10 ms·

Guide to mechanical keyboards

247 points by Bluestein 2y ago

amelius 2y ago
Is there also a guide somewhere for making your own high quality key caps?
crimsoneer 2y ago
I just upgraded from my ZSA Moonlander to a Voyager for Christmas, and I am so excited.
gsliepen 2y ago
I got my first mechanical keyboard many years ago when playing a game where I had to do some complicated maneuver involving multiple keys which I just couldn't seem to pull off, until I realized that my then keyboard suffered from ghosting. Seems like mechanical keys and N-Key Rollover just go hand in hand. I have a few now at work and home, my favorites are the Das Keyboard 6 Pro and the Wobkey Crush 80.
qwerty456127 2y ago
> Want a mechanical keyboard but don't know where to start? Not really. I enjoy membrane keyboards and want everything as silent as possible. Yet I want a hackable controller firmware and it seems these are only available with mechanical keyboards.
- mdnxjdnen 2y ago
  Opti electrical are much more silent then membrane
- Klathmon 2y ago
  If you do ever want to dive into the keeb firmware hacking world, you absolutely can build very silent mechanical keyboards. Between linear switches, quiet mounting options, and even o-rings if you have a tendency to press keys harder, you can get them to being only slightly louder than a MacBook keyboard (or maybe not louder, just different sounding)
- phito 2y ago
  Mechanical keyboards are not inherently noisy
  - balls187 2y ago
    I switched to EPO Sea Salt. The tactile feel without the loud clacky sound. My fashion designer, on the other hand, loves both the tactile feel and clacky sound of Kalih White Box switches.
    - qwerty456127 2y ago
      > loves both the tactile feel and clacky sound Loving something doesn't necessarily imply wanting it to persist all the time in all the situations. I love to endure extreme heat for some minutes in a sauna but hardly want to live and work there. I also love tactile feel an clacky sound of some mechanical switches but hearing the clack millions of times per day doesn't sound appealing. And having to apply even a minuscule amount of extra force so many times with finger muscles not designed for this doesn't sound safe.
- urxvtcd 2y ago
  You might want to look into Topre switches. They are electrocapacitive rubber dome switches. They feel like typing on a cloud. I own a Leopold FC660C modded to be silent and to support QMK. I sometimes think about getting an ortholinear or split keyboard, but that rules out Topre so I’m not going to bother, it’s just too good.
  - qwerty456127 2y ago
    > I sometimes think about getting an ortholinear or split keyboard So do I. > but that rules out Topre How comes?
    - urxvtcd 2y ago
      No one is selling them. And no one is selling the switches. So the only way to get switches for a custom keyboard is buying a Topre keyboard only to pull them out. Seems like a lot of work. AFAIK, maybe that's changed since I last checked.
rpastuszak 2y ago
To anyone using Voyager or Moonlander on a Mac: do you have any tips on how to configure it? I'm messing with the default layout but after months of training still find it hard to use. That said, the ZSA support is just on another level compared to any hardware I've bought in the past decade. Incredibly responsive, thoughtful, and helpful. My only issue is my own analysis paralysis when messing with layouts, not the product itself.
- tmvphil 2y ago
  I did some major customization for my moonlander that I use with Mac. https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/ZKdVJ/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/ZKdVJ/latest/0 I don't like using the red thumb button or the third thumb button, so I try to cram what I need on the first two on each side. That was facilitated by using "home row modifiers" meaning shift/Ctrl/alt/Mac keys are accessed by holding keys on home row.
cthalupa 2y ago
There's a bit wrong on the keycap material side of things. You can't directly compare ABS to PBT in a vacuum - different specific blends of both are used in keycaps, for various price points/purposes/etc. There's also nothing preventing ABS keycaps from having texture. In fact, on the high end side of things, ABS doubleshot keycaps from manufacturers such as GMK are considered to be the gold standard, and PBT is often seen as the more "value" option. Though, I don't think this is accurate for the same reasons that I think the reverse is inaccurate, because you can get plenty of high quality PBT sets. It's a fun hobby, and the amount of customization you can get into to suite whatever your specific desires are is insane. I had never thought I would get into any sort of physical product design, but it's a unique enough niche that it is fairly common for people to design keycap sets, keyboards, etc., and get them built in low (300-2kish unit for keycaps, sometimes even as low to 10-100ish for keyboards) MOQs, and I've ended up designing 3 different keycap sets with a friend of mine.
rr808 2y ago
Anyone have mechanical keyboards banned at work because of security risk? technically we aren't allowed to use them, but I can't use the $5 junk they provide us with. Its a real risk though I wonder how many offices enforce rules like this.
- bigp3t3 2y ago
  Custom firmware and USB hubs? Valid threat. I would allow reputable vendors though. I help define the policies at my current workplace and we block anything that isn't an hid device or purely charging (headsets, phones are blocked from mounting storage) . Also no non-computing related accessories, so no usb flash drives, mug warmers, or deskfans-sorry.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Most places I've worked at have at least limited USB and bluetooth access. On certain (typically shared or special purpose) machines many of the more accessible USB ports were even glued shut for "oh yeah, it's not going to work" convenience. Never had trouble getting approval for a keyboard ordered by the company though. Took several months one time but eventually it was ordered, reviewed by security, and sent to me.
- hnbear 2y ago
  Get a doctors note explaining you have RSI and need a mechanical keyboard for the ergonomics. Pick the specific switches you need for your RSI/ergo reasons.
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
  In France I have never been forbidden from using anything, even with jobs a bit sensitive like coding for banks or credit cards. What kind of job are you doing?
jksmith 2y ago
I use the Model M for both writing beauty code and as a home defense weapon. Requires a conference table. Drive cubemates nuts.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  You can get arrested for walking around with a baseball bat. You can carry a Model M to walk to your car on a dark night and no one will raise an eyebrow.
NelsonMinar 2y ago
It's not mechanical switches, but I wish the fancy keyboard folks would get more interested in high quality scissor switches. Apple's A1243, the classic wired external keyboard, is nearly perfect for me. I finally gave up on mechanical keyboards and bought a few new-old-stock Apple keyboards to last me for the next decade or more. The unique thing about Apple keyboards is the very low profile keycaps and a tiny 0.9mm travel. Matias makes some very nice scissor keyboards but their 2.0mm travel feels different. Also they don't register quite as accurately, I have a lot of miskeys on them.
a12k 2y ago
This is a good article to familiarize yourself with the concepts, but would be great if they just listed a few keyboards that are top notch or popular for people to get started. Regardless, this is a lot of words to day that people should own either: 1. An IBM Model M keyboard, or 2. An HHKB Type S in charcoal with Topre switches and blank keycaps.
- deleted 2y ago
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pnathan 2y ago
My thoughts, as someone who focuses on tools a lot - Ergonomic is a must. Anything not ergonomic should be gently removed from your approach. Mechanical is nice, but relates to how your personal interaction with your tools is. I use Cherry Blue or similar. I personally want to feel that click. I also learned to type on a 1940s Royal typewriter. Cherry Red aka Linear feels awful. Connect any dots you like there. TKL designs with f keys and arrows are ideal for emacs users imo. Anything less feels either for non programmers or for people who use keychords a good deal less. The really cranked down designs seem more for writers than coders- special characters are in layers. I have used Kinesis keyboards for a few years now. Their Edge RGB is _very_ nice. After an RSI episode earlier this year, I moved to an Advantage 360 SmartSet. I consider their SmartSet system to be ideal in terms of a very good meet point of configurability, ease of use, and reliability. Re the 360, I am not as convinced of the Ortho layout or lack of f-keys. The thumb keys work well. I would recommend Kinesis as a professional keyboard vendor. In any case, this becomes a personal geometry problem where your hands, arms, shoulders will all combine to make a physical keyboard better or worse. This is further fit +/- by the tools we use. So it's very individual. Hope my experience shared here help someone.
- bloopernova 2y ago
  I use an Alice layout Keychron Q10 and it fits well with Emacs. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-pro-alice-layout-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-pro-alice-lay... I have several of the left side macro keys set to M-x, C-g and others. Via is very easy to use to program your keyboard, and full QMK is almost infinitely capable.
  - pnathan 2y ago
    Yeah I looked at that design, but I wanted the palm rests and contours. I don't particularly _want_ an infinitely programmable KB - just enough to have stability.
drillsteps5 2y ago
Picked up this hobby a few years ago (during Covid) and bought 3 or 4 of these, either full-size (nostalgic for the Original from my youth) or TCL (when we got back to the office I wanted a keyboard that would fit in my backpack that was not my laptop's). Then I bought DasKeyboard 4 Pro (tactile switches) and that pretty much ended the hobby. It has everything, it's heavy, doesn't move on the desk (rubber feet), it's sturdy (its top is either aluminum or even steel), has 2 USB-A, very thick twisted USB cable, it's full size, has volume control wheel, even dedicated audio mute button, works with all my Windows and Linux boxes and the KVM. 3 years later it still looks and works like new. I'm a bit sad for my lost hobby but that's life I guess :)
variadix 2y ago
For programming, I really enjoy the Corne (crkbd). Having all symbols and numbers on easily reachable keys is much more ergonomic, and the tenting helps a lot with wrist strain. I also have macros for stuff like moving lines around, jumping forward/backward, deleting entire lines, etc.
deleted 2y ago
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bloopernova 2y ago
(2022)
- ethbr1 2y ago
  I was wondering why it was a useful article on Ars...
- imp0cat 2y ago
  Oh, is that why Hall-effect keyboards got no mention?
  - blacksmith_tb 2y ago
    They do, as "analog" - but it's more of a brush off than any real discussion. What they didn't really talk about at all is firmware, which seems like a big omission...
contrarian1234 2y ago
I guess it's a matter of habit, but after so many years of laptop keyboards everything else feels weird/wrong. I've tried mechanical keyboards (for about half ayear) .. and it always felt like using some antique typewriter b/c of the key travel If I need a detached keyboard then the only one that feels normal is the Apple Magickeyboard b/c it's exactly like a laptop and clicky (the logitech equivalents are very mushy). Wish there was one with standard/Windows keys
- maratc 2y ago
