8 ms·

The Sikh Practice of Langar, a Free Meal Where Everyone Is Equal

114 points by thunderbong 2y ago

Traubenfuchs 2y ago
My media literacy is not strong enough to understand if all the positive content about Sikh is "organic" or a very successful campaign by them to increase their reputation. On reddit I keep reading about them doing great things, volunteering, silently providing what is needed to people in emergencies, for example the current wildfires in the US. (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/1i0kavt https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/1i0kavt - currently prominently featured on the front page) And now there is even some on Hacker News. I am not disparaging anyone here, I am honestly curious about this pattern I have recognised.
- checker659 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Between the assassination in Canada [1] and attempted assassination on U.S. soil [2], there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed. (There may have also been awareness in the American and Canadian Sikh communities that they need to educate their fellow countrymen about who they are and why they’re the subject of what looks like a new form of state-sponsored terrorism.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/what-is-known-about-murder-sikh-separatist-leader-canada-2023-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/what-is-known-about-m... [2] https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216647148/after-foiled-assassination-attempt-theres-fear-amid-american-sikhs https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216647148/after-foiled-assas...
  - jgrahamc 2y ago
    there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed You didn't grow up in the UK then. Made me laugh to think of not knowing Sikhs exist.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > You didn't grow up in the UK then I didn’t, but I do have Indian heritage. I knew Sikhs existed and the basics of their customs, but I was unaware of e.g. Operation Blue Star [1] or the Khalistan independence/separatist movement [2]. Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement
      - OJFord 2y ago
        Do schools not teach about religion there? Sure not Khalistan (maybe in Geography or History it could be relevant), but about customs & beliefs beyond (or reason for) turbans, and certainly existence?
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Do schools not teach about religion there? Can’t speak for Canada. But my American curriculum didn’t cover the Sikhs. The exposure came from family and at community cultural festivals—it was superficial. Most Americans wouldn’t have even that.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I think the general issue is that while there is a focus on "ancient civilizations" (which, of course, covers India) Sikhism is too new to be covered in that. By the time the Middle Ages end and Enlightenment picks up almost all curricula swing back to Europe. I actually learned very little of what happened from 1500-1800ish around the world, besides how they related to the affairs of what was now some colony of a European country.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > a new form of state-sponsored terrorism Government assassinations of exilants... that's sadly not new at all. Back when Yugoslavia was governed by Tito, the regime sent out killer squads across the world for about half a century [1] - mostly Germany was targeted (because most Yugoslavs ended up there as Germany was rich and happily accepted emigrants fron Yugoslavia), but Croats got also targetted in places as far away as Canada, South Africa, Argentinia or Australia. It's a dark part of history many people to this day aren't aware of, it only made the news again for a short time after the attacks on Litvinenko, Skripal and Khangoshvili respectively. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Attentaten_auf_Exilkroaten_(1945%E2%80%931992) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Attentaten_auf_Exilk...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      You're correct. But it's not frequent on the American homeland.
  - obvious78 2y ago
    [dead]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- b800h 2y ago
  I get the impression that there's some sort of controversy that brewed over in the US / Canada recently. I'm based in the UK and my opinion of Sikhs has always been positive, as a general group.
  - navane 2y ago
    Yeah afaik they don't need to raise any reputation.
  - scheme271 2y ago
    The Indian government got caught trying to assassinate some Sikh activists that have previously called for an independent Sikh state. The Indian government considered them terrorists and the US/Canadian governments didn't.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Indian government got caught trying to assassinate some Sikh activists "A former Indian intelligence officer" [1] is charged with directing the attempted killing of "a dual citizen of the United States and Canada" [2] on American soil. (They succeeded in Canada [3].) It was an incredibly provocative and stupid move, on par with MBS's Khasshogi assasination, but if Riyadh had taken its bone saws to Pennsylvania. (A fair comparison would be America conducting a Bin Laden raid on an Indian national in India.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-ex-indian-intelligence-official-foiled-sikh-murder-plot-washington-2024-10-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-ex-indian-intellige... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurpatwant_Singh_Pannun#cite_note-reuters_thwarted_2023-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurpatwant_Singh_Pannun#cite_n... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Death,_subsequent_diplomatic_dispute_and_criminal_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Death,_su...
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Social media puts us all into an alternate reality. The video on Reddit is on some level a good example, as the title directly contradicts it's content. In the video you see precisely one person identifiable as a Sikh and many other people, who are clearly not Sikh, performing the same task. Most definitely it isn't "the Sikh community" doing anything. It isn't even clear who provided the resources here. Reddit especially is full of things like that, small snippets of an event presented as if it were the whole story. It is a very effective propaganda tactic and groups obviously benefit from portraying themselves a certain way and using these tactics to frame an issue a certain way.
  - 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
    not all sikhs wear a turban....... just so you know
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      What a novel revelation. Tell me then, what percentage of the Sikh population are white women? 40%?
      - sirtaj 2y ago
        Not sure, but 100% of the white women in my house are married to one.
        constantcrying 2y ago
        Who cares? Why are you responding with irrelevant trivia about yourself? I am sure you absolutely know that not 40% of your community is made up of white women and that obviously is the people unloading aren't all Sikhs. By the way, these responses are exactly what OP was talking about.
