6 ms·

> On one hand you want to provide livable wages to your athletes Why? Sports are just another form of entertainment for others. Same as any other performance a

> On one hand you want to provide livable wages to your athletes Why? Sports are just another form of entertainment for others. Same as any other performance artist.

Y-bar 2y ago
I think artists should have a livable wage as well.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  I would like to provide liveable wages for both artists and athletes. Who gets to choose which artists and athletes are funded? When do we start funding them? In high-school, before? After they graduate? There are many people who identify as athletes at that age, football players, cheerleaders. I have a 6yo son who is really good at doing various crafts and he really enjoys it, does he count as an artist? How do we define art? Are we counting the preforming arts? Does someone playing the guitar in the subway count? What about my garage band that I have with my friends? On the flip side, are we also going to ensure Taylor Swift has a livable wage for life? Tom Brady?
  - anotherhue 2y ago
    Al least you can race the athletes against each other to find out who is the best. Much hard to do that with artists. We could say we'll fund the fastest people but in all liklihood those will turn out to be people who have dedicated the most time to their sport, which is a pretty good proxy for being rich, because most people can't afford that level of time investment.
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      Many Olympic "sports" are judged on artistic merit. Which seems weird to me, but what do I know?
  - Y-bar 2y ago
    > Who gets to choose which artists and athletes are funded? Preferably via UBI which would prevent cheating and inconsistencies and minimise the bureaucracy around it. > When do we start funding them? Smarter people than me have already answered this, but generally at 18 years of age or after graduation seems to be a common answer. > I have a 6yo son who is really good at doing various crafts and he really enjoys it, does he count as an artist? As far as I am concerned yes, he should be provided with UBI once he reaches a mature age (see earlier answer as well). > How do we define art? Are we counting the preforming arts? Does someone playing the guitar in the subway count? What about my garage band that I have with my friends? That's what's so great about UBI, no need for subjective/objective debates. Everyone gets it, nobody gets to gate-keep, no expensive investigations into what is art and so on. All these people are eligible for UBI. > On the flip side, are we also going to ensure Taylor Swift has a livable wage for life? Tom Brady? That's where the _Universal_ part of _Universal Basic Income_ makes itself reminded.
    - chii 2y ago
      And how is such a UBI funded, pray tell? Will you agree to a 90% tax rate for your regular job, so that UBI could be had?
      - Y-bar 2y ago
        What you do not consider is that all serious UBI initiatives will see UBI as a _replacement_ to multiple other already existing welfare programs such as housing stipends, childcare benefits, maternity leave benefits, illness benefits, food stamps, veteran care... Not only will those be removed if UBI is implemented, the bureaucracy around those benefits will be eliminated or significantly reduced which means that more of the money paid in taxes will be distributed to people. As far as my own tax burden, I pay a marginal tax rate of about 33% and would have no issue increasing that. I also think I pay too little in property taxes for my house. I am also getting a tax write-off to my loan which means I can take on a higher loan that I maybe should have (this write-off is bad on a macro scale because of the increased risk), I think that write-off should be phased out. There are also other taxes to adjust such as Tobacco taxes, VAT:s (we have four tiers today: 0, 6, 12, and 25 percent VAT depending on the type of good), Wealth taxes, Carbon taxes, and Financial taxes such as those on dividends and transactions.
  - yallpendantools 2y ago
    First of all, funding arts/sports != livable wages for the artists/atheletes. There's an overlap but wage is just at the tip of the iceberg of funding. Provide livable wages to athletes and artists who represent your country (i.e., Olympians and national performers/artists). Fund development programs from as early as possible; this means grassroots efforts like summer camps, higher-level contests/tournaments, providing funds for national and international exposure, and providing for easy access to decent gear, among others. A lot of the participants in these programs wouldn't do this for life---won't make it to the Olympics or to the National Opera---but it will do a lot of other things like keep children off the streets and, not to mention, develop other skills/connections that could still come in useful later in life. If anything, sports could give them a love for exercise which, I heard recently, is the most potent medical intervention. And yes, your son is an artist as long as he imagines himself to be. Ideally he has access to these development programs that could pave the way for him to a professional art career if he's so determined. Your garage band is an artist group; what you may not be is a professional artist group. Same goes for the subway busker. Speaking of which, when you went to the flip side, you kinda went from oranges to, not quite apples but lemons. Professionals like Swift and Brady should be far far less the taxpayer's concern compared to Olympians and other amateurs.
    - reshlo 2y ago
      > national performers/artists Who is in this group?
      - chii 2y ago
        So you hold a competition to see who is the best...
        reshlo 2y ago
        Is this trumpet player better than that painter? Is this sculptor better than that beat poet?
    - themaninthedark 2y ago
- pxmpxm 2y ago
  "Livage wage" is just euphemism for confiscating someone else's time. The guy stamping metal parts at a factory has to work an hour more, because you want to take part of his income and hand it to someone doing his/her hobby.
nolist_policy 2y ago
Athletes are also prestige for the country.

