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Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs
- derelicta 2y agoFinally I will be able to run Cities Skylines 2 at 60fps!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoOfficial release: https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-blackwell-geforce-rtx-50-series-opens-new-world-of-ai-computer-graphics https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-blackwell-geforce-... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42618849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42618849)
- ryao 2y agoThis thread was posted first.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jsheard 2y ago32GB of GDDR7 at 1.8TB/sec for $2000, best of luck to the gamers trying to buy one of those while AI people are buying them by the truckload. Presumably the pro hardware based on the same silicon will have 64GB, they usually double whatever the gaming cards have.
- codespin 2y agoAt what point do we stop calling them graphics cards?
- avaer 2y agoAt what point did we stop calling them phones?
- Whatarethese 2y agoCompute cards, AI Cards, or Business Cards. I like business cards, I'm going to stick with that one. Dibs.
- stackghost 2y agoLet's see Paul Allen's GPU.
- benreesman 2y agoOh my god. It even has a low mantissa FMA.
- blitzar 2y agoThe tasteful thickness of it.
- aaronmdjones 2y agoNice.
- Yizahi 2y agoBusiness Cards is an awesome naming :)
- paxys 2y agoNvidia literally markets H100 as a "GPU" (https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/) even though it wasn't built for graphics and I doubt there's a single person or company using one to render any kind of graphics. GPU is just a recognizable term for the product category, and will keep being used.
- ryao 2y agoDo they double it via dual rank or clamshell mode? It is not clear which approach they use.
- wruza 2y agoWhy do you need one of those as a gamer? 1080ti was 120+ fps in heavy realistic looking games. 20xx RT slashed that back to 15 fps, but is RT really necessary to play games? Who cares about real-world reflections? And reviews showed that RT+DLSS introduced so many artefacts sometimes that the realism argument seemed absurd. Any modern card under $1000 is more than enough for graphics in virtually all games. The gaming crisis is not in a graphics card market at all.
- rane 2y ago1080ti is most definitely not powerful enough to play modern games at 4k 120hz.
- bowsamic 2y ago> is RT really necessary to play games? Who cares about real-world reflections? I barely play video games but I definitely do
- Vampiero 2y agoIndeed you're not a gamer, but you're the target audience for gaming advertisements and $2000 GPUs. I still play traditional roguelikes from the 80s (and their modern counterparts) and I'm a passionate gamer. I don't need a fancy GPU to enjoy the masterpieces. Because at the end of the day nowhere in the definition of "game" is there a requirement for realistic graphics -- and what passes off as realistic changes from decade to decade anyway. A game is about gameplay, and you can have great gameplay with barely any graphics at all. I'd leave raytracing to those who like messing with GLSL on shadertoy; now people like me have 0 options if they want a good budget card that just has good raster performance and no AI/RTX bullshit. And ON TOP OF THAT, every game engine has turned to utter shit in the last 5-10 years. Awful performance, awful graphics, forced sub-100% resolution... And in order to get anything that doesn't look like shit and runs at a passable framerate, you need to enable DLSS. Great
- bowsamic 2y agoI play roguelikes too
- Hilift 2y ago100% you will be able to buy them. And receive a rock in the package from Amazon.
- malnourish 2y agoI will be astonished if I'll be able to get a 5090 due to availability. The 5080's comparative lack of memory is a buzzkill -- 16 GB seems like it's going to be a limiting factor for 4k gaming. Does anyone know what these might cost in the US after the rumored tariffs?
- ericfrederich 2y ago4k gaming is dumb. I watched a LTT video that came out today where Linus said he primarily uses gaming monitors and doesn't mess with 4k.
- Our_Benefactors 2y agoThere are good 4K gaming monitors, but they start at over $1200 and if you don't also have a 4090 tier rig, you won’t be able to get full FPS out of AAA games at 4k.
- archagon 2y agoI still have a 3080 and game at 4K/120Hz. Most AAA games that I try can pull 60-90Hz at ~4K if DLSS is available.
- valzam 2y agoMost numbers people are touting are from "Ultra everything benchmarks", lowering the settings + DLLS makes 4k perfectly playable.
- archagon 2y agoI've seen analysis showing that DLSS might actually yield a higher quality image than barebones for the same graphics settings owing to the additional data provided by motion vectors. This plus the 2x speedup makes it a no brainer in my book.
- out_of_protocol 2y ago
- glimshe 2y agoLet's see the new version of frame generation. I enabled DLSS frame generation on Diablo 4 using my 4060 and I was very disappointed with the results. Graphical glitches and partial flickering made the game a lot less enjoyable than good old 60fps with vsync.
- ziml77 2y agoThe new DLSS 4 framegen really needs to be much better than what's there in DLSS 3. Otherwise the 5070 = 4090 comparison won't just be very misleading but flatly a lie.
