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Just piling on here because upvotes are not visible. The one thing you can guarantee is that your good faith is not reciprocated by the university. Get a lawyer

Just piling on here because upvotes are not visible. The one thing you can guarantee is that your good faith is not reciprocated by the university. Get a lawyer. To make it easier: it sounds like you're still registered. University of Washington offers Student Legal Services ( https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ ). Set up a referral with one of them and talk to them. Even if they're employees of the university and don't want to work with you to sue the university itself they may be able to give you good advice about how to proceed.

move-on-by 2y ago
It’s a funny thought, but looks like a nonstarter: > SLS cannot represent a student when the opposing party is another UW-Seattle, Tacoma, or Bothell student or UW entity.
- zeckalpha 2y ago
  They can have a conversation without being representation and should connect OP to someone who can represent them.
  - DannyBee 2y ago
    No they can't have a conversation when they know of a non waivable conflict.
    - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
      Surely they could refer the enquiry to the bar association or something in this jurisdiction. How would the lawyer even know, without conversation, that there was a conflict?
      - creer 2y ago
        > Surely they could refer the enquiry to the bar association or something in this jurisdiction. They might but in many cases wouldn't even do that because they still wouldn't get paid for it. Doesn't matter, you don't need them for that.
        DannyBee 2y ago
        To be fair, in many cases, they can be held responsible for whether you refer people to the right place.
      - DannyBee 2y ago
        They can basically say "i can't speak to you". More than even that is tricky. As for the latter, that's why i said "when they know of a non waivable conflict". Emphasis being "know of". Here, they know they have a conflict - they have a client, it's not this person, and they know their client will be adversarial to this person. They aren't even part of a law firm that represents multiple clients regularly or something like that where sometimes the conflicts might be waivable (often not, but still) This is a very very easy case. If they don't know they have a conflict, sure, they can have a conversation for the purposes of understanding if they have a conflict. That's not this case though!
- j45 2y ago
  An example of the difference between being independent vs third party. Who mostly pays them sets the rules.
  - wl 2y ago
    The entity paying the lawyers isn’t making the rules here. This is professional ethics: the attorneys in question have a conflict of interest.
    - j45 2y ago
      It’s subtler than conflict of interest. Anyone working for students while being paid for by the university (like some ombudsman) might think twice before going too hard after anything in the institution side that they work at, with people, etc. This isn’t to say it should be adversarial, just not endlessly borne back against the currents into being neutralized by bureaucracy and office politics. If it was independently funded..
      - wl 2y ago
        You describe why this is a nonwaivable conflict of interest.
        DannyBee 2y ago
        Precisely
- glaugh 2y ago
  I know very little about lawyering, but I could imagine a UW-alum or Seattle-area lawyer advising pro bono bc of generosity or good publicity on a very newsworthy case Anyone on here friends with a UW-alum or Seattle-area lawyer who might be interested but doesn’t read HN?
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    Do American university students belong to unions? It's very common in the UK. The most visible part of the unions is running social activities, often bars and events, but they can also provide legal advice to their members.
    - LPisGood 2y ago
      Graduate students (who teach, do research, and some administrative tasks for the university) occasionally do. What American schools usually have is a “student government” which is approximately 90% roleplaying as elected officials, and the remaining 10% is deciding which banquets they should host themselves to spend the small budget the university gives them.
    - alistairSH 2y ago
      Not undergraduates. The "student union" in this context is 100% a social entity. Graduate students sometimes are part of unions, but usually only if they're also employed by the university (somebody paying full tuition for an MBA probably isn't in a union, but a doctoral student teaching or doing research might be). Undergrads doing part-time work at the university to pay bills (dining hall, bookstore, etc) could be, in theory, but probably aren't.
    - kelloggm 2y ago
      Even if this student isn't a member, the local graduate student union (https://www.uaw4121.org/ https://www.uaw4121.org/) would probably be a useful ally. All TAs are in the bargaining unit, and UW CSE has _a lot_ of undergrad TAs, so I wouldn't even be surprised if this student is a present (or former) member.
tokinonagare 2y ago
Upvoting too. > Unless, that is, I agree to work on a comparable solution for the university focused on solving the underlying problem I was building HuskySwap for. They would presumably own the IP and were clear that I wouldn’t be compensated. But it was implied that they would then remove the hold, allowing me to graduate. Wow. Literally blackmailing a student to do illegal work (at least would be categorized like that in my country). A student that already paid money for class and potentially a degree the univ is trying to block, mind blowing. OP, 1000% lawyer up.