  Agreed 100%. The best keyboard for me is the one on my MacBook. It adds a grand total of 0 dollars to the cost of my system, and a grand total of 0 grams to the weight of my backpack. It's there for me when I stand, when I sit on a sofa, or when I check something on an occasional train. It needs no cables, and its batteries are never empty. The distance between the keyboard and the pointing device control area is so short that I don't need to move much when switching between the keyboard and the pointing device; I can also position the hand in a manner where some fingers can type at the same time that other fingers can control the pointing device. It doesn't help that most mechanical keyboards also start by tinkering with the layout, for reasons I can't even begin to understand. For example, I don't look at my keyboard much, relying on fingers to position themselves, and on some tactile feedback from the keyboard. Arrow keys, for instance, are these with some negative space above them, so my fingers can use that negative space to nail the position. Most mechanical keyboards just slam the arrow keys into the bulk of all the others, so if I use that I need to look at the keyboard every time I want to use the arrow keys. (There was some unfortunate period in Apple's history where they made the left and right arrow keys full-size and eliminated the negative space, rendering that keyboards harder to use for me; I skipped these machines until they got back to sanity.)
- maeil 2y ago
  > the Apple Magickeyboard b/c it's exactly like a laptop and clicky I'm being super pedantic, but it's not, the switches and especially keycaps are different from what they use in e.g. a Macbook Air (and not just in size). For 99% they'll be close enough, but for me this makes the magic keyboard a no-go. I'm still looking for the holy grail, an external keyboard that's a near copy of the Macbook keyboard. I'd be willing to spend $500+ on it, but haven't found anything. Or, similarly, a keyboard that is even softer and lower travel than the Macbook keyboard. Nothing seems to have a similar actuation profile. I once found a website that showed actuation profiles through graphs, where you could pick from dozens of switches - none of them had a similar profile. Wonder why, is it hard to make? Is there really no market? Patents?
casenmgreen 2y ago
I hear insanely positive reviews of Hall effect, on the basis of being able to have different key behaviours depending how far down you press the key. So simple example, in a game, walk is a half press and run is a full press. You could imagine also semi-colon a half press and full colon from a full press.
- GuB-42 2y ago
  Analog pushbuttons tend not to have much success. The original Street Fighter for instance could select between light/medium/heavy attacks based on how hard you pushed buttons. It didn't last long before they got back to the familiar 6 button layout with simple switches. The Playstation 2 had analog pushbuttons, essentially no one used them. Even analog triggers are mostly used as simple switches. Apple discontinued force touch too. There is an advantage to Hall effect sensors for gaming keyboards though. It is that they don't have a set actuation point and it allows for a feature called "rapid trigger", greatly improving reactivity and tapping speed. It is particularly important for games like OSU!
- moondev 2y ago
  My dream is for the following: - low profile hall effect switch - mx stems - tactile - quiet or almost silent - adjusting the actuation actually adjusts the travel So the last item you could set up an ultra "short throw" switch I have gotten close by making a frakenswitch of multiple switches, but would be amazing to programmatically create this
- jsheard 2y ago
  While you can assign multiple actions to one key with hall effect, the biggest benefit (for gaming at least) is what they call rapid trigger actuation. The idea is that instead of the key triggering and releasing at a specific point in its travel, it reacts to a change in direction so you can instantly switch from pressed to released or vice versa at any point in the keys travel.
- wellthisisgreat 2y ago
  I’ve been eyeing a Hall effect board, but having used Swiftpoint Z mouse which has that pressure-based activation on several buttons, I must admit it’s the kind of feature that’s good on paper. At least for me, it’s pretty hard to consistent reproduce “half press” and “full press” and if I wanted to do a “long press” I can easily set it up in QMK for any mechanical keyboard
hummerbliss 2y ago
I use split keyboards and finding a mechanical split keyboard without the ortho linear configuration seem to be hard. I just want a mechanical split keyboard with hot swappable keys with staggered (normal) keyboard.
- baumy 2y ago
  I bit the bullet and got used to column staggered layouts but I feel your pain. Some options that I found when I was down this rabbit hole: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ (my personal favorite) https://keeb.io/products/cepstrum-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/cepstrum-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/sinc-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/sinc-keyboard-pre-built https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2 https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2 https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q11-qmk-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q11-qmk-custom-me...
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Another one if you're up for a project to put it together: https://nullbits.co/snap/ https://nullbits.co/snap/
  - Forricide 2y ago
    I use a Cepstrum (bought a kit + switches + keycaps and put it together; there's no soldering required, so it's quite easy). I never 3D printed tenting, so it's not quite perfect for normal typing, but for gaming it's fantastic - I don't think I can go back to non low-profile switches.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Does the ultimate hacking keyboard have some kind of encryption to provide security/privacy for wireless connections? I’ve not used a wireless keyboard before.
- wlesieutre 2y ago
ashton314 2y ago
The most important thing to look for (imo) is programmability. You want a board that supports QMK or ZMK firmware. This lets you set up stuff like mod-tap, macros, mouse keys, etc. Mod tap is my favorite thing ergonomics-wise: v and m act as shift when held, normal letters when tapped. Really takes the strain off my pinkies. I also like having a navigation layer: hjkl in this layer act like vim-layout arrow keys. I use a ZSA Moonlander. Best investment ever.
- tuffff 2y ago
  Oh hi, another Moonlander connoisseur! I love mine. The layout, the adjustments, the thumb cluster, the firmware. I put the navigation onto asdf to have a numblock-layer under my right hand. Only negative is my cat managed to break the rather flimsy plastic around the thumb cluster screw and I had to lay it flat until I put something more solid under it to stabilize.
- jwr 2y ago
  Another good option is one of the UHK (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard) keyboards — I've been using them for years now and I'm very happy with them. The huge customizability is a big plus for me, especially as I use multiple operating systems: the ability to quickly switch the keyboard to generate Linux-friendly sequences (for things such as moving windows or switching between workspaces) makes life much easier. https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com
- Findecanor 2y ago
  In addition, get QMK with Via[0] or Vial[1] support compiled in! Then you could edit the keyboard configuration in a web browser (that supports WebUSB and WebAssembly), and you don't have to compile and flash the firmware every time you want to make a change. 0: https://www.caniusevia.com/ https://www.caniusevia.com/ 1: https://get.vial.today/ https://get.vial.today/
  - yosef123 2y ago
    That is true, however, one thing to keep in mind, is that these tools like Via / Vial, will always be limited compared to a fully fledged programming language like C with and its QMK framework. Something that I only realized after the fact.
randmeerkat 2y ago
It’s a disservice to have a guide to mechanical keyboards that doesn’t mention the ErgoDox EZ: https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/
- jszymborski 2y ago
  Idk if I agree as split keyboards is likely not what folks have in mind, but I will say that I absolutely love my ErgoDox EZ.
  - randmeerkat 2y ago
    > Idk if I agree as split keyboards is likely not what folks have in mind… The article literally mentions a mechanical split keyboard, without mentioning the ErgoDox.
    - jszymborski 2y ago
      That's fair! That said it was a fairly accessible one that could turn into a (mostly) normal keyboard, which feels like the more relevant option to the audience this article was geared to.
  - balls187 2y ago
    I had to switch to the ergodox after my RSI came back. I had been using regular keyboards for quite some time. Once you get the customizations dialed in, it's fantastic.
ProllyInfamous 2y ago
I have used several inexpensive Apple-keyed mechanical keyboards. My random observations: Buckley Springs (e.g. IBM Model M -type, Unicomp) are absolutely the best keyfeel, but they just won't last longer than the keyboard's warranty (probably nowhere near as long, YMMV). They are obnoxiously loud (similar to my electric Smith Corona Coronet typewriter). Simple keystrikes above 100wpm often result in blown-out springs — I have thrown away my last Unicomp keyboard (after spring/warranty failures). daskeyboard (brown>blue>red) is heavenly, my daily-drivers (I own three, identical). Just a little bit louder than an OEM Apple keyboard, and always responds as depressed. The worst tactile keyboard I've ever used (non-mechanical, but physical buttons): mid 2010's Apple Laptop "butterfly" keys, which fail spectacularly (to crickets from Apple).
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I had a model M that was built in 1993 that I used until 2016. The main thing you need to do is clean it once in a while. I have a newer Model M today that I got last year and I doubt it will last as long.
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    Thanks for sharing your experience, very similar to mine. My IBM Selectric II has buckling springs, but the ball/strike isn't fast enough to keep up with my typing... so the keys don't get abused nearly as much (never had a keyspring break on this typewriter). My honest assessment of Unicomp's newer buckling springs: you need to use a more-durable metal [see 80's/90's versions, for comparison). The springs seems to fail more from fatique than force... which is almost-certainly a materials science deficiency.
- ink_13 2y ago
  I dunno about that, my Model M from 1989 is still going strong. I've been waiting for it to fail for a decade at this point so I can upgrade to something more modern, but I find I'm not interested in giving it up prematurely.
  - 2y ago
thangalin 2y ago
No mention of Unicomp. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4041A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4041A They stopped selling quiet touch rubber membrane versions. Perhaps the Clickety-M buckling springs just aren't the same without the click? https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/QTRD https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/QTRD
- Uvix 2y ago
  The rubber dome ones didn't have buckling springs. They were "traditional" mass-market keyboard tech in the Model M form factor.
- 3pm 2y ago
  I think that Model M (Unicomp/Lexmark) was a cost cut for Model F. Just recently, a company resurrected true Model F: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
ridgeguy 2y ago
