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Apple must ensure interoperability of iPhone with rivals, says EU
- behnamoh 2y agoI hope this happens. Sometimes Apple must be saved from itself. Ironically, this would be better for the iOS ecosystem.
- jitl 2y agoIdk all the people in my friend group who started on Android have ended up on iOS so they can participate in these Apple only features. It seems the ecosystem is already doing great and getting people to switch is not a problem at least here in the US.
- tantalor 2y agoWhich features?
- jitl 2y agoRoughly in order of FOMO iMessage, AirDrop, Find My Friends, AirPlay, WiFi password sharing, iPhoto sharing
- dismalaf 2y agoSo things any smartphone can do but stuck behind proprietary apps and/or protocols?
- orf 2y agoSamsung doesn’t have airdrop: it uploads everything to a bucket and you share a public link to download. Your private stuff. That you want to share to the person next to you. That’s the difference with all of those “any smartphone can do it” features and what’s available on iOS.
- dqv 2y agoThat is not correct. It uses Bluetooth and Wi-Fi Direct just like AirDrop does. I just shared a video from a Samsung phone to a Motorola phone. Both had Wi-Fi and mobile data turned off. Unless there is some conspiracy where both devices secretly connect to Samsung servers for the exchange, what you are saying is not correct.
- orf 2y agoIt depends on how you do it: the QR code, link, long-distance or text-message process does indeed upload to Samsung servers. https://www.samsung.com/uk/apps/quick-share/?srsltid=AfmBOor6lwOefe4RUW_7UGlcloPalOnovUo7Rjq-fKBN5wDnSQCepfNJ https://www.samsung.com/uk/apps/quick-share/?srsltid=AfmBOor...
- dismalaf 2y agoAndroid Quick Share can share with nearby devices, just like Airdrop, OR can share longer distances with your contacts. How it works depends on how you attempt to share the file and where the recipient is. Also both wifi direct file sharing and Bluetooth file sharing have been things forever. I had a ~15 year old mostly dumb camera that did it. Also the app "Bump" did this many years ago, was on both iOS and Android. Other apps probably did/do as well. I personally think it's useless but it's always been a thing.
- tantalor 2y agoAndroid has all of these features? iMessage = Google Messages (with RCS), works on web too AirDrop = Nearby Share Find My Friends = Google Maps Location sharing AirPlay = Chromecast WiFi password sharing = WiFi "share network" -> QR code iPhoto sharing = Google photos sharing
- jitl 2y agoI’m not saying these features only exist in iOS, but for the most part they’re not mutually compatible between OSs. So everyone needs to be using the same OS to enjoy the feature. For some reason the Android people switched to iOS to use those things with the existing iOS people, rather than the iOS people switching to Android.
- tantalor 2y agoHence the demand for interoperability
- behnamoh 2y ago> It seems the ecosystem is already doing great and getting people to switch ... They shouldn't have to switch, but Apple forces them to do so by imposing artificial limitations on other platforms. But the same Apple is more than happy with providing the Apple Music app on Android as a means to boost their music revenue...
- pridkett 2y ago> But the same Apple is more than happy with providing the Apple Music app on Android as a means to boost their music revenue... Exactly. On the other platforms they provide services because the services provide revenue. The big two things that people say Apple needs to open up are Messages and FaceTime - both of which cost Apple money to maintain and don’t have independent revenue streams. Airplay and CarPlay have similar development costs and I’d imagine that Apple would like to be able to continue to evolve their software without getting blamed for being anti-competitive because they broke some company’s flawed integration. I’d imagine if Apple said “sure, we’ll open up FaceTime, Messages, Airplay, and CarPlay to Android devices as part of our Apple One subscription” you’d have people up in arms because Apple was charging for it. Which lays bare the challenge - for many it’s about wanting these services for free on a platform where Apple receives no revenue.
- WWLink 2y agoDare I say it, if you convince 60% of the US to communicate on your platform exclusively, you deserve to be hit hard with an antitrust violation. IMHO iMessage should be broken off from Apple and they shouldn't be allowed to run a messaging platform like this.
- matheusmoreira 2y agoAntitrust is good but it's treating the symptom, not the disease. The disease is the fact it's illegal to crack open their locks. We need their permission to interoperate. If we don't have it, we're criminals if we try. All we need to do is legalize reverse engineering and circumvention for the purposes of interoperability. In less than a year the iMessage nonsense will be solved because all competing platforms will add support for its protocols whether they want it or not. They'll try to make it hard to do it but it won't matter. Adversarial interoperability should be the norm. They shouldn't have a choice in whether they are interoperated with. It should just happen organically. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interoperability https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...
- margana 2y agoThe lack of awareness of this post is incredible. Apple is leveraging intentional incompatibility to make people use social pressure on each other to switch to Apple. That is not a good thing. This is a great example of why interoperability is necessary - "become an Apple customer or be ostracized" is not something people should be constantly threatened with.