- ra 2y ago
  Relying on good faith won't help you at all. Someone at the uni has taken this personally, and has attacked you. At this point, if you don't defend yourself - that person has won. Please seek legal advice.
  - phibz 2y ago
    Their response on face value doesn't make sense. But if I had to guess, you inadvertently made someone in the registrar's office look bad. They probably had to answer to "why didn't you think of this?" If that is the case then it makes a lot more sense and is retaliatory behavior. You can't undo their insecurity and loss of face. Therefore you should not expect a reasonable response. Act accordingly. Educate yourself on your options. This is why people are recommending a consultation with a lawyer. Reach out to your friends and contacts in the University. Leverage existing ones to make new ones. Others may be in a stronger position to put pressure on the registrar's office. Use the news and media to further ratchet up pressure. Stay positive. Fon't stoop to their level, it won't help you. And if you have to walk away it won't hurt you too much in the long term. After about 5 years in industry nearly all companies stop caring about credentials. Just get your foot in the door somewhere and shine, that's what I did and it worked out for me 26 years later. Hang in there.
    - colanderman 2y ago
      Seconding this. It's entirely likely the registrar is this petty and boneheaded. It's less likely that their boss is though, this is a really bad look for the university. Personally I would find a way to contact the president of the university (possibly through university PR, who also care about public image) and simply state, "The registrar is asking me for quid pro quo, that I develop software for them in exchange to restore my ability to register for classes." and include a screenshot of that communication. Additionally, consider "agreeing" to their demands, if they will unblock you immediately. Register for classes, then reneg on your half of the "deal". Even if they then retaliate, that strengthens your position (a) that they are engaging in quid pro quo, and (b) that there's no valid reason that you should be barred from registering for courses, and also buys you some time.
brailsafe 2y ago
Also worth noting that it would be incredibly naive to expect good faith to be reciprocated by any institution at all throughout the course of one's life, which sounds cynical, but lets be real. If there's a way that almost any institution or person that you're transacting with in good faith—including schools, workplaces, lawyers, medical professionals, the leader of your country, sometimes family, whatever—can get away with fucking you over, they might. Not always, but expect it. Which reminds me, I need to pester a doctor about a web design invoice.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  > If there's a way that almost any institution or person that you're transacting with in good faith [...] can get away with fucking you over, they might. Not always, but expect it. This. Always protect yourself, even when operating in good faith. You may only interact with someone professionally, but you never know what kind of person you are really working with. Sometimes people may seem nice, but are pure evil. In this particular case, it is likely the people in charge are completely unaware of the people doing the blackmailing. This may even be criminal, so it might be worth just talking to the police.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    Yep, they'll walk all over whoever they can, until they receive just enough bad publicity or pushback, and suddenly it's not an issue anymore.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    > You may only interact with someone professionally, but you never know what kind of person you are really working with. Sometimes people may seem nice, but are pure evil. It's not even always a case of being evil. Large institutions/companies are full of polices and processes designed to protect the system at all costs and some nice people will turn their brain off and strictly follow those policies either because they feel they have to, because it's the easiest thing to do, or because they know that as long as they stick to the policies (or what they think the policies are) they'll be safe.
firefax 2y ago
Student legal services usually can't help you with disputes with the uni -- I remember reading this when speaking to them about a (unfair IMO) traffic ticket when I was a student at a different institution.
y33t 2y ago
Joining the dogpile to get a lawyer. Your degree is at stake, and this isn't the sort of issue that will burn up your money if you don't want it to. Go in for a consultation and see what they think. Bring all correspondence. Worst case scenario you pay him for a few hours after he has some answers for you. An attorney kept me from making some very expensive (honest) mistakes and payed for himself many times over. Don't gamble with your future.
zzzeek 2y ago
cosign, this story is outrageous, it is Lawyer Time, Now. The university is completely out of line and this has all the makings of a disastrous outcome the way they are operating
mmooss 2y ago
> University of Washington offers Student Legal Services ( https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ ). Do not talk to them. They report to the same people who are persecuting you. Find another attorney - ask someone local for references, maybe a student from the area could ask their parents.

