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I go back and forth on this. I still keep in touch with a bunch of high school and college friends. For better or worse those guys know "the real me" and the hi

by extr 2y ago

I go back and forth on this. I still keep in touch with a bunch of high school and college friends. For better or worse those guys know "the real me" and the history and relationships are impossible to replace. They all still live close together but I live far away - I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them. On the other hand, when I spend more than a few days straight with them, I realize that despite how deep our history goes, we've all changed. We don't share as many of the same hobbies/interests. My wife doesn't share a strong connection with them in the same way I do and doesn't have anything at all in common with their wives. I get it. Moving closer to them for the sake of my relationships would be a huge sacrifice for her. What's to be done?

williamtrask 2y ago
> What's to be done? Our society would need to re-think its norms around moving away in order to move upward, which runs into some pretty big philosophical ideas around geography, culture, and values. For technologists, this cultural movement is still in a bit of a philosophical stage, but it's starting to make its way into some early experiments. https://www.plurality.net/ https://www.plurality.net/ is probably the best written work on it so far.
- charlie0 2y ago
  Interesting, but this just a framework. Where are the actual implementations? Ie, the communities? I've been looking for networked states that aren't all in on living forever or obsessed with crypto and anarchism.
- extr 2y ago
  Not really the case in my situation. We moved to be closer to family (both sets of parents had coincidentally had relocated to the same area of the country late in life, but before we met). The choice between friends vs family complicates my situation. Love my family, but it's not the same as having peers in a similar stage of life.
- jimbokun 2y ago
  Remote work should make this much easier than before.
wffurr 2y ago
Nothing. Stay with your wife’s social circle, stay in touch with your old friends, and build community where you are with your family. Children are a fantastic icebreaker and way to meet people.
teruakohatu 2y ago
> I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them. How often do you think you would see them if you lived in the same city? If you see them twice a year, for a few days straight, I think you are doing really well and I am sure they appreciate the effort you make. Can you cut the difference and go camping once a year or every second year for a week or two as a family? So their kids and your kids get to know each other, and maybe your wife and theirs too.
- kyawzazaw 2y ago
  My father see his college and high schools friends in teashops almost everyday. They just sit, sometimes eat. All come and go. No long term planning. Just phone calls.
  - teruakohatu 2y ago
    Did you possibly reply to the wrong comment? If not: I don’t think it’s a realistic goal, at least in a typical Western country, for a person with a young family and a full time job to manage to meet up with friends, who are not co-workers, almost every day.
    - kyawzazaw 2y ago
      I intended to reply to you. Nope, my parents don't reside in a western country and they all have private businesses and we are relatively well-off. But even those who are not well-off or business owners will do this.
      - noisy_boy 2y ago
        It all depends on the type of circle. Even within the same city, given the same depth of relationships, distance and the location matter. In a busy asian city, being as little as 15kms apart could result in meeting much less often. In a US small town with excellent roads, little traffic and everyone having cars, the friction is much lesser. Time for friends is sacrificed first when you need to prioritize work/wife/children etc.
dgfitz 2y ago
I don’t know if it’ll help any, but I maintain a solid handful of group chats with friends of mine from years long past. I don’t have a social media pretense at all, and the “intimate” nature of a “raw” group chat has helped me, personally, keep in touch with people I otherwise wouldn’t have.
- roykent 2y ago
  This is good advise. And if you don’t have this, just be the one to initiate. About 7 years ago one of my college friends drunkenly made a slack group for us all. At the time we were about a decade out of college and have been friends since freshman year. The slack group has been going strong since. There are times where it goes quiet for a while, then one message will fire it back up. And it’s cool to see it evolve where now we talk about house projects, family things, etc. We also use it to coordinate times to hang out which e great since we live in different cities. I also have some WhatsApp groups from other periods of life, but just mentioning the Slack group because it’s something I wouldn’t have thought of and has really helped maintain our connection 20 years after we all met.
- throwaway6734 2y ago
  likewise. We have a signal group chat that we've slowly been adding new friends to. It's a fantastic way to stay in touch
pseudocomposer 2y ago
People you meet later in life - even much later, even when you have a wife and kids - can absolutely come to know “the real you.” (I might describe “closeness of relationships over time” as “asymptotic, with an upper limit” or at least “with diminishing returns,” if we want to get really math-y about something that is not really measurable.) But you have to be open to that, and it also requires a lot of social skills that are not really otherwise demanded (in fact, arguably discouraged) among, particularly, men in developer/software engineering roles. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t maintain relationships with school friends. But, especially if none of them are nearby, you owe it to yourself and your family to build a local community for yourself that’s on that same magnitude of closeness. It’s a process that takes 5-7 years (again, just making up numbers here - this depends on your personality, how far along you are learning social skills, and who’s in your community), but the best time to start is always now.
- antisthenes 2y ago
  > But you have to be open to that, and it also requires a lot of social skills that are not really otherwise demanded (in fact, arguably discouraged) among, particularly, men in developer/software engineering roles. More than anything, it requires lots of time. Time that busy adults don't have.
- gonzo789620 2y ago
  Can you elaborate on the social skills that aren't otherwise demanded? I can relate to this a bit, but I feel like I'm only starting to scratch the surface
  - bruleecakes 2y ago
    Not being competitive and one upping everyone, being ok with peoples flaws, being honest, being vulnerable, being dependable, not being selfish or self centered, being self reflective… some of these sound obvious but I’m in my 50s have uprooted many times and have always managed to make close friends. I do lament the trail of friends I’ve left around the world, but we are all very similar and scattered as well.