- joeblubaugh 2y agoThe “Overview of Proposed Measures” is worth a read. They want to force Apple to let any device use AirDrop and AirPlay. No such similar requirement for Android Cast, of course. https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/document/download/8f28e456-5bd4-4b33-af95-b9f52aeb8a03_en?filename=DMA.100203%20-%20Overview%20of%20proposed%20measures.pdf https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/document/download/8...
- joeblubaugh 2y agoAnother one that surprised me was the “share WiFi credentials” feature. Not too psyched about any shitty device being allowed to pup that notification up on my phone.
- jitl 2y agoI think the Apple one is limited to people you are somehow iCloud “friends” with, I’ve never seen a prompt for someone I don’t know
- tm-infringement 2y agoYou mean "Automatic Wi-Fi connection" section? Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it seems that it's actually about something already fully paired (e.g Smartwatch) having access to the WiFi like the Apple Watch.
- 2y ago
- greenthrow 2y agoWhy the legal focus on Apple when Android devices are much more popular and Google and other providers have plenty of locked features?
- tapoxi 2y agoYou can use any smartwatch or earbuds with Android, there aren't private Google-only APIs for those things. Apple also has a big enough marketshare to matter to the DMA.
- Retric 2y agoI think the question is why they aren’t also forcing Android Cast etc to work with Apple.
- enragedcacti 2y agoOne reason may be that it already works with iOS devices? https://developers.google.com/cast/docs/ios_sender https://developers.google.com/cast/docs/ios_sender
- herbstein 2y agoYou mean Chromecast? Which does work from iPhones?
- st3fan 2y agoChromecast only works from iOS for apps that have integrated with the Chromecast SDK. Like Netflix and Youtube. Maybe the EU can ask Google to open Chromecast up so Apple can integrate it into iOS. Then you can use it from any app without needing special integrations.
- tick_tock_tick 2y agoIt is open.... Apple just refuses to implement it.
- foolofat00k 2y agoVery honestly hope this stuff is all gated behind eu-only products/flags. The thing that EU regulators don't seem to get is that I (and many others) have knowingly and intentionally opted in to this walled garden. It's simple, it generally works, it's relatively secure, and I don't give a half a shit about the cost. I do not want or need competition to drive down the price because I do not care about the price. It's a luxury product. If the end result of this regulation was better software, better hardware, and better co-design, then I'd be all for it, but this just isn't going to be the case. We're just going to end up wading through sea of shitty, malware-ridden third-party bullshit that provides near-zero benefit to mainline apple consumers. At least as likely as a positive outcome is that the experience for mainline apple consumers will get worse because Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability instead of feature development.
- irusensei 2y agoI wish there was a way to move my account to the US so I can get the best experience and tools instead of having to live through this digital iron curtain the EU regulators created. Who is using alternative app stores anyway? I surely don't.
- anon7000 2y agoSince when is forcing a company to give you more options considered an “iron curtain”?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y agoIt's wild to watch hackers say shit that could have come straight outta the Apple marketing/legal department verbatim.
- irusensei 2y agoI can hack my desktop machine all I want. I prefer my phone walled. If I ever wanted to hack my phone I would buy some pixel device.
- behnamoh 2y agoThe number of Apple apologists in this thread is why we can't have nice things with Apple.
- Cumpiler69 2y agoUnfortunately HN is an Apple fanboy club. Any criticism to Apple the company or their devices always gets taken personally as a direct criticism to their users and you get downvoted and flagged.
- mrtksn 2y agoIn the light of the new normal of the world, EU should just follow the Chinese and American ways: ban foreign social media and telecommunication devices. This way it will guarantee that there’s a market for those willing to create EU specific devices and meanwhile will take back control of its comms. The EU way of open market through regulations doesn’t seem to make anybody happy. Banning worked wonders for China, Russia and USA. Nobody seems to be complaining. The claim is that AI can write the software, ban everything and tell ChatGPT o3 to write you the alternative :)
- stavros 2y ago> The EU way of open market through regulations doesn’t seem to make anybody happy. Makes me, and probably every other EU consumer, super happy.
- betaby 2y ago> Makes me, and probably every other EU consumer, super happy. We wouldn't know, unless you said that. On a USA server, of course.
- stavros 2y agoAnd yet the GP assumed otherwise.
- tzekid 2y agoIt doesn't make me happy. The more the EU regulates, the less innovation we have. It's not a meme, it's reality
- zipping1549 2y agoAll those innovations can and have happen(ed) with them also being open and not anti-competitive. If Apple is not willing to bring new features because it can't build its walled garden with it, nuts to them and others will and win them. That's the whole point of competition.
