enough to save up and start a small company and take on the risk. The Borg can buy you out, but don’t give them your soul. The world is a better place with more entrepreneurs and new businesses. That part is on us.
- eli_gottlieb 2y ago
  How is going into business for oneself supposed to shorten your workday and decrease the number of fires you're putting out?

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

whateveracct 2y ago

I've been having to do stuff "as soon as possible" for over a year now. I'm at a mid sized company and in many ways the nagging to deliver ASAP is beyond even when I founded my own company. And if something is gonna take a few days or a week, all the managers do is ask me five times if I can instead divide the work and farm it out to other engineers. If it isn't taking on the order of hours, they want to throw people at it to go faster. Parallelism is clearly a manager KPI.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

weisnobody 2y ago

Grass! You have grass on your side? Lucky you. :P