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Was fired Facebook yoga instructor right to silence cell phone user in class?

15 points by shin_lao 14y ago

oliwarner 14y ago
Yes. It's yoga.
- gte910h 14y ago
  That feels like sarcasm, but honestly, yoga has some dangerous poses in it, I think it's not unreasonable to demand few distractions when doing something possibly dangerous.
  - Volpe 14y ago
    Like crossing a road? Or driving? That argument is fairly weak.
    - gte910h 14y ago
      Actually, exactly like those two activities. I think you're taking needless risks if you do either and use your cell phone at the same time. As do many state legislatures, with regards to the driving and phones.
  - oliwarner 14y ago
    Absolutely no sarcasm intended. Yoga is all about reaching an inner peace through physical and mental discipline. Sitting there with your phone beeping and buzzing is an offensively poor effort to do an activity well.
alxp 14y ago
I wonder how many food service workers get canned for not smiling enough at the important people.
protomyth 14y ago
"Van Ness didn’t say anything, but she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained, and it cost Van Ness her job" Perhaps the employee needs to stop taking yoga classes as their disposition isn't compatible.
citricsquid 14y ago
If someone is supposed to be the target of your attention (be it in class, at dinner or during your every day life) societal expectations should be that you give them your attention. 20 years ago you wouldn't turn on the television in the middle of a conversation, you wouldn't turn on the radio either. I can sort of understand if it's a child in high school, after all they're in class because they're required to be, however in a class that has been chosen (by an adult) it's not acceptable. The student should have excused herself from the class if it was so important her attention was elsewhere.
- Legion 14y ago
  To me, it's not even about that. It's about one person feeling they have the right to carry on as a noisy nuisance in that environment, to the detriment of everyone else's experience. If the person's activity was silent, making the only social breach ignoring the instructor, I'd be much less likely to consider that a problem in need of addressing.
caudicus 14y ago
Caution: recently minted millionaire egos at play.
- zalew 14y ago
  don't laugh, yoga gossip is serious business. comming up next: the hot dog in googleplex wasn't warm enough. stay tuned for more irrelevant crap in the next episode of 'unknown people working at famous places'.
kgrin 14y ago
Not to be overly contrarian, but I wonder to what extent the setting matters. I don't know all the details, but it sounds like it was a workplace yoga studio. What if the call was a work-related emergency? One of the virtues of having an on-site yoga studio has to be that you can take a break during the workday... but if there's a reasonable expectation of being reachable, asking everyone to leave work at the door 100% isn't totally realistic (and might mean that some people can't participate). So while the normal rules of courtesy still apply, and the person receiving the call should probably step out if the call looks like it's going to drag on, the setting does matter.
- humbledrone 14y ago
  There's a very simple solution to this problem: the cell phone user should politely walk out of the classroom and take the call outside the door. It sounds like the student in question took the call right in the classroom, which is rude regardless of the setting. Imagine taking a call in the middle of a meeting, in a conference room!
  - joezydeco 14y ago
    I really would like the ability to answer my phone with some kind of recorded message that would then go to hold. Lots of times I'd like to talk to the caller, but don't want to start talking until I'm out of the room and/or earshot. Does this exist?
    - humbledrone 14y ago
      I'm not sure about the recorded-message-then-hold thing, but Android 4.0 has a feature where when there's an incoming call, the user can hang up, answer the call, or quickly choose from a few configurable text messages to send the caller (which also hangs up the call). You could set one of those canned messages to say "Hey, I can't take your call at my present location, I will call you back in 1 minute." Not perfect, but pretty useful.
- protomyth 14y ago
  No, the setting really doesn't matter. You walk out of the class in a discrete manner. Courtesy and respect for others is universal. You certainly don't follow up your poor behavior by complaining that you got a look from an instructor.
lazerwalker 14y ago
This is silly. If you're in a class, and you disagree witih how the teacher runs things, you stop taking the class. I'd be shocked if Facebook didn't have multiple instructors. That being said, I'd hardly be shocked if there was to the story than Good Morning America is letting on.
- true_religion 14y ago
  What if you employ the teacher and tell them to allow cellphones, then they decide to run things differently?
zalew 14y ago
> she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained a real tough guy.
prodigal_erik 14y ago
Facebook is big into mobile engagement, so I suppose it's not in their interest to have social norms that involve disconnecting during daily life. But this sounds like merely a conflict between "yoga is exercise" and "yoga is new age religion" people.
true_religion 14y ago
So.... she was told that she couldn't prohibit cellphone usage in class yet she tried to embarrass a mid-level or higher executive into not using his or her cellphone? Well... if you try to shame your bosses, you get fired. This is a non-story.
erre 14y ago
Seriously? She gave him a look, and he complained? Prima donnas, are we?
RaviSParikh 14y ago
If this happened as reported, then it's a ridiculous story. As several have said one can easily walk outside and take a call if it's really that urgent. However I find that in these stories there tends to be another side to it that isn't being reported. Either way I'm not really sure why it's on Hacker News, not particularly insightful or interesting.
tptacek 14y ago
A detail you would want to have before you came to a conclusion about this: "At Facebook and a number of other institutions we work with, instructors cannot preclude fitness center users from answering their phones," David Milani, a spokesman for Plus One Health Management, which runs Facebook's gym, told me. He didn't want to tell me a lot more, other than that "there is no doubt that this instructor knew that." I don't see the issue here. This person's job was not to teach yoga. It was to make employees happier, and to increase Facebook's attractiveness in the job market. Facebook came to believe that the way she conducted her class, while perhaps effective at conveying yoga, made her less effective as an employee perk. End of story. Facebook's role here, to the extent that it invests in yoga classes, is to ensure that whoever is teaching yoga is doing so in the way that maximizes the happiness of its employees. If you want to command the respect of serious yoga students, don't teach yoga as an employee perk for hire. Think of it in these terms: people call tech support lines all the time and unleash torrents of the worst rudeness you can imagine. How long do you think a well-run call center would retain a phone support person who chided callers for impoliteness?
- joe_the_user 14y ago
  If Facebook hired an office assistant and decided that it improved employee morale to also throw marshmallows at said office assistant as they walked down the hall, well that's what that office assistant was hired for. If they complain, get another one. "End of story". If you want to be a real office assistant, go someplace else. [yes, I am being sarcastic, I believe it is illustrative in this case] Edit: Also Thomas, are you saying that employees have a right to be rude to personel of their company's helpdesk?
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I think this is a ridiculous apples-oranges comparison. The sole purpose of a yoga instructor at Facebook is to improve employee morale. Facebook is entirely justified in looking to optimize yoga instructors for employee happiness. This particular yoga intructor was apparently not a good fit.
nhebb 14y ago
Two things I find wrong with this article: 1. The headline says "silence". That conjures up imagery of the loud cell phone talker, but from the context of the article it's more likely that the yoga student was texting or emailing. 2. The article also states that "Plus One Health Management told the San Jose Mercury News that Van Ness had been told that she could not prohibit cell phone use in class." I assume that Van Ness had been advised on this before she started teaching the class not after being fired, but the article isn't explicit. It might be that if these yoga classes are offered in the middle of the day, that Facebook employees might be expected to answer important emails during class. This article is short on the facts needed to properly judge the situation.
shareme 14y ago
Chuck Norris does not allow phone calls in his yoga either..although a round house kick seems to be more effective at maintaining silence :0
loceng 14y ago
LOL. It's not yoga if it was allowed - you'd call that a fitness class then.

