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> The hi-tech equipment on board was abnormal for a merchant ship and consumed more power from the ship’s generator, leading to repeated blackouts, a source fam

• reactordev 2y ago
  Ships are often balanced between providing power and consuming it. Excess power gen is wasted fuel. Excess power draw is a blackout so it’s very typical of a ships captain or owner to max out power consumption while minimizing power generation. Its a cost index. I do this on my own sailboat with a solar power source and battery setup.
  • applied_heat 2y ago
    Diesel generators simply use less fuel if there is less load than the maximum.
    • GenerocUsername 2y ago
      But it's not perfectly linear, and as should get bigger, the incentive to optimize grows
    • bluGill 2y ago
      Not exactly. A diesel engine uses less fuel at 80% load than 50%. At maximum load it uses the most fuel but in general as load increases the engine gets more efficient and so the calculations are weird. Note that generators need to run at constant rpm to provide the correct ac frequency. Your car has gears so that it can run at lower rpm at low loads and so you won't see the same effect.
      • giantrobot 2y ago
        An independent diesel generator could have been loaded onto the ship as easily as the spy equipment. It was a tanker, there was plenty of room for a genset and its own fuel. Then the ship's power plant wouldn't be taxed at all.
        • bluGill 2y ago
          Generally the people ordering radios don't think about that. They are used to land where you have more power to the building than you could possibly use.
        • reactordev 2y ago
          Then you have radio equipment in addition to an independent diesel generator and fuel to explain… Yes it was a tanker. The bigger the ship doesn’t mean it has more people or more power generation like a cruise ship. A tanker has a crew of 4 plus captain, maybe?
          • giantrobot 2y ago
            You've got the spying equipment to explain if boarded. An extra generator is hardly a concern. If anything an auxiliary generator can be explained as a backup/replacement for the ship's mandated backup generator.
    • mensetmanusman 2y ago
      Less fuel less efficiently
  • slow_typist 2y ago
    There are many parts on a ship of that size which need power and are critical for safety. That is not comparable to leisure craft.
    • watt 2y ago
      Thank you for your insight. Hard to believe nobody else thought of it before.
      • Normal_gaussian 2y ago
        Whilst basic, its a critical and valid point. It is being made on a forum where shipping, ships, and related engineering issues are not well known (at all). It does lead to questions about how backup and failover power work on large ships. Secondary generation? Central batteries? Per device battery failover?
        • pas 2y ago
          Batteries, yes. And there's an emergency generator that runs on diesel (big ships run on "bunker oil") which can be started with batteries or manually. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY (this one with a hydraulic hand pump) https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-ships/ https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-s...
• ein0p 2y ago
  I'm having a hard time believing that "a few suitcases" of equipment would strain the generator of a large ship. There's also no way _three_ countries (one of which is a member of NATO, further straining credibility of the article) would be using the same super secret spy equipment.
  • 4ndrewl 2y ago
    Are you having a hard time believing this _because_ of your experience in such maritime matters or _despite_ of it?
  • asdff 2y ago
    The article said “huge portable suitcases” which in my mind went to those giant rock concert equipment suitcases with caster wheels. And then the article is talking about how these ships are ancient and in poor repair. The power was probably going on and off long before they overloaded it.
    • AYBABTME 2y ago
      But 20y isn't ancient, as far as I can tell?
      • dietr1ch 2y ago
        I guess it's long enough for poor maintenance to let salty water do its thing. AFAIK even cars sent across the Pacific show damage when they arrive and special care is put to coat them.
        • postalrat 2y ago
          No. It's a clear lie.
    • martin8412 2y ago
      They're called flight cases :)
  • 2y ago
• codezero 2y ago
  Because they’ve been getting away with it unchecked for decades.
• magicalhippo 2y ago
  > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? That part seemed odd to me too. Spy folks aren't the ones conducting sabotage? If one division has installed apy equipment then surely they don't want that fact plastered all over documents, so perhaps the sabotage guys just saw a suitable ship in the harbor and presuaded/replaced the crew? Doesn't look good either way though.
