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Hyundai just launched its cheapest EV in Japan
- martin_henk 2y agoNissan has launched its very cheap EV called Sakura around 2 or 3 years ago? Should hover around the same price point and can be ordered with ProPilot 2 as a option I think https://www.businessinsider.com/japans-best-selling-ev-nissan-sakura-car-drivers-review-photos-2023-11#:~:text=Nissan%20told%20Insider%20that%20prices,out%20at%20just%20over%20%2413%2C000 https://www.businessinsider.com/japans-best-selling-ev-nissa....
- NotSammyHagar 2y agoI don't see any information about whether they will bring these into the US. They'd sell well here. It will be hard to make a profit on these, because you can't have much overhead. But clearly, a less than $20k ev with ~200-220 miles, a city car, would sell very well in the us. It would open up EV ownership to more groups. Imagine what a 2 or 3 year old one would sell for? Those used ones would again open up EVs to new groups.
- aurareturn 2y agoUS car industry and government are too in bed together to allow competition.
- tdb7893 2y agoThe longest drive I ever do is 350 miles (most days I drive less than 10 miles) so a cheap EV with slightly more than 200 mile range would be perfect. I already own a steam deck and have books on my phone so stopping to charge once or twice is the opposite of a problem. Less than 20k would be crazy, that's the price I paid for my Fit 8 years ago
- killerpopiller 2y agoastonishing how different the needs are. Driving to a holiday destination in Germany I often double that or even travel over 1000km.
- maxerickson 2y agoWhy do you say even? 350 miles is 563 km, doubling that is a good bit more than 1000 km.
- klooney 2y agoThis is basically the Nissan Leaf's lane, albeit at like, 26k. It hasn't done that well after the initial rush, I think? Americans have long commutes.
- wat10000 2y agoA 200 mile range would cover 99% of American commutes. The real issue is that Americans buy their cars for road trips. Even if it’s only once every year or two and it would be way cheaper to buy a cheaper car and rent a more capable one for the road trips, people generally won’t do it.
- bobthepanda 2y agoGiven how shoddy rental car companies can be, that’s not really that irrational.
- RankingMember 2y ago> They'd sell well here. I'd love to agree because I like kei cars and small cars in general, but I don't think they would. These cars on US roads would be dwarfed by SUVs and pickups, and Americans have voted with their wallets that they don't want small cars, which is why manufacturers have almost uniformly stopped making them (most don't even make regular mid-size sedans anymore).
- Glyptodon 2y agoI think cars are now so expensive that a small car, van, or truck that was like half as expensive but high utility would sell well.
- numpad0 2y agoI too have long assumed that EVs would appeal more to city dwellers but apparently it's the opposite. City drivers can pull over anytime they like for gas topups and only when they've driven the car, so setting up charging infrastructure and having to plug in every day without failure just to remove gas stops makes little sense to them. OTOH, gas stations for rural house owners are travel destinations of its own, and they welcome offgrid home charging and everyday full tanks. Short range grocery getter EV exists in the middle ground of those extremes, only in locations where it's rural enough that finding gas is annoying enough, while at the same time daily driving range is short enough that the car's range covers it. Only reason urban citizens would prefer EVs is if they have specific opinions about personally owning ICE device, but those people aren't the biggest majority.
- karlshea 2y agoAn EV would start to get pretty irritating if your only option is street parking. I have a garage I could charge one in right now, but most of the people on my block don’t. And if I wanted to move I may not end up with one.
- nasmorn 2y agoActually owning an EV in Vienna for a bit more than a year that has turned out to be a non issue. We charge all our city driving range during curb parking around the city. Parking at a charger is actually easier since non charging vehicles are banned and fairly cheap since regular parking would also incur a cost.
- karlshea 2y agoWell that works for you since there is curb charging, that isn't built out here at all. I agree if it was then it would be a non-issue.
- fallinghawks 2y agoThe Sakura is briefly mentioned at the end of the article, a bit less expensive at $16,500 (2.6 million yen)
- numpad0 2y ago> Buyers in Japan can choose from three trims with prices ranging from 2,849,000 yen ($18,000) to 3,575,000 yen ($22,700). It might be $18k normalized in USD, but locally still "$35k" product.
- bikitan 2y agoThis is key. The yen is still weak, so framing it in terms of today's value in USD is going to make it seem much more affordable than it actually is for the average Japanese person.
- mitthrowaway2 2y agoThat definitely matters for the marketing landscape in Japan. But as far as Hyundai's ability to make a profit at that price, it's still a big challenge to US automakers like Tesla, isn't it?
- numpad0 2y agoI think it's a nontrivial problem for automakers, and then it squares for Tesla.
- beAbU 2y agoNeed to equate it to a number of McDs cheeseburgers that amount of money can buy.
- triceratops 2y agoHow many football fields can it buy?
- beAbU 2y agoIs that an imperial or metric football field?
- minebreaker 2y agoI don't think this goes well. $18,000 is not cheap at all. People will just buy Spacia for $10,000 and can't be happier.
- jader201 2y agoI bought my first new car in 1999 only two years out of college for about $20k. In 1999. $18k today for an electric car is far from “not cheap at all”.