- sliken 2y agoSeems like pretty heavily stretched truth. Looks like the actual performance uplift is more like 30%. The 5070=4090 comes from generating multiple fake frames per actual frame and using different versions of DLSS on the cards. Multiple frame generation (required for 5070=4090) increases latency between user input and updated pixels and can also cause artifacts when predictions don't match what the game engine would display. As always wait for fairer 3rd party reviews that will compare new gen cards to old gen with the same settings.
- jakemoshenko 2y ago> Multiple frame generation (required for 5070=4090) increases latency between user input and updated pixels Not necessarily. Look at the reprojection trick that lots of VR uses to double framerates with the express purpose of decreasing latency between user movements and updated perspective. Caveat: this only works for movements and wouldn't work for actions.
- evantbyrne 2y agoThe main edge Nvidia has in gaming is ray tracing performance. I'm not playing any RT heavy titles and frame gen being a mixed bag is why I saved my coin and got a 7900 XTX.
- roskelld 2y ago
- lostmsu 2y agoDid they discontinue Titan series for good?
- greenknight 2y agoLast titan was released 2018.... 7 years ago. They may resurrect it at some stage, but at this stage yes.
- coffeebeqn 2y agoYes the xx90 is the new Titan
- ryao 2y agoThe 3090, 3090 Ti, 4090 and 5090 are Titan series cards. They are just no longer labelled Titan.
- smcleod 2y agoIt's a shame to see they max out at just 32GB, for that price in 2025 you'd be hoping for a lot more, especially with Apple Silicon - while not nearly as fast - being very usable with 128GB+ for LLMs for $6-7k USD (comes with a free laptop too ;))
- ryao 2y agoPresumably the workstation version will have 64GB of VRAM. By the way, this is even better as far as memory size is concerned: https://www.asrockrack.com/minisite/AmpereAltraFamily/ https://www.asrockrack.com/minisite/AmpereAltraFamily/ However, memory bandwidth is what matters for token generation. The memory bandwidth of this is only 204.8GB/sec if I understand correctly. Apple's top level hardware reportedly does 800GB/sec.
- lostmsu 2y agoAll of this is true only while no software is utilizing parallel inference of multiple LLM queries. The Macs will hit the wall.
- sliken 2y agoAMD Strix Halo is 256GB/sec or so. Similarly AMD's Epyc Sienna family is similar. The EPYC turin family (zen 5) has 576GB/sec or so per socket. Not sure how well any of them do on LLMs. Bandwidth helps, but so does hardware support for FP8 or FP4.
- PaulKeeble 2y agoLooks like most of the improvement is only going to come when DLSS4 is in use and its generating most of the frame for Ray Tracing and then also generating 3 predicted frames. When you use all that AI hardware then its maybe 2x, but I do wonder how much fundamental rasterisation + shaders performance gain there is in this generation in practice on the majority of actual games.
- DimmieMan 2y agoYeah I’m not holding my breath if they aren’t advertising it. I’m expecting a minor bump that will look less impressive if you compare it to watts, these things are hungry. It’s hard to get excited when most of the gains will be limited to a few new showcase AAA releases and maybe an update to a couple of your favourites if your lucky.
- coffeebeqn 2y agoIt feels like GPUs are now well beyond what game studios can put out. Consoles are stuck at something like RTX 2070 levels for some years still. I hope Nvidia puts out some budget cards for 50 series
- DimmieMan 2y agoAt the same time they’re still behind demand as most of the pretty advertising screenshots and frame rate bragging have been behind increasingly aggressive upscaling. On pc you can turn down the fancy settings at least but For consoles I wonder if we’re now in the smudgy upscale era like overdone bloom or everything being brown.
- jroesch 2y agoThere was some solid commentary on the Ps5Pro tech talk stating core rendering is so well optimized much of the gains in the future will come from hardware process technology improvements not from radical architecture changes. It seems clear the future of rendering is likely to be a world where the gains come from things like dlss and less and free lunch savings due to easy optimizations.
- paxys 2y agoEven though they are all marketed as gaming cards, Nvidia is now very clearly differentiating between 5070/5070 Ti/5080 for mid-high end gaming and 5090 for consumer/entry-level AI. The gap between xx80 and xx90 is going to be too wide for regular gamers to cross this generation.
- kcb 2y agoYup, the days of the value high end card are dead it seems like. I thought we would see a cut down 4090 at some point last generation but it never happened. Surely there's a market gap somewhere between 5090 and 5080.
- smallmancontrov 2y agoYes, but Nvidia thinks enough of them get pushed up to the 5090 to make the gap worthwhile. Only way to fix this is for AMD to decide it likes money. I'm not holding my breath.
- kaibee 2y agoDon't necessarily count Intel out.
- romon 2y agoIntel is halting its construction of new factories and mulling over whether to break up the company...
- User23 2y agoIntel's Board is going full Kodak.
- 63 2y agoI wouldn't count Intel out in the long term, but it'll take quite a few generations for them to catch up and who knows what the market will be like by then
- m3kw9 2y agoYou also need to upgrade your air conditioner
- lingonland 2y agoOr just open a window, depending on where you live
- polski-g 2y agoYeah I'm not really sure what the solution is at this point. Put it in my basement and run 50foot HDMI cables through my house or something...
