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On the one hand millennials are getting older so it's totally reasonable to expect they wouldn't want to party into the early AM anymore. On the other hand rea

• yieldcrv 2y ago
  The article also mentions that earlier ending events made to accommodate aging millennials have seen an unexpected and huge interest from Gen Z But yeah, the decline of the nightlife and hospitality sector is what this article is about, as the regulated rave experience is very mainstream and has been for a long time now The production value is quite high now and still improving so I don't see why the illicit rave experience would be so interesting when the facilities would be so lacking in comparison. There are lots of electronic dance music events on boats, cruiseliners, retired battleships and more. Music festivals are bigger than ever though, and they are so frequent and numerous that you can go as frequently as people were going to clubs. I have multiple friend groups where that’s all they do and it is far more intense than just being out passed 3am, although many do officially end their main programming at 1am, many don’t.
  • celticninja 2y ago
    We go for the vibe not the facilities
    • yieldcrv 2y ago
      And more people are satisfied with the vibes at the better facilities
      • dns_snek 2y ago
        Have you ever been to a rave? I've never seen a fight break out at a rave, but I've seen plenty in clubs. The levels of self-absorbed, inconsiderate, and assholish behavior are usually excruciatingly high at clubs, and tolerably low at raves.
        • quchen 2y ago
          I've never seen a fight at a club. At this one big (80k) festival in northeast lake region Germany neither. In my experience, fighting and aggression are caused mainly by, in decreasing order of importance, alcohol, cocaine, crammed+overfilled spaces. Then a very long gap before bullies and such appear on the list.
        • Earw0rm 2y ago
          Almost like ecstasy and cocaine/alcohol mix have different effects on the human brain and body...
      • celticninja 2y ago
        Those are the people that would not be satisfied with the vibe and would actually detract from it, if they didn't like the facilities. But sure you go mass appeal and you get a manufactured mass appeal vibe, which on the scale of rave vibes is a 3 or 4 and the scale is exponential. If you don't know you don't know but it's worth checking it out if you can.
        • throwway120385 2y ago
          Above & Beyond throw some pretty huge weekenders and the vibe in those giant expensive festivals is pretty good. Swiffer guy not withstanding.
      • jjk166 2y ago
        [Citation Needed]
    • neom 2y ago
      I agree, I was surprised to read "real raves don't happen in legal venues" - first time I've heard that line of thinking. Been raving for 20 years and here is what a rave means to me: very dancy music, electronic of some type (doesn't need to be pure edm), no judgements, kindness, love, good energy. I'd argue this is unsurprising given where the idea of a rave came from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Tests to me, rave is about PLUR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR
      • hmcq6 2y ago
        > no judgements "No judgements" is not something I would attribute to legal venues. I mean there are SOOOOOOOO many clubs with dress codes, and that's just scratching the surface. It is my understanding that rave culture evolved out of the 90's illegal party scene which grew from the 80's acid house music scene. But even if you take it from the Acid Tests that would mean the parties were only legal for a year and have been illegal for nearly 60 years. To some a rave is just any party, to me it refers to the event being a grassroots operation. For the people, by the people and which is usually done on the cheap because artists aren't usually rolling in dough. To each their own though. I'm not gonna police your use of the word (unless you publish it apparently).
  • api 2y ago
    > I don't see why the illicit rave experience would be so interesting when the facilities would be so lacking in comparison. I swear if you strip away legal pot and LGBTQ rights (not saying those are bad) we have culturally returned to the 1950s. This is a very conservative period with little interest in or tolerance for actual outside-the-lines culture or experience.
    • otabdeveloper4 2y ago
      > actual outside-the-lines culture or experience Like racism? Whoops, not that kind of outside-the-lines, buddy! We only do the certified kind of transgressions here!
    • yieldcrv 2y ago
      I don’t get that impression here in California I have noticed that after normalizing anything, counterculture areas of California will always have something even more unfamiliar trying to get tolerated and representation But I don’t see what you’re referring to I think there is a disinterest in illicit raves because the market has reached parity and beyond for the experience that the market actually enjoyed. If it fails to do that or the illegal raves are better again, I think there is still interest in that, far bigger than whatever was happening in the 90s
      • api 2y ago
        To me the giveaway is the decline in sexual experience among young people. This is like a top line KPI for youth culture and socialization since when people have a lot of positive social interaction and mutual bonding experiences they tend to have sex. Loads of people have commented on these trends. I’m not pointing out anything new, but I do think a lot of people don’t see it because it’s hidden behind a facade of very visible socially liberal movements that garner attention out of proportion to their numbers. These folks do not represent the mean or the median of the culture. If you are in the Bay Area or LA or really any metro California city that isn’t a deep suburb your experience might be different. These areas have always been more liberal than the average and enduringly so. The SF Bay was where gay people could go back when there was not just a strong taboo but in many cases real persecution. Edit: with the last election I think the conservative zeitgeist is going to finally crest, and probably inspire a backlash that will start the pendulum going the other way. Things like politics are the lagging end. There’s also a backlash brewing against social media including dating apps, which are one of the drivers for both youth alienation and promulgation of reactionary attitudes. Right wing cultural fear mongering has excellent memetic fitness on social media.