  - 2y ago
scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago
Move back, force your wife to only interact with your dudes’ wives. Shed individuality, kick back beers with the boyz. Reminisce only about the good old days. Bond over ritualized sports. Start families in sync so kids can be raised together. Forge new shared traditions, establish a rules based order of discipline and brotherhood. Protect the offspring from outsiders. To do this establish dominance over other families. Punish disobedience. Never leave the inner trusted circle. edit: not sure how heavy handed the Mad Max irony must be for the /s to register. edit2: Do not move back. Embrace change. Ask wife to steer all social life. Sever all ties with the men who have made all those awful career and family choices. Visit only sporadically, but offer resentful advice on how they could improve themselves. Leave with relief and conviction that you have changed into someone else, someone superior. Carefully select only the best qualified friends for family, based on consultations with wife. Expose children only to the appropriate sort of influence.
- Sn0wCoder 2y ago
  Hey @scyzoryk_xyz I laughed out loud and could understand the tongue in cheek sediment before the edits. When I was younger dreamed about becoming rich and buying a whole subdivision and moving my family and friends into the compound. Obviously, that was before I actually had a wife and children. Compromise is the only way relationships work with family and friends. Good thing is you have more than enough HN Karma to burn so don't worry about the down votes, most people will get ‘it’ and gave you an upvote to offset the ones who did not.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago
    Ended up with a karmic boost instead ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ Yeah I’ve made decisions to go back, but haven’t started a family. I’ve been curiously observing how much for those friends around me with kids friction against „society” is a whole thing.
    - hipjiveguy 2y ago
      Your commments are great, and made me lol, which is super rare - great insight, honestly... thanks But if you've never had kids, you're missing out on so much. This is just my experience, and is how I "grew up" from 20-35. I didn't want kids, but now love them so much, and as 55 year old man, with a 21 and 20 year old that still live with me, I'm doing so well, and have been blessed by them being in my life, and my wife who wanted kids more than I did, lol. I know you are probably aware of this, and it probably tears at you, in some way. I know it did for me. And your mission, if you choose to accept it is not to live life on your own terms, but on the terms of God (imho), your health, your wife, your kids (if you choose to have them), and ultimately in others, which once you perfect the previous, you will want to help others more than anyone else. Not everyone has to have children of course, and in many ways it'd be easier if you didn't, but it sounds to me like your seeking new paths, and this is a life changer, imho, and something that every generation before you did, to have you, and bring YOU to life. Good luck!
kyawzazaw 2y ago
New friends?
exitb 2y ago
> "the real me" I'm not sure the past you is the real you. People change and childhood friendships are mostly circumstantial. Would you befriend those people if you met them now? If not, than those relationships are kept by the power of nostalgia.
- dspillett 2y ago
  That varies with people. Some do genuinely feel that they have (and in many cases they genuinely have) hidden away part of themselves that they used to express in the past and want to express again, and in extreme cases this can be quite significant parts of their personality. For others all those past bits were things they only did to "fit in" and they are happy that they are not part of their current life. Most of us are somewhere between those two poles. For myself, I feel I have changed, mostly for the better, over the decades but that neither "current me" or the "past me(s)" are any more or less real.
james-bcn 2y ago
Do you think the "you" at highschool and college was "the real you"? Because that is definitely not the case for me. You grow older, you learn, you change views, you mature...
- globular-toast 2y ago
  Yeah, this is interesting. I have had several different, non-intersecting, groups of friends throughout my life. I think they all know a different me. Some know what I would currently consider the "real me": basically a geek who is into Emacs and science fiction. But other groups variously know me as a hippy, a party goer, a womaniser, a gym-going "real man" type etc. I think sometimes they are disappointed that I'm not those things any more.
- amonith 2y ago
  Exactly, this is the "peaked in high school" stereotype and it's not good.
- extr 2y ago
  Eh, maybe the "real me" wasn't the right choice of words. I just know these guys in a way that when I see them I inevitably fall into fits of laughter in about 5 minutes. I know they aren't going to ask me a bunch of bullshit about my job or how my life is going. They're not going to try to out-compete each other on hot takes about the political topic of the day. They're not going to try to impress me, or expect me to impress them. More likely they take the piss out of me. I can just relax.
Simon_O_Rourke 2y ago
> What's to be done? Write them the occasional birthday card, say hi when you're back in town and otherwise just go on with your life.
bluGill 2y ago
What is wrong with your situation? Make friends where you are. If you live close to your wife's family make friends with them. If there is something wrong with your current situation, then perhaps you and your wife need to talk this over. Maybe you need to move to get away from whatever is wrong. Are you old friends new hobbies/interests things that you could get into, and their wives someone your wife could become friends with - if so great: move back and renew your former connections as it will be easy to break in. If not maybe moving a long way to where both of you have no friends is the right answer so you can start over. Make sure you choose a place where want to join a local culture, not the same things you are trying to get away from.
- extr 2y ago
  Nothing is wrong. We moved to be closer to family which in retrospect was a great decision and one I'm still happy with. We don't have much of a social circle here outside of that, but we have kids < 2 so it's hard to get out too too much anyway.
Insanity 2y ago
I am in the same boat. I live in a different continent than my college friends, and see them about twice a year when I visit my home country. However, we fell into a routine of playing games together once a week (every sunday, same time, for about an hour). Which helps with feeling close even though I live far apart. That said, I also made new friends where I live now but I am definitely less close to them.
the_clarence 2y ago
Make new friends
mihaaly 2y ago
Like us: make friends in the new places too! More friends, more fun, richer life! And I am also sure this is not something I had to tell, people do this way all the time, you do this way too I am 100%.