        sirtaj 2y ago
        Because you are making veiled assertions about a community cynically making charity about themselves, based on your quick visual analysis of a short reddit video. You're doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing, with an added dose of poor faith.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  Sikhs are literally the nicest. Just read anything about them from any source. Best if you can find someone how has ever met any. I've known some but you don't know me so it doesn't count for much. They are the real deal.
  - amriksohata 2y ago
    We shouldnt make general assumptions about any community as a positive on one minority can disparage another community, we are all human, come to see Sikh politics in Punjab and you can make your own judegments.
    - gjvc 2y ago
      "a positive on one minority can disparage another community" horseshit
    - Brian_K_White 2y ago
      Are you Sikh yourself? Because in my experience so far, one would never say a thing like this. While you did. That is an example of the difference in integrity between them and most anyone else. You would say "They're no so perfect", and maybe they aren't, but they would never say the same thing about you, regardless how true.
      - moomoo11 2y ago
        Tribalism around made up fantasies is one of the worst attributes of the human. All humans suffer from it.
        Brian_K_White 2y ago
        As an atheist myself, in full agreement on all the harms that descend from validating magical thinking. But so what? That's an observation of no relevance. That particular "tribe", fantasy and all, still put me to shame for being good people. Including specifically in the more intellecual impersonal justice/fairness ways that I generally like to think I have down. The observation about the harms of religion, in this case without an actual example of how it applies in this case, ends up only looking defensive. What are you threatened by that you feel the need to try to attack the simple assertion that some people are nice?
- prawn 2y ago
  I'd guess that it just came about after the wildfire story, and a few curious people looking further into it. From my one experience at a Langar event, it really was as advertised - very welcoming, zero pitch or expectation and quite refreshing.
- nkoren 2y ago
  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were organic, spurred on to some extent by recent news in Canada. Many years ago I worked on a project in Amritsar, which had me regularly engaged with the Golden Temple (the most sacred place in the Sikh religion) authorities. I have to say that all the Sikhs I interacted with were fantastic: honest, generous, hard-working, fun-loving, good-hearted people. I do think a lot of this was grounded in Sikh religious principles, which promote a kind of radical moderation that's actually pretty unique among religions. (the story goes that the founding guru of the Sikhs had two sons, one of whom destroyed his life with gambling and alcohol, and the other of whom destroyed his life with asceticism and abstinence. The guru repudiated both of them, saying that the latter was as much of a vice as the former. Instead, he preached that the point of life was to be happy, and to make other people happy: have a family and take good care of it, take care of other people, don't be an asshole, and have a good time. Balance these imperatives well, and you're doing God's work. As far as organised religions go, it's really pretty great. And langar at the Golden Temple is a truly amazing experience. Men and women from every strata of society, from every religion, sitting down together to eat good food in silence. No preaching or any other bullshit -- the shared togetherness and humanity is enough. Honestly, it's profound. One of my dreams for later in life, when I have the time, is to go back there for a few weeks and volunteer to cook in their kitchen. That said: Sikhs aren't all cuddles and sunshine. Early in their history they were strictly pacifistic, and also heavily persecuted. After a while, one of the head Gurus decided that if the way to do God's work was to live a good life, and there were oppressors who were committed to preventing you from doing so, then a necessary part of God's work would require, er, helping those oppressors to reincarnate as quickly as possible. Ever since then, they haven't been keen on turning the other cheek, and have had a very strong martial/military culture. There's still a very strong ethic that you shouldn't use violence unless there's absolutely no alternative -- but if you do have to use violence, then you might as well be bloody good at it. But of course the more that one participates in violence, the greyer the morality becomes. So I wouldn't dare wade into the India vs. Khalistan conflict: I'm sure that many of the beefs on both sides are well-founded at this point. But if you can separate the culture and the religion from the politics -- then yeah, it's a really great thing they've got going on there, and I think it's great for the world to have more exposure to it.
  - 2y ago
- copx 2y ago
  I think it's the same phenomenon as with the Kurds. Both groups need the West because they are existentially threatened in their native region and have no other allies. The Kurds are surrounded / occupied by Turks, Arabs, and Iranians - all who have a long history of trying to exterminate the Kurdish people / culture. Sikhs aren't any better off with their native lands being ruled by either Hindus or Muslims, two groups who have a long history of trying to exterminate the Sikhs. That's why both groups - quite frankly - suck up to the West so hard and are often picture perfect immigrants because they really don't want to be sent back. Because whatever "racism" you might think exists in the West, it is nothing compared to the religious hatred coming from Muslims and (to a lesser extend) Hindus.
  - rldjbpin 2y ago
    Interesting parallels, but some important distinctions needed: - Kurds have at least a millennium-old history [1], while Sikhism is much more recent in comparison. The latter do not share the same level of regional complexities as besides the diaspora migrating in the past century, their presence is shared between two countries split up during their independence. - In recent history we have seen armed conflicts with Kurd factions, especially in Syria, but this has not been the case for the past decades for the latter. The insurgent movements [2] for the latter were much like the IRA movement, in the past but not forgotten for some. From my eyes, it seems that a vocal small section of the expat population wants to promote the separatist ideals, for the land they have long left not out of fear of prosecution solely for their identity. The original article is a reflection of the act of servitude to others, but it is must be viewed separately from the conflicts a part of the group following the faith might have elsewhere. [1] http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement
bowsamic 2y ago
I’ve had langar before. They used to do it at my university in England. It’s a pretty good meal
- tarkin2 2y ago
  I saw it in Manchester city centre too