As I've aged, I've developed kinetic tremor. In typing, this shows up as missing my intended target key. The error most commonly presents as hitting two keys at once because my ability to hit only within a defined x,y envelope at the keyboard plane has declined. Analyzing my typos, my intended key gets most of my finger, with adjacent keys getting tripped by ~10% - 20%, i.e., by the edge of my finger. I would love to find a keyboard that has keys at the usual pitch (I'm usually on Apple products), but that are smaller targets. I think this would result in fewer "out-of-bounds" adjacent key strikes. I've searched for such, no results so far. Any recommendations gladly received, thanks.
- lawn 2y ago
  You might have success with choc switches as they can be placed closer together than MX style switches.
  - Findecanor 2y ago
    I think you've missed the point. The poster wants the pitch to stay the same, but have more gaps between key surfaces.
    - lawn 2y ago
      Ah, my bad. I guess the best way would be to design your own keyboard and add extra spacing. It may sound daunting but it's not too difficult honestly.
    - breckenedge 2y ago
      Choc switches (18mm x 17mm) will give you 2mm-4mm more gap if used in a standard MX layout (19mm x 19mm). Some custom keyboards (ex: Lily58 Pro) accommodate both switches.
- n0n0n4t0r 2y ago
  For some time I could only type correctly with the Logitech k740, but it's discontinued now. I don't know why, but I can type on another (french) mechanical keyboard. Maybe the successors line the MX master have what made magic for me: an important bevel. I invite you to try it out
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ivanjermakov 2y ago
All that and a single paragraph about ergonomic split keyboards? What a shame. Imo, the main reasons to get into mech keyboards are customization and programmability. This subreddit is a good starting point: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/
- peterbecich 2y ago
  Two thumbs up for the Iris keyboard, typically purchased as a kit: https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard
- user_7832 2y ago
  I’d also add r/olkb for ortholinear keyboards and r/ergomechcomputers for those pushing ergo keyboards to their logical conclusion. Side note, the BFO-9000 looks glorious.
- mlloyd 2y ago
  Thanks for this! I use a Perrix 835 and I'm quite happy with it except that the keys are rubbing raw and I need new key caps. But I'm always looking to trade up if possible.
  - pabloescobyte 2y ago
    There's a whole world of custom split keyboard options out there that use switches where it's super easy to buy replacement keycaps. You can get keycaps made of PBT which are long-lasting and have a very high "rub" factor so you shouldn't have to worry about rubbing them raw for a very long time.
- AceJohnny2 2y ago
  Yes! I don't really understand the appeal of mechanical keyboards. I mean sure, they're a step up from cheap-ass rubber-dome defaults, so it's worth people discovering there are options. But for me, most mechanical keyboards are downright painful to use. The standard rectangular layout is bad for my wrists, the keypress depth is bad for my fingers, clicks are just plain annoying. Perhaps decades of keyboard use has worn my wrists and fingers down or helped me define what I wanted, but it's split low-profile or bust. And there's a dearth of such options on the market. Slowly rising, but a paltry fraction of the overall "mechanical"/custom keyboard market, especially as it comes to keycaps! Maybe I should just grab the bull by the horns and mod a Microsoft Sculpt to be wired, whose only downside is unreliable wireless. /rant
bsnnkv 2y ago
I'm still just waiting for someone to make a higher quality version of the Logitech Ergo K860.
- m1keil 2y ago
  I don't know if it's higher quality, but kinesis recently released the mWave https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/mwave/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/mwave/
- Epa095 2y ago
  PERIBOARD-835?
ilc 2y ago
I use a Svalboard now-a-days. For those looking for the modern Datahand... That's where it is. Same switch type, and much the same feel :) Disclaimer: I do volunteer firmware work on Svalboard. (vial-qmk)
- Epa095 2y ago
  Ohhh I have been low-key thinking of getting that one, but it's a bit expensive:-/ How do you find it? Was it hard to get going? Comfortable? Fast?
  - ilc 2y ago
    How do I find it: Daily driver for 9 months now, no regrets, love the board, and I've probably paid more for mine than anyone other than the creator :). Hard to get going: I'm an ex-DataHand user. It was near instant for me. Took me a few hours to make the dvorak map usable for my old muscle memory. I made the dvorak map a pretty exact emulation of the OG Dvorak DH. The adjustment time is real for most users. I've seen Injured highly motivated, injured users, move across in a weekend or two. Most people take 2-3 weeks? It really isn't bad considering the very well proven DH injury help. Comfortable: It isn't your normal board... You make it what you need for comfort. There are different hand rests in the community, etc. I persoonally use a pair of gel wrist rests as my palm rests. I find them very comfy, :) Fast: People are over 100 wpm. I am not a fast typist. I'm only 60-70 WPM usually, And I can hit it on sval. The big thing I'd say is: Svalboard is more of a journey to your answer, than just a packaged answer, I'd also think about getting a 3D Printer if you don't have one. (I have 2 around, an A1 Mini and P1S.) Join the discord... the folks are friendly... and you'll find me there, as well as other users, etc, Don't be afraid to to own your journey... I do not miss the other boards,,, and if your said "use one board." Svalboard is it for me I'm done.
jasoneckert 2y ago
Much like musicians that have dozens of musical keyboards in their collection, I've collected/built dozens of mechanical keyboards over the years. I've got ones with nearly every general type of switch (including Topre). I like to tell people that - as a developer - I'll spend $400+ on a mechanical keyboard that makes the sound I like, and then use it alongside $500+ noise-cancelling headphones. But all of my mechanical keyboards sit on a display shelf unused today as I prefer to use the Lenovo TrackPoint II keyboard for all of my work (including coding). It's just the best keyboard ever made in my opinion, and I love using it.
- deleted 2y ago
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- ziml77 2y ago
  I've got tons of keyboards as well, and despite just weeks ago getting the new Wooting keyboard am likely to get another. You don't really know if you like a board until you use it for a while. Like, I thought the near-TKL design of the Wooting would be fine, but it's actually incredibly annoying. I often use delete, home, end, page up, and page down[1] but only 4 of the keys exist in that cluster. Why could they not have just added the tiny bit of extra width to include the rest of the cluster? On other boards the issues that made me try something else tended to come down to the switches. It's wild how some switches were so easy to press that the weight of my fingers was basically enough to actuate them, while others made my fingers feel tired when trying to overcome the resistance of the tactile bump. I had one board I could hot swap keys on which made it easy to try other kinds but I gave up on doing that since even when I thought they were well aligned I would bend pins when pushing them in (and bending them back would just break the pins off, leading to many trashed switches).
- sgarman 2y ago
  Ten years ago I used to be really into all the mech keyboard stuff. Then I bought a topre realforce and have been using it ever since. The hobby part of the keyboards is neat but as far as "good" keyboard I haven't seen anything that would cause me to switch.
  - 2y ago
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Are mechanical keyboards good for ergonomics and carpal tunnel and all that? Do different switches make a difference for that sort of thing? I’ve been hearing a lot about Hall effect switches recently - wasn’t sure if that can help.
- lawn 2y ago
  No I don't think mechanical keyboards in general are better. I think heavy switches (which is very common) are worse than regular keyboards. Light switches (Choc has some nice very light switches) is probably better, and of course you'd want to look at split keyboards, column-stagger instead of row-stagger, and tenting.
- pabloescobyte 2y ago
  They can be but they are only a small part of the overall setup. You still need to have proper posture and pay particular attention to your habits. Different switches can also help depending on your typing habits and usecase. For me personally having less keys means less movement leading to significantly reduced possibility of RSI. With just 42 keys on my keyboard literally everything is one key away from each finger on home row so I can spend more time typing and mousing around than a traditional full size keyboard+mouse setup.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    I’ve invested in a good table and chair. I’m now looking to figure out my keyboard and mouse. I’ve not tried the small keyboards because I thought the cramped space may be worse. But maybe that’s wrong? Any specific recommendations for a keyboard or mouse?
    - snozolli 2y ago
      It's all very personal. Partly because you will like certain key switches and layouts, and partly because any problems you may be having may not be solved by the same things that fixed my problems. Personally, having tried a wide variety of keyboards and layouts (both key pattern and physical keyboard design), I think the biggest improvement is switching to any mechanical keyboard. Anything with Cherry MX switches will be a huge improvement over some cheap, sliding plastic keyboard from an OEM. After that, the particular type of switch might matter to you. Cherry Red, for example, only requires really light pressure. Topre switches are buttery smooth. For physical configuration, I personally like either an 87 key, or I go all out with a Kinesis Advantage. The Kinesis saved my early career when I developed bilateral De Quervain's syndrome, which is tendinitis in the wrist that starts with the thumb. After years of this, I finally returned to traditional QWERTY 87 key configurations and haven't had a flare-up. I still think the Kinesis configuration (arrow keys accessible without moving the hands, thumbs are used for delete, enter, home/end and PgUp/PgDn) is ergonomically superior, but it's nice being able to jump on any normal QWERTY keyboard without fighting muscle memory. My personal favorite mouse is the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer. I've heard good things about vertical mice for carpal tunnel.
mberning 2y ago
I do not understand the hobby around mech keyboards at all. It reminds me a lot of other activities/sports where the gear becomes more of a focus than the activity itself. Reminds me of photography or paintball. Dudes will have thousands of dollars of gear and use it 3 times a year.
- phito 2y ago
  I do not understand my coworkers who spend 8 hours a day typing on a shitty membrane keyboard. It's they job and their main interface to the computer and they are totally oblivious to it. They also use no shortcuts at all. I've seen some use the mouse to copy/paste...
  - mberning 2y ago
    I don’t know, unless the keyboard was truly awful I probably wouldn’t complain and just get to work on the task at hand. Then again, I started typing when I was a small child, used what was available, and at the time there wasn’t the level of keyboard choice there is today. Nor did I have the money to indulge in it if there were. I can definitely see the logic people employ to justify it. It’s the same logic used to justify a nice bed, shoes, etc.
- cthalupa 2y ago
  I'm up to roughly 40 boards at this point. I use two of them basically daily - my desktop and laptop dock. I tend to rotate them a few times a month. The hobby is about the gear, but the people that get really deep into it tend to be building them to fit a specific aesthetic - people make custom keycap sets, complete with graphic novelty keys, etc., for all sorts of themes, from food, to anime, to space, and everything in between. And people design the keyboard cases for just as many themes. Mine sit on stands in my office as decoration - I enjoy looking at them the same as I enjoy using them.