by extr 2y ago

williamtrask 2y ago

> What's to be done? Our society would need to re-think its norms around moving away in order to move upward, which runs into some pretty big philosophical ideas around geography, culture, and values. For technologists, this cultural movement is still in a bit of a philosophical stage, but it's starting to make its way into some early experiments. https://www.plurality.net/ https://www.plurality.net/ is probably the best written work on it so far.

charlie0 2y ago
Interesting, but this just a framework. Where are the actual implementations? Ie, the communities? I've been looking for networked states that aren't all in on living forever or obsessed with crypto and anarchism.
extr 2y ago
Not really the case in my situation. We moved to be closer to family (both sets of parents had coincidentally had relocated to the same area of the country late in life, but before we met). The choice between friends vs family complicates my situation. Love my family, but it's not the same as having peers in a similar stage of life.
jimbokun 2y ago
Remote work should make this much easier than before.

wffurr 2y ago

Nothing. Stay with your wife’s social circle, stay in touch with your old friends, and build community where you are with your family. Children are a fantastic icebreaker and way to meet people.

teruakohatu 2y ago

> I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them. How often do you think you would see them if you lived in the same city? If you see them twice a year, for a few days straight, I think you are doing really well and I am sure they appreciate the effort you make. Can you cut the difference and go camping once a year or every second year for a week or two as a family? So their kids and your kids get to know each other, and maybe your wife and theirs too.

