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Not really. AMD is constitutionally incapable of shipping anything but mid range hardware that requires no innovation. The only reason why they are doing so w

Not really. AMD is constitutionally incapable of shipping anything but mid range hardware that requires no innovation. The only reason why they are doing so well in CPUs right now is that Intel has basically destroyed itself without any outside help.

perching_aix 2y ago
And I'm supposed to believe that HN is this amazing platform for technology and science discussions, totally unlike its peers...
- zamadatix 2y ago
  The above take is worded a bit cynical but is their general approach to GPUs lately across the board e.g. https://www.techpowerup.com/326415/amd-confirms-retreat-from-the-enthusiast-gpu-segment-to-focus-on-gaining-market-share https://www.techpowerup.com/326415/amd-confirms-retreat-from... Also I'd take HN as being being an amazing platform for the overall consistency and quality of moderation. Anything beyond that depends more on who you're talking to than where at.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Maybe be the change you want to see and tell us what the real story is?
  - perching_aix 2y ago
    We seem to disagree on what the change in the world I'd like to see is like, which is a real shocker I'm sure. Personally, I think that's when somebody who has no real information to contribute doesn't try to pretend that they do. So thanks for the offer, but I think I'm already delivering on that realm.
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      Oh, there's basically no chance of getting that on the Internet. The Internet is a machine that highly simplifies the otherwise complex technical challenge of wide-casting ignorance. It wide-casts wisdom too, but it's an exercise for the reader to distinguish them.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  I don't really care what you believe. Everyone whose dug deep into what AMD is doing has left in disgust if they are lucky and bankruptcy if they are not. If I can save someone else from wasting $100,000 on hardware and six months of their life then my post has done more good than the AMD marketing department ever will.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > If I can save someone else from wasting $100,000 on hardware and six months of their life then my post has done more good than the AMD marketing department ever will. This seems like unuseful advice if you've already given up on them. You tried it and at some point in the past it wasn't ready. But by not being ready they're losing money, so they have a direct incentive to fix it. Which would take a certain amount of time, but once you've given up you no longer know if they've done it yet or not, at which point your advice would be stale. Meanwhile the people who attempt it apparently seem to get acquired by Nvidia, for some strange reason. Which implies it should be a worthwhile thing to do. If they've fixed it by now which you wouldn't know if you've stopped looking, or they fix it in the near future, you have a competitive advantage because you have access to lower cost GPUs than your rivals. If not, but you've demonstrated a serious attempt to fix it for everyone yourself, Nvidia comes to you with a sack full of money to make sure you don't finish, and then you get a sack full of money. That's win/win, so rather than nobody doing it, it seems like everybody should be doing it.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      I've tried it three times. I've seen people try it every six months for two decades now. At some point you just have to accept that AMD is not a serious company, but is a second rate copycat and there is no way to change that without firing everyone from middle management up. I'm deeply worried about stagnation in the CPU space now that they are top dog and Intel is dead in the water. Here's hoping China and Risk V save us. >Meanwhile the people who attempt it apparently seem to get acquired by Nvidia Everyone I've seen base jumping has gotten a sponsorship from redbull, ergo. everyone should basejump. Ignore the red smears around the parking lot.
ksec 2y ago
Everything is comparative. AMD isn't perfect. As an Ex Shareholder I have argued they did well partly because of Intel's downfall. In terms of execution it is far from perfect. But Nvidia is a different beast. It is a bit like Apple in the late 00s where you take business, forecast, marketing, operation, software, hardware, sales etc You take any part of it and they are all industry leading. And having industry leading capability is only part of the game, having it all work together is completely another thing. And unlike Apple where they lost direction once Steve Jobs passed away and weren't sure about how to deploy capital. Jensen is still here, and they have more resources now making Nvidia even more competitive. It is often most people underestimate the magnitude of the task required, ( I like to tell the story again about an Intel GPU engineer in 2016 arguing they could take dGPU market shares by 2020, and we are now 2025 ), over estimate the capability of an organisation, under estimate the rival's speed of innovation and execution. These three thing combined is why most people are often off the estimate by an order of magnitude.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Yeah, no. We are in the middle of a monopoly squeeze by NVidia on the most innovative part of the economy right now. I expect the DOJ to hit them harder than they did MS in the 90s given the bullshit they are pulling and the drag on the economy they are causing. By comparison if AMD could write a driver that didn't shit itself when it had to multiply more than two matrices in a row they'd be selling cards faster than they can make them. You don't need to sell the best shovels in a gold rush to make mountains of money, but you can't sell teaspoons as premium shovels and expect people to come back.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >I expect the DOJ to hit them harder than they did MS in the 90s given the bullshit they are pulling and the drag on the economy they are causing. It sounds like you're expecting extreme competence from the DOJ. Given their history with regulating big tech companies, and even worse, the incoming administration, I think this is a very unrealistic expectation.
  - kadoban 2y ago
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
It had to destroy itself. These companies do not act on their own...
adrian_b 2y ago
In CPUs, AMD has made many innovations that have been copied by Intel only after many years and this delay had an important contribution to Intel's downfall. The most important has been the fact that AMD has predicted correctly that big monolithic CPUs will no longer be feasible in the future CMOS fabrication technologies, so they have designed the Zen family since the beginning with a chiplet-based architecture. Intel had attempted to ridicule them, but after losing many billions they have been forced to copy this strategy. Also in the microarchitecture of their CPUs AMD has made the right choices since the beginning and then they have improved it constantly with each generation. The result is that now the latest Intel big core, Lion Cove, has a microarchitecture that is much more similar to AMD Zen 5 than to any of the previous Intel cores, because they had to do this to get a competitive core. In the distant past, AMD has also introduced a lot of innovations long before they were copied by Intel, but it is true that those had not been invented by AMD, but they had been copied by AMD from more expensive CPUs, like DEC Alpha or Cray or IBM POWER, but Intel has also copied them only after being forced by the competition with AMD.