- minebreaker 2y agoObviously you don't understand the Japanese market. College graduates earn ¥2,160,000 in average in their first year. So yeah, $18,000 is not cheap at all. As I said you can buy a brand new Suzuki Spacia for ¥1,500,000, and it's not a random car from a random brand. Suzuki is much popular than Nissan or Subaru in Japan. Yes, it's an ICE car but if you think Japanese will pay extra money just because it's EV that is the huge mistake.
- jader201 2y agoYeah, fair point, I’m completely just talking US market here. I’m assuming this would go for the same price ($18k) in the US, where that would be a very good price for an EV. I would love to see an EV in the US for sub-$20k.
- numpad0 2y agoCheapest car with 4 wheels in Japan is like $6300. That price range is something like $23k in US. Average wages in Japan has literally flatlined since like 1995. It's not like this car is equivalent of 4x18k in local currency, but not that far from it.
- Dalewyn 2y agoThis is a very stark contrast to SonyHonda's upcoming Afeela 1 starting at an eyewatering $90,000 USD. https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/6/24336375/sony-honda-afeela-ev-preorder-price-ces https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/6/24336375/sony-honda-afeela...
- wewtyflakes 2y agoAfeela they wont sell many of those when there is so many EV options in that price envelope.
- twelvechairs 2y agoChina has dozens of even cheaper EVs. The best selling electric car in China - the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV [0] is just over $4,000 USD. There are now also convertible and 5-door versions too. And a version being produced in the EU (Vilnius) that is just under 10,000EUR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV
- timewizard 2y ago"Early models did not include a driver airbag, but later models such as the Mini EV Macaron include the feature as standard." You don't get what you don't pay for. Scary that's even an option.
- tomrod 2y agoWhen the median vehicle in the US is the size of a small commercial freight vehicle, absolutely. It's a vicious cycle driven entirely by gaps in CAFE standards and overcompensation for perceived personal flaws.
- timewizard 2y ago> When the median vehicle in the US is the size of a small commercial freight vehicle, absolutely. It's the mass that matters. Even smaller cars, and in particular EVs, are getting heavier even though they're not getting larger. The major contributor to this weight gain is, yep, safety systems. > It's a vicious cycle driven entirely by gaps in CAFE standards and overcompensation for perceived personal flaws. I don't think you're being entirely objective. 1/6 of all vehicle fatalities are actually pedestrians. 1/6 are motorcycles. 1/2 involve drugs or alcohol. 1/2 are single car accidents. There's a lot of contributors to roadway fatalities, like people who get flung out of the vehicle. That still happens more than it should.
- 1123581321 2y agoChina is not a particularly safe country, going by road deaths. It would be foolish to think small cars make airbags unnecessary.
- neya 2y agoThis looks like they just slapped a battery and motor on what they sell in India as the Exter. So, doesn't look like a dedicated EV platform that it's built on. But still, decent VFM. I think they might not be that much successful in breaking into the Japanese EV market because the Japanese don't buy products based on just price alone, but rather based on the company's nationality as well. And Koreans and Japanese are always competitors and Japanese people are quite patriotic. It will be interesting to watch, nevertheless.
- numpad0 2y agoLooks like Hyundai and BYD sold high three digits and low four digits in Japan during 2024, surprising but growth is definitely not exponential. Tesla's interestingly in high four too and not growing. I wonder what are differentiations for these cars in context of Japan against local cars with local factories. I can see that Teslas would be substantially different from Leafs, but what pain points of Japanese cars do IONIQ 5 or Seal solve?
- Animats 2y agoBYD's current line is generally considered OK by reviewers. The comparable BYD product is the Dolphin, at $13,700. It's much better looking, too.
- pg5 2y agoI would absolutely love a low tech electric car - like an Elantra hatchback EV. I hate how every EV has to be all touchscreen-based with fancy software that needs to be updated frrquently just to drive.
- VariousPrograms 2y agoAre there any simple vehicles left in the US, EV or otherwise? The lowest frills cars I can think of are the Mirage and Versa, both on their last legs. Similar to the vocal minorities who want compact hatchbacks, wagons, small trucks, or manual transmissions, it feels like so few people want simple, non-smartphoney cars that the market segment will never be catered to.
- toast0 2y agoPlenty of old cars out there. Otherwise, it's hard to know what people really want in the car market, because most buyers are settling for something that's at a dealer and not ordering specifics, some makes don't allow orders, and even if you can order it's still trims and packages. For the most part, every car made gets sold, too. If a car is undesirable, it gets a lot of incentives to get it off the lot. If the car maker misunderstood demand, a dud can still have large sales numbers, because some people will buy it when it's cheap enough.
- constantcrying 2y agoThose cars are illegal to make. Any new car needs complex electronics to satisfy legal requirements, adding in an infotainment system is a negligible cost.
- ofrzeta 2y agoIt's still a lot of money. For instance Mitsubishi Space Star starts at around 13k with a gas engine. Why are EVs so expensive? We were told technology is comparatively less complex, so it should be cheaper, right? Is it only economy of scale?