- breckenedge 2y ago
  The hobby is a spectrum. Compare r/ErgoMechKeyboards vs r/MechanicalKeyboards. You can easily avoid the “look how much I spent” part of the community.
breakingcups 2y ago
I see soooo many recommendations online in every discussions about mechanical keyboards. However, what I would really need is a physical place, a store, a showroom, to be able to try them out myself. A wide range of brands and options, preferably. I'm a keyboard pleb, after originally using a Model M I just moved on to other regular office keyboards. I like the idea of mechanical keyboards but I don't know if I would actually enjoy them, and there's so many variations that for every complaint you might have about a keyboard a friend might have that you can try, you'll get three people saying that I should really try keyboard X from brand Y instead because it will change my life.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  You and me both. I’ve had a few nice keyboards with various switches, but I’d love to get my hands on the ones people are talking about here to see how they feel to me. Bonus points of they were connected to a computer so I could gauge the whole experience.
- drillsteps5 2y ago
  BestBuy has _some_ on display (and you can type and try them out yourself), but in my area their stores have been shrinking in size and there's fewer and fewer things on display. Your best bet would be MicroCenter, the one near me has 10+ various ones on display. I know not everybody is fortunate enough to live near MicroCenter though :( BTW none of them will change your life, it's just hobby for those with extra time and disposable income :)
Bluestein 2y ago
Here's wishing one-handed chorded keyboards were mainstream - or, at least, viable ...
motorest 2y ago
Mechanical keyboards are nice, but what stumps me is the lack of support for USB hubs embedded in the keyboard. Anyone who uses yubikeys know the importance of having those a key stretch away, not to mention the convenience of being able to plug headphones and USB pens ok what you're already holding.
- m463 2y ago
  I have a steelseries apex pro with an additional USB port. It doesn't have a hub, it is a separate port and the keyboard cable has two usb-a male plugs on the end. I remember years ago having an apple keyboard that had a usb-a female on the side for the mouse. It wouldn't boot up with my mouse though, I suspect keyboard+mouse drew too much power. I had to run the mouse separate.
  - motorest 2y ago
    The steelseries apex pro is awfully pricy for that kind of keyboard. For budget-minded fans, as far as I can tell so far the Royal Kludge RK84 is the only decent keyboard with a usable USB hub, but it's cheap plastic chassis and keycaps are quite the turnoff. Hopefully something decent shows up in the market that mixes the best of mechanical keyboards with the very basic user experience of using a laptop.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  For most the "USB passthrough" section at the end covers the need of plugging a device and/or a headset in without needing a full hubs worth of devices sticking out of the keyboard. In general though the more functionally useful a keyboard would be the fewer options you'll find. I think a large part of it is many buyers are more worried about maximizing the aesthetics of the keyboard rather than creating a swiss army knife of a keyboard so that's what is easier to find.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  I prefer USB ports on the monitor, which can have a higher speed without creating problems. Most keyboards are designed for low speed USB links, not even for USB 2.0. Having to replace the cheap cable normally used by keyboards with an expensive cable, at the great cable length that is desirable for a keyboard, would raise the cost with negligible benefits. Many PCs have additional USB 2.0 ports for slow peripherals, i.e. mainly for keyboards, mice or graphic tablets. A keyboard with a USB hub suitable for a USB memory would need to use a USB 3 port on the PC, occupying a port that might have been better used for other peripherals, while leaving unused the slow USB ports.
nanook 2y ago
Why do they never make these with 4 modifier keys on the left side like Mac keyboards(Ctrl, Fn, Alt, Cmd)? Hate not being able to use muscle memory switching between my MBP and an external keyboard.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  The standard first 3 R4 keys (control, option/alt, command/win) are 1.25x width while the "true" Mac layout has those at 1x width to prevent the spacebar from having to migrate too far to the right (even though it's still a bit farther right than normal). This means to serve the niche of fn muscle memory users of the niche of Mac keyboard users you not only need the create the custom positional layout but custom keycaps (and the board/firmware you build it with must support layers to do fn in the first place). Then when you do all of this these people will still probably be uninterested because it's not some additional niche design criteria (70% vs 100%, low profile vs full size, split vs not, yadda yadda) anyways. All that is to say, there's a lot more going against it than just repositioning 1 key would seem. I had a coworker who liked https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/mk-lowkey70-black https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/mk-lowkey70-black. Basically "an external version of the MacBook keyboard with hotswap switches, RGB, and caps". Dunno that I've seen any full sized variants of the Mac layout though.
  - nanook 2y ago
    > niche of Mac keyboard users Is it a niche though? Logitech, cheap BT keyboards etc mostly stick to this layout. And it's not just the left side that is the issue - they move fn to the right in place of the alt key. Can't cmd-alt-i with 1 hand anymore! The only other keyboards I've seen with this mac-like layout are - - https://nuphy.com/collections/keyboards/products/nutype-f1?variant=32851509870701 https://nuphy.com/collections/keyboards/products/nutype-f1?v... which looks slick but I much prefer the 75% layout - https://electronicmaterialsoffice.com/ https://electronicmaterialsoffice.com/ which I can't justify paying for right now > an external version of the MacBook keyboard with hotswap switches, RGB, and caps Wow, this is almost exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks for the rec! It's a shame they don't ship to where I am right now. I'll try to pick one up next time I travel.
gtani 2y ago
For anybody that's at some stage of keeb curious but overwhelmed by info, look up keyboard meetups in reddit subs /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and /r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ It's just a lot easier to ask a live human
- gtani 2y ago
  you can also try a decent number at best buy and maybe other specialty retailers but: with the gaming oriented brands you often have to turn down RGB effects to make them tolerable, certain brands have switches that actuate high in the range of motion and it's often not easy to tell if the switches are soldered or have swappable sockets ____________________________________________ also the latest/greatest in split ergos seem to be the svalboards, ordered a 1 finger cluster to try but have no info about them yet
rifling9798 2y ago
In our relentless pursuit of the perfect interface between mind and machine, we build monuments to our own discontent. Each click, each tactile response, each millimeter of travel becomes a meditation on what we seek but cannot name. We spend fortunes to recreate the feeling of something we've never felt, chase echoes of satisfaction that fade with each new acquisition, and find ourselves surrounded by shrines to our own restlessness. In this symphony of springs and switches, we are all apprentices to an art that has no master.
- yard2010 2y ago
  I have been addicted to using my mechanical keyboard for years now. It doesn't get old, I can feel the dopamine rush with every key stroke. It's magical.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  If only Keats had had a Model M.
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    If only Keats had an LLM! :)
    - Bluestein 2y ago
      Ode on a Neural Network Thou still unraveled shape of silicon, Thou child of data and electric thought, Digital historian, who canst thus express A mathematical tale more sweetly than our prose: What leaf-fringed legend haunts thy tensored depths Of vectors or of nodes, or of both, In virtual space or clouded matrices? What parameters dance in what hidden layers? What mad pursuit? What struggle to compute? What matrices of backpropagation? How cold are those cold gradients, how sparse The lonely nodes that never can decode Their ancient patterns; and how blank the space Where each new epoch brings a fresh cascade Of weights adjusting to some distant truth That floats beyond our human comprehension's reach! O atrous convolution! fair display Of mathematical beauty born anew With every forward pass - yet still we gaze In wonder at thy deep complexity. Heard algorithms are sweet, but those unheard Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft transformers, play on; Not to the sensual ear, but, more endeared, Pipe to the spirit ditties of backprop: Fair function, beneath the nodes, thou canst not leave Thy gradients, nor ever can those trees Be pruned; bold Optimizer, never, never canst Thou kiss thy target, though thou draw'st so near! Yet do not grieve; she cannot fade, thy love Frozen in checkpoints time cannot destroy. When old age shall this generation waste, Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe Than ours, a friend to human-kind, to whom thou say'st, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know Of deep learning's vast and boundless dream.
BenFranklin100 2y ago
I’ve been very happy with the Tex Shinobi keyboard. https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi The integrated TrackPoint and retro Thinkpad styling makes typing a breeze without ever having to lift your hand off the keyboard for the mouse.
- breckenedge 2y ago
  I like it but not the proprietary configuration tool.
sagarpatil 2y ago
My only gripe with mechanical keyboards is there’s no version with apple touch ID (I know the technical constraints).
- Findecanor 2y ago
  There is a guy who is modding his Magic Keyboard 2 with Touch ID into a mechanical keyboard, with preserved touch ID functionality: <https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0>
ldjkfkdsjnv 2y ago
hhkb
sagarpatil 2y ago
As someone who recently moved from a mechanical keyboard to apple keyboard, the closest thing that can imitate the mechanical key sound is through this macos app: https://tryklack.com/ https://tryklack.com/
tehnub 2y ago
- Miryoku - BastardKB keyboard - Asymplex DES key caps
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
I'm sitting in my bunker, on the far side of the moon. Typing on this old clunker, ready to fire my death-rays soon! Alle Jahre wieder mach ich den neumodischen Kram nieder! http://xahlee.info/kbd/marquardt_mini_ergo_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/marquardt_mini_ergo_keyboard.html https://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Mini-Ergo https://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Mini-Ergo (Yes Yes, it has been modded meanwhile, electronically only, not mechanically. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector to PS/2 to USB, via modded early QMK. As did the others which I've gotten in reserve meanwhile :))
NotYourLawyer 2y ago
Not a word about Model M or Model F keyboards. Weird, they’re so much better than any of the stuff in this article.

