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They say there are two kinds of pilots: those who have landed gear up, and those who will. I’ve seen it happen with small planes three times. It should be quit

They say there are two kinds of pilots: those who have landed gear up, and those who will. I’ve seen it happen with small planes three times. It should be quite rare on airliners due to having two pilots and good warning systems. It’s plausible that the pilot would forget, but both of them forgetting and never noticing the plane screaming at them is unlikely.

Eavolution 2y ago
It has happened before due to another higher priority warning suppressing the "too low, gear" warning, so if there's a lot going on already including other warnings, it's not inconceivable that it was overlooked and the plane didn't issue a warning depending on the circumstances.
verelo 2y ago
I want to agree but it has happened before, and with the stress of some other failure it’s not going to be impossible…but it should be super rare.
- wat10000 2y ago
  It’s definitely not impossible. Pilots can get fixated. “That noise is so annoying! Never mind, gotta finish this landing.” It’s rare enough that I think it’s not the way to bet here, and there was probably another problem. But we’ll have to wait for more info to know for sure.
likeabatterycar 2y ago
> It’s plausible that the pilot would forget, but both of them forgetting and never noticing Not drawing premature conclusions here without evidence, but Asian airlines and aviation culture have a documented history of the co-pilot not questioning fatal actions by the captain in order to save face.
buildsjets 2y ago
I know someone who had a no gear low-approach and prop strike, pulled up, got the gear down, and landed straight ahead. Not sure what to call that one, but I bet that pilot won’t do it again.
jdietrich 2y ago
It's very easy to miss one alarm if there are several others going off simultaneously, which is highly likely if you've lost an engine due to a bird strike. Even if you hear or see the gear warning, you might be too cognitively overloaded to acknowledge and act on it.
- weaksauce 2y ago
  the aviation term(probably others) for it is task saturation and loss of situational awareness.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    Back in the day, there was a third crew member who was primarily tasked with navigation and monitoring systems. Airlines decided it would be cheaper to cut that position and here we are.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > Airlines decided it would be cheaper to cut that position and here we are. It's not that easy tbh - the advent of digital monitoring systems, fly-by-wire and glass cockpits plainly eliminated the need for it. On the other hand EASA is pushing for research into single-pilot operations [1]... now that is nuts. [1] https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/research-projects/emco-sipo-extended-minimum-crew-operations-single-pilot-operations-safety-risk https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/research-projects/emco-sipo-ex...
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      "here we are." Here where precisely? Civil aviation is extremely safe in 2024, and this crash made worldwide news precisely because crashes are now very rare in the developed world. If you demand 100 per cent safety, you are bound to be disappointed forever. Not even walking is 100 per cent safe.
    - AYBABTME 2y ago
      Manufacturers made planes that didn't need it, making their plane's TOC more attractive.
oefrha 2y ago
> quite rare This right here is literally a super rare incident — hull loss + everyone-2 killed. Having read quite a few Admiral Cloudberg[1] posts, task saturation seems fairly common among fatal incidents IIRC. [1] https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/ https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/

Eavolution 2y ago

It has happened before due to another higher priority warning suppressing the "too low, gear" warning, so if there's a lot going on already including other warnings, it's not inconceivable that it was overlooked and the plane didn't issue a warning depending on the circumstances.

verelo 2y ago

I want to agree but it has happened before, and with the stress of some other failure it’s not going to be impossible…but it should be super rare.

wat10000 2y ago
It’s definitely not impossible. Pilots can get fixated. “That noise is so annoying! Never mind, gotta finish this landing.” It’s rare enough that I think it’s not the way to bet here, and there was probably another problem. But we’ll have to wait for more info to know for sure.

likeabatterycar 2y ago

> It’s plausible that the pilot would forget, but both of them forgetting and never noticing Not drawing premature conclusions here without evidence, but Asian airlines and aviation culture have a documented history of the co-pilot not questioning fatal actions by the captain in order to save face.

buildsjets 2y ago

I know someone who had a no gear low-approach and prop strike, pulled up, got the gear down, and landed straight ahead. Not sure what to call that one, but I bet that pilot won’t do it again.

jdietrich 2y ago

It's very easy to miss one alarm if there are several others going off simultaneously, which is highly likely if you've lost an engine due to a bird strike. Even if you hear or see the gear warning, you might be too cognitively overloaded to acknowledge and act on it.

weaksauce 2y ago
the aviation term(probably others) for it is task saturation and loss of situational awareness.
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  Back in the day, there was a third crew member who was primarily tasked with navigation and monitoring systems. Airlines decided it would be cheaper to cut that position and here we are.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Airlines decided it would be cheaper to cut that position and here we are. It's not that easy tbh - the advent of digital monitoring systems, fly-by-wire and glass cockpits plainly eliminated the need for it. On the other hand EASA is pushing for research into single-pilot operations [1]... now that is nuts. [1] https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/research-projects/emco-sipo-extended-minimum-crew-operations-single-pilot-operations-safety-risk https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/research-projects/emco-sipo-ex...
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    "here we are." Here where precisely? Civil aviation is extremely safe in 2024, and this crash made worldwide news precisely because crashes are now very rare in the developed world. If you demand 100 per cent safety, you are bound to be disappointed forever. Not even walking is 100 per cent safe.
  - AYBABTME 2y ago
    Manufacturers made planes that didn't need it, making their plane's TOC more attractive.

oefrha 2y ago

> quite rare This right here is literally a super rare incident — hull loss + everyone-2 killed. Having read quite a few Admiral Cloudberg[1] posts, task saturation seems fairly common among fatal incidents IIRC. [1] https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/ https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/