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Paris to Berlin by train is now faster by five hours
- pyrale 2y agoYou could get from Paris to Berlin by train with one change, and it was about the same train time, plus maybe 1/2h of wait at frankfurt. This title is extremely misleading.
- tarkin2 2y agoSomeone add "direct" before train?
- plantain 2y agoThe number 1 rule of European (esp. German) train travel is - minimize changes as much as possible. Timetables are so unreliable that booking a long trip with a change is just too much risk.
- ant6n 2y agoGoing Paris to Berlin implies a change in Frankfurt. If you miss your connection, but you have a through-ticket, you can pick the next train to Berlin. There’s a train from Frankfurt to Berlin like twice an hour or so. Sure it sucks missing a connection, but in this direction is not so bad. In the other direction on the other hand…
- superjan 2y agoDoes this also apply to “supersparpreis” tickets? i occasionally use DB but I find the pricing options and rules confusing.
- nh2 2y agoYes, if your delay is caused by DB, and the next train that continues your journey is an hour later, you can take that even with the super saver ticket. The DB Navigator app can now "even" show that your you are no longer bound to specific trains when that happens, with a little banner in the top.
- plantain 2y agoExcept you lose your reserved seat and end up sitting on the floor for hours, crammed in with everyone else who missed that connection. Then you get the pleasure of arguing with DB about compensation. Of course, only possible by post.
- inglor_cz 2y agoProvided that you didn't miss the connection due to a delay. German railways are not an etalon of punctuality anymore, the infrastructure has rotten due to years of neglect.
- generic92034 2y ago> German railways are not an etalon of punctuality anymore, the infrastructure has rotten due to years of neglect. But as compensation the holy debt brake (Schuldenbremse) persists! That should make future generations very happy, while driving their horse teams over clay paths. /s
- inglor_cz 2y agoGermany had major budget surpluses until 2019 [0]. But that money wasn't spent on investments. It is not just question of raw money itself; Germany needs to change its very attitude to spending, preferring investments into the future, otherwise all that borrowed money once the Schuldenbremse is lifted will be wasted too. [0] https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-budget https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-budget
- RamblingCTO 2y agoI'm wondering if these tracks have digital signal boxes. That's one of the biggest problems with the German rail system: analogue signal boxes where an awful lot still needs personell to operate. Right now is a sick season, so you get reduced connections.
- fl0id 2y agoYou mean etcs? These are not new tracks, so they will or will not same as before.
- fl0id 2y agoLast I heard, retrofitting etc was also put on hold due to austerity measures.
- Propelloni 2y agoIt depends, but not on TEN-T [1] routes, which this one is. [1] https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment/trans-european-transport-network-ten-t_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...
- usr1106 2y agoThere are at least 3 generations in use: Purely mechanical ones, relay based (which is digital), semi-conductor based computers of various age. I don't think analog computers have been used in any phase. I would not be surprised if purely mechanical ones achieve higher reliability than some generations of digital ones. But many small signal boxes are vulnerable if there is not enough staff, which has been a common problem for a couple of years. Naturally mechanical signal boxes are very limited in their range.
- maxnoe 2y agoThe headline is BS. At least completely misleading. They only compare to some strange, Russian direct train. The reference should be the current best connection, which would have one train switch. The difference between this new connection and the fastest connection with one switch is ~15 minutes.
- MoreMoore 2y agoI wonder how often that one switch is plagued by delays which turn those 15 minutes into significantly longer times, and cause propagating delays throughout the system.
- fl0id 2y agoNot that often probably, as there was a 30 min switch time.
- ivan_gammel 2y agoIf you have tickets for a family with seat reservation, any problem with the switch can be very annoying, especially if the second train is full. It’s definitely not the same as direct train.
- orloffm 2y agoIt's not strange, there was a Moscow-Paris train before Covid-19.
- ivan_gammel 2y agoThat Russian train was optimized for long distance experience and had sleeper cars. It was pretty good and could have been better if it was traveling the same speed as the new train. We need more of such trains in Europe.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jotaen 2y ago> One-way fares from €59.99 second class or €69.99 first class. The “from” bit is worth to stress here: with DB (German railway company), one-way fares may be up to €233.00 for second class or €384.00 for first class, depending on demand, the cancellation policy you choose, and how long you book in advance. Seat reservations are extra.
- RandomThoughts3 2y agoI pay more than that to go back to my hometown by TGV which is less than 200km away from Paris and that’s with a subscription giving access to preferential prices. There is no way Paris-Berlin is going to be this cheap. From experience I expect the train to be at least twice more expensive than flying. Having worked a few years with SNCF, it can’t be otherwise. It’s the most mismanaged company I have ever worked for, gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting.
- jcmp 2y agoThe price really depends how much in advance you are booking, DB price are outrages on the same day but unbelivable cheap three weeks before, i really dont get the business logic behind that, the spread is like 19.99 to 240
- jotaen 2y agoI forgot to mention that the price ranges I cited refer to DB (German railway company); I’ve edited my initial post to clarify. I don’t know the pricing at SNCF (French railway company).
- simgt 2y ago> gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting I've heard that before, but usually from the crowd that wants to privatise the whole country anyway. I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources? Surely, the amount of money they pour onto Cap Gemini and many other consulting firms to rebuild existing systems instead of having teams in-house who could maintain them must have an impact on ticket costs...
- alismayilov 2y agoDoes anybody have experience in China? I heard a lot that their train system is much better at this point. So, for example, the same distance will take almost two times less in China.