perching_aix 2y ago

And I'm supposed to believe that HN is this amazing platform for technology and science discussions, totally unlike its peers...

zamadatix 2y ago
The above take is worded a bit cynical but is their general approach to GPUs lately across the board e.g. https://www.techpowerup.com/326415/amd-confirms-retreat-from-the-enthusiast-gpu-segment-to-focus-on-gaining-market-share https://www.techpowerup.com/326415/amd-confirms-retreat-from... Also I'd take HN as being being an amazing platform for the overall consistency and quality of moderation. Anything beyond that depends more on who you're talking to than where at.
petesergeant 2y ago
Maybe be the change you want to see and tell us what the real story is?
- perching_aix 2y ago
  We seem to disagree on what the change in the world I'd like to see is like, which is a real shocker I'm sure. Personally, I think that's when somebody who has no real information to contribute doesn't try to pretend that they do. So thanks for the offer, but I think I'm already delivering on that realm.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    Oh, there's basically no chance of getting that on the Internet. The Internet is a machine that highly simplifies the otherwise complex technical challenge of wide-casting ignorance. It wide-casts wisdom too, but it's an exercise for the reader to distinguish them.
llm_trw 2y ago
I don't really care what you believe. Everyone whose dug deep into what AMD is doing has left in disgust if they are lucky and bankruptcy if they are not. If I can save someone else from wasting $100,000 on hardware and six months of their life then my post has done more good than the AMD marketing department ever will.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > If I can save someone else from wasting $100,000 on hardware and six months of their life then my post has done more good than the AMD marketing department ever will. This seems like unuseful advice if you've already given up on them. You tried it and at some point in the past it wasn't ready. But by not being ready they're losing money, so they have a direct incentive to fix it. Which would take a certain amount of time, but once you've given up you no longer know if they've done it yet or not, at which point your advice would be stale. Meanwhile the people who attempt it apparently seem to get acquired by Nvidia, for some strange reason. Which implies it should be a worthwhile thing to do. If they've fixed it by now which you wouldn't know if you've stopped looking, or they fix it in the near future, you have a competitive advantage because you have access to lower cost GPUs than your rivals. If not, but you've demonstrated a serious attempt to fix it for everyone yourself, Nvidia comes to you with a sack full of money to make sure you don't finish, and then you get a sack full of money. That's win/win, so rather than nobody doing it, it seems like everybody should be doing it.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    I've tried it three times. I've seen people try it every six months for two decades now. At some point you just have to accept that AMD is not a serious company, but is a second rate copycat and there is no way to change that without firing everyone from middle management up. I'm deeply worried about stagnation in the CPU space now that they are top dog and Intel is dead in the water. Here's hoping China and Risk V save us. >Meanwhile the people who attempt it apparently seem to get acquired by Nvidia Everyone I've seen base jumping has gotten a sponsorship from redbull, ergo. everyone should basejump. Ignore the red smears around the parking lot.