dghf 2y ago
Once a month (or possibly more often, I didn't keep track), the local Sikhs where I used to live would set up a stall on the high street and give away hot food to all-comers, no questions asked, donations gratefully received but absolutely not necessary, zero attempts at proselytising.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Man, I have memories of helping serve in a inner city "missions" as part of my (evangelical Xian) church youth group and with my parents once as well and in all instances there were so many strings attached -- at the time I didn't see anything wrong with it but the older I got the more it disturbed and upset me and led (in part) in the long run to my atheism. Was only later that I realized that at its onset Christian theology was novel among ancient religious systems in that it is not content with getting you to do deeds and rituals and be part of a religious community .. that's not enough. It requires complete psychological conversion ("ye must be born again") and subservience to the belief system, and also to get other people to do the same. And the "here's some food but what you really need is Jesus" thing goes along with that and really rubs me the wrong way. TLDR I respect faith communities that serve only for the sake of serving. I never saw that in mine.
  - WorldMaker 2y ago
    Something I've found helpful in my studies trying to square my own atheism with the faith of my parents and grandparents and trying to figure out how much of Xian faith to throw out with the bathwater, is how much it started to feel apparent that most of the blame for all this rests somewhat squarely with Paul. It's Paul's huge mansplaining-energy Letters that bulk up the New Testament with their Make the Roman Empire Great Again rhetoric [1]. It's Paul's Letters that do so much of the work to set the conservative "faith not deeds" and patriarchal "tithe to the church as the new Empire" problems. It Paul's Letters that most directly retcon the actual "services and deeds over beliefs" (and liberalism and disregard for the Roman Empire) of Jesus' actual messages in the Gospels. It's Paul's Letters that are so especially focused on the afterlife over the current life, in part because Paul wrote those letters as passive aggressive threats of war. I've about gotten to the point where I feel I can suggest that I will attend services with my family if I can get them agree that there will be no readings from any of Paul's Letters. That's a hard request to make sometimes because my family isn't evangelical but Roman Catholic, and Paul is hugely respected still by the Roman Catholic church (for the obvious reasons that it is the church that Paul most directly built). But it is slowly giving me a framework of being able to say here's where I have problems with your faith and here's what I like about the faith: the gospels minus the miracles, and the actual teachings of Jesus. (Unsurprisingly one of my favorite versions of the Bible is the Jefferson Bible. It's pamphlet sized. It might be so much better for the world if it replaced all the Gideon's Bibles. Also, I can recommend A Gospel for Liberals by Todd Eklof as another great view of the gospels.) [1] Very literally, so. Most of the "to" groups were conquests of the Roman Empire either threatening to leave or already left.
gigatexal 2y ago
I love this. If you’re going to be religious then being true to whatever that is and actually living that faith is cool — especially cool if it benefits society as a whole like this does.
fedeb95 2y ago
It is a nice practice, I experienced it also after some Christian masses.
- moomoo11 2y ago
  But without the forced conversion tactics. I’ve personally been converted 4 times. All times without my consent to be converted but it was so forceful I learned the 2nd time to just go along with it. By the 4th I learned to lie. All I wanted to do was help or just do my own thing.
  - fedeb95 2y ago
    depends. That wasn't my experience at all, and shouldn't be for anyone.
- ddtaylor 2y ago
  It's kind of similar. When I was homeless I tried to stay at shelter that had Christian ties. It never worked they always had hours of service and moving from ceremony or room to room which ate time while I needed to look for an apartment. Likewise all of the Christian places would not let me bring my laptop bag without putting it into a large pile of homeless cloths that anyone could take from. It was my only means of earning income and I couldn't allow that so I had to go leave my laptop bag in a storage unit 3 miles away.
makingstuffs 2y ago
Just to correct a small detail, you don’t need to attend a service to visit langar hall and have a meal. Generally Gurudwaras serve 3 meals a day and you can just visit them. From my experience they will do their utmost to serve you regardless of the time when you arrive. If you’re ever near one and want to serve they usually are very welcoming of any help and I find the process to be quite meditative, personally.
sudhirc 2y ago
[flagged]
- random654 2y ago
  This is a propaganda comment with all kinds of fallacies. It's all hindutva chest-beating in the name of sikhism. Sikhism has nothing to do with hindutva, and would want no association with it. For those not in the know, hindutva is a fascist group trying to masquerade as hindus.
  - sudhirc 2y ago
    What is the difference between the Hindus and Hindutva. Do you even know the meaning of word?
    - LightBug1 2y ago
      What's the difference between a right-leaning moderate and a far-right fascist? I think that probably sums it up for anyone not familiar with terms.
      - sudhirc 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - gsky 2y ago
    Stop being a racist. Read history before talking about other continent issues.
uwagar 2y ago
it would be so nice if i didnt have to cover my head whilst eating at a gurdwara.
- Beas 2y ago
  Fair! I never considered that covering one’s hair/head in the gurdwara might be difficult or uncomfortable for some people. If you ever want a meal, someone at the gurdwara might be able to load up a plate for you while you wait outside. This isn’t too different from people who take prasad/langar in their cars in Punjab (kind of like a langar drive through).
amriksohata 2y ago
Lovely, this concept predates Sikhism and is called Prasad in Hinduism. If you go to many Sikh or Hindu temples they offer free meals.
- random654 2y ago
  What does this thread have to do with Hinduism? Always love a shoe-horned hinduism comment. It's my favourite way to spot a hindutva member. Also, no, it doesn't predate. Or at least, there is no such record of it. What are your sources?
  - moomoo11 2y ago
    Why the hostility? That’s not what I gathered from their comment. And isn’t it a known fact that quite a few religions stemmed from Hinduism, like Jainism and Buddhism? Just like the other 2 Abrahamic faiths stemming from Judaism.
  - cwillu 2y ago
    Upvoted, but please be mindful of the guidelines here: “Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.”
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - amriksohata 2y ago
    why the hate? this is what the khalsa extremists were like, many religions have free food to offer
    - osrec 2y ago