- impish9208 2y ago[flagged]
- EMIRELADERO 2y ago> This is great news! We need to ensure maximum interoperability and no differentiation across different computing platforms and applications. I don't get your point here. Apple's products are differentiated from others because of their excellent integration with other Apple products (the ecosystem(tm)). If they are compelled to also open that up to third-parties, what exactly are they losing? Put a different way, are you implying people buy iDevices not only because they integrate so well with Apple's other products, but because they know other devices aren't able to? > And politicians are, of course, the most knowledgeable about these things. This doesn't make sense either. Just because you disagree with others' ideology doesn't mean they don't know anything about the subject matter. Why isn't it possible, in your view, for the relevant decision-makers in this case to know everything needed and still choose to make those decisions?
- deepfriedchokes 2y agoThis seems great but wouldn’t this just create a moat to becoming a DMA gatekeeper and entrench the current players?
- ruthmarx 2y agoThe examples to make your point are kind of silly. It can go to extreme, but clearly there is benefit in regulating and requiring interoperability in many cases. It doesn't mean innovation is going to go away.
- diebeforei485 2y ago[flagged]
- stavros 2y agoBut random expensive electronics like a rando's phone is fine?
- baegi 2y agoSure, if they also overpaid for their phone, they should enjoy the privilege of airdropping to gp. Just not from cheap devices please!
- rizky05 2y ago[dead]
- diebeforei485 2y agoMost people have one smartphone that they control and use all the time. But they have tons of other devices many of which they might never use.
- Gigachad 2y agoEven if they were interoperable this wouldn’t be a problem since airdrop is contacts only by default. So unless you’ve added your neighbours lightbulb as a contact..
- e40 2y agoYour neighbor is likely in your contacts and their lightbulbs are likely owned by them was part of their devices.
- ragazzina 2y agoThis feature existed already, I remember a time when you could transfer data over Bluetooth between completely different cellphones.
- kesava 2y agodoes this mean apple cannot come up with new features unless they support interoperability? Isn’t that taking away the incentive to innovate?
- meiraleal 2y agoThe UE doesn't benefit that much from Apple's innovation, if any. But Apple's stock owners do.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoApple customers benefit immensely.
- enragedcacti 2y agoOnly if the new features violate the obligations of a DMA gatekeeper. 120Hz screen is fine, 120Hz screen that runs at 60Hz for all 3rd party apps is not. It enhances the incentive to innovate for smaller companies who would otherwise be locked out by Apple. This ruling for instance will allow smartwatch mfgs to compete with Apple on a level playing field for iOS users' money.
- behnamoh 2y agoLinux didn't stop being innovative and it's the most interoperable OS there is. No Apple excuses are accepted.
- matheusmoreira 2y agoI wish. All these walled gardens and lock in nonsense need to get wiped off the face of this earth. I'd rather they got banned and stopped existing than suffer the status quo where iPhone users look down on us inferior Android users because we got segregated by speech bubble color. Not that Android is hackable these days anyway. Remote attestation, yet another thing that needs to get banned. It should be illegal for them to discriminate against us in any way whatsoever on the basis of the hardware or software we choose to use. They should serve us whether we use iPhones or Linux on a tamagotchi.
- herf 2y agoThere are a number of places where mobile devices have replaced a "general purpose computer" - like replacing your internet connection or local/cloud photo storage. I guess it depends if you believe that these resources should interoperate when a user is paying for them. e.g., the humane pin makes you get a separate internet connection, and competing cameras devise clunky/slow ways to access your camera roll. Competing photo services have no way to sync iCloud, etc. All of these things could work like Bluetooth - be secure and relatively open, but they are not.
- skc 2y agoSometimes when you find yourself annoyed by stuff like this replace "Apple" with "Microsoft" and "iPhone" with "Windows". It's a useful way to check subconscious bias.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Cumpiler69 2y agoThank you. It's crazy how people here defend Aplle for the same anticompetitive practices Microsoft got grilled for. I still don't get how one can have blind brand loyalty to a corporation.
- wappieslurkz 2y ago> I still don't get how one can have blind brand loyalty to a corporation. Constant exposure to billion dolar driven advertising is very effective in brainwashing people into thinking of brands as friends. While the opposite is usually true. It's baffling that we allow this in our societies in such extend.
- spwa4 2y agoI think the other effect, that Apple is a status symbol, is more effective. Apple is expensive (less so than before, but still). In other words, an iphone "proves" that you are better than your neighbor. And people defend status symbols as if they're defending baby Jesus from Satan.
- wappieslurkz 2y agoAbsolutely, but I think advertising also is a major driver in the perceived importance of social status .
- wappieslurkz 2y ago-
- more_corn 2y agoiMessage or GTFO
- lifestyleguru 2y agoEU had its chance with smartphones which was murdered 15 years ago. These legal attempts to "standardize" are so miserable to watch. Instead of legal diarrhea, perhaps consider the fact that 40% of monthly paycheck goes to hell and that housing availability are killing any innovation and mobility within EU.