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I feel like I should duck and cover after saying this, but after seeing what Amazon did to Lord of the Rings and what they are supposedly trying to do to Warha

• Athas 2y ago
  What are they supposedly trying to do with Warhammer (40k)? I am aware that Amazon has the rights and are working on developing something, but apart from the Secret Level episode (which was good), has there been any details? While some of what Amazon has made is terrible, much is good. They produce so much that the average quality is pretty close to the global average, so I find predictions challenging.
  • upghost 2y ago
    The rage bait on the internet claims they are changing the lore to accommodate DEI. Don't shoot the messenger plz. I'm just saying I understand why the creative content owners are concerned about Amazon retconning lore and maybe want to see how things like Warhammer play out first.
    • __alexs 2y ago
      GW have been trying to add diversity to Warhammer for ages. Most of it is good actually?
    • ethbr1 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • upghost 2y ago
        Whoa there, citation? A "lot of"?
        • alumic 2y ago
          No evidence beyond Medium articles and Reddit posts.
        • ethbr1 2y ago
          When you get people showing up to events in neo Nazi iconography, being allowed to stay and play, and then the IP owner has to clarify (again) that they don't actually support hate groups? [0] Or the community makes memes about a certain type of fan? [1] That feels like a lot. And I get it -- lots of people are too dumb for satire. But when GW plays with fire they have a social safety responsibility to be extra cautious, not laissez faire 'Who could have ever forseen that burning trash in my house might lead to the entire building catching fire?' [0] https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/1Xpzeld6/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/1Xpzeld6/... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/p0r29n/no_politics_in_my_hobby/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/p0r29n/no_politic...
          • deleted 2y ago
            [deleted]
          • mulmen 2y ago
            Seems like an enormous leap to go from a Reddit post and an official condemnation of Nazi iconography to “a lot”.
        • sickofparadox 2y ago
          It's a very unfortunate thing that the 40k community has mythologized this large contingent of Nazis that is allegedly omnipresent yet never even a creepshot of them surfaces at events. I feel like many more people would love to join the community (which is great) but are scared off by this self-slander the community puts on itself.
      • krapp 2y ago
        Every fandom - Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR, Marvel, Doctor Who, D&D, gaming, anime, all of them - have garnered a vocal contingent of incels raging about "DEI" and "woke" and trying as hard as possible to shit in the pool and ruin the fun for everyone else. It's the legacy of GamerGate.
        • _DeadFred_ 2y ago
          Probably a hot take but if you use the word 'incel' to label people you are kinda trash. If you use sexuality to label people in a bad way/try to demean them (especially when one of the worlds you use is involuntary I.E. out of their control), you are definitely trash.
          • krapp 2y ago
            Incelism has nothing to do with sexuality. Incel culture labels people - especially women - in bad ways and demeans them all the time. It's misogyny as an identity, it is not an immutable personal characteristic. Their participation in that culture and their behavior is entirely within their control.
    • lbcadden3 2y ago
      Actually Games Workshop started that, probably just being accelerated by Amazon.
    • Freak_NL 2y ago
      It might be a moot point anyway. If we can consider Disney a bellwether¹, expect more content producers to step back on the diversity front. Personally I think it completely depends on the story and artistic direction. Wolf Hall (casting mostly reflects historical appearances of characters portrayed) can exist next to Bridgerton (explicitly colour-blind casting). Both have their merits. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/dec/18/chanel-stewart-trans-actor-win-or-lose-disney-pixar-changes-character-cisgender https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/dec/18/chanel-stewart-...
    • blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      Amazon has a diversity team in the entertainment side of business that literally changes casting and content to fit their DEI goals. It often happens in awkward and forced ways, and that is affecting things like this Bond controversy. Most of this is motivated simply by Amazon’s own DEI culture. But part of it is because the award shows have criteria for eligibility (for best picture etc) that require meeting diversity and other requirements that have nothing to do with how entertaining the show is. Since those creating or participating in these shows don’t want to be ineligible, they do whatever it takes, including retconning.
      • scarface_74 2y ago
        I worked for AWS for 3.5 years. Their only culture is to treat all employees like shit, a PIP culture and one that they know they can continue being tech’s worst employer (despite the newest Leadership Principle) because all of the H1B visa holders will do damn near anything to keep their jobs. This isn’t an H1B Visa holder rant. It’s an indictment to the program that keeps them beholden to a company.