      As a practicing Hindu, even I feel your original comment is inaccurate. There's free food, and then there's langar. The scale, quality and motives are just so different.
      - 2y ago
inSenCite 2y ago
Man, Langar is always awesome. They are not shy on serving size and the food is almost always legit amazing. Dont' miss out on the halwa! One of the mind blowing things about this is the sheer amount of people some of the Gurdwaras end up feeding (1000s) and how non-trivial the whole process is from kitchen to serving. All volunteers generally.
ddtaylor 2y ago
I experience good interactions with Sikh people. The local store I go to one is operated by a Sikh and the other is operated by an American - someone I went to school with ages ago. The Sikh store is always in shape and if I forget my wallet he let's me pay when I come back or calls me if I forget my wife's candy bar. The American store never looks up from his phone, when I forgot my wallet looked at me stunned at the idea of coming back next time (I am in daily and live down the road and operate a local business) and the one time I know I forgot something they made no attempt to resolve it and wanted me to buy another all with a very entitled tone.
nottorp 2y ago
I can't figure out if this is an article about Sikh practices that happens to include a recipe, or an article about the recipe with way too much extraneous information :)
- HelloNurse 2y ago
  The article can be both, discovering nice neighbours and their recipes aren't opposites.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Is it, or is it recipe SEO but instead of reminiscing about the taste of the madeleine^H^H^H^H poor aunt Jane's deprived childhood and cooking they pasted something legit about said Sikh practices?
    - HelloNurse 2y ago
      The recipe is obviously bad (e.g. it says to stir a pressure cooker, and to put lots of spices in a pressure cooker in the first place): I guess it is incompetently adapted from the overly terse notes of a Sikh cook who knows what they are talking about, and therefore it seems to be an attempt to add a useful appendix to a typical article about community life.
savrajsingh 2y ago
A key purpose for langar was to challenge the prevailing caste system — people of all castes would be equalized by sitting together and sharing a community meal, a revolutionary concept.
- __rito__ 2y ago
  Exactly. This is in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, where people has to sit on the floor and eat along with people of 36 castes- (so called) low and high, at the same level at festivals.
- WeylandYutani 2y ago
  Revolutionary in India. I am an atheist but I have to give Christianity credit all are equal before god.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Yes Sikhism was a result of/was heavily influenced by the Bhakti movement that started in the south of India around 1000 years ago and then rapidly spread through central and northern Indian. It’s akin to the Protestant movement in that it de emphasized the role of Brahmins and interlocutors and emphasized a personal relationship with god. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_movement
- himmatkhalsa 2y ago
  It's still revolutionary to sit down with people you don't know and share a delicious meal. Sitting on the floor is something we don't do all that often in the West, so IMO, that also opens one's eyes to a different perspective. Langar was and still is revolutionary!
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > still revolutionary to sit down with people you don't know and share a delicious meal The revolutionary part isn't sitting with strangers. It's sitting with strangers across classes. The equivalent to a langar in the West would be everyone in a community dining at the soup kitchen.
pkphilip 2y ago
I love the sikhs and their passion to serve. It is amazing to watch the richest sikhs serving alongside the poorest in the kitchens preparing the langar and then serving it
hshshshshsh 2y ago
If you think everyone is not equal just keep in mind that in 100 - 200 years the Universe is going to recycle you and everyone living here and allocate atoms and consciousness somewhere else. There would be no exceptions. Now meditate on this till you realize your resume or ego or sense of who you are is just a miscalculated compute cache you hold on to keep your mind away from this truth.
- stephenitis 2y ago
  Existential Crisis, Terror, Acceptabce
- ddtaylor 2y ago
  In theory we exist to escape that and truth is temporal.
  - hshshshshsh 2y ago
    What does truth is temporal mean?
    - ddtaylor 2y ago
      It means one thing being true for one person changes both with respect to that person but more importantly with respect to time. What most people believed was truth 500 years ago is mostly removed now and we have to understand them on the information they had at the time.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Why does it matter so much what people think about everyone else? e.g. Someone can think everyone worships the flying spagetti monster or UFOs or whatever. And I’ll merrily go on life not knowing or caring.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
atonse 2y ago
Even though I am Hindu by birth (but not at all religious, personally), I always admire Sikhs culture of service. I want to post this video[1] because I think the HN crew will appreciate this. When you feed people for free, more people show up. So instead of turning them away, what do you do? You use machines and efficiency to feed MORE people. It is absolutely amazing. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWWe2U41N8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWWe2U41N8 When I think about how our schools (in America) mostly feed kids processed frozen sad looking food, I think about videos like this. Where there's a will, there's a way... to feed kids and others fresh food with real ingredients with the help of automation.
- sanmon3186 2y ago
  It’s not uncommon for Hindus from northern India to worship Sikh Gurus alongside their own deities. Similarly Sikhs often visit Hindu temples. This is generally not seen as unusual. While there have been some instances of tension between the two communities, things are not as bad as media might suggest.
  - atonse 2y ago
    Right, I just meant that as an "outsider" I admire this particular pillar of values that are espoused daily.
janekm 2y ago
I often see charitable groups from the Sikh community in central London serving the homeless. Interesting to hear the background around that! https://asiasamachar.com/2023/10/10/meet-the-sikh-community-feeding-londoners-for-free-for-the-last-eight-years/ https://asiasamachar.com/2023/10/10/meet-the-sikh-community-...
kjsingh 2y ago
Langar halls are also places of community where you can interact with strangers in your area and build sangat (similar to community). Most people would do sewa (help out) in langar and then eat. Also you cannot waste. People would eat down to last bit rice before handing back plates. The one who is taking Langar, the one who is serving, consider each other as Guru (Waheguru/God) doing both the serving and consumption of food. Washing the plates is the most imp sewa and usually that part of kitchen is always busy (people seek it).