> On one hand you want to provide livable wages to your athletes Why? Sports are just another form of entertainment for others. Same as any other performance artist.

Y-bar 2y ago

I think artists should have a livable wage as well.

themaninthedark 2y ago
I would like to provide liveable wages for both artists and athletes. Who gets to choose which artists and athletes are funded? When do we start funding them? In high-school, before? After they graduate? There are many people who identify as athletes at that age, football players, cheerleaders. I have a 6yo son who is really good at doing various crafts and he really enjoys it, does he count as an artist? How do we define art? Are we counting the preforming arts? Does someone playing the guitar in the subway count? What about my garage band that I have with my friends? On the flip side, are we also going to ensure Taylor Swift has a livable wage for life? Tom Brady?
- anotherhue 2y ago
  Al least you can race the athletes against each other to find out who is the best. Much hard to do that with artists. We could say we'll fund the fastest people but in all liklihood those will turn out to be people who have dedicated the most time to their sport, which is a pretty good proxy for being rich, because most people can't afford that level of time investment.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Many Olympic "sports" are judged on artistic merit. Which seems weird to me, but what do I know?
- Y-bar 2y ago
  > Who gets to choose which artists and athletes are funded? Preferably via UBI which would prevent cheating and inconsistencies and minimise the bureaucracy around it. > When do we start funding them? Smarter people than me have already answered this, but generally at 18 years of age or after graduation seems to be a common answer. > I have a 6yo son who is really good at doing various crafts and he really enjoys it, does he count as an artist? As far as I am concerned yes, he should be provided with UBI once he reaches a mature age (see earlier answer as well). > How do we define art? Are we counting the preforming arts? Does someone playing the guitar in the subway count? What about my garage band that I have with my friends? That's what's so great about UBI, no need for subjective/objective debates. Everyone gets it, nobody gets to gate-keep, no expensive investigations into what is art and so on. All these people are eligible for UBI. > On the flip side, are we also going to ensure Taylor Swift has a livable wage for life? Tom Brady? That's where the _Universal_ part of _Universal Basic Income_ makes itself reminded.
  - chii 2y ago
    And how is such a UBI funded, pray tell? Will you agree to a 90% tax rate for your regular job, so that UBI could be had?
    - Y-bar 2y ago
      What you do not consider is that all serious UBI initiatives will see UBI as a _replacement_ to multiple other already existing welfare programs such as housing stipends, childcare benefits, maternity leave benefits, illness benefits, food stamps, veteran care... Not only will those be removed if UBI is implemented, the bureaucracy around those benefits will be eliminated or significantly reduced which means that more of the money paid in taxes will be distributed to people. As far as my own tax burden, I pay a marginal tax rate of about 33% and would have no issue increasing that. I also think I pay too little in property taxes for my house. I am also getting a tax write-off to my loan which means I can take on a higher loan that I maybe should have (this write-off is bad on a macro scale because of the increased risk), I think that write-off should be phased out. There are also other taxes to adjust such as Tobacco taxes, VAT:s (we have four tiers today: 0, 6, 12, and 25 percent VAT depending on the type of good), Wealth taxes, Carbon taxes, and Financial taxes such as those on dividends and transactions.
- yallpendantools 2y ago
  First of all, funding arts/sports != livable wages for the artists/atheletes. There's an overlap but wage is just at the tip of the iceberg of funding. Provide livable wages to athletes and artists who represent your country (i.e., Olympians and national performers/artists). Fund development programs from as early as possible; this means grassroots efforts like summer camps, higher-level contests/tournaments, providing funds for national and international exposure, and providing for easy access to decent gear, among others. A lot of the participants in these programs wouldn't do this for life---won't make it to the Olympics or to the National Opera---but it will do a lot of other things like keep children off the streets and, not to mention, develop other skills/connections that could still come in useful later in life. If anything, sports could give them a love for exercise which, I heard recently, is the most potent medical intervention. And yes, your son is an artist as long as he imagines himself to be. Ideally he has access to these development programs that could pave the way for him to a professional art career if he's so determined. Your garage band is an artist group; what you may not be is a professional artist group. Same goes for the subway busker. Speaking of which, when you went to the flip side, you kinda went from oranges to, not quite apples but lemons. Professionals like Swift and Brady should be far far less the taxpayer's concern compared to Olympians and other amateurs.
  - reshlo 2y ago
    > national performers/artists Who is in this group?
    - chii 2y ago
      So you hold a competition to see who is the best...
      - reshlo 2y ago
        Is this trumpet player better than that painter? Is this sculptor better than that beat poet?
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
pxmpxm 2y ago
"Livage wage" is just euphemism for confiscating someone else's time. The guy stamping metal parts at a factory has to work an hour more, because you want to take part of his income and hand it to someone doing his/her hobby.

nolist_policy 2y ago

Athletes are also prestige for the country.