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The article doesn't mention it, but there are videos [1] on the internet where the landing gear is clearly missing / not open. Some sources report that the land
by denysvitali 2y ago
The article doesn't mention it, but there are videos [1] on the internet where the landing gear is clearly missing / not open. Some sources report that the landing gear broke because of an impact with some birds.
[1]: https://x.com/BNONews/status/1873174704720425440 https://x.com/BNONews/status/1873174704720425440
- paxys 2y ago> landing gear broke because of an impact with some birds. That seems...improbable.
- denysvitali 2y agoYep, same thought - although I'm not an aviation expert. Some people think the pilot "forgot" to deploy the landing gear - which seems very unrealistic too. I guess it's best to wait for an official investigation
- fransje26 2y ago> Some people think the pilot "forgot" to deploy the landing gear - which seems very unrealistic too. No, it happens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airlines_Flight_8303 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airli...
- verelo 2y agoShockingly common in civilian aviation, it’s actually one of the most common causes for accidents. Not sure about commercial but it was not uncommon in the military in the 50s.
- AYBABTME 2y agoSeems quasi-impossible on a commercial airliner. This thing is going to beep and alert like hell about the landing gears being up. The most likely cause is a complex series of event that led to the landing gears not coming down. Landing gears have multiple redundancies so this is predictably going to be an unfortunately very informative investigation for the aviation sector.
- sio8ohPi 2y agoIt has happened before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airlines_Flight_8303 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airline...
- cjbprime 2y agoIf your engine had a bird strike than the system is already beeping and alerting like hell.
- AYBABTME 2y agoThe more likely scenario to me is that they attempted a go-around after the bird strike and failed, leading them to land with gears up, no flaps, at high speed.
- wis 2y agoNot an aviation expert or enthusiast, but I'd imagine in a commercial airliner if the gear was not deployed and the pilot was trying to land, at a certain point the plane would start yelling at the crew something like "NO GEAR" "NO GEAR" "NO GEAR (deployed)" So I don't think a pilot can just "forget" to deploy the landing gear in a commercial airliner.
- fransje26 2y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airlines_Flight_8303 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airli...
- selimthegrim 2y agoTOO LOW GEAR
- snypher 2y agoI think the 777 landing gear warning is based on flap position, eg flaps 0 you won't get a warning, but you will probably get a GPWS configuration warning instead!
- aaronmdjones 2y ago> I think the 777 landing gear warning is based on flap position It isn't. If you're within a thousand feet of terrain, a runway is nearby, and you're at an approach for landing speed, it blares "TOO LOW, GEAR" in the cockpit over and over again. If you're going faster than approach for landing speed or there is no runway, it instead blares "TOO LOW, TERRAIN". Likewise if you deploy more than flaps 20 without the gear extended (regardless of your height above terrain or the presence of any runway), you get a master warning and "CONFIG GEAR" in red on the EICAS.
- buildsjets 2y agoYoutube is full of examples pilots landing gear up, with the gear-up warning system clearly blaring in the background. https://youtu.be/5McECUtM8fw?si=DwasT3T_9vHxLczn https://youtu.be/5McECUtM8fw?si=DwasT3T_9vHxLczn This does not only happen to little propeller airplanes. Heres an Airbus A320 where the pilot managed to land gear up despite the presence of all kinds of safeguards and automation. https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/pia-a320-crews-fatal-landing-gear-error-occurred-during-badly-managed-approach/157129.article https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/pia-a320-crews-fatal-lan... Humans are funny animals.
- wat10000 2y agoThey say there are two kinds of pilots: those who have landed gear up, and those who will. I’ve seen it happen with small planes three times. It should be quite rare on airliners due to having two pilots and good warning systems. It’s plausible that the pilot would forget, but both of them forgetting and never noticing the plane screaming at them is unlikely.
- Eavolution 2y agoIt has happened before due to another higher priority warning suppressing the "too low, gear" warning, so if there's a lot going on already including other warnings, it's not inconceivable that it was overlooked and the plane didn't issue a warning depending on the circumstances.
- verelo 2y agoI want to agree but it has happened before, and with the stress of some other failure it’s not going to be impossible…but it should be super rare.
- wat10000 2y agoIt’s definitely not impossible. Pilots can get fixated. “That noise is so annoying! Never mind, gotta finish this landing.” It’s rare enough that I think it’s not the way to bet here, and there was probably another problem. But we’ll have to wait for more info to know for sure.
- likeabatterycar 2y ago> It’s plausible that the pilot would forget, but both of them forgetting and never noticing Not drawing premature conclusions here without evidence, but Asian airlines and aviation culture have a documented history of the co-pilot not questioning fatal actions by the captain in order to save face.