15 points by shin_lao 14y ago

oliwarner 14y ago

Yes. It's yoga.

gte910h 14y ago
That feels like sarcasm, but honestly, yoga has some dangerous poses in it, I think it's not unreasonable to demand few distractions when doing something possibly dangerous.
- Volpe 14y ago
  Like crossing a road? Or driving? That argument is fairly weak.
  - gte910h 14y ago
    Actually, exactly like those two activities. I think you're taking needless risks if you do either and use your cell phone at the same time. As do many state legislatures, with regards to the driving and phones.
- oliwarner 14y ago
  Absolutely no sarcasm intended. Yoga is all about reaching an inner peace through physical and mental discipline. Sitting there with your phone beeping and buzzing is an offensively poor effort to do an activity well.

alxp 14y ago

I wonder how many food service workers get canned for not smiling enough at the important people.

protomyth 14y ago

"Van Ness didn’t say anything, but she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained, and it cost Van Ness her job" Perhaps the employee needs to stop taking yoga classes as their disposition isn't compatible.

citricsquid 14y ago

If someone is supposed to be the target of your attention (be it in class, at dinner or during your every day life) societal expectations should be that you give them your attention. 20 years ago you wouldn't turn on the television in the middle of a conversation, you wouldn't turn on the radio either. I can sort of understand if it's a child in high school, after all they're in class because they're required to be, however in a class that has been chosen (by an adult) it's not acceptable. The student should have excused herself from the class if it was so important her attention was elsewhere.