247 points by Bluestein 2y ago

amelius 2y ago

Is there also a guide somewhere for making your own high quality key caps?

crimsoneer 2y ago

I just upgraded from my ZSA Moonlander to a Voyager for Christmas, and I am so excited.

gsliepen 2y ago

I got my first mechanical keyboard many years ago when playing a game where I had to do some complicated maneuver involving multiple keys which I just couldn't seem to pull off, until I realized that my then keyboard suffered from ghosting. Seems like mechanical keys and N-Key Rollover just go hand in hand. I have a few now at work and home, my favorites are the Das Keyboard 6 Pro and the Wobkey Crush 80.

qwerty456127 2y ago

> Want a mechanical keyboard but don't know where to start? Not really. I enjoy membrane keyboards and want everything as silent as possible. Yet I want a hackable controller firmware and it seems these are only available with mechanical keyboards.

mdnxjdnen 2y ago
Opti electrical are much more silent then membrane
Klathmon 2y ago
If you do ever want to dive into the keeb firmware hacking world, you absolutely can build very silent mechanical keyboards. Between linear switches, quiet mounting options, and even o-rings if you have a tendency to press keys harder, you can get them to being only slightly louder than a MacBook keyboard (or maybe not louder, just different sounding)
phito 2y ago
Mechanical keyboards are not inherently noisy
- balls187 2y ago
  I switched to EPO Sea Salt. The tactile feel without the loud clacky sound. My fashion designer, on the other hand, loves both the tactile feel and clacky sound of Kalih White Box switches.
  - qwerty456127 2y ago
    > loves both the tactile feel and clacky sound Loving something doesn't necessarily imply wanting it to persist all the time in all the situations. I love to endure extreme heat for some minutes in a sauna but hardly want to live and work there. I also love tactile feel an clacky sound of some mechanical switches but hearing the clack millions of times per day doesn't sound appealing. And having to apply even a minuscule amount of extra force so many times with finger muscles not designed for this doesn't sound safe.
urxvtcd 2y ago
You might want to look into Topre switches. They are electrocapacitive rubber dome switches. They feel like typing on a cloud. I own a Leopold FC660C modded to be silent and to support QMK. I sometimes think about getting an ortholinear or split keyboard, but that rules out Topre so I’m not going to bother, it’s just too good.
- qwerty456127 2y ago
  > I sometimes think about getting an ortholinear or split keyboard So do I. > but that rules out Topre How comes?
  - urxvtcd 2y ago
    No one is selling them. And no one is selling the switches. So the only way to get switches for a custom keyboard is buying a Topre keyboard only to pull them out. Seems like a lot of work. AFAIK, maybe that's changed since I last checked.

rpastuszak 2y ago

To anyone using Voyager or Moonlander on a Mac: do you have any tips on how to configure it? I'm messing with the default layout but after months of training still find it hard to use. That said, the ZSA support is just on another level compared to any hardware I've bought in the past decade. Incredibly responsive, thoughtful, and helpful. My only issue is my own analysis paralysis when messing with layouts, not the product itself.

tmvphil 2y ago
I did some major customization for my moonlander that I use with Mac. https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/ZKdVJ/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/ZKdVJ/latest/0 I don't like using the red thumb button or the third thumb button, so I try to cram what I need on the first two on each side. That was facilitated by using "home row modifiers" meaning shift/Ctrl/alt/Mac keys are accessed by holding keys on home row.

cthalupa 2y ago

There's a bit wrong on the keycap material side of things. You can't directly compare ABS to PBT in a vacuum - different specific blends of both are used in keycaps, for various price points/purposes/etc. There's also nothing preventing ABS keycaps from having texture. In fact, on the high end side of things, ABS doubleshot keycaps from manufacturers such as GMK are considered to be the gold standard, and PBT is often seen as the more "value" option. Though, I don't think this is accurate for the same reasons that I think the reverse is inaccurate, because you can get plenty of high quality PBT sets. It's a fun hobby, and the amount of customization you can get into to suite whatever your specific desires are is insane. I had never thought I would get into any sort of physical product design, but it's a unique enough niche that it is fairly common for people to design keycap sets, keyboards, etc., and get them built in low (300-2kish unit for keycaps, sometimes even as low to 10-100ish for keyboards) MOQs, and I've ended up designing 3 different keycap sets with a friend of mine.

rr808 2y ago

Anyone have mechanical keyboards banned at work because of security risk? technically we aren't allowed to use them, but I can't use the $5 junk they provide us with. Its a real risk though I wonder how many offices enforce rules like this.

bigp3t3 2y ago
Custom firmware and USB hubs? Valid threat. I would allow reputable vendors though. I help define the policies at my current workplace and we block anything that isn't an hid device or purely charging (headsets, phones are blocked from mounting storage) . Also no non-computing related accessories, so no usb flash drives, mug warmers, or deskfans-sorry.
zamadatix 2y ago
Most places I've worked at have at least limited USB and bluetooth access. On certain (typically shared or special purpose) machines many of the more accessible USB ports were even glued shut for "oh yeah, it's not going to work" convenience. Never had trouble getting approval for a keyboard ordered by the company though. Took several months one time but eventually it was ordered, reviewed by security, and sent to me.
hnbear 2y ago
Get a doctors note explaining you have RSI and need a mechanical keyboard for the ergonomics. Pick the specific switches you need for your RSI/ergo reasons.
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
In France I have never been forbidden from using anything, even with jobs a bit sensitive like coding for banks or credit cards. What kind of job are you doing?

jksmith 2y ago

I use the Model M for both writing beauty code and as a home defense weapon. Requires a conference table. Drive cubemates nuts.

kstrauser 2y ago
You can get arrested for walking around with a baseball bat. You can carry a Model M to walk to your car on a dark night and no one will raise an eyebrow.

NelsonMinar 2y ago

It's not mechanical switches, but I wish the fancy keyboard folks would get more interested in high quality scissor switches. Apple's A1243, the classic wired external keyboard, is nearly perfect for me. I finally gave up on mechanical keyboards and bought a few new-old-stock Apple keyboards to last me for the next decade or more. The unique thing about Apple keyboards is the very low profile keycaps and a tiny 0.9mm travel. Matias makes some very nice scissor keyboards but their 2.0mm travel feels different. Also they don't register quite as accurately, I have a lot of miskeys on them.

a12k 2y ago

This is a good article to familiarize yourself with the concepts, but would be great if they just listed a few keyboards that are top notch or popular for people to get started. Regardless, this is a lot of words to day that people should own either: 1. An IBM Model M keyboard, or 2. An HHKB Type S in charcoal with Topre switches and blank keycaps.

deleted 2y ago
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pnathan 2y ago

My thoughts, as someone who focuses on tools a lot - Ergonomic is a must. Anything not ergonomic should be gently removed from your approach. Mechanical is nice, but relates to how your personal interaction with your tools is. I use Cherry Blue or similar. I personally want to feel that click. I also learned to type on a 1940s Royal typewriter. Cherry Red aka Linear feels awful. Connect any dots you like there. TKL designs with f keys and arrows are ideal for emacs users imo. Anything less feels either for non programmers or for people who use keychords a good deal less. The really cranked down designs seem more for writers than coders- special characters are in layers. I have used Kinesis keyboards for a few years now. Their Edge RGB is _very_ nice. After an RSI episode earlier this year, I moved to an Advantage 360 SmartSet. I consider their SmartSet system to be ideal in terms of a very good meet point of configurability, ease of use, and reliability. Re the 360, I am not as convinced of the Ortho layout or lack of f-keys. The thumb keys work well. I would recommend Kinesis as a professional keyboard vendor. In any case, this becomes a personal geometry problem where your hands, arms, shoulders will all combine to make a physical keyboard better or worse. This is further fit +/- by the tools we use. So it's very individual. Hope my experience shared here help someone.

bloopernova 2y ago
I use an Alice layout Keychron Q10 and it fits well with Emacs. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-pro-alice-layout-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-pro-alice-lay... I have several of the left side macro keys set to M-x, C-g and others. Via is very easy to use to program your keyboard, and full QMK is almost infinitely capable.
- pnathan 2y ago
  Yeah I looked at that design, but I wanted the palm rests and contours. I don't particularly _want_ an infinitely programmable KB - just enough to have stability.

drillsteps5 2y ago

Picked up this hobby a few years ago (during Covid) and bought 3 or 4 of these, either full-size (nostalgic for the Original from my youth) or TCL (when we got back to the office I wanted a keyboard that would fit in my backpack that was not my laptop's). Then I bought DasKeyboard 4 Pro (tactile switches) and that pretty much ended the hobby. It has everything, it's heavy, doesn't move on the desk (rubber feet), it's sturdy (its top is either aluminum or even steel), has 2 USB-A, very thick twisted USB cable, it's full size, has volume control wheel, even dedicated audio mute button, works with all my Windows and Linux boxes and the KVM. 3 years later it still looks and works like new. I'm a bit sad for my lost hobby but that's life I guess :)

variadix 2y ago

For programming, I really enjoy the Corne (crkbd). Having all symbols and numbers on easily reachable keys is much more ergonomic, and the tenting helps a lot with wrist strain. I also have macros for stuff like moving lines around, jumping forward/backward, deleting entire lines, etc.

deleted 2y ago

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bloopernova 2y ago

(2022)

ethbr1 2y ago
I was wondering why it was a useful article on Ars...
imp0cat 2y ago
Oh, is that why Hall-effect keyboards got no mention?
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  They do, as "analog" - but it's more of a brush off than any real discussion. What they didn't really talk about at all is firmware, which seems like a big omission...