kyawzazaw 2y ago
My father see his college and high schools friends in teashops almost everyday. They just sit, sometimes eat. All come and go. No long term planning. Just phone calls.
- teruakohatu 2y ago
  Did you possibly reply to the wrong comment? If not: I don’t think it’s a realistic goal, at least in a typical Western country, for a person with a young family and a full time job to manage to meet up with friends, who are not co-workers, almost every day.
  - kyawzazaw 2y ago
    I intended to reply to you. Nope, my parents don't reside in a western country and they all have private businesses and we are relatively well-off. But even those who are not well-off or business owners will do this.
    - noisy_boy 2y ago
      It all depends on the type of circle. Even within the same city, given the same depth of relationships, distance and the location matter. In a busy asian city, being as little as 15kms apart could result in meeting much less often. In a US small town with excellent roads, little traffic and everyone having cars, the friction is much lesser. Time for friends is sacrificed first when you need to prioritize work/wife/children etc.

dgfitz 2y ago

I don’t know if it’ll help any, but I maintain a solid handful of group chats with friends of mine from years long past. I don’t have a social media pretense at all, and the “intimate” nature of a “raw” group chat has helped me, personally, keep in touch with people I otherwise wouldn’t have.

roykent 2y ago
This is good advise. And if you don’t have this, just be the one to initiate. About 7 years ago one of my college friends drunkenly made a slack group for us all. At the time we were about a decade out of college and have been friends since freshman year. The slack group has been going strong since. There are times where it goes quiet for a while, then one message will fire it back up. And it’s cool to see it evolve where now we talk about house projects, family things, etc. We also use it to coordinate times to hang out which e great since we live in different cities. I also have some WhatsApp groups from other periods of life, but just mentioning the Slack group because it’s something I wouldn’t have thought of and has really helped maintain our connection 20 years after we all met.
throwaway6734 2y ago
likewise. We have a signal group chat that we've slowly been adding new friends to. It's a fantastic way to stay in touch

pseudocomposer 2y ago

People you meet later in life - even much later, even when you have a wife and kids - can absolutely come to know “the real you.” (I might describe “closeness of relationships over time” as “asymptotic, with an upper limit” or at least “with diminishing returns,” if we want to get really math-y about something that is not really measurable.) But you have to be open to that, and it also requires a lot of social skills that are not really otherwise demanded (in fact, arguably discouraged) among, particularly, men in developer/software engineering roles. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t maintain relationships with school friends. But, especially if none of them are nearby, you owe it to yourself and your family to build a local community for yourself that’s on that same magnitude of closeness. It’s a process that takes 5-7 years (again, just making up numbers here - this depends on your personality, how far along you are learning social skills, and who’s in your community), but the best time to start is always now.

antisthenes 2y ago
> But you have to be open to that, and it also requires a lot of social skills that are not really otherwise demanded (in fact, arguably discouraged) among, particularly, men in developer/software engineering roles. More than anything, it requires lots of time. Time that busy adults don't have.
gonzo789620 2y ago
Can you elaborate on the social skills that aren't otherwise demanded? I can relate to this a bit, but I feel like I'm only starting to scratch the surface
- bruleecakes 2y ago
  Not being competitive and one upping everyone, being ok with peoples flaws, being honest, being vulnerable, being dependable, not being selfish or self centered, being self reflective… some of these sound obvious but I’m in my 50s have uprooted many times and have always managed to make close friends. I do lament the trail of friends I’ve left around the world, but we are all very similar and scattered as well.
- 2y ago

scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago

Move back, force your wife to only interact with your dudes’ wives. Shed individuality, kick back beers with the boyz. Reminisce only about the good old days. Bond over ritualized sports. Start families in sync so kids can be raised together. Forge new shared traditions, establish a rules based order of discipline and brotherhood. Protect the offspring from outsiders. To do this establish dominance over other families. Punish disobedience. Never leave the inner trusted circle. edit: not sure how heavy handed the Mad Max irony must be for the /s to register. edit2: Do not move back. Embrace change. Ask wife to steer all social life. Sever all ties with the men who have made all those awful career and family choices. Visit only sporadically, but offer resentful advice on how they could improve themselves. Leave with relief and conviction that you have changed into someone else, someone superior. Carefully select only the best qualified friends for family, based on consultations with wife. Expose children only to the appropriate sort of influence.

