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When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I have used Linux for just shy of 30 years. It is different

by jmclnx 2y ago

When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I have used Linux for just shy of 30 years. It is different than Windows and far more powerful. It is just that people do not want to learn different things. Plus Linux has no spyware. These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. So off to my usual rant :) If I was the "ruler" of Linux, I would make sure no Nvidia GPUs would work under Linux until Nvidia opens up their GPU.

sys_64738 2y ago
> It is just that people do not want to learn different things The differences from Windows versions 7 to 10 to 11 are substantial. To me it seemed like a consistent desktop experience from Linux Mint is much better for those who do not want change at all.
- zahlman 2y ago
  Agreed. Going from Mint 20 to 22, the experience in Cinnamon (/ Muffin / LightDM / Nemo stack) is a ton more stable, and there's a lot more readily available customization that's a lot nicer to do overall (notwithstanding the bits that are hidden in a binary file designed for `dconf`).
HideousKojima 2y ago
>These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. Even GPU drivers work fine for 90-99% of games on Linux. The biggest issue keeping certain games from running on Linux is actually anti-cheat support: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  > And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows Because Linux does not support hardware (or at least new hardware) in the same Windows does. AMD makes new graphics card, steps on Windows vs Linux to release an updated driver to support it Windows - Update driver, release via Windows Update / Website etc Linux - Send patches months in advance to the LKML using email, make sure any patches needed in Mesa are also sent in with a completely different system. Then, wait for your patches to be peer reviewed and land, then wait for a kernel release, then wait for distros to package said kernel and release it, which if you're on a distro that fixes to a kernel version, could be waiting 6 months.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    We could use a bit more thoughtfullness in software dev.
talldayo 2y ago
> It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. And even that's gotten better in recent years, too. Nvidia hasn't fixed everything, but two of the biggest concerns (not supporting Wayland and fighting community drivers) have began to be addressed recently. It's beginning to look like Nvidia is taking desktop Linux seriously, albeit slowly. Most of these changes landed in the 555-series drivers, which are still pretty fresh, maybe even still in beta iirc.
itvision 2y ago
> When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I've used Linux for as much only I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Not a big achievement but kinda shows I'm not just a bystander. You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. Must be a non-issue I guess.
- pxmpxm 2y ago
  Delighfuly subtle <3
- senko 2y ago
  > I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Exceptionally humble, indeed. > You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. This comes up often and I'm always fascinated by the implied assumption that time isn't wasted fixing Windows or MacOS computers and making software work on those systems. The age-old "No, I will not fix your computer!" is not a Linux meme - in 99% of cases it refers to a Windows machine. We can trade anecdata until the heat death of the universe, and in fact you've nicely listed many of the pro/con points in your articles. However having read both versions (current/technical and final), I must agree with parent. This is just a rant from someone who likes Windows more. I also want to call out your "solving linux" section (in the technical article). You've listed basically the entire Ubuntu playbook (which is, btw, a UK company, not an African company). Mark "poached" debian developers (DDs), poured millions of his own money into it, spearheaded many of the desktop-specific innovations (now supplanted by other software, but Ubuntu provided the initial push), created an app store, did an enormous amount of work popularizing Linux specifically for the desktop, was the first to start "officially checked and approved" hardware list, etc. And the results show even if we don't attribute them to Ubuntu today, and even if we're using alternatives: Linux desktop today is a much smoother experience than 20 years ago. So, while I can sympathize with many of the points in your technical article (https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...) even if I do not agree with them, the linked one really seems like distillation to a "I like Windows more" rant.

by jmclnx 2y ago

sys_64738 2y ago

> It is just that people do not want to learn different things The differences from Windows versions 7 to 10 to 11 are substantial. To me it seemed like a consistent desktop experience from Linux Mint is much better for those who do not want change at all.

zahlman 2y ago
Agreed. Going from Mint 20 to 22, the experience in Cinnamon (/ Muffin / LightDM / Nemo stack) is a ton more stable, and there's a lot more readily available customization that's a lot nicer to do overall (notwithstanding the bits that are hidden in a binary file designed for `dconf`).

HideousKojima 2y ago

>These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. Even GPU drivers work fine for 90-99% of games on Linux. The biggest issue keeping certain games from running on Linux is actually anti-cheat support: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/

ChocolateGod 2y ago
> And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows Because Linux does not support hardware (or at least new hardware) in the same Windows does. AMD makes new graphics card, steps on Windows vs Linux to release an updated driver to support it Windows - Update driver, release via Windows Update / Website etc Linux - Send patches months in advance to the LKML using email, make sure any patches needed in Mesa are also sent in with a completely different system. Then, wait for your patches to be peer reviewed and land, then wait for a kernel release, then wait for distros to package said kernel and release it, which if you're on a distro that fixes to a kernel version, could be waiting 6 months.
- skydhash 2y ago
  We could use a bit more thoughtfullness in software dev.

talldayo 2y ago

> It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. And even that's gotten better in recent years, too. Nvidia hasn't fixed everything, but two of the biggest concerns (not supporting Wayland and fighting community drivers) have began to be addressed recently. It's beginning to look like Nvidia is taking desktop Linux seriously, albeit slowly. Most of these changes landed in the 555-series drivers, which are still pretty fresh, maybe even still in beta iirc.

itvision 2y ago

> When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I've used Linux for as much only I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Not a big achievement but kinda shows I'm not just a bystander. You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. Must be a non-issue I guess.

pxmpxm 2y ago
Delighfuly subtle <3
senko 2y ago
> I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Exceptionally humble, indeed. > You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. This comes up often and I'm always fascinated by the implied assumption that time isn't wasted fixing Windows or MacOS computers and making software work on those systems. The age-old "No, I will not fix your computer!" is not a Linux meme - in 99% of cases it refers to a Windows machine. We can trade anecdata until the heat death of the universe, and in fact you've nicely listed many of the pro/con points in your articles. However having read both versions (current/technical and final), I must agree with parent. This is just a rant from someone who likes Windows more. I also want to call out your "solving linux" section (in the technical article). You've listed basically the entire Ubuntu playbook (which is, btw, a UK company, not an African company). Mark "poached" debian developers (DDs), poured millions of his own money into it, spearheaded many of the desktop-specific innovations (now supplanted by other software, but Ubuntu provided the initial push), created an app store, did an enormous amount of work popularizing Linux specifically for the desktop, was the first to start "officially checked and approved" hardware list, etc. And the results show even if we don't attribute them to Ubuntu today, and even if we're using alternatives: Linux desktop today is a much smoother experience than 20 years ago. So, while I can sympathize with many of the points in your technical article (https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...) even if I do not agree with them, the linked one really seems like distillation to a "I like Windows more" rant.