- nullc 2y agoWay too little memory. :(
- ksec 2y agoAnyone has any info on Node? Can't find anything online. Seems to be 4nm but performance suggest otherwise. Hopefully someone do a deep dive soon.
- kcb 2y agoGood bet it's 4nm. The 5090 doesn't seem that much greater than the 4090 in terms of raw performance. And it has a big TDP bump to provide that performance.
- wmf 2y agoI'm guessing it's N4 and the performance is coming from larger dies and higher power.
- rldjbpin 2y agoTSMC 4NP process Source: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/technologies/blackwell-architecture/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/technologies/blackw...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- biglost 2y agoMmm i think my wallet Is safe since i only play SNES and old dos games.
- jmyeet 2y agoThe interesting part to me was that Nvidia claim the new 5070 will have 4090 level performance for a much lower price ($549). Less memory however. If that holds up in the benchmarks, this is a nice jump for a generation. I agree with others that more memory would've been nice, but it's clear Nvidia are trying to segment their SKUs into AI and non-AI models and using RAM to do it. That might not be such a bad outcome if it means gamers can actually buy GPUs without them being instantly bought by robots like the peak crypto mining era.
- dagmx 2y agoThat claim is with a heavy asterisk of using DLSS4. Without DLSS4, it’s looking to be a 1.2-1.3x jump over the 4070.
- knallfrosch 2y agoDo games need to implement something on their side to get DLSS4?
- Vampiero 2y agoOn the contrary, they need to be optimized so badly that they run like shit on 2025 graphics cards despite looking the exact same as games from years ago
- Macha 2y agoThe asterisk is DLSS4 is using AI to generate extra frames, rather than rendering extra frames, which hurts image stability and leads to annoying fuzziness/flickering. So it's not comparing like with like. Also since they're not coming from the game engine, they don't actually react as the game would, so they don't have advantages in terms of response times that actual frame rate does.
- popcalc 2y agoWas surprised to relearn the GTX 980 premiered at $549 a decade ago.
- nottorp 2y agoDo they come with a mini nuclear reactor to power them?
- jms55 2y ago* MegaGeometry (APIs to allow Nanite-like systems for raytracing) - super awesome, I'm super super excited to add this to my existing Nanite-like system, finally allows RT lighting with high density geometry * Neural texture stuff - also super exciting, big advancement in rendering, I see this being used a lot (and helps to make up for the meh vram blackwell has) * Neural material stuff - might be neat, Unreal strata materials will like this, but going to be a while until it gets a good amount of adoption * Neural shader stuff in general - who knows, we'll see how it pans out * DLSS upscaling/denoising improvements (all GPUs) - Great! More stable upscaling and denoising is very much welcome * DLSS framegen and reflex improvements - bleh, ok I guess, reflex especially is going to be very niche * Hardware itself - lower end a lot cheaper than I expected! Memory bandwidth and VRAM is meh, but the perf itself seems good, newer cores, better SER, good stuff for the most part! Note that the material/texture/BVH/denoising stuff is all research papers nvidia and others have put out over the last few years, just finally getting production-ized. Neural textures and nanite-like RT is stuff I've been hyped for the past ~2 years. I'm very tempted to upgrade my 3080 (that I bought used for $600 ~2 years ago) to a 5070 ti.
- magicalhippo 2y agoFor gaming I'm also looking forward to the improved AI workload sharing mentioned, where, IIUC, AI and graphics workloads could operate at the same time. I'm hoping generative AI models can be used to generate more immersive NPCs.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- friedtofu 2y agoAs a lifelong nvidia consumer, I think it's a safe bet to ride out the first wave of 5xxx series GPUs and wait for the inevitable 5080/5070 (GT/Ti/Super/whatever) that should release a few months after with similar specs and better performance based on whatever the complaints surrounding the initial GPUs lacked. I would expect something like the 5080 super will have something like 20/24Gb of VRAM. 16Gb just seems wrong for their "target" consumer GPU.
- ryao 2y agoThey could have used 32Gbps GDDR7 to push memory bandwidth on the 5090 to 2.0TB/sec. Instead, they left some performance on the table. I wonder if they have some compute cores disabled too. They are likely leaving room for a 5090 Ti follow-up.
- nsteel 2y agoMaybe they wanted some thermal/power headroom. It's already pretty mad.
- arvinsim 2y agoI made the mistake of not waiting befpre. This time around, I will save for the 5090 or just wait for the Ti/Super refreshes.
- knallfrosch 2y agoOr you wait out the 5000 Super too and get the 6000 series that fixes all the first-gen 5000-Super problems...
- valzam 2y agoA few months? Didn't the 4080 Super release at least a few years after the 4080?
- ryao 2y agoThe most interesting news is that the 5090 Founders' Edition is a 2-slot card according to Nvidia's website: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/50-series/rtx-5090/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/50-serie... When was the last time Nvidia made a high end GeForce card use only 2 slots?