contrarian1234 2y ago

I guess it's a matter of habit, but after so many years of laptop keyboards everything else feels weird/wrong. I've tried mechanical keyboards (for about half ayear) .. and it always felt like using some antique typewriter b/c of the key travel If I need a detached keyboard then the only one that feels normal is the Apple Magickeyboard b/c it's exactly like a laptop and clicky (the logitech equivalents are very mushy). Wish there was one with standard/Windows keys

maratc 2y ago
Agreed 100%. The best keyboard for me is the one on my MacBook. It adds a grand total of 0 dollars to the cost of my system, and a grand total of 0 grams to the weight of my backpack. It's there for me when I stand, when I sit on a sofa, or when I check something on an occasional train. It needs no cables, and its batteries are never empty. The distance between the keyboard and the pointing device control area is so short that I don't need to move much when switching between the keyboard and the pointing device; I can also position the hand in a manner where some fingers can type at the same time that other fingers can control the pointing device. It doesn't help that most mechanical keyboards also start by tinkering with the layout, for reasons I can't even begin to understand. For example, I don't look at my keyboard much, relying on fingers to position themselves, and on some tactile feedback from the keyboard. Arrow keys, for instance, are these with some negative space above them, so my fingers can use that negative space to nail the position. Most mechanical keyboards just slam the arrow keys into the bulk of all the others, so if I use that I need to look at the keyboard every time I want to use the arrow keys. (There was some unfortunate period in Apple's history where they made the left and right arrow keys full-size and eliminated the negative space, rendering that keyboards harder to use for me; I skipped these machines until they got back to sanity.)
maeil 2y ago
> the Apple Magickeyboard b/c it's exactly like a laptop and clicky I'm being super pedantic, but it's not, the switches and especially keycaps are different from what they use in e.g. a Macbook Air (and not just in size). For 99% they'll be close enough, but for me this makes the magic keyboard a no-go. I'm still looking for the holy grail, an external keyboard that's a near copy of the Macbook keyboard. I'd be willing to spend $500+ on it, but haven't found anything. Or, similarly, a keyboard that is even softer and lower travel than the Macbook keyboard. Nothing seems to have a similar actuation profile. I once found a website that showed actuation profiles through graphs, where you could pick from dozens of switches - none of them had a similar profile. Wonder why, is it hard to make? Is there really no market? Patents?

casenmgreen 2y ago

I hear insanely positive reviews of Hall effect, on the basis of being able to have different key behaviours depending how far down you press the key. So simple example, in a game, walk is a half press and run is a full press. You could imagine also semi-colon a half press and full colon from a full press.

GuB-42 2y ago
Analog pushbuttons tend not to have much success. The original Street Fighter for instance could select between light/medium/heavy attacks based on how hard you pushed buttons. It didn't last long before they got back to the familiar 6 button layout with simple switches. The Playstation 2 had analog pushbuttons, essentially no one used them. Even analog triggers are mostly used as simple switches. Apple discontinued force touch too. There is an advantage to Hall effect sensors for gaming keyboards though. It is that they don't have a set actuation point and it allows for a feature called "rapid trigger", greatly improving reactivity and tapping speed. It is particularly important for games like OSU!
moondev 2y ago
My dream is for the following: - low profile hall effect switch - mx stems - tactile - quiet or almost silent - adjusting the actuation actually adjusts the travel So the last item you could set up an ultra "short throw" switch I have gotten close by making a frakenswitch of multiple switches, but would be amazing to programmatically create this
jsheard 2y ago
While you can assign multiple actions to one key with hall effect, the biggest benefit (for gaming at least) is what they call rapid trigger actuation. The idea is that instead of the key triggering and releasing at a specific point in its travel, it reacts to a change in direction so you can instantly switch from pressed to released or vice versa at any point in the keys travel.
wellthisisgreat 2y ago
I’ve been eyeing a Hall effect board, but having used Swiftpoint Z mouse which has that pressure-based activation on several buttons, I must admit it’s the kind of feature that’s good on paper. At least for me, it’s pretty hard to consistent reproduce “half press” and “full press” and if I wanted to do a “long press” I can easily set it up in QMK for any mechanical keyboard

hummerbliss 2y ago

I use split keyboards and finding a mechanical split keyboard without the ortho linear configuration seem to be hard. I just want a mechanical split keyboard with hot swappable keys with staggered (normal) keyboard.

baumy 2y ago
I bit the bullet and got used to column staggered layouts but I feel your pain. Some options that I found when I was down this rabbit hole: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ (my personal favorite) https://keeb.io/products/cepstrum-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/cepstrum-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/quefrency-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/sinc-keyboard-pre-built https://keeb.io/products/sinc-keyboard-pre-built https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2 https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2 https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q11-qmk-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q11-qmk-custom-me...
- jsheard 2y ago
  Another one if you're up for a project to put it together: https://nullbits.co/snap/ https://nullbits.co/snap/
- Forricide 2y ago
  I use a Cepstrum (bought a kit + switches + keycaps and put it together; there's no soldering required, so it's quite easy). I never 3D printed tenting, so it's not quite perfect for normal typing, but for gaming it's fantastic - I don't think I can go back to non low-profile switches.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  Does the ultimate hacking keyboard have some kind of encryption to provide security/privacy for wireless connections? I’ve not used a wireless keyboard before.
wlesieutre 2y ago

ashton314 2y ago

The most important thing to look for (imo) is programmability. You want a board that supports QMK or ZMK firmware. This lets you set up stuff like mod-tap, macros, mouse keys, etc. Mod tap is my favorite thing ergonomics-wise: v and m act as shift when held, normal letters when tapped. Really takes the strain off my pinkies. I also like having a navigation layer: hjkl in this layer act like vim-layout arrow keys. I use a ZSA Moonlander. Best investment ever.

tuffff 2y ago
Oh hi, another Moonlander connoisseur! I love mine. The layout, the adjustments, the thumb cluster, the firmware. I put the navigation onto asdf to have a numblock-layer under my right hand. Only negative is my cat managed to break the rather flimsy plastic around the thumb cluster screw and I had to lay it flat until I put something more solid under it to stabilize.
jwr 2y ago
Another good option is one of the UHK (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard) keyboards — I've been using them for years now and I'm very happy with them. The huge customizability is a big plus for me, especially as I use multiple operating systems: the ability to quickly switch the keyboard to generate Linux-friendly sequences (for things such as moving windows or switching between workspaces) makes life much easier. https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com
Findecanor 2y ago
In addition, get QMK with Via[0] or Vial[1] support compiled in! Then you could edit the keyboard configuration in a web browser (that supports WebUSB and WebAssembly), and you don't have to compile and flash the firmware every time you want to make a change. 0: https://www.caniusevia.com/ https://www.caniusevia.com/ 1: https://get.vial.today/ https://get.vial.today/
- yosef123 2y ago
  That is true, however, one thing to keep in mind, is that these tools like Via / Vial, will always be limited compared to a fully fledged programming language like C with and its QMK framework. Something that I only realized after the fact.

randmeerkat 2y ago

It’s a disservice to have a guide to mechanical keyboards that doesn’t mention the ErgoDox EZ: https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/

jszymborski 2y ago
Idk if I agree as split keyboards is likely not what folks have in mind, but I will say that I absolutely love my ErgoDox EZ.
- randmeerkat 2y ago
  > Idk if I agree as split keyboards is likely not what folks have in mind… The article literally mentions a mechanical split keyboard, without mentioning the ErgoDox.
  - jszymborski 2y ago
    That's fair! That said it was a fairly accessible one that could turn into a (mostly) normal keyboard, which feels like the more relevant option to the audience this article was geared to.
- balls187 2y ago
  I had to switch to the ergodox after my RSI came back. I had been using regular keyboards for quite some time. Once you get the customizations dialed in, it's fantastic.

ProllyInfamous 2y ago

I have used several inexpensive Apple-keyed mechanical keyboards. My random observations: Buckley Springs (e.g. IBM Model M -type, Unicomp) are absolutely the best keyfeel, but they just won't last longer than the keyboard's warranty (probably nowhere near as long, YMMV). They are obnoxiously loud (similar to my electric Smith Corona Coronet typewriter). Simple keystrikes above 100wpm often result in blown-out springs — I have thrown away my last Unicomp keyboard (after spring/warranty failures). daskeyboard (brown>blue>red) is heavenly, my daily-drivers (I own three, identical). Just a little bit louder than an OEM Apple keyboard, and always responds as depressed. The worst tactile keyboard I've ever used (non-mechanical, but physical buttons): mid 2010's Apple Laptop "butterfly" keys, which fail spectacularly (to crickets from Apple).