ksec 2y ago

Everything is comparative. AMD isn't perfect. As an Ex Shareholder I have argued they did well partly because of Intel's downfall. In terms of execution it is far from perfect. But Nvidia is a different beast. It is a bit like Apple in the late 00s where you take business, forecast, marketing, operation, software, hardware, sales etc You take any part of it and they are all industry leading. And having industry leading capability is only part of the game, having it all work together is completely another thing. And unlike Apple where they lost direction once Steve Jobs passed away and weren't sure about how to deploy capital. Jensen is still here, and they have more resources now making Nvidia even more competitive. It is often most people underestimate the magnitude of the task required, ( I like to tell the story again about an Intel GPU engineer in 2016 arguing they could take dGPU market shares by 2020, and we are now 2025 ), over estimate the capability of an organisation, under estimate the rival's speed of innovation and execution. These three thing combined is why most people are often off the estimate by an order of magnitude.

llm_trw 2y ago
Yeah, no. We are in the middle of a monopoly squeeze by NVidia on the most innovative part of the economy right now. I expect the DOJ to hit them harder than they did MS in the 90s given the bullshit they are pulling and the drag on the economy they are causing. By comparison if AMD could write a driver that didn't shit itself when it had to multiply more than two matrices in a row they'd be selling cards faster than they can make them. You don't need to sell the best shovels in a gold rush to make mountains of money, but you can't sell teaspoons as premium shovels and expect people to come back.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >I expect the DOJ to hit them harder than they did MS in the 90s given the bullshit they are pulling and the drag on the economy they are causing. It sounds like you're expecting extreme competence from the DOJ. Given their history with regulating big tech companies, and even worse, the incoming administration, I think this is a very unrealistic expectation.
- kadoban 2y ago

lofaszvanitt 2y ago

It had to destroy itself. These companies do not act on their own...

adrian_b 2y ago

In CPUs, AMD has made many innovations that have been copied by Intel only after many years and this delay had an important contribution to Intel's downfall. The most important has been the fact that AMD has predicted correctly that big monolithic CPUs will no longer be feasible in the future CMOS fabrication technologies, so they have designed the Zen family since the beginning with a chiplet-based architecture. Intel had attempted to ridicule them, but after losing many billions they have been forced to copy this strategy. Also in the microarchitecture of their CPUs AMD has made the right choices since the beginning and then they have improved it constantly with each generation. The result is that now the latest Intel big core, Lion Cove, has a microarchitecture that is much more similar to AMD Zen 5 than to any of the previous Intel cores, because they had to do this to get a competitive core. In the distant past, AMD has also introduced a lot of innovations long before they were copied by Intel, but it is true that those had not been invented by AMD, but they had been copied by AMD from more expensive CPUs, like DEC Alpha or Cray or IBM POWER, but Intel has also copied them only after being forced by the competition with AMD.