- archagon 2y agoFantastic news for the SFF community. (Looks like Nvidia even advertises an "SFF-Ready" label for cards that are small enough: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/small-form-factor-sff-ready https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/small-form-factor-...)
- sliken 2y agoNot really, 575 watts for the GPU is going to make it tough to cool or provide power for.
- archagon 2y agoThere are 1000W SFX-L (and probably SFX) PSUs out there, and console-style cases provide basically perfect cooling through the sides. The limiting factor really is slot width. (But I'm more eyeing the 5080, since 360W is pretty easy to power and cool for most SFF setups.)
- kllrnohj 2y agoIt's a dual flow-through design, so some SFF cases will work OK but the typical sandwich style ones probably won't even though it'll physically fit
- _boffin_ 2y agoDonno why I feel this, but probably going to end up being 2.5 slots
- matja 2y agoThe integrator decides the form factor, not NVIDIA, and there were a few 2-slot 3080's with blower coolers. Technically water-cooled 40xx's can be 2-slot also but that's cheating.
- knallfrosch 2y agoSmaller cards with higher power consumption – will GPU water-cooling be cool again?
- sub7 2y agoWould have been nice to get double the memory on the 5090 to run those giant models locally. Would've probably upgraded at 64gb but the jump from 24 to 32gb isn't big enough Gaming performance has been plateaued for some time now, maybe an 8k monitor wave can revive things
- lxdlam 2y agoI have a serious question about the term "AI TOPS". I find many conflicting definitions while others say nothing. A meaningful metric should at least be well defined on its own term, like in "TOPS" or expanded "Tera Operations Per Second", what operation it will measure? Seemingly NVIDIA is just playing number games, like wow 3352 is a huge leap compared to 1321 right? But how does it really help us in LLMs, diffusion models and so on?
- diggan 2y agoIt would be cool if something like vast.ai's "DLPerf" would become popular enough for the hardware producers to start using it too. > DLPerf (Deep Learning Performance) - is our own scoring function. It is an approximate estimate of performance for typical deep learning tasks. Currently, DLPerf predicts performance well in terms of iters/second for a few common tasks such as training ResNet50 CNNs. For example, on these tasks, a V100 instance with a DLPerf score of 21 is roughly ~2x faster than a 1080Ti with a DLPerf of 10. [...] Although far from perfect, DLPerf is more useful for predicting performance than TFLops for most tasks. https://vast.ai/faq#dlperf https://vast.ai/faq#dlperf
- az226 2y agoWe don’t need this. We can easily unpack Nvidia’s marketing bullshit. 5090 is 26% higher flops than 4090, at 28% higher power draw, and 25% higher price.
- az226 2y agoThe 5090 TOPS number is with sparsity at 4bits, so it doubles the value compared to the 8bit sparse number for 4090. The real jump is 26%, at 28% higher power draw and 25% higher price. A dud indeed.
- lxdlam 2y agoIt really sucks. BTW, how did you find the statement? I cannot find it in any place.
- thefz 2y ago> GeForce RTX 5070 Ti: 2X Faster Than The GeForce RTX 4070 Ti 2x faster in DLSS. If we look at the 1:1 resolution performance, the increase is likely 1.2x.
- alkonaut 2y agoThat's what I'm wondering. What's the actual raw render/compute difference in performance, if we take a game that predates DLSS?
- thefz 2y agoWe shall wait for real world benchmarks to address the raster performance increase. The bold claim "5070 is like a 4090 at 549$" is quite different if we factor in that it's basically in DLSS only.
- kllrnohj 2y agoit's actually a lot worse than it sounds even. The 5070 is like a 4090 is when the 5070 has multi frame generation on and the 4090 doesn't. So it's not even comparable levels of DLSS, the 5070 is hallucinating 2x+ more frames than the 4090 is in that claim
- izacus 2y agoBased on non-DLSS tests, it seems like a respectable ~25%.
- vizzier 2y agoRespectable outright, but 450W -> 575W TDP takes the edge off a bit. We'll have to see how that translates to at the wall. My room already gets far too hot with a 320W 3080.
- reactcore 2y agoGPU stands for graphics prediction unit these days
- christkv 2y ago575W TDP for the 5090. A buddy has 3x 4090 in a machine with a 32 core AMD cpu must be putting out close to 2000W of heat at peak if he switched to 5090. Uff
- aurbano 2y ago2kW is literally the output of my patio heater haha
- buildbot 2y agoThey work as effective heaters! I haven’t used my (electric) heat all winter, I just use my training computer’s waste heat instead.
- buildbot 2y agoI have a very similar setup, 3x4090s. Depending on the model I’m training, the GPUs use anywhere from 100-400 watts, but don’t get much slower when power limited to say, 250w. So they could power limit the 5090s if they want and get pretty decent performance most likely. The cat loves laying/basking on it when it’s putting out 1400w in 400w mode though, so I leave it turned up most of the time! (200w for the cpu)
- jiggawatts 2y agoMay I ask what you’re training? And why not just rent GPUs in some cloud?