- numpad0 2y agoIsn't it just the raw materials cost of battery? I mean, gold bullions are technologically not that complicated to make, right?
- ofrzeta 2y agoextrapolating from that page https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-batteries-cost/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-b... the battery cost should be around $8000. Also this https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/ https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-... Although the price of lithium has "skyrocketed" it is now previous levels. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium Do we see this reflected in battery or EV car prices?
- numpad0 2y agoWhat's the kind of delta to be reasonably expected relative to ICE? The cost for the entire ICE drivetrain is estimated to be between somewhere between 1.5k to 10k depending on cars and analysts, so 8k in bare cells before factoring in engineering and manufacturing costs that aren't subsidized by a century long inertia of ICE industry is already significant extra. Really the ones tooting "EV should be cheap to make" horn are Tesla guys. They're not doing engines unless gigacasts is a weird foreshadowing. I doubt it make sense to take it too seriously beyond as a conceptual hand-wavy panel discussion quote when the opposite had been the case for nearly 15 years.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoHow do you figure $8000? $8000 is the cost of a 62kWh NMC battery in 2023 in your link. A 45kWh NMC battery in 2025 is probably about half that cost.
- mb__ 2y ago[dead]
- bane 2y agoKorean car companies are making lots of headway by trying everything. Honda makes a big deal about the Clarity of LPG converted civic. Almost everybody I know in Korea has some combination of different fuel types and transmissions. It's sort of a wild "east" and the Korean companies are throwing everything at the wall. Among people I know off the top of my head: - VW diesel SUV (manual) - domestic diesel Kia SUV (automatic) - Tesla (auto?) - domestic petrol ancient Daewoo (manual) - domestic Hyundai LPG (auto) - domestic Hyundai Hydrogen (auto) - Honda petrol CRV (auto/CVT) - petrol domestic Bongotype (pickup analog) (manual) - diesel domestic Bongotype (pickup analog) (manual) - domestic petrol Hyundai small car (auto) - domestic petrol Kia SUV (auto) - petrol Jaguar (auto) it's wild. My friends and family are spread across everything from hair dressers to architects, so this kind of diversity is unusual to me. My friends in Japan are much more focused, and the it seems to me that the brands are overcommitted to very few sets of fuels, transmissions, and technologies -- even if the form factor and packaging appear different. With the possibility of Honda and Nissan merging among other consolidation in Japanese autos, I feel like this will only continue (saying this as a (slightly dismayed life long Honda owner). The elephant in the room is of course the massive diversity and cost effectiveness of Chinese cars...which are completely unknown and mocked in the U.S., but turn out to be surprisingly decent these days, and are increasingly electrified and are in the process of refinement. A recent trip to Spain and Portugal reminded me that "hey these exist" and a few rides around in Ubers let me see them up close. They'd sell like hot cakes in the U.S. if they were allowed to.
- numpad0 2y agofyi: Honda is Japanese and has no relationships with Hyundai(actually pronounced hyoon-deh in Korean, meaning "modern era"), which weaponized spelling for US recognition long time ago and haven't fixed it.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoThere is no point classifying an EV as Gavin an automatic transmission, you mostly don’t use gears (maybe to go reverse? But you could run the motor backwards). I would be surprised if hydrogen fuel cell cars had transmissions as well.
- p0w3n3d 2y agoEVs are not the future. Change my mind. -- spoiler alert -- Hydrogen fuel cell powered are
- ptman 2y ago(green) hydrogen fuel cells have much worse energy efficiency than batteries. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi...
- jemmyw 2y agoWhy do we have to change your mind? What's special about you? Hydrogen is a pita for infrastructure and car manufacturers have talked about it far longer than the modern EV period yet it still hasn't gone anywhere. It would need a huge push from government and industry. Electricity infrastructure is already there, even if it needs upgrades and extra capacity, it's far easier to add to. EVs are here now and growing, hydrogen is still as limited as ever in most places.
- thebruce87m 2y agoThe future is here and I am already driving an EV. The car park at work is around 15% EVs (and growing) and 0% hydrogen. It is convenient for me to charge at home, moving to hydrogen would require me to visit a refuelling station again - something that costs me time so there would have to be some other benefit. The possible benefit is faster refuelling, but on long journeys my EV can drive for 2-3 hours on a 20 minute charge while I eat which is 0 minutes extra.
- p0w3n3d 2y agoThe amount of resources required to create an EV's battery, battery degradation, politics behind the mining, and importing of such resources, locations of factories whichbuild them, etc. is against it. 15% is because it was subsided and People we being scared by govt that they will disallow their cars from cities. And you're IT professional I guess so you're not the poorest person driving such. Those cars will become unrepairable in a few years. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity-by-region/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufa...
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- MagicMoonlight 2y agoI’ve seen this in-person. It’s pretty nice. I just find the price point too high, because for the price of it you can get a max spec kona which is a few years old.
- tim333 2y agoGood. I've been a bit disappointed by car prices. Most manufactured good get cheaper in real terms and manufacturing advances, like computers, TVs, cameras and the like but they seem to have jacked up car prices in recent years.