        • tokinonagare 2y ago
          Both can be true. They're even complementary I'd say: the DEI policies are like social greenwashing for how poorly they treat their employees.
          • scarface_74 2y ago
            As an internal employee I never saw anything but a perfunctory “ally” programs and a bunch of talk about “diversity” and of course we had to watch the videos and use language that didn’t offend anyone. FWIW: I’m Black and I found some of the things that were suppose to trigger me or some of the “green washing” that were suppose to give me a warm and fuzzy eye rolling. To be clear, I had a customer facing role (AWS Professional Services). Amazon wasn’t about to send anyone incompetent to talk to their large clients I don’t care what kind of initiatives they had.
      • aleph_minus_one 2y ago
    • scarface_74 2y ago
      I wonder if these are the same people who whined about DC casting a black woman to play an orange alien from Tamaran? They also criticized Disney for having a Black Captain America in the movies even though it was clear to any Marvel comics fans that this was always going to be the case.
      • tokinonagare 2y ago
        Those fans would probably be as vocal if a white actor was casted for the main role in a Black Panther movie.
        • scarface_74 2y ago
          The difference is that the role of Captain America had plenty of holders in the comics - including Sam Wilson.
        • krapp 2y ago
          Actually, a lot of them complained that Black Panther had too many black people in it. They considered it unwatchable and impossible to relate to.
    • jowday 2y ago
      I think most rage bait about the Warhammer series is manufactured by content farm channels to generate clicks - the series wasn’t even officially in development until a few weeks ago. There’s an entire subgenre of YouTube channels that consist solely of creators updating videos promising that they have inside information on the creative conflicts at Lucasfilm/Amazon/etc, all of which happen to align perfectly with whatever the fandom is outraged with that week. https://youtube.com/@mikezeroh https://youtube.com/@mikezeroh This guys channel is a great example - most of the channels discussing “female custodes Henry cavil warhammer 40k tv series” Amazon follow a similar format. Edit: I’d also add that I don’t think Rings of Power is bad because they cast minorities - most of the actors are fine, really. The plotting and pacing is just horrendous. In a show that has 5+ active plot lines and threads scattered all over the world, they’ve spent a quarter of their screen time on a plot line that’s completely disconnected not just from the lore but from the wider story being told and doesn’t look like it’s going to connect anytime soon. Which is funny, because I’d imagine Amazon execs felt that they were obligated to include that plot line (the Hobbit one) to appease viewers.
  • Fomite 2y ago
    There have not been any details. There have been YouTubers making things up and desperately pretending Henry Cavill is their champion standing bravely against "woke".
  • chuckadams 2y ago
    Just Warhammer, not 40K. I would turn my mother over to the Inquisition to get to see the latter. Venerate the Immortal Emperor!
  • 3eb7988a1663 2y ago
    That Secret Level episode was amazing. Did an excellent job of portraying Space Marines as pinnacle warriors.
• Yeul 2y ago
  Daniel Craig was already a very different Bond from Roger Moore. Although the Sovjets are the bad guys again...
  • Joeboy 2y ago
    He was also I think the first big internet casting controversy, although everybody's kind of forgotten that now.
    • andrepd 2y ago
      Such quaint times. Nowadays every media release has some people having extremely intense feelings of hatred towards it, amplified several fold by the Algorithm.
    • ksec 2y ago
      Before we all watched the movie, "Who was the idiot that picked Daniel Craig as Bond". After we watched it "Who was the genius that picked Daniel Craig?" Now I miss him. Often thinking if Tom cruise could do so many MI, I am sure Daniel Craig could do just one more Bond.
      • kirubakaran 2y ago
        Layer Cake was basically is Bond audition
  • squarefoot 2y ago
    Am I the only one who thinks Craig could have been a hell of a Russian spy villain in the original franchise?
    • dghughes 2y ago
      I've always thought Craig could play Putin in a movie, or his brother.
      • 2y ago
• zahma 2y ago
  And seeing where they’re at with the plot line killing off Bond, it’s definitely an inflection point to see how they reinvent the series. Until now, Bond never actually died, but Amazon might just find a way…
  • eagerpace 2y ago
    That was Craig's request as a way to close out his series. They will start fresh with a new timeline.