114 points by thunderbong 2y ago

My media literacy is not strong enough to understand if all the positive content about Sikh is "organic" or a very successful campaign by them to increase their reputation. On reddit I keep reading about them doing great things, volunteering, silently providing what is needed to people in emergencies, for example the current wildfires in the US. (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/1i0kavt https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/1i0kavt - currently prominently featured on the front page) And now there is even some on Hacker News. I am not disparaging anyone here, I am honestly curious about this pattern I have recognised.

checker659 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Between the assassination in Canada [1] and attempted assassination on U.S. soil [2], there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed. (There may have also been awareness in the American and Canadian Sikh communities that they need to educate their fellow countrymen about who they are and why they’re the subject of what looks like a new form of state-sponsored terrorism.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/what-is-known-about-murder-sikh-separatist-leader-canada-2023-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/what-is-known-about-m... [2] https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216647148/after-foiled-assassination-attempt-theres-fear-amid-american-sikhs https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216647148/after-foiled-assas...
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed You didn't grow up in the UK then. Made me laugh to think of not knowing Sikhs exist.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > You didn't grow up in the UK then I didn’t, but I do have Indian heritage. I knew Sikhs existed and the basics of their customs, but I was unaware of e.g. Operation Blue Star [1] or the Khalistan independence/separatist movement [2]. Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement
    - OJFord 2y ago
      Do schools not teach about religion there? Sure not Khalistan (maybe in Geography or History it could be relevant), but about customs & beliefs beyond (or reason for) turbans, and certainly existence?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Do schools not teach about religion there? Can’t speak for Canada. But my American curriculum didn’t cover the Sikhs. The exposure came from family and at community cultural festivals—it was superficial. Most Americans wouldn’t have even that.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I think the general issue is that while there is a focus on "ancient civilizations" (which, of course, covers India) Sikhism is too new to be covered in that. By the time the Middle Ages end and Enlightenment picks up almost all curricula swing back to Europe. I actually learned very little of what happened from 1500-1800ish around the world, besides how they related to the affairs of what was now some colony of a European country.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > a new form of state-sponsored terrorism Government assassinations of exilants... that's sadly not new at all. Back when Yugoslavia was governed by Tito, the regime sent out killer squads across the world for about half a century [1] - mostly Germany was targeted (because most Yugoslavs ended up there as Germany was rich and happily accepted emigrants fron Yugoslavia), but Croats got also targetted in places as far away as Canada, South Africa, Argentinia or Australia. It's a dark part of history many people to this day aren't aware of, it only made the news again for a short time after the attacks on Litvinenko, Skripal and Khangoshvili respectively. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Attentaten_auf_Exilkroaten_(1945%E2%80%931992) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Attentaten_auf_Exilk...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    You're correct. But it's not frequent on the American homeland.
- obvious78 2y ago
  [dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
b800h 2y ago
I get the impression that there's some sort of controversy that brewed over in the US / Canada recently. I'm based in the UK and my opinion of Sikhs has always been positive, as a general group.
- navane 2y ago
  Yeah afaik they don't need to raise any reputation.
- scheme271 2y ago
  The Indian government got caught trying to assassinate some Sikh activists that have previously called for an independent Sikh state. The Indian government considered them terrorists and the US/Canadian governments didn't.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Indian government got caught trying to assassinate some Sikh activists "A former Indian intelligence officer" [1] is charged with directing the attempted killing of "a dual citizen of the United States and Canada" [2] on American soil. (They succeeded in Canada [3].) It was an incredibly provocative and stupid move, on par with MBS's Khasshogi assasination, but if Riyadh had taken its bone saws to Pennsylvania. (A fair comparison would be America conducting a Bin Laden raid on an Indian national in India.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-ex-indian-intelligence-official-foiled-sikh-murder-plot-washington-2024-10-17/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-ex-indian-intellige... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurpatwant_Singh_Pannun#cite_note-reuters_thwarted_2023-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurpatwant_Singh_Pannun#cite_n... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Death,_subsequent_diplomatic_dispute_and_criminal_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Death,_su...
constantcrying 2y ago
Social media puts us all into an alternate reality. The video on Reddit is on some level a good example, as the title directly contradicts it's content. In the video you see precisely one person identifiable as a Sikh and many other people, who are clearly not Sikh, performing the same task. Most definitely it isn't "the Sikh community" doing anything. It isn't even clear who provided the resources here. Reddit especially is full of things like that, small snippets of an event presented as if it were the whole story. It is a very effective propaganda tactic and groups obviously benefit from portraying themselves a certain way and using these tactics to frame an issue a certain way.
- 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
  not all sikhs wear a turban....... just so you know
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    What a novel revelation. Tell me then, what percentage of the Sikh population are white women? 40%?
    - sirtaj 2y ago
      Not sure, but 100% of the white women in my house are married to one.
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        Who cares? Why are you responding with irrelevant trivia about yourself? I am sure you absolutely know that not 40% of your community is made up of white women and that obviously is the people unloading aren't all Sikhs. By the way, these responses are exactly what OP was talking about.