- onetokeoverthe 2y agoA hypothetical US equivalent of China's high speed 300km/hour rail could do US coast to coast in under 24 hours.
- RandomThoughts3 2y agoIt’s brand new and they have put in place modern technologies everywhere. So it works very well. Amusingly, China uses pieces of technology which were developed in Europe for its train system. Signalling is a good exemple (CTCS is basically ETCS). Europe is as usual deploying at a snail pace while China put it everywhere. It was obvious from the start it would end up this way. China is an actual country while Europe is a loose collection of countries which don’t really like each other supposedly spearheaded by Germany which actually only cares about pushing policies in its own interest and actively hinder anything else, and France which remains stuck thirty years in the past and is actively being sabotaged by most of the things the EU forces it to do regarding infrastructure (more true in energy than in rail that being said).
- oceanplexian 2y agoThe New York Central 999 broke 160km/hr in the 19th century. The US had commercial express train service running at similar speeds in the early 1900s. Outside the TGV Europe isn’t a few years behind they are like a century behind.
- maartenscholl 2y agoI guess it is a century behind because Europe hasn't scrapped their commuter rail for roads. I took a train from Manhattan today and its theoretical max speed is 110 mile/h, so the US has fallen behind Europe by your logic.
- oceanplexian 2y ago8 hours to go 1000km? You could fly from NYC to Berlin which is 6x the distance and the American would get there at the same time as their counterpart leaving Paris. For people traveling there rail networks is it like a tourist thing for train buffs? At least with a maglev train you can make the case that the it might be on par with an equivalent flight.
- kidk 2y agoYou can't just compare flight time vs time on train: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42500989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42500989
- pbsds 2y agoTrains are more comfy, almost silent and way more convenient. You don't have to start traveling to the airport 3 hours in advance. There is also this little silly thing people talk about called global warming
- paganel 2y agoOf course we do value our travelling time greatly here in Europe, hence why RyanAir is a big thing, i.e. even though we're treated as worst than cattle people still choose it because of the (low) prices and because of those much shorter travel times. News items like this one are just propaganda pieces pushed from top to down by the mainstream media in a futile (imo) attempt to convince the uncivilised and not-environmentally friendly masses that there is a good-enough alternative to cheap flights. There isn't, cause these train-rides are both a lot more expensive and they take a lot more time compared to taking RyanAir. Basically the well-off middle-classes and higher have become a little scared that their summer properties located just a few meters from the seashore might get damaged in any one way (rising sea levels, stronger storms etc), ditto for their other properties located in the middle of forest somewhere close to a mountain (like forest fires), and hence why they try (through the mainstream media that they fully control) to tie us down to where we currently happen to live, no more tourist-ing to Cyprus, the Cyclades in Greece or to Southern Spain in order to have a cheaper glass of beer (or several more), and, God forbid, trying to have some (short-lived) proletarian fun in this stressful life.
- 2y ago
- kidk 2y agoFrom city center to city center by train vs airplane Rough estimate for a flight: - 36 min train from Gare de l’Est to Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport - 90 min arrival before your flight (security, check-in, gate closes before flight leaves, ..) - 100 min flight time - 20 min getting out of the airport - 30 min taxi to Berlin Hbf (assuming no traffic) I think if you have large bags you can add an extra hour (max) even as check-in will take longer, and you'll have to wait for your bag. Which makes it 8,5 hours vs 4.6 hours, or 5.6 hours with bags. (I added 30 minutes to the train as you probably need to be there a little early.) Having done this a couple of times (Amsterdam to Berlin, which is about the same) with both modes of transport. I have to say I prefer the train if I have the time. Much more relaxed way of transportation. You can work the whole way there, and there are ok lunch options on the train.
- pantalaimon 2y agoThere is also a night train, which I find even more convenient for long distances. Sure it’s slower, but you’ll spend most of the time sleeping and it saves you one night at a hotel. https://www.nightjet.com/de/reiseziele/frankreich https://www.nightjet.com/de/reiseziele/frankreich
- martijnarts 2y agoThe night trains are great. It's quite comfortable, you get there in the morning allowing for a full day (after dropping off your bags at the hotel) of work/tourism, and I especially hope Nightjet and other night train companies converts all of their trains to the modern mini cabins[0]. They're incredible. [0]: https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet-new-generation.htm#mini-cabins https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet-new-genera...
- jcmp 2y agoIts cool that there is another train connections, saving time and has no need to switch trains! Also kind a funny to see in the comments that a lot of people counter the good news with some kind of bad takes about the german rail way. Just be happy about the new connection :)
- vinni2 2y agoHere in Norway unfortunately flying is still the fastest mode of transportation between major cities. It takes 7-8 hours between Bergen and Oslo for example. For frequent business travelers it’s not a feasible option. I wish the government was prioritizing improving trains and rail infrastructure but instead they are investing heavily on highways and electric flights.
- laurencerowe 2y agoIt is an absolutely stunning train journey though.
- badgersnake 2y agoInfernal will be happy. I heard their heart is hungry for love.
- coldtea 2y agoFaster by five hours? It shouldn't even be 3-4 hours total, with the speeds modern trains can achieve... I guess that's the improvement (from some slow train to a faster version).
- thrance 2y agoUntil we factor in the cost of a plane trip to the community into the ticket price (ie carbon tax), trains will not be able to compete with air travel for transeuropean trips.
- pjmlp 2y agoIn optimal case, where trains don't get cancelled, or stop endless times in the middle of nowhere.