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> But fast-forward to today, and browsers can do all that. Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS. > Developers pay hefty app store fees You pay 99$ per y

> But fast-forward to today, and browsers can do all that. Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS. > Developers pay hefty app store fees You pay 99$ per year and 15% for each sale. Apple handles VAT, refunds, distribution and so on. > They’re faster, more flexible, and work seamlessly across devices. Native apps? Not so much. Enabling iCloud sync for your app is just a single click on Xcode. > Why Web Apps Are the Future On a national TV program in Germany, they talked about an app related to trees in Hamburg. That same day, my app on the App Store experienced a significant spike in downloads. When I looked into it, I discovered that the app they mentioned on the news was actually a PWA! :) I feel like the author doesn't have any idea about native app development.

jampekka 2y ago
There are other platforms than iOS.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
Your first quote is very misleading because it followed this: > apps had unique features like notifications and offline access. Browsers can do those things. If you're going to offer "Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS" then, at the very list, provide one or two examples of what you're referring to.
- aman-pro 2y ago
  Contacts API; Not all sensors are supported
  - rejhgadellaa 2y ago
    Contacts Picker API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Contact_Picker_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Contact_Pic... Hardware APIs: There is of course a good reason why websites don't get unlimited access to those APIs (and why they can't access them in the background). But Bluetooth and USB are both available on Chromium browsers on every platform except iOS (because Chrome on iOS is Safari). Example: When Google closed down Stadia, they offered a way to unlock the Stadia controller so you could connect it via BT to any computer and use it as a regular controller. You just went to their website, hooked up the controller via USB, and the site would update the firmware on the USB device. But sure, there are many use-cases for native apps. Also, there are many native apps that should just be a website (you shouldn't even need to install it if you only need to use it once or twice).
    - aman-pro 2y ago
      If you open the link that you shared you may realise that the API is so unsupported that you can't build any production application on top of it. I was not denying that not every app needs to be native -- I was replying to a comment asking for what is not supported.
- charrondev 2y ago
  One major one for anything with a text input it the inability to know when the keyboard is open and closed and how large it is. It’s very common for something like a comment box to keep the text pinned above the virtual keyboard. This is impossible on the web. If you have ever seen an implementation of this on the web (for iOS) please point me in that direction as I would love to copy the implementation. Notifications just came recently, but weren’t available for a decade after availability to native apps. The final hurdle is discovery. It’s not possible for a site or app to act as a one click installer of a PWA (add to homescreen) and sites can’t prompt to be added.
threeseed 2y ago
> Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS And nor should they. Every single API that gets added to a browser increases the likelihood that you will be accurately fingerprinted and tracked across the web. This data is then packaged and sold to third parties whom you will never know about. Every time I hear the PWA argument it's always what is in the best interest of developers not users.
- bogdan 2y ago
  Fingerprinting isn't going anywhere without legislation. New browser APIs or PWAs won't change the underlying problem. It's the same status quo.
- the_gipsy 2y ago
  Apps fingerprint you much, much better, and can access more data (despite what apple marketing says), your argument is moot.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    What data can apps access without your explicit permission?
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      install tiktok (if you do not have it) and disable everything, no mic/camera/photos/contacts/… nothing. then ask you partner/friend/… to send you some text messages about purchasing an ebike for instance. open safari and do some searches for ebikes (https://blue.bike https://blue.bike perhaps and others)… the head on over to tiktok and scroll a bit and see if any ebikes start showing up…
      - threeseed 2y ago
        a) There is no evidence that Apple is sharing messages with third parties. b) You are simply confirming my point which is that when you visit a website it is able to tie you to an consistent identifier through the APIs your browser supports.
mamcx 2y ago
> Developers pay hefty app store fees So, hosting doesn't cost? Too many app-but-websites should be local, but because are web requires hosting and likely a database (that must be 'web-scale' so it survives bots). My web app cost far more than my older native one. And is far harder to maintain...
- rejhgadellaa 2y ago
  Then why did you switch (honest question, not intended to be snarky)?
  - mamcx 2y ago
    Customer pressures. Don't want to pay for iPhones ('too costly'), and then for long very hard to optimize for Android ('why too slow?') (even native... wait if native why slow? Because they buy the worst, cheapest androids ever, then later buy androids that cost similar to iPhones, so it was a big switch cost for nothing at the end) Eventually, it became nice because it worked to give the app a wider reach. Then I added an e-commerce front, so it made sense. But is it less costly than native? Not.
e12e 2y ago
>> They’re faster, more flexible, and work seamlessly across devices. Native apps? Not so much. > Enabling iCloud sync for your app is just a single click on Xcode. How well does that work on Android, Linux and Windows desktop, ChromeOS?
wiseowise 2y ago
> Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS. Always laugh at the argument. Surely this matters for yet-another-mobile-crud #3553333. > You pay 99$ per year and 15% for each sale. Apple handles VAT, refunds, distribution and so on. 15% until 1 mil, isn’t it? And even without that, 15% is ridiculous price. > Enabling iCloud sync for your app is just a single click on Xcode. How many Xcode clicks to port iOS app to Windows, Mac, Android and Web?