        sirtaj 2y ago
        Because you are making veiled assertions about a community cynically making charity about themselves, based on your quick visual analysis of a short reddit video. You're doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing, with an added dose of poor faith.
Brian_K_White 2y ago
Sikhs are literally the nicest. Just read anything about them from any source. Best if you can find someone how has ever met any. I've known some but you don't know me so it doesn't count for much. They are the real deal.
- amriksohata 2y ago
  We shouldnt make general assumptions about any community as a positive on one minority can disparage another community, we are all human, come to see Sikh politics in Punjab and you can make your own judegments.
  - gjvc 2y ago
    "a positive on one minority can disparage another community" horseshit
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    Are you Sikh yourself? Because in my experience so far, one would never say a thing like this. While you did. That is an example of the difference in integrity between them and most anyone else. You would say "They're no so perfect", and maybe they aren't, but they would never say the same thing about you, regardless how true.
    - moomoo11 2y ago
      Tribalism around made up fantasies is one of the worst attributes of the human. All humans suffer from it.
      - Brian_K_White 2y ago
        As an atheist myself, in full agreement on all the harms that descend from validating magical thinking. But so what? That's an observation of no relevance. That particular "tribe", fantasy and all, still put me to shame for being good people. Including specifically in the more intellecual impersonal justice/fairness ways that I generally like to think I have down. The observation about the harms of religion, in this case without an actual example of how it applies in this case, ends up only looking defensive. What are you threatened by that you feel the need to try to attack the simple assertion that some people are nice?
prawn 2y ago
I'd guess that it just came about after the wildfire story, and a few curious people looking further into it. From my one experience at a Langar event, it really was as advertised - very welcoming, zero pitch or expectation and quite refreshing.
nkoren 2y ago
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were organic, spurred on to some extent by recent news in Canada. Many years ago I worked on a project in Amritsar, which had me regularly engaged with the Golden Temple (the most sacred place in the Sikh religion) authorities. I have to say that all the Sikhs I interacted with were fantastic: honest, generous, hard-working, fun-loving, good-hearted people. I do think a lot of this was grounded in Sikh religious principles, which promote a kind of radical moderation that's actually pretty unique among religions. (the story goes that the founding guru of the Sikhs had two sons, one of whom destroyed his life with gambling and alcohol, and the other of whom destroyed his life with asceticism and abstinence. The guru repudiated both of them, saying that the latter was as much of a vice as the former. Instead, he preached that the point of life was to be happy, and to make other people happy: have a family and take good care of it, take care of other people, don't be an asshole, and have a good time. Balance these imperatives well, and you're doing God's work. As far as organised religions go, it's really pretty great. And langar at the Golden Temple is a truly amazing experience. Men and women from every strata of society, from every religion, sitting down together to eat good food in silence. No preaching or any other bullshit -- the shared togetherness and humanity is enough. Honestly, it's profound. One of my dreams for later in life, when I have the time, is to go back there for a few weeks and volunteer to cook in their kitchen. That said: Sikhs aren't all cuddles and sunshine. Early in their history they were strictly pacifistic, and also heavily persecuted. After a while, one of the head Gurus decided that if the way to do God's work was to live a good life, and there were oppressors who were committed to preventing you from doing so, then a necessary part of God's work would require, er, helping those oppressors to reincarnate as quickly as possible. Ever since then, they haven't been keen on turning the other cheek, and have had a very strong martial/military culture. There's still a very strong ethic that you shouldn't use violence unless there's absolutely no alternative -- but if you do have to use violence, then you might as well be bloody good at it. But of course the more that one participates in violence, the greyer the morality becomes. So I wouldn't dare wade into the India vs. Khalistan conflict: I'm sure that many of the beefs on both sides are well-founded at this point. But if you can separate the culture and the religion from the politics -- then yeah, it's a really great thing they've got going on there, and I think it's great for the world to have more exposure to it.
- 2y ago
copx 2y ago
I think it's the same phenomenon as with the Kurds. Both groups need the West because they are existentially threatened in their native region and have no other allies. The Kurds are surrounded / occupied by Turks, Arabs, and Iranians - all who have a long history of trying to exterminate the Kurdish people / culture. Sikhs aren't any better off with their native lands being ruled by either Hindus or Muslims, two groups who have a long history of trying to exterminate the Sikhs. That's why both groups - quite frankly - suck up to the West so hard and are often picture perfect immigrants because they really don't want to be sent back. Because whatever "racism" you might think exists in the West, it is nothing compared to the religious hatred coming from Muslims and (to a lesser extend) Hindus.
- rldjbpin 2y ago
  Interesting parallels, but some important distinctions needed: - Kurds have at least a millennium-old history [1], while Sikhism is much more recent in comparison. The latter do not share the same level of regional complexities as besides the diaspora migrating in the past century, their presence is shared between two countries split up during their independence. - In recent history we have seen armed conflicts with Kurd factions, especially in Syria, but this has not been the case for the past decades for the latter. The insurgent movements [2] for the latter were much like the IRA movement, in the past but not forgotten for some. From my eyes, it seems that a vocal small section of the expat population wants to promote the separatist ideals, for the land they have long left not out of fear of prosecution solely for their identity. The original article is a reflection of the act of servitude to others, but it is must be viewed separately from the conflicts a part of the group following the faith might have elsewhere. [1] http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement

bowsamic 2y ago

I’ve had langar before. They used to do it at my university in England. It’s a pretty good meal

tarkin2 2y ago
I saw it in Manchester city centre too

dghf 2y ago

Once a month (or possibly more often, I didn't keep track), the local Sikhs where I used to live would set up a stall on the high street and give away hot food to all-comers, no questions asked, donations gratefully received but absolutely not necessary, zero attempts at proselytising.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Man, I have memories of helping serve in a inner city "missions" as part of my (evangelical Xian) church youth group and with my parents once as well and in all instances there were so many strings attached -- at the time I didn't see anything wrong with it but the older I got the more it disturbed and upset me and led (in part) in the long run to my atheism. Was only later that I realized that at its onset Christian theology was novel among ancient religious systems in that it is not content with getting you to do deeds and rituals and be part of a religious community .. that's not enough. It requires complete psychological conversion ("ye must be born again") and subservience to the belief system, and also to get other people to do the same. And the "here's some food but what you really need is Jesus" thing goes along with that and really rubs me the wrong way. TLDR I respect faith communities that serve only for the sake of serving. I never saw that in mine.
- WorldMaker 2y ago
  Something I've found helpful in my studies trying to square my own atheism with the faith of my parents and grandparents and trying to figure out how much of Xian faith to throw out with the bathwater, is how much it started to feel apparent that most of the blame for all this rests somewhat squarely with Paul. It's Paul's huge mansplaining-energy Letters that bulk up the New Testament with their Make the Roman Empire Great Again rhetoric [1]. It's Paul's Letters that do so much of the work to set the conservative "faith not deeds" and patriarchal "tithe to the church as the new Empire" problems. It Paul's Letters that most directly retcon the actual "services and deeds over beliefs" (and liberalism and disregard for the Roman Empire) of Jesus' actual messages in the Gospels. It's Paul's Letters that are so especially focused on the afterlife over the current life, in part because Paul wrote those letters as passive aggressive threats of war. I've about gotten to the point where I feel I can suggest that I will attend services with my family if I can get them agree that there will be no readings from any of Paul's Letters. That's a hard request to make sometimes because my family isn't evangelical but Roman Catholic, and Paul is hugely respected still by the Roman Catholic church (for the obvious reasons that it is the church that Paul most directly built). But it is slowly giving me a framework of being able to say here's where I have problems with your faith and here's what I like about the faith: the gospels minus the miracles, and the actual teachings of Jesus. (Unsurprisingly one of my favorite versions of the Bible is the Jefferson Bible. It's pamphlet sized. It might be so much better for the world if it replaced all the Gideon's Bibles. Also, I can recommend A Gospel for Liberals by Todd Eklof as another great view of the gospels.) [1] Very literally, so. Most of the "to" groups were conquests of the Roman Empire either threatening to leave or already left.

gigatexal 2y ago

I love this. If you’re going to be religious then being true to whatever that is and actually living that faith is cool — especially cool if it benefits society as a whole like this does.

fedeb95 2y ago

It is a nice practice, I experienced it also after some Christian masses.

moomoo11 2y ago
But without the forced conversion tactics. I’ve personally been converted 4 times. All times without my consent to be converted but it was so forceful I learned the 2nd time to just go along with it. By the 4th I learned to lie. All I wanted to do was help or just do my own thing.
- fedeb95 2y ago
  depends. That wasn't my experience at all, and shouldn't be for anyone.
ddtaylor 2y ago
It's kind of similar. When I was homeless I tried to stay at shelter that had Christian ties. It never worked they always had hours of service and moving from ceremony or room to room which ate time while I needed to look for an apartment. Likewise all of the Christian places would not let me bring my laptop bag without putting it into a large pile of homeless cloths that anyone could take from. It was my only means of earning income and I couldn't allow that so I had to go leave my laptop bag in a storage unit 3 miles away.

makingstuffs 2y ago

Just to correct a small detail, you don’t need to attend a service to visit langar hall and have a meal. Generally Gurudwaras serve 3 meals a day and you can just visit them. From my experience they will do their utmost to serve you regardless of the time when you arrive. If you’re ever near one and want to serve they usually are very welcoming of any help and I find the process to be quite meditative, personally.

sudhirc 2y ago

[flagged]

random654 2y ago
This is a propaganda comment with all kinds of fallacies. It's all hindutva chest-beating in the name of sikhism. Sikhism has nothing to do with hindutva, and would want no association with it. For those not in the know, hindutva is a fascist group trying to masquerade as hindus.
- sudhirc 2y ago
  What is the difference between the Hindus and Hindutva. Do you even know the meaning of word?
  - LightBug1 2y ago
    What's the difference between a right-leaning moderate and a far-right fascist? I think that probably sums it up for anyone not familiar with terms.
    - sudhirc 2y ago
      [flagged]
- gsky 2y ago
  Stop being a racist. Read history before talking about other continent issues.

uwagar 2y ago

it would be so nice if i didnt have to cover my head whilst eating at a gurdwara.

Beas 2y ago
Fair! I never considered that covering one’s hair/head in the gurdwara might be difficult or uncomfortable for some people. If you ever want a meal, someone at the gurdwara might be able to load up a plate for you while you wait outside. This isn’t too different from people who take prasad/langar in their cars in Punjab (kind of like a langar drive through).

amriksohata 2y ago

Lovely, this concept predates Sikhism and is called Prasad in Hinduism. If you go to many Sikh or Hindu temples they offer free meals.

random654 2y ago
What does this thread have to do with Hinduism? Always love a shoe-horned hinduism comment. It's my favourite way to spot a hindutva member. Also, no, it doesn't predate. Or at least, there is no such record of it. What are your sources?
- moomoo11 2y ago
  Why the hostility? That’s not what I gathered from their comment. And isn’t it a known fact that quite a few religions stemmed from Hinduism, like Jainism and Buddhism? Just like the other 2 Abrahamic faiths stemming from Judaism.
- cwillu 2y ago
  Upvoted, but please be mindful of the guidelines here: “Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.”
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- amriksohata 2y ago
  why the hate? this is what the khalsa extremists were like, many religions have free food to offer
  - osrec 2y ago
    As a practicing Hindu, even I feel your original comment is inaccurate. There's free food, and then there's langar. The scale, quality and motives are just so different.
    - 2y ago

inSenCite 2y ago

Man, Langar is always awesome. They are not shy on serving size and the food is almost always legit amazing. Dont' miss out on the halwa! One of the mind blowing things about this is the sheer amount of people some of the Gurdwaras end up feeding (1000s) and how non-trivial the whole process is from kitchen to serving. All volunteers generally.