- buildbot 2y agoAccording to Weights & Biases, my personal, not work related account was in the top 5% of users, and I trained models for a total of nearly 5000 hours - so if I rented equivalent compute to this machine, I’d probably be out 5-10k so far - so this machine is very close to paying for itself if it already hasn’t. Also, not having to do the environment setup typically required for cloud stuff is a nice bonus.
- blixt 2y agoPretty interesting watching their tech explainers on YouTube about the changes in their AI solutions. Apparently they switched from CNNs to transformers for upscaling (with ray tracing support) if I understood correctly though for frame generation makes even more sense to me. 32 GB VRAM on the highest end GPU seems almost small after running LLMs with 128 GB RAM on the M3 Max, but the speed will most likely more than make up for it. I do wonder when we’ll see bigger jumps in VRAM though, now that the need for running multiple AI models at once seems like a realistic use case (their tech explainers also mentions they already do this for games).
- bick_nyers 2y agoCheck out their project digits announcement, 128GB unified memory with infiniband capabilities for $3k. For more of the fast VRAM you would be in Quadro territory.
- terhechte 2y agoIf you have 128gb ram, try running MoE models, they're a far better fit for Apple's hardware because they trade memory for inference performance. using something like Wizard2 8x22b requires a huge amount of memory to host the 176b model, but only one 22b slice has to be active at a time so you get the token speed of a 22b model.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y agoProject Digits... https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/project-digits/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/project-digits/
- throwaway48476 2y agoI guess they're tired of people buying macs for AI.
- cma 2y agoYou can also run the experts on separate machines with low bandwidth networking or even the internet (token rate limited by RTT)
- lemoncookiechip 2y agoI have a feeling regular consumers will have trouble buying 5090s. RTX 5090: 32 GB GDDR7, ~1.8 TB/s bandwidth. H100 (SXM5): 80 GB HBM3, ~3+ TB/s bandwidth. RTX 5090: ~318 TFLOPS in ray tracing, ~3,352 AI TOPS. H100: Optimized for matrix and tensor computations, with ~1,000 TFLOPS for AI workloads (using Tensor Cores). RTX 5090: 575W, higher for enthusiast-class performance. H100 (PCIe): 350W, efficient for data centers. RTX 5090: Expected MSRP ~$2,000 (consumer pricing). H100: Pricing starts at ~$15,000–$30,000+ per unit.
- topherjaynes 2y agoThat's my worry too, I'd like one or two, but 1) will either never be in line for them 2) or can only find via secondary market at 3 or 4x the price...
- boroboro4 2y agoH100 has 3958 TFLOPS sparse fp8 compute. I’m pretty sure listed tflops for 5090 are sparse (and probably) fp4/int4.
- rfoo 2y agoYes, that's the case. Check the (partial) spec of 5090 D, which is the nerfed version for export to China. It is marketed as having 2375 "AI TOPS". BIS demands it to be less than $4800 TOPS \times Bit-Width$, and the most plausible explanation for the number is - 2375 sparse fp4/int4 TOPS, which means 1187.5 dense TOPS for 4 bit, or $4750 TOPS \times Bit-Width$.
- boroboro4 2y agoAnd just for the context RTX 4090 has 2642 sparse int4 TOPS, so it’s about 25% increase
- bee_rider 2y agoHow well do these models do at parallelizing across multiple GPUs? Is spending $4k on the 5090 a good idea for training, slightly better performance for much cheaper? Or a bad idea, 0x as good performance because you can’t fit your 60GB model on the thing?
- geertj 2y agoAny advice on how to buy the founders edition when it launches, possibly from folks who bought the 4090 FE last time around? I have a feeling there will be a lot of demand.
- logicalfails 2y agoGetting a 3080 FE (I also had the option to get the 3090 FE) at the height of pandemic demand required me sleeping outside a Best Buy with 50 other random souls on a wednesday night.
- steelframe 2y agoAt that time I ended up just buying a gaming PC packaged with the card. I find it's generally worth it to upgrade all the components of the system along with the GPU every 3 years or so.
- Wololooo 2y agoThis goes at a significant premium for on average OEM parts that are subpar. Buying individually yields much better results and these days it's less of a hassle than it used to.
- rtkwe 2y agoIt was likely from an integrator not a huge OEM that's spinning their own proprietary motherboard designs like Dell. In that case they only really paid the integrator's margin and lost the choice of their own parts.
- jmuguy 2y agoDo you live somewhat near a Microcenter? They'll likely have these as in-store pick up only, no online reservations, 1 per customer. Recently got a 9800X3D CPU from them, its nice they're trying to prevent scalping.
- 2y ago
- ks2048 2y agoThis is maybe a dumb question, but why is it so hard to buy Nvidia GPUs? I can understand lack of supply, but why can't I go on nvidia.com and buy something the same way I go on apple.com and buy hardware? I'm looking for GPUs and navigating all these different resellers with wildly different prices and confusing names (on top of the already confusing set of available cards).