move-on-by 2y ago

It’s a funny thought, but looks like a nonstarter: > SLS cannot represent a student when the opposing party is another UW-Seattle, Tacoma, or Bothell student or UW entity.

zeckalpha 2y ago
They can have a conversation without being representation and should connect OP to someone who can represent them.
- DannyBee 2y ago
  No they can't have a conversation when they know of a non waivable conflict.
  - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
    Surely they could refer the enquiry to the bar association or something in this jurisdiction. How would the lawyer even know, without conversation, that there was a conflict?
    - creer 2y ago
      > Surely they could refer the enquiry to the bar association or something in this jurisdiction. They might but in many cases wouldn't even do that because they still wouldn't get paid for it. Doesn't matter, you don't need them for that.
      - DannyBee 2y ago
        To be fair, in many cases, they can be held responsible for whether you refer people to the right place.
    - DannyBee 2y ago
      They can basically say "i can't speak to you". More than even that is tricky. As for the latter, that's why i said "when they know of a non waivable conflict". Emphasis being "know of". Here, they know they have a conflict - they have a client, it's not this person, and they know their client will be adversarial to this person. They aren't even part of a law firm that represents multiple clients regularly or something like that where sometimes the conflicts might be waivable (often not, but still) This is a very very easy case. If they don't know they have a conflict, sure, they can have a conversation for the purposes of understanding if they have a conflict. That's not this case though!
j45 2y ago
An example of the difference between being independent vs third party. Who mostly pays them sets the rules.
- wl 2y ago
  The entity paying the lawyers isn’t making the rules here. This is professional ethics: the attorneys in question have a conflict of interest.
  - j45 2y ago
    It’s subtler than conflict of interest. Anyone working for students while being paid for by the university (like some ombudsman) might think twice before going too hard after anything in the institution side that they work at, with people, etc. This isn’t to say it should be adversarial, just not endlessly borne back against the currents into being neutralized by bureaucracy and office politics. If it was independently funded..
    - wl 2y ago
      You describe why this is a nonwaivable conflict of interest.
      - DannyBee 2y ago
        Precisely
glaugh 2y ago
I know very little about lawyering, but I could imagine a UW-alum or Seattle-area lawyer advising pro bono bc of generosity or good publicity on a very newsworthy case Anyone on here friends with a UW-alum or Seattle-area lawyer who might be interested but doesn’t read HN?
- Symbiote 2y ago
  Do American university students belong to unions? It's very common in the UK. The most visible part of the unions is running social activities, often bars and events, but they can also provide legal advice to their members.
  - LPisGood 2y ago
    Graduate students (who teach, do research, and some administrative tasks for the university) occasionally do. What American schools usually have is a “student government” which is approximately 90% roleplaying as elected officials, and the remaining 10% is deciding which banquets they should host themselves to spend the small budget the university gives them.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    Not undergraduates. The "student union" in this context is 100% a social entity. Graduate students sometimes are part of unions, but usually only if they're also employed by the university (somebody paying full tuition for an MBA probably isn't in a union, but a doctoral student teaching or doing research might be). Undergrads doing part-time work at the university to pay bills (dining hall, bookstore, etc) could be, in theory, but probably aren't.
  - kelloggm 2y ago
    Even if this student isn't a member, the local graduate student union (https://www.uaw4121.org/ https://www.uaw4121.org/) would probably be a useful ally. All TAs are in the bargaining unit, and UW CSE has _a lot_ of undergrad TAs, so I wouldn't even be surprised if this student is a present (or former) member.

tokinonagare 2y ago

Upvoting too. > Unless, that is, I agree to work on a comparable solution for the university focused on solving the underlying problem I was building HuskySwap for. They would presumably own the IP and were clear that I wouldn’t be compensated. But it was implied that they would then remove the hold, allowing me to graduate. Wow. Literally blackmailing a student to do illegal work (at least would be categorized like that in my country). A student that already paid money for class and potentially a degree the univ is trying to block, mind blowing. OP, 1000% lawyer up.