  • deleted 2y ago
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• JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Until Fleming started writing the books with the films in mind, Bond was already a very different Bond. The books are uneven, IMHO, but "Casino Royale", the first of Fleming's novels — written well before the "Dr. No" film — is enjoyable and will give you a very different Bond from what you are used to. Insecure, self-doubting, no "gadgets".... "Diamonds Are Forever" was perhaps my favorite of the books though. (The film "Goldfinger" actually improved upon the plot of the original book in my opinion — in the book Goldfinger actually tries to steal the gold from Fort Knox.)
  • ttyprintk 2y ago
    Agree about Goldfinger. Moonraker made an awful lot of money.
  • ubermonkey 2y ago
    My take after reading those is that the films are generally better works, but the other thing that's worth remembering is that Eon was out of the business of "adapting" Fleming novels after _Live and Let Die_. The follow-up (_The Man With The Golden Gun_) shares a title with a novel, but little else, and after that the films are mostly just a pastiche of whatever's-hot-in-Hollywood (e.g., _Moonraker_ having a space battle) and story elements pulled from lesser Fleming works and short stories. The exception obviously is the _Casino Royale_ with Daniel Craig, which most fans view as one of the best Bond films. I've forgotten the specifics, but that book was unavailable to Eon for decades due to some copyright and licensing shenanigans.
    • rjsw 2y ago
      > The exception obviously is the _Casino Royale_ with Daniel Craig, which most fans view as one of the best Bond films. I've forgotten the specifics, but that book was unavailable to Eon for decades due to some copyright and licensing shenanigans. Some info on the copyright issues here [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(1967_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(1967_film)
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    Daniel Craig's more bitter Bond is far closer to the Bond of the original books. Dark, morose, bitter, at times very disenchanted (several resignation letters, if not resignations), spends time alone with a bottle, womanizing in the "not sexy" way...
• airstrike 2y ago
  I mostly enjoyed Rings of Power, particularly Season 2, despite its differences from the source material and the atrocious direction and editing in some episodes
• tonystride 2y ago
  I don’t understand the hate for Amazon’s LotR compared to what they did to Wheel of Time! I’ll admit I’m not a huge LotR fan, but I didn’t hate the time I spent watching the Amazon adaptation. Wheel of Time though, they drove a truck through that poor franchise. Then backed up over it, and drove over it several more times!
  • IshKebab 2y ago
    I haven't watched the Rings of Power though I have seen enough YouTube analyses of it to know I don't want to. I think the issue with it is that they spent $1bn on it, so you'd think they'd make sure the story and action scenes were top notch, not middling cliche.
    • tonystride 2y ago
      I get it, I just finished Arcane and that was pure chef’s kiss. It can be done and it’s so disappointing when it’s not, especially considering the budget. Although maybe with that much money involved it’s probably hard to keep one unified vision as I’m sure there are many interests competing. That being said, it was still better than Wheel of Time. I’d argue that LotR was watchable, where as WoT was absolutely not!
    • ethbr1 2y ago
      > though I have seen enough YouTube analyses of it to know I don't want to Eh. Probably don't trust ragebait TV. YouTube optimizes for clicks and eyeball time, not honest considered takes.
    • AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      Do you like even reasonable accuracy to the canon of a fairly well fleshed out and documented universe? Do you like character development that rises above B-grade movie tropes? Do you find blunt multicultural recasting for the sake of awkward forced multicultural injection, shock value, virtue signalling annoying? Do you like epic battles between empires fought between more than 10 people? Do you like timelines to be somewhat realistic?
  • 2y ago
• HenryBemis 2y ago
  I got a friend who is a proper 40k guy (paints, mini-dolls, the lot)(I call them mini-dolls instead of figures or figurines to piss him off, and it works!!!). He was initially excited to see "Superman" being involved, but now he also fears that this would turn to a shitshow. Worse case it tanks, Amazon has yet another TV failure, and the fans continue to enjoy their mini-dolls and pretend-battles.