- datadrivenangel 2y agoNvidia uses resellers as distributors. Helps build out a locked in ecosystem.
- ks2048 2y agoHow does that help "build out a locked in ecosystem"? Again, comparing to Apple: they have a very locked-in ecosystem.
- MoreMoore 2y agoI don't think lock-in is the reason. The reason is more that companies like Asus and MSI have a global presence and their products are available on store shelves everywhere. NVIDIA avoids having to deal with building up all the required relationships and distribution, they also save on things like technical support staff and dealing with warranty claims directly with customers across the globe. The handful of people who get an FE card aside.
- santoshalper 2y agoNvidia probably could sell cards directly now, given the strength of their reputation (and the reality backing it up) for graphics, crypto, and AI. However, they grew up as a company that sold through manufacturing and channel partners and that's pretty deeply engrained in their culture. Apple is unusually obsessed with integration, most companies are more like Nvidia.
- pragmar 2y agoApple locks users in with software/services. nVidia locks in add-in board manufacturers with exclusive arrangements and partner programs that tie access to chips to contracts that prioritize nVidia. It happens upstream of the consumer. It's always a matter of degree with this stuff as to where it becomes anti-trust, but in this case it's overt enough for governments to take notice.
- voidUpdate 2y agoOoo, that means its probably time for me to get a used 2080, or maybe even a 3080 if I'm feeling special
- Kelteseth 2y agoWhy not go for AMD? I just got a 7900XTX for 850 euros, it runs ollama or comfyUI via WSl2 quite nicely.
- whywhywhywhy 2y agoPointless putting yourself through the support headaches or having to wait for support to arrive to save a few dollars because the rest of the community is running Nvidia
- Kelteseth 2y agoNah it's quite easy these days. Ollama runs perfectly fine on Windows, comfyUI still has some not ported requirements, so you have to do stuff through WSL2.
- viraj_shah 2y agoDo you have a good resource for learning what kinds of hardware can run what kinds of models locally? Benchmarks, etc? I'm also trying to tie together different hardware specs to model performance, whether that's training or inference. Like how does memory, VRAM, memory bandwidth, GPU cores, etc. all play into this. Know of any good resources? Oddly enough I might be best off asking an LLM.
- holoduke 2y agoTo prevent custom implementations is recommended to get a Nvidia card. Minimum 3080 to get some results. But if you want video you should go for either 4090 or 5090. ComfUI is a popular interface which you can use for graphical stuff. Images and videos. Local text models I would recommend to use the Misty app. Basically a wrapper and downloader for various models. Tons of youtube videos on how to achieve stuff.
- pier25 2y agoAI is going to push the price closer to $3000. See what happened with crypto a couple of years back.
- theandrewbailey 2y agoThe ~2017 crypto rush told Nvidia how much people were willing to spend on GPUs, so they priced their next series (RTX 2000) much higher. 2020 came around, wash, rinse, repeat.
- Macha 2y agoNote the 20 series bombed, largely because of the price hikes coupled with meager performance gains, so the initial plan was for the 30 series to be much cheaper. But then the 30 series scalping happened and they got a second go at re-anchoring what people thought of as reasonable GPU prices. Also they have diversified other options if gamers won't pay up, compared to just hoping that GPU-minable coins won over those that needed ASICs and the crypto market stayed hot. I can see nVidia being more willing to hurt their gaming market for AI than they ever were for crypto. Also also, AMD has pretty much thrown in the towel at competing for high end gaming GPUs already.
- nfriedly 2y agoMeh. Feels like astronomical prices for the smallest upgrades they could get away with. I miss when high-end GPUs were $300-400, and you could get something reasonable for $100-200. I guess that's just integrated graphics these days. The most I've ever spent on a GPU is ~$300, and I don't really see that changing anytime soon, so it'll be a long time before I'll even consider one of these cards.
- garbageman 2y agoIntel ARC B580 is $249 MSRP and right up your alley in that case.
- nfriedly 2y agoYep. If I needed a new GPU, that's what I'd go for. I'm pretty happy with what I have for the moment, though.
- frognumber 2y agoI'd go for the A770 over the B580. 16GB > 12GB, and that makes a difference for a lot of AI workloads. An older 3060 12GB is also a better option than the B580. It runs around $280, and has much better compatibility (and, likely, better performance). What I'd love to see on all of these are specs on idle power. I don't mind the 5090 approaching a gigawatt peak, but I want to know what it's doing the rest of the time sitting under my desk when I just have a few windows open and am typing a document.
- dcuthbertson 2y agoA gigawatt?! Just a little more power and I won't need a DeLorean for time travel!
- yourusername 2y ago>I miss when high-end GPUs were $300-400, and you could get something reasonable for $100-200. That time is 25 years ago though, i think the Geforce DDR is the last high end card to fit this price bracket. While cards have gotten a lot more expensive those $300 high end cards should be around $600 now. And $200-400 for low end still exists.
