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Hey EU, maybe mandate an opt out for all vehicle telemetry? Then maybe the rest of the world will follow suit. I know, I know, I am kidding myself.
by RajT88 2y ago
Hey EU, maybe mandate an opt out for all vehicle telemetry?
Then maybe the rest of the world will follow suit.
I know, I know, I am kidding myself.
- hyhconito 2y agoOpt in you mean, like the cookie banners? Oh no that'll never happen because VW are a European company and the money is in fining US tech companies!
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoEuropean companies get fined the same as any other companies.
- hyhconito 2y agoWell within the constraints they set out which exclude a hell of a lot of European companies. (I am in Europe for reference, this is not an external perspective)
- 7bit 2y agoWhat constraints? And which companies are excluded by them?
- mtmail 2y agohttps://www.enforcementtracker.com/?insights https://www.enforcementtracker.com/?insights shows breakdown by country, type, industry sector. "Highest fines: individual" top 10 list is all international companies (Meta, Amazon, TikTok, LinkedIn, Uber) and those make the news. Smaller European companies hardly make the news.
- adolph 2y agoVW paid "$14.7 billion to settle civil charges in the United States" and was ordered "to pay a $2.8 billion criminal fine for 'rigging diesel-powered vehicles to cheat on government emissions tests'." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
- betaby 2y ago"Seems low" and "cost of doing business" - paraphrasing any thread about US company. Could also says "VW should be sued out of existence". Also I genuinely think those fines were low.
- RajT88 2y agoThe fact that it did not seem to stunt their growth speaks for itself: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/VWAGY/volkswagen-ag/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/VWAGY/volkswagen-a...
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoThe reason for all that telemetry is the legislation. How do you think they are going to implement the full “intelligent” speed assistant in 2027?
- wintermutestwin 2y agoMore like automated ticketing for speeding.
- mikedelfino 2y agoI’d love to see that implemented, yes, but it would be even better if all cars' speed were automatically limited to the speed limit of each road.
- vel0city 2y agoKnowing exactly which lane you're in and the actual speed limit of that particular lane can be tricky for an automated system, at least in any of the systems I've seen implemented. I've had cars with both automated speed limit sign readers, GPS+map databases, and more show me two different speed limits and neither one was actually correct for the lane I was in. This is a somewhat common occurrence on the highways around me.
- wcoenen 2y agoThat would risk unintended consequences. For example, suddenly slowing cars on the highway down to 30 kph because a small road with that speed limit runs right next to the highway.
- forgetfreeman 2y agoThis becomes a thing and I'll have a 25mph sign hanging off the back of my truck. I eagerly await starting a youtube channel of new cars losing their shit on jammed tailgating attempts.
- 2y ago
- magicalhippo 2y agoIt's opt-out on my Renault Megane e-Tech. It was a very clear prompt during initial setup, and it shows me a very unambiguous notification that it's enabled every time I start the car. If I click on that it takes me to the setting. edit: might even have been opt-in during initial setup, now that I think about it. I do recall it being a very deliberate thing during setup. Of course I'll have to trust that turning it off actually turns it off, no way for me to verify that. The reason I keep it on is because my SO is a bit absent minded to where she parks the car, and I value not having to run around in the streets trying to find it when I'm in a hurry over the potential privacy loss. edit: Renault was found[1][2] to be the "least problematic" with respect to privacy by Mozilla last year. [1]: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37443644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37443644
- amluto 2y agoApple knows how to allow one to find one’s devices without Apple knowing where they are. It’s not that hard.
- likeabatterycar 2y agoAckhually, it is that hard, unless your method relies on millions of your devices out in the wild acting as sensors in a mesh network, as Apple does.
- amluto 2y agoThat’s a much harder problem than VW would need to solve. Also, Find My substantially predates the Find My network and AirTags. There are very straightforward solutions, depending on the threat model. For example, the app could send VW a private key every day, and VW would send that key to the car. Then the car sends periodic location reports, encrypted to that key. VW can, upon request, send the report to the app, which decrypts it. But VW can’t decrypt the report itself, so they don’t know the location of the car. Also, it’s forward secure in the sense that a leak of VW’s database is entirely useless after a day.
- moffkalast 2y agoNah, make it illegal to collect any kind of identifiable data in the first place.
- sschueller 2y agoIt already is and this will go to EU courts.
- merb 2y agoVW do use opt-in. In fact it is so annoying that you get asked every time when you start your car. So basically every time your car start it says „do you want to use the profile connected with the vw service“ if you do not accept it than the car will be in a dumb mode. One of my coworkers was annoyed by it and „reset“ the car to use a non connected profile which does not do that. I’m a owner of a id.4 (or rather a user of it, since my company owns it)
- switch007 2y agoReminds me of cookie banners. Annoy you into submission (I know the EU doesn't mandate annoying cookie banners but unintended consequences etc)
- merb 2y agoactually in that case its more the other way around. its easier to drive with a profile that is not connected, you only loose the app functions like heating and knowing how much you still can drive and other things that are not 100% needed. with a not connected profile the car starts and you dont need to press an additional button to access your media stuff. so far only vw does that in the german market. everbody else uses agb's/eulas and stuff to tell you about the connection. vw is just bad when it comes to software.