  • clort 2y ago
    The way I read it, this is reportage from a person who worked with the ship about things which happened some months ago. There is nothing to say this equipment was still on board. > They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge
    • magicalhippo 2y ago
      Good catch, missed that bit.
• Terr_ 2y ago
  > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? Perhaps it wasn't brazen sabotage, but incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines? Or conflicting agendas trickling down to the same ship, where the left-hand of "go cause some mayhem" didn't know what the right-hand of "collect signals intelligence" was already doing with that asset.
  • fi358 2y ago
    I don't think it was incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines. It severed 4 data data cables and electricity cable called Estlink 2. If it hadn't been stopped, it would have severed also Estlink 1 within half and hour later perhaps also Balticconnector gas pipe. About year ago Balticconnector gas pipe was already damaged by a Chinese ship, which had been dragging the anchor for long time in a very suspicious manner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector And again in August several data cables were severed by a Chinese ship. According to one analysis, that time they may have dragged the anchor for 400 kilometers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 BTW, Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The global internet is powered by vast undersea cables. But they're vulnerable. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-cables-intl-hnk/ https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-ca... Ukraine war: The Russian ships accused of North Sea sabotage https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action...
    • cinntaile 2y ago
      > Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The cable positions are public info, they don't need to spend time finding out where they are.
      • fi358 2y ago
        Is the exact positions public info or is it just crude positions? BTW, if the exact cable positions is public info, where is it available?
• ajuc 2y ago
  Why not? Let me remind you the Russian capital ship of the Black Sea fleet during this war had most of it's self-defense systems inactive and half of them broken and was destroyed with 2 missiles. And the only Russian carrier - Kuznetsov - is famous for sailing everywhere with tug boats in escort because its engines are broken more often than working :) Russian fleet's second name is "comically inept".
  • cpursley 2y ago
    Carriers are great at projecting power against poor people but sitting ducks against a near peer. And you probably know about the UKs recent propulsion system boondoggle… Anyways, they just launched this very potent sub yesterday as well as several other hypersonic carrying boats this year (4 subs, 7 surface ships - all fake according to Reddit): - https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fifth-yasen-m-class-nuclear-submarine-arkhangelsk/ https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fif...
    • ajuc 2y ago
      Oh they are always great in the press releases :) And it's not like the ships are badly designed. The Kuznetsov sister ship that was a casino for a while and now is Chinese works perfectly well. The problem with Russian navy is lack of maintenance, total disregard of safety and procedures, 0 fucks given about human life, uneducated, drunken crews and widespread corruption. I recommend reading about K-429 - a nuclear submarine that sunk not once but twice. First time because it was ordered to do exercises while the hull was in maintenance. Despite protests of the crew. Second time in dock during repairs after it got recovered. Worker negligence apparently. Fun fact - it's not the only Russian nuclear submarine that participated in 2 disasters.
      • cpursley 2y ago
        Where do you think those big missile barrages are coming from - Black Sea dolphins? You clearly spend too much time on reddit - sure, their carrier, Mosvka and that sub were ancient. But their recent boats are capable and pack a lot of offensive punch. One of their new corvettes could probably disable a carrier battle group. Only fools and immature people play the "the other side is incompetent and has shitty gear" game. I can assure you, the Pentagon and other Western militaries take it all very seriously.
• rasz 2y ago
  When you are evil as F the brightest minds tend to disappear leaving you with yes men and idiots. As Ukrainians eloquently put it way back in 2022: "We are very lucky they're so fucking stupid" https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_lucky_theyre_so_fucking_stupid/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_l... In the year of our lord 2024 russians are assaulting using Mad Max modified Ladas and push bikes, its no longer a meme! USSR stocks of armor are finally running out. 27 Oct 2024 'THE ARMOR RAN OUT - THEY WENT IN PICK-UPS. They reach the trenches and the assault ends.' - Combat group K-2 54th brigade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 A Russian Assault Group Riding In Pickup Trucks And Flying The Soviet Flag Got ‘Special Attention’ From Ukrainian Forces https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-assault-group-riding-in-pickup-trucks-and-flying-the-soviet-flag-got-special-attention-from-ukrainian-forces/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-a...