- Insanity 2y agoSomewhat related, any recommendations for 'pc builders' where you can configure a PC with the hardware you want, but have it assembled and shipped to you instead of having to build it yourself? With shipping to Canada ideally. I'm planning to upgrade (prob to a mid-end) as my 5 year old computer is starting to show it's age, and with the new GPUs releasing this might be a good time.
- 0xffff2 2y agoI don't know of any such service, but I'm curious what the value is for you? IMO picking the parts is a lot harder than putting them together.
- valzam 2y agoTypically you get warranty on the whole thing through a single merchant, so if anything goes wrong you don't have to deal with the individual parts manufacturers.
- CamperBob2 2y agoPuget Systems is worth checking out.
- zeagle 2y agoMemoryexpress has a system builder tool.
- chmod775 2y ago> will be two times faster [...] thanks to DLSS 4 Translation: No significant actual upgrade. Sounds like we're continuing the trend of newer generations being beaten on fps/$ by the previous generations while hardly pushing the envelope at the top end. A 3090 is $1000 right now.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- intellix 2y agoWhy is that a problem though? Newer and more GPU intensive games get to benefit from DLSS 4 and older games already run fine. What games without DLSS support could have done with a boost? I've heard this twice today so curious why it's being mentioned so often.
- epolanski 2y agoWe all know DLSS4 could be compatible with previous gens. Nvidia has done that in the past already (see PhysX).
- Diti 2y ago> What games without DLSS support could have done with a boost? DCS World?
- bni 2y agoHas DLSS now
- chmod775 2y agoI for one don't like the DLSS/TAA look at all. Between the lack of sharpness, motion blur and ghosting, I don't understand how people can look at that and consider it an upgrade. Let's not even get into the horror that is frame generation. They're a graphics downgrade that gives me a headache and I turn the likes of TAA and DLSS off in every game I can. I'm far from alone in this. So why should we consider to buy a GPU at twice the price when it has barely improved rasterization performance? An artificially generation-locked feature anyone with good vision/perception despises isn't going to win us over.
- jbarrow 2y agoThe increasing TDP trend is going crazy for the top-tier consumer cards: 3090 - 350W 3090 Ti - 450W 4090 - 450W 5090 - 575W 3x3090 (1050W) is less than 2x5090 (1150W), plus you get 72GB of VRAM instead of 64GB, if you can find a motherboard that supports 3 massive cards or good enough risers (apparently near impossible?).
- holoduke 2y agoCan you actually use multiple videocards easily with existing AI model tools?
- jbarrow 2y agoYes, though how you do it depends on what you're doing. I do a lot of training of encoders, multimodal, and vision models, which are typically small enough to fit on a single GPU; multiple GPUs enables data parallelism, where the data is spread to an independent copy of each model. Occasionally fine-tuning large models and need to use model-parallelism, where the model is split across GPUs. This is also necessary for inference of the really big models, as well. But most tooling for training/inference of all kinds of models supports using multiple cards pretty easily.
- benob 2y agoYes, multi-GPU on the same machine is pretty straightforward. For example ollama uses all GPUs out of the box. If you are into training, the huggingface ecosystem supports it and you can always go the manual route to put tensors on their own GPUs with toolkits like pytorch.
- qingcharles 2y agoYes. Depends what software you're using. Some will use more than one (e.g. llama.cpp), some commercial software won't bother.
- dpeterson 2y agoI just made a video on this very thing: https://youtu.be/JtbyA94gffc https://youtu.be/JtbyA94gffc
- holoduke 2y agoSome of the better video generators with pretty good quality can run on the 32gb version. Expect lots of AI generated videos with this generation of videocards. Price is steep and we need another 9700 ati successtory for some serious nvidia competition. Not going to happen anytime soon I am afraid.
- snarfy 2y agoI'm really disappointed in all the advancement in frame generation. Game devs will end up relying on it for any decent performance in lieu of actually optimizing anything, which means games will look great and play terribly. It will be 300 fake fps and 30 real fps. Throw latency out the window.
- NoPicklez 2y agoThis is an odd take I keep hearing, ANY performance increase you could argue that game devs will rely upon it for decent performance. It doesn't matter if that's through software or hardware improvements.
- williamDafoe 2y agoIt looks like the new cards are NO FASTER than the old cards. So they are hyping the fake frames, fake pixels, fake AI rendering. Anything fake = good, anything real = bad. This is the same thing they did with the RTX 4000 series. More fake frames, less GPU horsepower, "Moore's Law is Dead", Jensen wrings his hands, "Nothing I can do! Moore's Law is Dead!" which is how Intel has been slacking since 2013.
- vinyl7 2y agoEverything is fake these days. We have mass psychosis...everyone is living in a collective schizophrenic delusion
- holoduke 2y agoIts more like the 20 series. Definitely faster and for me worth the upgrade. I just count the transistors for a reference. 92 and 77 billion. So yeah not that much.