  • esperent 2y ago
    > The production value is quite high now and still improving so I don't see why the illicit rave experience would be so interesting when the facilities would be so lacking in comparison A few reasons: 1. security at official music events are often complete arseholes and can totally destroy the vibe. Think of all the row rent chip on their shoulder wannabe cops, then place them in a field of drunk partying adults with complete power and almost zero oversight (+) 2. Advertising everywhere 3. Massively overpriced food and drink (+) While I fully understand that once you've got multiple thousands of humans in a field, you do need security, at small illegal raves - say a few hundred people - there's no need and the vibe without feeling like you're being watched is spectacular.
    • yieldcrv 2y ago
      And I would say the large festival audiences are wholly unfamiliar with that, given that the option of the bigger elaborate event was always in their face. There was nothing they needed to find or be in the know about, and to them, the festivals are that same journey. Regarding expense: not everyone is broke. And many people have shifted their budget to exclusively going to music festivals. I know lots of people that scoff at the idea of going to a nightclub or “going out” at all, but praise and prioritize going to music festivals. Even more are on payment plans for festival tickets far in advance, they are confident they can sell them at a premium if they don't go. I’m just reporting what I’m seeing and applying market dynamics to it. Given the tension with “wooks” that bum their way to the bigger festivals and have little to support themselves or any integration into society, I see intentional segregation with the current generation of festivals goers that supports an intentional interest in paying a premium for the exclusion it comes with. Event groups found that pool of wealth and demand, and are capitalizing on it to its extreme. But this crowd is really not trying to be around the other budget conscious crowd at the warehouse and barnyard, and there are plenty of good vibes to be had - you just choose which festival has the vibe you like. if one is too fratty for you, or has too many influencers, then you can still go to the “PLUR” one.
    • mschuster91 2y ago
      > (+) While I fully understand that once you've got multiple thousands of humans in a field, you do need security, at small illegal raves - say a few hundred people - there's no need and the vibe without feeling like you're being watched is spectacular. On the other hand - saying this as a former tech guy for illegal raves - even in small raves below 100 people in attendance there's so much potential for shit to go seriously wrong. Obviously substance consumption related issues ranging from ODs over contaminants to mixture effect amplifications, that's the most pressing issue, but you also have your fair share of travel accidents aka someone tripping over tree branches, and you will always have a few people (mostly male, but also a few female) who won't understand borders in all possible ways if they're not sober. Back then a lot of that dark shit was swept under the rug, let us be very clear here. That's the sad price to pay for fly-by-night events without proper security, EMS and whatnot else that is required for licensed events.
  • piva00 2y ago
    > The production value is quite high now and still improving so I don't see why the illicit rave experience would be so interesting when the facilities would be so lacking in comparison. There are lots of electronic dance music events on boats, cruiseliners, retired battleships and more. There will always be people attracted to the underground scene where the production value doesn't rank higher than the energy on the dancefloor. It's good to have both options but they are very different experiences, the mainstream stuff with high production value is a show, it's meant for people who are going to parties to see specific artists and their shows. That experience is quite opposite of what a good underground rave is, it's much more raw, less concerned about the surface-level showmanship; artists are there to provide a journey to the ones on the dancefloor but not to be the main star, the main star is supposed to be the party itself. I really enjoy much more the experience of the underground scene, I don't see phones up in the air recording, I don't see people staring at a light show/screens with AV, the experience of getting lost with a crowd of people, all dancing, interacting among each other. Personally I think it's quite good to have the mainstream scene, it filters out quite a lot of people who wouldn't belong in an underground rave.
  • watwut 2y ago
    > The article also mentions that earlier ending events made to accommodate aging millennials have seen an unexpected and huge interest from Gen Z I do not find it surprising. When I was younger (college age and soon after), I wanted events to start sooner and late events oftentimes discouraged me. It sucked even at that age. It is one thing to start dancing at 8pm and have endurance till the early morning, because you feel like it and have nothing to do the next day. And something completely different if you have to wait till 1am till the event starts. You get tired and dumber the next day, but the amount of dancing you got in exchange is just lower. I was not using stimulants or anything like that and frankly, dropping amount of stimulants use among young people would explain larger younger crowd at earlier events.
  • skerit 2y ago
    > The article also mentions that earlier ending events made to accommodate aging millennials have seen an unexpected and huge interest from Gen Z As a millennial in Belgium, my parties started no earlier than 23:00 and ended at 05:00. But maybe it makes sense that this is disappearing? My parents started partying at 19:00