  • amelius 2y ago
    They still have Mach 5 rockets that the US cannot defend against.
    • dralley 2y ago
      Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5. Kinzhal and Zircon have been at least semi-reliably shot down. Iskander is very reliablly shot down. The main issue is that Ukraine just doesn't have enough Patriot batteries to defend the whole country, so the Russians stopped shooting where the air defense is. They also use a bunch of S-300s as ballistic missiles (a secondary capability to their primary role as air defense) but primarily against cities that don't have air defense. But they're too inaccurate and inexpensive for the Ukrainians to bother attempting to intercept even if they had enough of the appropriate air defenses.
      • mountainstar 2y ago
        "Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5." Keep lying lol
• themgt 2y ago
  The article is terribly written. It ends with: The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis. ... They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge, but other devices were placed on another related tanker, Swiftsea Rider. What seems implied is that the ship was previously used for spying back in June, then the spy equipment was offloaded from the ship and it was later repurposed to cut the cables.
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• newsclues 2y ago
  It’s not a spy ship. It’s a ship, that was used for spying. Not a special ship built for spying. So it’s just an asset at sea that can be covertly used and disposed if discovered. It’s a burner, something to use and discard when it’s no longer useful. The spy gear is on another ship and the anchor trick can be played again
• Hilift 2y ago
  Russia has many of these types of boats. They are inexpensive. The "equipment" is portable in suitcases. There is a lot of marine traffic in the Baltic Sea. They may have thought they could do it during the holidays and move the equipment to another ship nearby without detection. Or, a Russian port is very close, perhaps they thought they could take off and make it to Russian waters before Finland intercepted them. Check out the route on marinetraffic.com. The cable is between Helsinki and Tallinn, St. Petersburg Russia (the "destination") is about 200 km away to the east.
• kruxigt 2y ago
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• simonh 2y ago
  I cite in evidence of Russian ineptness the entire history of their invasion of Ukraine. Given their vast and extensive advantages at the beginning of the invasion, if they were even vaguely competent they really would have been holding a parade in Kyiv within a few months. A competent military wouldn’t have lost their flagship, or let Ukraine counter-invade taking thousands of square kilometres of Russian territory. A competent regime wouldn’t have dismissed US warnings of an imminent terrorist attack on a specific music venue in Moscow and just let it happen. Loading up a tanker with power hungry kit it’s not able to properly support without discussing the idea with the crew, while threatening the crew if they don’t keep quiet, is par for the course.
  • llamaimperative 2y ago
    It extends for literal centuries before the current Ukraine debacle. The country has been a mindless lumbering brute for most of history.
  • ANewFormation 2y ago
    Before the invasion Ukraine had a total military force (including reserves) of 1.2 million backed by sizable numbers of highly motivated and heavily armed 'nationalist' forces. Since 2014 the West had been gradually arming Ukraine and various cities like Bakhmut were essentially fortified citadels enabling a defensive force to pose extreme resistance. There was 0 chance Ukraine was going to just flop over. Iraq and Afghanistan were humble villages by contrast - one which we lost to, and the other which our 'victory' amounted to bombing the government then hiding out in tiny little ultra fortified 'green zones' while waving a victory flag. In both cases with the wars dragged on for decades. Now imagine if Russia had decided to jump in one of those invasions and start shipping hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons to them, providing intelligence, and so on. Russia obviously just thought they were ambushing Ukraine and could get some agreement for them to not join NATO without a real war. Then the West decided to get involved, similarly thinking they were ambushing Russia and that the first sight of HIMARS or a Panther tank would send the Russian army scattering. Everybody was wrong, so we got a real war that nobody wanted.