ra 2y ago
Relying on good faith won't help you at all. Someone at the uni has taken this personally, and has attacked you. At this point, if you don't defend yourself - that person has won. Please seek legal advice.
- phibz 2y ago
  Their response on face value doesn't make sense. But if I had to guess, you inadvertently made someone in the registrar's office look bad. They probably had to answer to "why didn't you think of this?" If that is the case then it makes a lot more sense and is retaliatory behavior. You can't undo their insecurity and loss of face. Therefore you should not expect a reasonable response. Act accordingly. Educate yourself on your options. This is why people are recommending a consultation with a lawyer. Reach out to your friends and contacts in the University. Leverage existing ones to make new ones. Others may be in a stronger position to put pressure on the registrar's office. Use the news and media to further ratchet up pressure. Stay positive. Fon't stoop to their level, it won't help you. And if you have to walk away it won't hurt you too much in the long term. After about 5 years in industry nearly all companies stop caring about credentials. Just get your foot in the door somewhere and shine, that's what I did and it worked out for me 26 years later. Hang in there.
  - colanderman 2y ago
    Seconding this. It's entirely likely the registrar is this petty and boneheaded. It's less likely that their boss is though, this is a really bad look for the university. Personally I would find a way to contact the president of the university (possibly through university PR, who also care about public image) and simply state, "The registrar is asking me for quid pro quo, that I develop software for them in exchange to restore my ability to register for classes." and include a screenshot of that communication. Additionally, consider "agreeing" to their demands, if they will unblock you immediately. Register for classes, then reneg on your half of the "deal". Even if they then retaliate, that strengthens your position (a) that they are engaging in quid pro quo, and (b) that there's no valid reason that you should be barred from registering for courses, and also buys you some time.

brailsafe 2y ago

Also worth noting that it would be incredibly naive to expect good faith to be reciprocated by any institution at all throughout the course of one's life, which sounds cynical, but lets be real. If there's a way that almost any institution or person that you're transacting with in good faith—including schools, workplaces, lawyers, medical professionals, the leader of your country, sometimes family, whatever—can get away with fucking you over, they might. Not always, but expect it. Which reminds me, I need to pester a doctor about a web design invoice.

withinboredom 2y ago
> If there's a way that almost any institution or person that you're transacting with in good faith [...] can get away with fucking you over, they might. Not always, but expect it. This. Always protect yourself, even when operating in good faith. You may only interact with someone professionally, but you never know what kind of person you are really working with. Sometimes people may seem nice, but are pure evil. In this particular case, it is likely the people in charge are completely unaware of the people doing the blackmailing. This may even be criminal, so it might be worth just talking to the police.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  Yep, they'll walk all over whoever they can, until they receive just enough bad publicity or pushback, and suddenly it's not an issue anymore.
- autoexec 2y ago
  > You may only interact with someone professionally, but you never know what kind of person you are really working with. Sometimes people may seem nice, but are pure evil. It's not even always a case of being evil. Large institutions/companies are full of polices and processes designed to protect the system at all costs and some nice people will turn their brain off and strictly follow those policies either because they feel they have to, because it's the easiest thing to do, or because they know that as long as they stick to the policies (or what they think the policies are) they'll be safe.

firefax 2y ago

Student legal services usually can't help you with disputes with the uni -- I remember reading this when speaking to them about a (unfair IMO) traffic ticket when I was a student at a different institution.

y33t 2y ago

Joining the dogpile to get a lawyer. Your degree is at stake, and this isn't the sort of issue that will burn up your money if you don't want it to. Go in for a consultation and see what they think. Bring all correspondence. Worst case scenario you pay him for a few hours after he has some answers for you. An attorney kept me from making some very expensive (honest) mistakes and payed for himself many times over. Don't gamble with your future.

zzzeek 2y ago

cosign, this story is outrageous, it is Lawyer Time, Now. The university is completely out of line and this has all the makings of a disastrous outcome the way they are operating

mmooss 2y ago

> University of Washington offers Student Legal Services ( https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ ). Do not talk to them. They report to the same people who are persecuting you. Find another attorney - ask someone local for references, maybe a student from the area could ask their parents.