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I had a model M that was built in 1993 that I used until 2016. The main thing you need to do is clean it once in a while. I have a newer Model M today that I got last year and I doubt it will last as long.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing your experience, very similar to mine. My IBM Selectric II has buckling springs, but the ball/strike isn't fast enough to keep up with my typing... so the keys don't get abused nearly as much (never had a keyspring break on this typewriter). My honest assessment of Unicomp's newer buckling springs: you need to use a more-durable metal [see 80's/90's versions, for comparison). The springs seems to fail more from fatique than force... which is almost-certainly a materials science deficiency.
ink_13 2y ago
I dunno about that, my Model M from 1989 is still going strong. I've been waiting for it to fail for a decade at this point so I can upgrade to something more modern, but I find I'm not interested in giving it up prematurely.
- 2y ago

thangalin 2y ago

No mention of Unicomp. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4041A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4041A They stopped selling quiet touch rubber membrane versions. Perhaps the Clickety-M buckling springs just aren't the same without the click? https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/QTRD https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/QTRD

Uvix 2y ago
The rubber dome ones didn't have buckling springs. They were "traditional" mass-market keyboard tech in the Model M form factor.
3pm 2y ago
I think that Model M (Unicomp/Lexmark) was a cost cut for Model F. Just recently, a company resurrected true Model F: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

ridgeguy 2y ago

As I've aged, I've developed kinetic tremor. In typing, this shows up as missing my intended target key. The error most commonly presents as hitting two keys at once because my ability to hit only within a defined x,y envelope at the keyboard plane has declined. Analyzing my typos, my intended key gets most of my finger, with adjacent keys getting tripped by ~10% - 20%, i.e., by the edge of my finger. I would love to find a keyboard that has keys at the usual pitch (I'm usually on Apple products), but that are smaller targets. I think this would result in fewer "out-of-bounds" adjacent key strikes. I've searched for such, no results so far. Any recommendations gladly received, thanks.

lawn 2y ago
You might have success with choc switches as they can be placed closer together than MX style switches.
- Findecanor 2y ago
  I think you've missed the point. The poster wants the pitch to stay the same, but have more gaps between key surfaces.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Ah, my bad. I guess the best way would be to design your own keyboard and add extra spacing. It may sound daunting but it's not too difficult honestly.
  - breckenedge 2y ago
    Choc switches (18mm x 17mm) will give you 2mm-4mm more gap if used in a standard MX layout (19mm x 19mm). Some custom keyboards (ex: Lily58 Pro) accommodate both switches.
n0n0n4t0r 2y ago
For some time I could only type correctly with the Logitech k740, but it's discontinued now. I don't know why, but I can type on another (french) mechanical keyboard. Maybe the successors line the MX master have what made magic for me: an important bevel. I invite you to try it out

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ivanjermakov 2y ago

All that and a single paragraph about ergonomic split keyboards? What a shame. Imo, the main reasons to get into mech keyboards are customization and programmability. This subreddit is a good starting point: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/

peterbecich 2y ago
Two thumbs up for the Iris keyboard, typically purchased as a kit: https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard
user_7832 2y ago
I’d also add r/olkb for ortholinear keyboards and r/ergomechcomputers for those pushing ergo keyboards to their logical conclusion. Side note, the BFO-9000 looks glorious.
mlloyd 2y ago
Thanks for this! I use a Perrix 835 and I'm quite happy with it except that the keys are rubbing raw and I need new key caps. But I'm always looking to trade up if possible.
- pabloescobyte 2y ago
  There's a whole world of custom split keyboard options out there that use switches where it's super easy to buy replacement keycaps. You can get keycaps made of PBT which are long-lasting and have a very high "rub" factor so you shouldn't have to worry about rubbing them raw for a very long time.
AceJohnny2 2y ago
Yes! I don't really understand the appeal of mechanical keyboards. I mean sure, they're a step up from cheap-ass rubber-dome defaults, so it's worth people discovering there are options. But for me, most mechanical keyboards are downright painful to use. The standard rectangular layout is bad for my wrists, the keypress depth is bad for my fingers, clicks are just plain annoying. Perhaps decades of keyboard use has worn my wrists and fingers down or helped me define what I wanted, but it's split low-profile or bust. And there's a dearth of such options on the market. Slowly rising, but a paltry fraction of the overall "mechanical"/custom keyboard market, especially as it comes to keycaps! Maybe I should just grab the bull by the horns and mod a Microsoft Sculpt to be wired, whose only downside is unreliable wireless. /rant

bsnnkv 2y ago

I'm still just waiting for someone to make a higher quality version of the Logitech Ergo K860.

m1keil 2y ago
I don't know if it's higher quality, but kinesis recently released the mWave https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/mwave/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/mwave/
Epa095 2y ago
PERIBOARD-835?

ilc 2y ago

I use a Svalboard now-a-days. For those looking for the modern Datahand... That's where it is. Same switch type, and much the same feel :) Disclaimer: I do volunteer firmware work on Svalboard. (vial-qmk)

Epa095 2y ago
Ohhh I have been low-key thinking of getting that one, but it's a bit expensive:-/ How do you find it? Was it hard to get going? Comfortable? Fast?
- ilc 2y ago
  How do I find it: Daily driver for 9 months now, no regrets, love the board, and I've probably paid more for mine than anyone other than the creator :). Hard to get going: I'm an ex-DataHand user. It was near instant for me. Took me a few hours to make the dvorak map usable for my old muscle memory. I made the dvorak map a pretty exact emulation of the OG Dvorak DH. The adjustment time is real for most users. I've seen Injured highly motivated, injured users, move across in a weekend or two. Most people take 2-3 weeks? It really isn't bad considering the very well proven DH injury help. Comfortable: It isn't your normal board... You make it what you need for comfort. There are different hand rests in the community, etc. I persoonally use a pair of gel wrist rests as my palm rests. I find them very comfy, :) Fast: People are over 100 wpm. I am not a fast typist. I'm only 60-70 WPM usually, And I can hit it on sval. The big thing I'd say is: Svalboard is more of a journey to your answer, than just a packaged answer, I'd also think about getting a 3D Printer if you don't have one. (I have 2 around, an A1 Mini and P1S.) Join the discord... the folks are friendly... and you'll find me there, as well as other users, etc, Don't be afraid to to own your journey... I do not miss the other boards,,, and if your said "use one board." Svalboard is it for me I'm done.

jasoneckert 2y ago

Much like musicians that have dozens of musical keyboards in their collection, I've collected/built dozens of mechanical keyboards over the years. I've got ones with nearly every general type of switch (including Topre). I like to tell people that - as a developer - I'll spend $400+ on a mechanical keyboard that makes the sound I like, and then use it alongside $500+ noise-cancelling headphones. But all of my mechanical keyboards sit on a display shelf unused today as I prefer to use the Lenovo TrackPoint II keyboard for all of my work (including coding). It's just the best keyboard ever made in my opinion, and I love using it.

deleted 2y ago
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ziml77 2y ago
I've got tons of keyboards as well, and despite just weeks ago getting the new Wooting keyboard am likely to get another. You don't really know if you like a board until you use it for a while. Like, I thought the near-TKL design of the Wooting would be fine, but it's actually incredibly annoying. I often use delete, home, end, page up, and page down[1] but only 4 of the keys exist in that cluster. Why could they not have just added the tiny bit of extra width to include the rest of the cluster? On other boards the issues that made me try something else tended to come down to the switches. It's wild how some switches were so easy to press that the weight of my fingers was basically enough to actuate them, while others made my fingers feel tired when trying to overcome the resistance of the tactile bump. I had one board I could hot swap keys on which made it easy to try other kinds but I gave up on doing that since even when I thought they were well aligned I would bend pins when pushing them in (and bending them back would just break the pins off, leading to many trashed switches).
sgarman 2y ago
Ten years ago I used to be really into all the mech keyboard stuff. Then I bought a topre realforce and have been using it ever since. The hobby part of the keyboards is neat but as far as "good" keyboard I haven't seen anything that would cause me to switch.
- 2y ago

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Are mechanical keyboards good for ergonomics and carpal tunnel and all that? Do different switches make a difference for that sort of thing? I’ve been hearing a lot about Hall effect switches recently - wasn’t sure if that can help.

lawn 2y ago
No I don't think mechanical keyboards in general are better. I think heavy switches (which is very common) are worse than regular keyboards. Light switches (Choc has some nice very light switches) is probably better, and of course you'd want to look at split keyboards, column-stagger instead of row-stagger, and tenting.
pabloescobyte 2y ago
They can be but they are only a small part of the overall setup. You still need to have proper posture and pay particular attention to your habits. Different switches can also help depending on your typing habits and usecase. For me personally having less keys means less movement leading to significantly reduced possibility of RSI. With just 42 keys on my keyboard literally everything is one key away from each finger on home row so I can spend more time typing and mousing around than a traditional full size keyboard+mouse setup.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I’ve invested in a good table and chair. I’m now looking to figure out my keyboard and mouse. I’ve not tried the small keyboards because I thought the cramped space may be worse. But maybe that’s wrong? Any specific recommendations for a keyboard or mouse?
  - snozolli 2y ago
    It's all very personal. Partly because you will like certain key switches and layouts, and partly because any problems you may be having may not be solved by the same things that fixed my problems. Personally, having tried a wide variety of keyboards and layouts (both key pattern and physical keyboard design), I think the biggest improvement is switching to any mechanical keyboard. Anything with Cherry MX switches will be a huge improvement over some cheap, sliding plastic keyboard from an OEM. After that, the particular type of switch might matter to you. Cherry Red, for example, only requires really light pressure. Topre switches are buttery smooth. For physical configuration, I personally like either an 87 key, or I go all out with a Kinesis Advantage. The Kinesis saved my early career when I developed bilateral De Quervain's syndrome, which is tendinitis in the wrist that starts with the thumb. After years of this, I finally returned to traditional QWERTY 87 key configurations and haven't had a flare-up. I still think the Kinesis configuration (arrow keys accessible without moving the hands, thumbs are used for delete, enter, home/end and PgUp/PgDn) is ergonomically superior, but it's nice being able to jump on any normal QWERTY keyboard without fighting muscle memory. My personal favorite mouse is the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer. I've heard good things about vertical mice for carpal tunnel.

mberning 2y ago

I do not understand the hobby around mech keyboards at all. It reminds me a lot of other activities/sports where the gear becomes more of a focus than the activity itself. Reminds me of photography or paintball. Dudes will have thousands of dollars of gear and use it 3 times a year.

phito 2y ago
I do not understand my coworkers who spend 8 hours a day typing on a shitty membrane keyboard. It's they job and their main interface to the computer and they are totally oblivious to it. They also use no shortcuts at all. I've seen some use the mouse to copy/paste...
- mberning 2y ago
  I don’t know, unless the keyboard was truly awful I probably wouldn’t complain and just get to work on the task at hand. Then again, I started typing when I was a small child, used what was available, and at the time there wasn’t the level of keyboard choice there is today. Nor did I have the money to indulge in it if there were. I can definitely see the logic people employ to justify it. It’s the same logic used to justify a nice bed, shoes, etc.
cthalupa 2y ago
I'm up to roughly 40 boards at this point. I use two of them basically daily - my desktop and laptop dock. I tend to rotate them a few times a month. The hobby is about the gear, but the people that get really deep into it tend to be building them to fit a specific aesthetic - people make custom keycap sets, complete with graphic novelty keys, etc., for all sorts of themes, from food, to anime, to space, and everything in between. And people design the keyboard cases for just as many themes. Mine sit on stands in my office as decoration - I enjoy looking at them the same as I enjoy using them.
breckenedge 2y ago
The hobby is a spectrum. Compare r/ErgoMechKeyboards vs r/MechanicalKeyboards. You can easily avoid the “look how much I spent” part of the community.