ddtaylor 2y ago

I experience good interactions with Sikh people. The local store I go to one is operated by a Sikh and the other is operated by an American - someone I went to school with ages ago. The Sikh store is always in shape and if I forget my wallet he let's me pay when I come back or calls me if I forget my wife's candy bar. The American store never looks up from his phone, when I forgot my wallet looked at me stunned at the idea of coming back next time (I am in daily and live down the road and operate a local business) and the one time I know I forgot something they made no attempt to resolve it and wanted me to buy another all with a very entitled tone.

nottorp 2y ago

I can't figure out if this is an article about Sikh practices that happens to include a recipe, or an article about the recipe with way too much extraneous information :)

HelloNurse 2y ago
The article can be both, discovering nice neighbours and their recipes aren't opposites.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Is it, or is it recipe SEO but instead of reminiscing about the taste of the madeleine^H^H^H^H poor aunt Jane's deprived childhood and cooking they pasted something legit about said Sikh practices?
  - HelloNurse 2y ago
    The recipe is obviously bad (e.g. it says to stir a pressure cooker, and to put lots of spices in a pressure cooker in the first place): I guess it is incompetently adapted from the overly terse notes of a Sikh cook who knows what they are talking about, and therefore it seems to be an attempt to add a useful appendix to a typical article about community life.

savrajsingh 2y ago

A key purpose for langar was to challenge the prevailing caste system — people of all castes would be equalized by sitting together and sharing a community meal, a revolutionary concept.

__rito__ 2y ago
Exactly. This is in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, where people has to sit on the floor and eat along with people of 36 castes- (so called) low and high, at the same level at festivals.
WeylandYutani 2y ago
Revolutionary in India. I am an atheist but I have to give Christianity credit all are equal before god.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Yes Sikhism was a result of/was heavily influenced by the Bhakti movement that started in the south of India around 1000 years ago and then rapidly spread through central and northern Indian. It’s akin to the Protestant movement in that it de emphasized the role of Brahmins and interlocutors and emphasized a personal relationship with god. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_movement
himmatkhalsa 2y ago
It's still revolutionary to sit down with people you don't know and share a delicious meal. Sitting on the floor is something we don't do all that often in the West, so IMO, that also opens one's eyes to a different perspective. Langar was and still is revolutionary!
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > still revolutionary to sit down with people you don't know and share a delicious meal The revolutionary part isn't sitting with strangers. It's sitting with strangers across classes. The equivalent to a langar in the West would be everyone in a community dining at the soup kitchen.

pkphilip 2y ago

I love the sikhs and their passion to serve. It is amazing to watch the richest sikhs serving alongside the poorest in the kitchens preparing the langar and then serving it

hshshshshsh 2y ago

If you think everyone is not equal just keep in mind that in 100 - 200 years the Universe is going to recycle you and everyone living here and allocate atoms and consciousness somewhere else. There would be no exceptions. Now meditate on this till you realize your resume or ego or sense of who you are is just a miscalculated compute cache you hold on to keep your mind away from this truth.

stephenitis 2y ago
Existential Crisis, Terror, Acceptabce
ddtaylor 2y ago
In theory we exist to escape that and truth is temporal.
- hshshshshsh 2y ago
  What does truth is temporal mean?
  - ddtaylor 2y ago
    It means one thing being true for one person changes both with respect to that person but more importantly with respect to time. What most people believed was truth 500 years ago is mostly removed now and we have to understand them on the information they had at the time.
MichaelZuo 2y ago
Why does it matter so much what people think about everyone else? e.g. Someone can think everyone worships the flying spagetti monster or UFOs or whatever. And I’ll merrily go on life not knowing or caring.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago

atonse 2y ago

Even though I am Hindu by birth (but not at all religious, personally), I always admire Sikhs culture of service. I want to post this video[1] because I think the HN crew will appreciate this. When you feed people for free, more people show up. So instead of turning them away, what do you do? You use machines and efficiency to feed MORE people. It is absolutely amazing. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWWe2U41N8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWWe2U41N8 When I think about how our schools (in America) mostly feed kids processed frozen sad looking food, I think about videos like this. Where there's a will, there's a way... to feed kids and others fresh food with real ingredients with the help of automation.

sanmon3186 2y ago
It’s not uncommon for Hindus from northern India to worship Sikh Gurus alongside their own deities. Similarly Sikhs often visit Hindu temples. This is generally not seen as unusual. While there have been some instances of tension between the two communities, things are not as bad as media might suggest.
- atonse 2y ago
  Right, I just meant that as an "outsider" I admire this particular pillar of values that are espoused daily.

janekm 2y ago

I often see charitable groups from the Sikh community in central London serving the homeless. Interesting to hear the background around that! https://asiasamachar.com/2023/10/10/meet-the-sikh-community-feeding-londoners-for-free-for-the-last-eight-years/ https://asiasamachar.com/2023/10/10/meet-the-sikh-community-...

kjsingh 2y ago

Langar halls are also places of community where you can interact with strangers in your area and build sangat (similar to community). Most people would do sewa (help out) in langar and then eat. Also you cannot waste. People would eat down to last bit rice before handing back plates. The one who is taking Langar, the one who is serving, consider each other as Guru (Waheguru/God) doing both the serving and consumption of food. Washing the plates is the most imp sewa and usually that part of kitchen is always busy (people seek it).