- numpy-thagoras 2y agoSimilar CUDA core counts for most SKUs compared to last gen (except in the 5090 vs. 4090 comparison). Similar clock speeds compared to the 40-series. The 5090 just has way more CUDA cores and uses proportionally more power compared to the 4090, when going by CUDA core comparisons and clock speed alone. All of the "massive gains" were comparing DLSS and other optimization strategies to standard hardware rendering. Something tells me Nvidia made next to no gains for this generation.
- nullbyte808 2y agonot true. They have redesigned AI cores with a dramatically better DLSS4 model that takes advantage of the new cores. Frames have more details and also a third frame can be generated creating a 300% FPS bump.
- danudey 2y ago> All of the "massive gains" were comparing DLSS and other optimization strategies to standard hardware rendering. > Something tells me Nvidia made next to no gains for this generation. Sounds to me like they made "massive gains". In the end, what matters to gamers is 1. Do my games look good? 2. Do my games run well? If I can go from 45 FPS to 120 FPS and the quality is still there, I don't care if it's because of frame generation and neural upscaling and so on. I'm not going to be upset that it's not lovingly rasterized pixel by pixel if I'm getting the same results (or better, in some cases) from DLSS. To say that Nvidia made no gains this generation makes no sense when they've apparently figured out how to deliver better results to users for less money.
- throwaway48476 2y agoFake frames, fake gains
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoThe human eye can't see more than 60 fps anyway
- sfmike 2y agoOne thing I always remember when people say a 2k gpu is insanity. How many people get a 2k ebike. a 100k weekend car. a 15k motorcycle to use once a month. a time share home. Comparatively a gamer using it even a few hours a day for 3k 4090 build is really an amazing return on that investment.
- satvikpendem 2y agoCorrect, people balk at high GPU prices when others have expensive hobbies too. I think it's because people expect GPUs and PC components to be democratized whereas an expensive car or motorcycle to not be. 5090s are absolutely luxury purchases, no one "needs" one; treat it the same as a sportscar in terms of the clientele able to buy it.
- YmiYugy 2y agoLooks like a bit dud, though given their competition and where their focus is right now maybe expected. Going from 60 to 120fps is cool. Going from 120fps to 240fps is in the realm of diminishing returns, especially because the added latency makes it a non starter for fast paced multiplayer games. 12GB VRAM for over $500 is an absolute travesty. Even today cards with 12GB struggle in some games. 16GB is fine right now, but I'm pretty certain it's going to be an issue in a few years and is kind of insane at $1000. The amount of VRAM should really be double of what it is across the board.
- janalsncm 2y agoI have trained transformers on a 4090 (not language models). Here’s a few notes. You can try out pretty much all GPUs on a cloud provider these days. Do it. VRAM is important for maxing out your batch size. It might make your training go faster, but other hardware matters too. How much having more VRAM speeds things up also depends on your training code. If your next batch isn’t ready by the time one is finished training, fix that first. Coil whine is noticeable on my machine. I can hear when the model is training/next batch is loading. Don’t bother with the founder’s edition.
- magicalhippo 2y agoThanks for sharing your insights, was thinking of upgrading to a 5090 partially to dabble with NNs. > Don’t bother with the founder’s edition. Why?
- janalsncm 2y agoWhen I bought mine the FE was $500 more. Only reason to get it is better cooling and size which were not factors for me.
- magicalhippo 2y agoAh, hadn't been paying that much attention. Thought I had seen them at roughly equal pricing but at $500 extra yeah no thanks.
- datagreed 2y agoMore fake poor frames at less price
- sashank_1509 2y agoDoes any game need 32gb VRAM. Did they even use the full 24Gb of the 4090s? It seems obvious to me that even NVIDIA knows that 5090s and 4090s are used more for AI Workloads than gaming. In my company, every PC has 2 4090s, and 48GB is not enough. 64GB is much better, though I would have preferred if NVIDIA went all in and gave us a 48GB GPU, so that we could have 96GB workstations at this price point without having to spend 6k on an A6000. Overall I think 5090 is a good addition to the quick experimentation for deep learning market, where all serious training and inference will occur on cloud GPU clusters, but we can still do some experimentation on local compute with the 5090.
- HumanifyAI 2y agoThe most interesting aspect here might be the improved tensor cores for AI workloads - could finally make local LLM inference practical for developers without requiring multiple GPUs.
- rldjbpin 2y agointeresting launch but vague in its own way like the one from AMD (less so but in a different way). it is easy to be carried away with vram size, but keeping in mind that most people with apple silicon (who can enjoy several times more memory) are stuck at inference, while training performance is off the charts through cuda hardware. the jury is yet to be out on actual ai training performance, but i bet 4090, if sold at 1k or below, would be better value than lower tier 50 series. the "ai tops" of the 50 series is only impressive for the top model, while the rest are either similar or with lower memory bandwidth despite the newer architecture. i think by now the training is best left on the cloud and overall i'd be happy rather owning a 5070 ti at this rate.
- supermatt 2y agoCan anyone suggest a reliable way to procure a GPU at launch (in the EU)? I always end up late to the party and the prices end up being massively inflated - even now I cant seem to buy a 4090 for anywhere close to the RRP.