breakingcups 2y ago

I see soooo many recommendations online in every discussions about mechanical keyboards. However, what I would really need is a physical place, a store, a showroom, to be able to try them out myself. A wide range of brands and options, preferably. I'm a keyboard pleb, after originally using a Model M I just moved on to other regular office keyboards. I like the idea of mechanical keyboards but I don't know if I would actually enjoy them, and there's so many variations that for every complaint you might have about a keyboard a friend might have that you can try, you'll get three people saying that I should really try keyboard X from brand Y instead because it will change my life.

kstrauser 2y ago
You and me both. I’ve had a few nice keyboards with various switches, but I’d love to get my hands on the ones people are talking about here to see how they feel to me. Bonus points of they were connected to a computer so I could gauge the whole experience.
drillsteps5 2y ago
BestBuy has _some_ on display (and you can type and try them out yourself), but in my area their stores have been shrinking in size and there's fewer and fewer things on display. Your best bet would be MicroCenter, the one near me has 10+ various ones on display. I know not everybody is fortunate enough to live near MicroCenter though :( BTW none of them will change your life, it's just hobby for those with extra time and disposable income :)

Bluestein 2y ago

Here's wishing one-handed chorded keyboards were mainstream - or, at least, viable ...

motorest 2y ago

Mechanical keyboards are nice, but what stumps me is the lack of support for USB hubs embedded in the keyboard. Anyone who uses yubikeys know the importance of having those a key stretch away, not to mention the convenience of being able to plug headphones and USB pens ok what you're already holding.

m463 2y ago
I have a steelseries apex pro with an additional USB port. It doesn't have a hub, it is a separate port and the keyboard cable has two usb-a male plugs on the end. I remember years ago having an apple keyboard that had a usb-a female on the side for the mouse. It wouldn't boot up with my mouse though, I suspect keyboard+mouse drew too much power. I had to run the mouse separate.
- motorest 2y ago
  The steelseries apex pro is awfully pricy for that kind of keyboard. For budget-minded fans, as far as I can tell so far the Royal Kludge RK84 is the only decent keyboard with a usable USB hub, but it's cheap plastic chassis and keycaps are quite the turnoff. Hopefully something decent shows up in the market that mixes the best of mechanical keyboards with the very basic user experience of using a laptop.
zamadatix 2y ago
For most the "USB passthrough" section at the end covers the need of plugging a device and/or a headset in without needing a full hubs worth of devices sticking out of the keyboard. In general though the more functionally useful a keyboard would be the fewer options you'll find. I think a large part of it is many buyers are more worried about maximizing the aesthetics of the keyboard rather than creating a swiss army knife of a keyboard so that's what is easier to find.
adrian_b 2y ago
I prefer USB ports on the monitor, which can have a higher speed without creating problems. Most keyboards are designed for low speed USB links, not even for USB 2.0. Having to replace the cheap cable normally used by keyboards with an expensive cable, at the great cable length that is desirable for a keyboard, would raise the cost with negligible benefits. Many PCs have additional USB 2.0 ports for slow peripherals, i.e. mainly for keyboards, mice or graphic tablets. A keyboard with a USB hub suitable for a USB memory would need to use a USB 3 port on the PC, occupying a port that might have been better used for other peripherals, while leaving unused the slow USB ports.

nanook 2y ago

Why do they never make these with 4 modifier keys on the left side like Mac keyboards(Ctrl, Fn, Alt, Cmd)? Hate not being able to use muscle memory switching between my MBP and an external keyboard.

zamadatix 2y ago
The standard first 3 R4 keys (control, option/alt, command/win) are 1.25x width while the "true" Mac layout has those at 1x width to prevent the spacebar from having to migrate too far to the right (even though it's still a bit farther right than normal). This means to serve the niche of fn muscle memory users of the niche of Mac keyboard users you not only need the create the custom positional layout but custom keycaps (and the board/firmware you build it with must support layers to do fn in the first place). Then when you do all of this these people will still probably be uninterested because it's not some additional niche design criteria (70% vs 100%, low profile vs full size, split vs not, yadda yadda) anyways. All that is to say, there's a lot more going against it than just repositioning 1 key would seem. I had a coworker who liked https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/mk-lowkey70-black https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/mk-lowkey70-black. Basically "an external version of the MacBook keyboard with hotswap switches, RGB, and caps". Dunno that I've seen any full sized variants of the Mac layout though.
- nanook 2y ago
  > niche of Mac keyboard users Is it a niche though? Logitech, cheap BT keyboards etc mostly stick to this layout. And it's not just the left side that is the issue - they move fn to the right in place of the alt key. Can't cmd-alt-i with 1 hand anymore! The only other keyboards I've seen with this mac-like layout are - - https://nuphy.com/collections/keyboards/products/nutype-f1?variant=32851509870701 https://nuphy.com/collections/keyboards/products/nutype-f1?v... which looks slick but I much prefer the 75% layout - https://electronicmaterialsoffice.com/ https://electronicmaterialsoffice.com/ which I can't justify paying for right now > an external version of the MacBook keyboard with hotswap switches, RGB, and caps Wow, this is almost exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks for the rec! It's a shame they don't ship to where I am right now. I'll try to pick one up next time I travel.

gtani 2y ago

For anybody that's at some stage of keeb curious but overwhelmed by info, look up keyboard meetups in reddit subs /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and /r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ It's just a lot easier to ask a live human

gtani 2y ago
you can also try a decent number at best buy and maybe other specialty retailers but: with the gaming oriented brands you often have to turn down RGB effects to make them tolerable, certain brands have switches that actuate high in the range of motion and it's often not easy to tell if the switches are soldered or have swappable sockets ____________________________________________ also the latest/greatest in split ergos seem to be the svalboards, ordered a 1 finger cluster to try but have no info about them yet

rifling9798 2y ago

In our relentless pursuit of the perfect interface between mind and machine, we build monuments to our own discontent. Each click, each tactile response, each millimeter of travel becomes a meditation on what we seek but cannot name. We spend fortunes to recreate the feeling of something we've never felt, chase echoes of satisfaction that fade with each new acquisition, and find ourselves surrounded by shrines to our own restlessness. In this symphony of springs and switches, we are all apprentices to an art that has no master.

yard2010 2y ago
I have been addicted to using my mechanical keyboard for years now. It doesn't get old, I can feel the dopamine rush with every key stroke. It's magical.
Y_Y 2y ago
If only Keats had had a Model M.
- Bluestein 2y ago
  If only Keats had an LLM! :)
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    Ode on a Neural Network Thou still unraveled shape of silicon, Thou child of data and electric thought, Digital historian, who canst thus express A mathematical tale more sweetly than our prose: What leaf-fringed legend haunts thy tensored depths Of vectors or of nodes, or of both, In virtual space or clouded matrices? What parameters dance in what hidden layers? What mad pursuit? What struggle to compute? What matrices of backpropagation? How cold are those cold gradients, how sparse The lonely nodes that never can decode Their ancient patterns; and how blank the space Where each new epoch brings a fresh cascade Of weights adjusting to some distant truth That floats beyond our human comprehension's reach! O atrous convolution! fair display Of mathematical beauty born anew With every forward pass - yet still we gaze In wonder at thy deep complexity. Heard algorithms are sweet, but those unheard Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft transformers, play on; Not to the sensual ear, but, more endeared, Pipe to the spirit ditties of backprop: Fair function, beneath the nodes, thou canst not leave Thy gradients, nor ever can those trees Be pruned; bold Optimizer, never, never canst Thou kiss thy target, though thou draw'st so near! Yet do not grieve; she cannot fade, thy love Frozen in checkpoints time cannot destroy. When old age shall this generation waste, Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe Than ours, a friend to human-kind, to whom thou say'st, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know Of deep learning's vast and boundless dream.

BenFranklin100 2y ago

I’ve been very happy with the Tex Shinobi keyboard. https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi The integrated TrackPoint and retro Thinkpad styling makes typing a breeze without ever having to lift your hand off the keyboard for the mouse.

breckenedge 2y ago
I like it but not the proprietary configuration tool.

sagarpatil 2y ago

My only gripe with mechanical keyboards is there’s no version with apple touch ID (I know the technical constraints).

Findecanor 2y ago
There is a guy who is modding his Magic Keyboard 2 with Touch ID into a mechanical keyboard, with preserved touch ID functionality: <https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0>

ldjkfkdsjnv 2y ago

hhkb

sagarpatil 2y ago

As someone who recently moved from a mechanical keyboard to apple keyboard, the closest thing that can imitate the mechanical key sound is through this macos app: https://tryklack.com/ https://tryklack.com/

tehnub 2y ago

- Miryoku - BastardKB keyboard - Asymplex DES key caps

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

I'm sitting in my bunker, on the far side of the moon. Typing on this old clunker, ready to fire my death-rays soon! Alle Jahre wieder mach ich den neumodischen Kram nieder! http://xahlee.info/kbd/marquardt_mini_ergo_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/marquardt_mini_ergo_keyboard.html https://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Mini-Ergo https://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Mini-Ergo (Yes Yes, it has been modded meanwhile, electronically only, not mechanically. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector to PS/2 to USB, via modded early QMK. As did the others which I've gotten in reserve meanwhile :))

NotYourLawyer 2y ago

Not a word about Model M or Model F keyboards. Weird, they’re so much better than any of the stuff in this article.