- buildsjets 2y agoI know someone who had a no gear low-approach and prop strike, pulled up, got the gear down, and landed straight ahead. Not sure what to call that one, but I bet that pilot won’t do it again.
- Figs 2y agoIf the plane can tell it's super low the ground -- low enough to sound an alarm for it -- and that's a common mistake... why not just have the plane automatically deploy the landing gear?
- hansvm 2y agoDoing so complicates other hairy scenarios because of the increased hydraulic/power demands, reduced clearance, increased drag on the plane, worse handling, and the fact that in some emergencies you want a gear-up landing and would expect pilots to simply make the opposite error (forgetting about the gear being automatically deployed) some fraction of the time.
- Figs 2y agoHmm. Are those situations more likely than forgetting to put the gear down? (Serious question -- I don't know the answer, and I'm curious.)
- hansvm 2y agoI think so, and they're definitely more severe. Gear-up landings occur in something like 1/150k flights, and they're rarely fatal. Stalls happen in roughly 1/100k, near-stalls more frequently, and if unrecovered then they are almost always fatal. The one plane I know of with auto-retracting gear had a fatal stall because of the feature, so it's not exactly a theoretical argument, but there haven't been a lot of empirical studies.
- agubelu 2y agoYou're talking about GA flights, not commercial ones, right? I do not believe that a gear-up landing occurs once a day on average in commercial airliners.
- tekla 2y agoYou do not want auto gear down. There are situations where having the gear down might makes much much worse and you might not be able to be in a situation where you can bring them back up.
- hackernewds 2y agothis is why there are 2 pilots? doesn't add up
- fransje26 2y agoMore pilots doesn't necessarily help.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_1951
- andsoitis 2y ago> although I'm not an aviation expert In this case, you need to be an aviation and an avian expert.
- yardstick 2y agoWith the engine issue 1km out, seems plausible the pilot forgot while dealing with that issue.
- whatsupdog 2y ago[flagged]
- zzleeper 2y agoIt's SK. Pilots are just ex air force guys, all Korean ethnicity
- lifthrasiir 2y agoThat seems to be lost in translation. In my understanding of breaking news, some engine (not a landing gear) was broken due to the bird strike so the plane went around but landed without landing gears down.
- denysvitali 2y agoYes, after reading a bit more sources it looks like one of the engines failed 1km before landing. Not sure on why the landing gear wasn't deployed though.
- daedrdev 2y agoFrom what I read it's possible for a bird strike to disrupt hydraulics. However there were probably a few additional engineering or pilot errors because that should not prevent a plane from putting down its landing gear, and a lack of landing gear should not prevent the plane from slowing down enough to not crash. Its cases like these where I think the lining up of Swiss chesse model for failure makes a lot of sense
- wkat4242 2y agoA bird strike in one engine could disrupt hydraulics yes but not all three circuits. It's weird. I'm sure there's more to this story. Also the landing gear can be extended though gravity even without hydraulic pressure.
- weaksauce 2y agoit is quite improbable. they can deploy landing gears using gravity so unless the birds killed that system(they can't) it was probably pilot error. just like in pakistan in 2020 that destroyed the engines so they couldn't perform the go around and they crashed.
- seoulbigchris 2y agoOne report I read here (I'm in South Korea) said the gear was down for the first aborted attempt and were then retracted for the go-around. I can't remember where I read that, however.
- hindsightbias 2y agoLooking at google maps it’s not really clear why having a wall at the end of your runway is necessary. But 9100’ isn’t super short.
- Mountain_Skies 2y agoTwo possibilities come to mind. The first is that it's South Korea so airports are military assets that need to be secure. The other is that it's meant to protect the road and hotel south of the end of the runway from aircraft overshooting the end but that was intended for much lower speed collisions.
- jarsin 2y agoPeople survived that? Looks like a giant ball of fire engulphed the entire plane as it smacked into a wall going 100+ mph.
- whimsicalism 2y agonypost article i saw said two people confirmed alive
- cjbprime 2y agoTwo people survived it (or at least, they have survived it so far) by being at the tail of the plane as it separated on impact and avoided the fireball, I imagine.
- 1659447091 2y agoThe AP article[0] list the survivors as crew members(flight attendants). By looking at the main pic in the article with only the tail section as looking anything like it was once a plane, I am guessing they were saved from the brunt of it by the back galley wall > "Emergency workers pulled out two people, both crew members, to safety, and local health officials said they remain conscious." [0] https://apnews.com/article/south-korea-plane-fire-68da9b0bd5196feed6e7d2db849f461a https://apnews.com/article/south-korea-plane-fire-68da9b0bd5...
- kumarvvr 2y agoLooks like back and front landing gear are not deployed. Highly unlikely for that to happen due to a bird hit.
- fransje26 2y agoAgreed. Landing gears can be gravity-operated when hydraulics are out.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]