Sn0wCoder 2y ago
Hey @scyzoryk_xyz I laughed out loud and could understand the tongue in cheek sediment before the edits. When I was younger dreamed about becoming rich and buying a whole subdivision and moving my family and friends into the compound. Obviously, that was before I actually had a wife and children. Compromise is the only way relationships work with family and friends. Good thing is you have more than enough HN Karma to burn so don't worry about the down votes, most people will get ‘it’ and gave you an upvote to offset the ones who did not.
- scyzoryk_xyz 2y ago
  Ended up with a karmic boost instead ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ Yeah I’ve made decisions to go back, but haven’t started a family. I’ve been curiously observing how much for those friends around me with kids friction against „society” is a whole thing.
  - hipjiveguy 2y ago
    Your commments are great, and made me lol, which is super rare - great insight, honestly... thanks But if you've never had kids, you're missing out on so much. This is just my experience, and is how I "grew up" from 20-35. I didn't want kids, but now love them so much, and as 55 year old man, with a 21 and 20 year old that still live with me, I'm doing so well, and have been blessed by them being in my life, and my wife who wanted kids more than I did, lol. I know you are probably aware of this, and it probably tears at you, in some way. I know it did for me. And your mission, if you choose to accept it is not to live life on your own terms, but on the terms of God (imho), your health, your wife, your kids (if you choose to have them), and ultimately in others, which once you perfect the previous, you will want to help others more than anyone else. Not everyone has to have children of course, and in many ways it'd be easier if you didn't, but it sounds to me like your seeking new paths, and this is a life changer, imho, and something that every generation before you did, to have you, and bring YOU to life. Good luck!

kyawzazaw 2y ago

New friends?

exitb 2y ago

> "the real me" I'm not sure the past you is the real you. People change and childhood friendships are mostly circumstantial. Would you befriend those people if you met them now? If not, than those relationships are kept by the power of nostalgia.

dspillett 2y ago
That varies with people. Some do genuinely feel that they have (and in many cases they genuinely have) hidden away part of themselves that they used to express in the past and want to express again, and in extreme cases this can be quite significant parts of their personality. For others all those past bits were things they only did to "fit in" and they are happy that they are not part of their current life. Most of us are somewhere between those two poles. For myself, I feel I have changed, mostly for the better, over the decades but that neither "current me" or the "past me(s)" are any more or less real.

james-bcn 2y ago

Do you think the "you" at highschool and college was "the real you"? Because that is definitely not the case for me. You grow older, you learn, you change views, you mature...

globular-toast 2y ago
Yeah, this is interesting. I have had several different, non-intersecting, groups of friends throughout my life. I think they all know a different me. Some know what I would currently consider the "real me": basically a geek who is into Emacs and science fiction. But other groups variously know me as a hippy, a party goer, a womaniser, a gym-going "real man" type etc. I think sometimes they are disappointed that I'm not those things any more.
amonith 2y ago
Exactly, this is the "peaked in high school" stereotype and it's not good.
extr 2y ago
Eh, maybe the "real me" wasn't the right choice of words. I just know these guys in a way that when I see them I inevitably fall into fits of laughter in about 5 minutes. I know they aren't going to ask me a bunch of bullshit about my job or how my life is going. They're not going to try to out-compete each other on hot takes about the political topic of the day. They're not going to try to impress me, or expect me to impress them. More likely they take the piss out of me. I can just relax.

Simon_O_Rourke 2y ago

> What's to be done? Write them the occasional birthday card, say hi when you're back in town and otherwise just go on with your life.

bluGill 2y ago

What is wrong with your situation? Make friends where you are. If you live close to your wife's family make friends with them. If there is something wrong with your current situation, then perhaps you and your wife need to talk this over. Maybe you need to move to get away from whatever is wrong. Are you old friends new hobbies/interests things that you could get into, and their wives someone your wife could become friends with - if so great: move back and renew your former connections as it will be easy to break in. If not maybe moving a long way to where both of you have no friends is the right answer so you can start over. Make sure you choose a place where want to join a local culture, not the same things you are trying to get away from.

extr 2y ago
Nothing is wrong. We moved to be closer to family which in retrospect was a great decision and one I'm still happy with. We don't have much of a social circle here outside of that, but we have kids < 2 so it's hard to get out too too much anyway.

Insanity 2y ago

I am in the same boat. I live in a different continent than my college friends, and see them about twice a year when I visit my home country. However, we fell into a routine of playing games together once a week (every sunday, same time, for about an hour). Which helps with feeling close even though I live far apart. That said, I also made new friends where I live now but I am definitely less close to them.

the_clarence 2y ago

Make new friends

mihaaly 2y ago

Like us: make friends in the new places too! More friends, more fun, richer life! And I am also sure this is not something I had to tell, people do this way all the time, you do this way too I am 100%.