jampekka 2y ago

There are other platforms than iOS.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago

Your first quote is very misleading because it followed this: > apps had unique features like notifications and offline access. Browsers can do those things. If you're going to offer "Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS" then, at the very list, provide one or two examples of what you're referring to.

aman-pro 2y ago
Contacts API; Not all sensors are supported
- rejhgadellaa 2y ago
  Contacts Picker API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Contact_Picker_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Contact_Pic... Hardware APIs: There is of course a good reason why websites don't get unlimited access to those APIs (and why they can't access them in the background). But Bluetooth and USB are both available on Chromium browsers on every platform except iOS (because Chrome on iOS is Safari). Example: When Google closed down Stadia, they offered a way to unlock the Stadia controller so you could connect it via BT to any computer and use it as a regular controller. You just went to their website, hooked up the controller via USB, and the site would update the firmware on the USB device. But sure, there are many use-cases for native apps. Also, there are many native apps that should just be a website (you shouldn't even need to install it if you only need to use it once or twice).
  - aman-pro 2y ago
    If you open the link that you shared you may realise that the API is so unsupported that you can't build any production application on top of it. I was not denying that not every app needs to be native -- I was replying to a comment asking for what is not supported.
charrondev 2y ago
One major one for anything with a text input it the inability to know when the keyboard is open and closed and how large it is. It’s very common for something like a comment box to keep the text pinned above the virtual keyboard. This is impossible on the web. If you have ever seen an implementation of this on the web (for iOS) please point me in that direction as I would love to copy the implementation. Notifications just came recently, but weren’t available for a decade after availability to native apps. The final hurdle is discovery. It’s not possible for a site or app to act as a one click installer of a PWA (add to homescreen) and sites can’t prompt to be added.

threeseed 2y ago

> Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS And nor should they. Every single API that gets added to a browser increases the likelihood that you will be accurately fingerprinted and tracked across the web. This data is then packaged and sold to third parties whom you will never know about. Every time I hear the PWA argument it's always what is in the best interest of developers not users.

bogdan 2y ago
Fingerprinting isn't going anywhere without legislation. New browser APIs or PWAs won't change the underlying problem. It's the same status quo.
the_gipsy 2y ago
Apps fingerprint you much, much better, and can access more data (despite what apple marketing says), your argument is moot.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface_74 2y ago
  What data can apps access without your explicit permission?
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    install tiktok (if you do not have it) and disable everything, no mic/camera/photos/contacts/… nothing. then ask you partner/friend/… to send you some text messages about purchasing an ebike for instance. open safari and do some searches for ebikes (https://blue.bike https://blue.bike perhaps and others)… the head on over to tiktok and scroll a bit and see if any ebikes start showing up…
    - threeseed 2y ago
      a) There is no evidence that Apple is sharing messages with third parties. b) You are simply confirming my point which is that when you visit a website it is able to tie you to an consistent identifier through the APIs your browser supports.

mamcx 2y ago

> Developers pay hefty app store fees So, hosting doesn't cost? Too many app-but-websites should be local, but because are web requires hosting and likely a database (that must be 'web-scale' so it survives bots). My web app cost far more than my older native one. And is far harder to maintain...

rejhgadellaa 2y ago
Then why did you switch (honest question, not intended to be snarky)?
- mamcx 2y ago
  Customer pressures. Don't want to pay for iPhones ('too costly'), and then for long very hard to optimize for Android ('why too slow?') (even native... wait if native why slow? Because they buy the worst, cheapest androids ever, then later buy androids that cost similar to iPhones, so it was a big switch cost for nothing at the end) Eventually, it became nice because it worked to give the app a wider reach. Then I added an e-commerce front, so it made sense. But is it less costly than native? Not.

e12e 2y ago

>> They’re faster, more flexible, and work seamlessly across devices. Native apps? Not so much. > Enabling iCloud sync for your app is just a single click on Xcode. How well does that work on Android, Linux and Windows desktop, ChromeOS?

wiseowise 2y ago

> Browsers can't access all the APIs in iOS. Always laugh at the argument. Surely this matters for yet-another-mobile-crud #3553333. > You pay 99$ per year and 15% for each sale. Apple handles VAT, refunds, distribution and so on. 15% until 1 mil, isn’t it? And even without that, 15% is ridiculous price. > Enabling iCloud sync for your app is just a single click on Xcode. How many Xcode clicks to port iOS app to Windows, Mac, Android and Web?