  • LanceH 2y ago
    There is an expectation in the community that Games Workshop will only be concerned with the money and ownership of the property (for the money). They don't play well with others. They seem unconcerned about their customers in general. It's an abusive and expensive relationship. It's like an old school company that has no clue about inventory management, but they're in the 21st century now. They can have a million preorders for things which are mass produced from molds, and they can't manage to deliver them. Or books. Instead, any limited run ends up in the hands of scalpers. Now they move into the entertainment industry. What are we to expect there? It's a notoriously difficult industry to operate in. They have to deal with Amazon and whoever is producing, but can they leave their hands off something long enough to let it get made? I have serious doubts. They will meddle. I assume Amazon is negotiating to guarantee some level of control. I think the best hope for any good content will continue to be fan create videos.
• gradus_ad 2y ago
  Right, it's so simple to make a good Bond film once you accept that you need to give the people what they want, people here being actual Bond fans (not "society") and what they want being classic male escapist fantasy. This push to "modernize" Bond is regressive once you realize male desire has not changed and thus there is nothing to modernize. Depictions of a cool spy dude getting beautiful women to fall for him is not "sexist" and not in need of modernization. More generally the "modernization" angle is all about making the films which appeal to both men and women, which is a losing proposition for Bond which is fundamentally a franchise for men. You are always going to create a more compelling piece of content by tailoring it to a specific group, and the vast gulf in the sorts of content men and women tend to enjoy (generalization of course with many exceptions, but generally true nonetheless) means any bridge spanning that gap will be flimsy and weak.
  • formerly_proven 2y ago
    Bond could be bi.
    • LordDragonfang 2y ago
      While I think this misses the above poster's point (Bond has always been a masculine-in-a-heterosexual-way fantasy, and going against that would alienate a majority of his core audience) it would be interesting to have a Jack Harkness type of Bond.
    • jjgreen 2y ago
      Bond is bi https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-this-is-the-first-time-assumption-possibility-and-bisexuality-in-bond https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-thi...
      • 3pt14159 2y ago
        The post doesn’t definitively answer whether Bond is bisexual but argues for the importance of acknowledging the possibility. It highlights how the franchise’s ambiguity opens the door for diverse interpretations, inviting viewers to see Bond through their own lenses and experiences. Personally, I don't think Bond is bi.
• paxys 2y ago
  > I feel like I should duck and cover after saying this For stating the most popular opinion on the internet?
• shmerl 2y ago
  Soundtrack in Rings of Power is very good. I liked the show overall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7oaZxdAMzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7oaZxdAMzI What complaints did you have about the story? Fallout turned out pretty good. I wish they wouldn't have cancelled The Expanse, it was a good show.
• stuaxo 2y ago
  A lot of the stuff on Prime is absolute dross.
• duxup 2y ago
  >after seeing what Amazon did to Lord of the Rings I don't understand how streaming services with huge budgets are so constantly bad when it comes to writing. I found the Amazon Lord of the Rings series just empty and I quit on it, something I couldn't imagine doing. The dialogue was simply dreadful to listen to. How is it they so regularly skimp on the creative side of things and while they might have nice effects the content still seems so woefully unpolished/amateurish in other ways?
  • huskyr 2y ago
    Being good in selling stuff and running servers doesn't mean you are automatically great at producing movies and television series, even if you have a lot of money.
  • kevinventullo 2y ago
    Because good creativity is somewhat orthogonal to money after a certain level. Peter Jackson didn’t make the greatest films of my childhood because he thought it would make him a lot of money. It was the inverse: he had to convince other people they would make money in order to access the resources required to make the greatest films of my childhood.
    • LeifCarrotson 2y ago
      It's a continuous vector transformation: Initially, they're correlated and pointed in the same direction - do better work, get better pay. At some point, they become orthogonal - they're just collecting a paycheck, the content has to exist but its content doesn't matter. I do feel that there's a point beyond that at which they're inversely correlated: To navigate the power structures and economics at the top, you have to prioritize money and politics above art. It's the same reason politics are broken: Local township boards can be just people who want to help their neighbors, at the middle levels in state and city posts you have to be good at fundraising and advertising but it's not all-consuming, but to win big races you have to be ruthless, because if you aren't, someone more ruthless than you will win.
    • s1artibartfast 2y ago
• pjerem 2y ago
  Oh I’m not afraid at all that they own the Stargate license.