7 ms·

Is Oracle a factor? Does a Kotlin codebase have more safety from a legal perspective?

by chasil 2y ago

nradov 2y ago
The legal issues around Java between Alphabet and Oracle are settled at this point and no longer a risk for third-party software vendors. But it's pretty clear that Android is moving away from Java, so anyone with a strategic commitment to that platform has to plan around that reality.
- retrodaredevil 2y ago
  It's safe to say that Android is definitely moving away from Java in terms of new language features. I mean, if you want to support older Android versions and use modern Java features or newer parts of standard libraries, you'll usually have to rely on desugaring or making sure you're using classes that are supported in Android. IMO, Android is moving away from modern versions of Java. Java and its underlying standard library will always play a big role in Android development. The way I see it, Kotlin makes a lot of sense for Android development because Kotlin can introduce new things in its standard library that make older versions of Java look ancient. It's not like you can use new Java features in Android, so using Kotlin makes people not care as much about new features of Java that are only available in modern versions of Java.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Android folks were forced to acknowledge modern Java, otherwise they would lose access to Maven Central ecosystem, as everyone adopts newer Java versions. Hence ART is updatable via Play Store since Android 12, and is currently on Java 17 LTS.
    - wiseowise 2y ago
      Is it even full Java 17?
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Of course not, it is Android we're talking about. It is good enough Java for relevant libraries to work on Android.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  It is hard to move away from Java, when the whole JetBrains tooling, Gradle and Maven Central depend on Java ecosystem. Including the main sales pitch of Kotlin, its Interoperability with Java.
chii 2y ago
unless you're not using the jvm (which is owned by oracle, despite being opensource), you won't have any difference between kotlin and java from a legal perspective tbh.
- a57721 2y ago
  > unless you're not using the jvm (which is owned by oracle, despite being opensource) It's not "the JVM"; JVM is a spec that has many implementations, you are probably referring to Oracle JRE/JDK.

Is Oracle a factor? Does a Kotlin codebase have more safety from a legal perspective?

by chasil 2y ago

Is Oracle a factor? Does a Kotlin codebase have more safety from a legal perspective?

The legal issues around Java between Alphabet and Oracle are settled at this point and no longer a risk for third-party software vendors. But it's pretty clear that Android is moving away from Java, so anyone with a strategic commitment to that platform has to plan around that reality.

retrodaredevil 2y ago
It's safe to say that Android is definitely moving away from Java in terms of new language features. I mean, if you want to support older Android versions and use modern Java features or newer parts of standard libraries, you'll usually have to rely on desugaring or making sure you're using classes that are supported in Android. IMO, Android is moving away from modern versions of Java. Java and its underlying standard library will always play a big role in Android development. The way I see it, Kotlin makes a lot of sense for Android development because Kotlin can introduce new things in its standard library that make older versions of Java look ancient. It's not like you can use new Java features in Android, so using Kotlin makes people not care as much about new features of Java that are only available in modern versions of Java.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Android folks were forced to acknowledge modern Java, otherwise they would lose access to Maven Central ecosystem, as everyone adopts newer Java versions. Hence ART is updatable via Play Store since Android 12, and is currently on Java 17 LTS.
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    Is it even full Java 17?
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Of course not, it is Android we're talking about. It is good enough Java for relevant libraries to work on Android.
pjmlp 2y ago
It is hard to move away from Java, when the whole JetBrains tooling, Gradle and Maven Central depend on Java ecosystem. Including the main sales pitch of Kotlin, its Interoperability with Java.

chii 2y ago

unless you're not using the jvm (which is owned by oracle, despite being opensource), you won't have any difference between kotlin and java from a legal perspective tbh.

a57721 2y ago
> unless you're not using the jvm (which is owned by oracle, despite being opensource) It's not "the JVM"; JVM is a spec that has many implementations, you are probably referring to Oracle JRE/JDK.