    • 2y ago
• dspillett 2y ago
  > but this is comically inept if true Comically inept does sometimes seem to be the country's MO, due to corruption and miscommunication (the latter often deliberate to hide the former) between the various levels of control. People get away with it for quite some time, until a mistake/accident too big to successfully cover up occurs or there is other reason for an audit from above, at which point some are removed from their positions (often to particularly unpleasant penal arrangements, or perhaps being moved on via a defenestration "accident", as an example to others) and things improve for a while. This is often the case in other autocratic or anocratic countries too, but it seems particularly endemic in Russia (perhaps due to its wide geographic spread?). > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? As others have said, other reasons of the article are that the ship has recently been used as a ship for spying, but equipment relating to that was not present at the time of the sabotage mission it was intercepted during.
  • panarky 2y ago
    When dissidents and journalists "fall out of windows", and when enemies of the state drink polonium tea, the obviousness isn't due to comic ineptness. It's obvious for a reason. They want the world to know. The obviousness isn't ineptness, it's a brazen display of power.
    • dspillett 2y ago
      I'm not suggesting the ineptness is present at the top or in key organs of the system, particularly parts responsible for enforcement and espionage. It naturally forms in the wider system through layers of control with people at each point doing the minimum required (well, the minimum they think that they can get away with) and creaming off any remaining resources. The obviousness of reactions from the near top when enacted, against those that are too close to failures or deliberately act against the system, while often difficult to directly link to the top, yes, is very deliberate, and generally not ineptly executed. In fact the individuals further down are often not really inept: they are can very good at doing what must be done with what little resource filters down while benefiting from what they can cream off, passing actual responsibility downwards, and keeping apparent responsibility for themselves (and their circles) when things go well. The comical ineptness is an emergent behaviour of the overall system that results from these behaviours. This is in stark contrast to some other regimes, for instance the UK under BoJo the Clown and his next couple of replacements where the ineptitude was at times frighteningly and obviously present at and near the top, or over the longer term things like the post office scandal & cover-up which has dragged on for so long through an apparent endemic immorality rather than localised manipulation at each level.
• ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
  You need to read both Red Notice, and Freezing Order by Bill Browder. Truly eye opening, and in line with this type of thing.
  • user432678 2y ago
    Got me interested, if you had time only for one, which one of two would you recommend?
• lenkite 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • nobunaga 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • lenkite 2y ago
      Aaah..the usual brain-dead and brain-washed response. Eyerolling and tiresome quips about Putin and Moscow. Never been to Moscow nor Russia and I don't have their Visa, so not sure how I can even "return" to it.
      • nobunaga 2y ago
        Are you referring to your statement about how russia is innocent and is being targeted for no reason since they never invaded another country and there are many sources for their attempts at sabotage and even assasinations, as braindead? Yes, you are indeed speaking braindead comments. Just re-read what you wrote, and then think about the events of the last 2 years. Try harder comrad.
        • lenkite 2y ago
          No such statements/claims were made. Congratulations sir! You have won an award at the "Strawman Argument". Just re-read what you wrote and then refresh your knowledge of basic logical fallacies. Try harder at reading comprehension.
  • phatfish 2y ago
    Polite concern, check. Um, it's the US causing all the problems ACTUALLY, check. Lost faith in western media, check. It can't be Russia because it doesn't make sense guys! Check. "Time will tell", check.
  • ttkk 2y ago
    [flagged]
• lm28469 2y ago
  > I'm not a Russia defender but this is comically inept if true. I mean it's the 1000+ day of the 3 day special military operation, we've seen Russians with ww2 era rifles and gear, ww2 era tanks, &c. Being inept is the only thing the Russian army seems to achieve consistently.
• sandworm101 2y ago
  Power on a ship isn't like power on land. It may be that this gear was all on one phase of the 3-phase generator output, which would make sense if this was radio equipment. Overloading a particular phase/circuit with unplanned-for equipment can quickly trip switches and other safety system, cascading into a blackout.
• belorn 2y ago
  The strategy of the shadow fleet has historically been about using disposable and cheap commercial ships for dual purpose of military and economical operations, with plausible deniability as a bonus. Ducktaping spy equipment onto barely operating merchant ships fits perfectly for this purpose. It is the peace time version of the merchant raider.