Legion 14y ago
To me, it's not even about that. It's about one person feeling they have the right to carry on as a noisy nuisance in that environment, to the detriment of everyone else's experience. If the person's activity was silent, making the only social breach ignoring the instructor, I'd be much less likely to consider that a problem in need of addressing.

caudicus 14y ago

Caution: recently minted millionaire egos at play.

zalew 14y ago
don't laugh, yoga gossip is serious business. comming up next: the hot dog in googleplex wasn't warm enough. stay tuned for more irrelevant crap in the next episode of 'unknown people working at famous places'.

kgrin 14y ago

Not to be overly contrarian, but I wonder to what extent the setting matters. I don't know all the details, but it sounds like it was a workplace yoga studio. What if the call was a work-related emergency? One of the virtues of having an on-site yoga studio has to be that you can take a break during the workday... but if there's a reasonable expectation of being reachable, asking everyone to leave work at the door 100% isn't totally realistic (and might mean that some people can't participate). So while the normal rules of courtesy still apply, and the person receiving the call should probably step out if the call looks like it's going to drag on, the setting does matter.

humbledrone 14y ago
There's a very simple solution to this problem: the cell phone user should politely walk out of the classroom and take the call outside the door. It sounds like the student in question took the call right in the classroom, which is rude regardless of the setting. Imagine taking a call in the middle of a meeting, in a conference room!
- joezydeco 14y ago
  I really would like the ability to answer my phone with some kind of recorded message that would then go to hold. Lots of times I'd like to talk to the caller, but don't want to start talking until I'm out of the room and/or earshot. Does this exist?
  - humbledrone 14y ago
    I'm not sure about the recorded-message-then-hold thing, but Android 4.0 has a feature where when there's an incoming call, the user can hang up, answer the call, or quickly choose from a few configurable text messages to send the caller (which also hangs up the call). You could set one of those canned messages to say "Hey, I can't take your call at my present location, I will call you back in 1 minute." Not perfect, but pretty useful.
protomyth 14y ago
No, the setting really doesn't matter. You walk out of the class in a discrete manner. Courtesy and respect for others is universal. You certainly don't follow up your poor behavior by complaining that you got a look from an instructor.

lazerwalker 14y ago

This is silly. If you're in a class, and you disagree witih how the teacher runs things, you stop taking the class. I'd be shocked if Facebook didn't have multiple instructors. That being said, I'd hardly be shocked if there was to the story than Good Morning America is letting on.

true_religion 14y ago
What if you employ the teacher and tell them to allow cellphones, then they decide to run things differently?

zalew 14y ago

> she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained a real tough guy.

prodigal_erik 14y ago

Facebook is big into mobile engagement, so I suppose it's not in their interest to have social norms that involve disconnecting during daily life. But this sounds like merely a conflict between "yoga is exercise" and "yoga is new age religion" people.

true_religion 14y ago

So.... she was told that she couldn't prohibit cellphone usage in class yet she tried to embarrass a mid-level or higher executive into not using his or her cellphone? Well... if you try to shame your bosses, you get fired. This is a non-story.

erre 14y ago

Seriously? She gave him a look, and he complained? Prima donnas, are we?

RaviSParikh 14y ago

If this happened as reported, then it's a ridiculous story. As several have said one can easily walk outside and take a call if it's really that urgent. However I find that in these stories there tends to be another side to it that isn't being reported. Either way I'm not really sure why it's on Hacker News, not particularly insightful or interesting.

tptacek 14y ago

A detail you would want to have before you came to a conclusion about this: "At Facebook and a number of other institutions we work with, instructors cannot preclude fitness center users from answering their phones," David Milani, a spokesman for Plus One Health Management, which runs Facebook's gym, told me. He didn't want to tell me a lot more, other than that "there is no doubt that this instructor knew that." I don't see the issue here. This person's job was not to teach yoga. It was to make employees happier, and to increase Facebook's attractiveness in the job market. Facebook came to believe that the way she conducted her class, while perhaps effective at conveying yoga, made her less effective as an employee perk. End of story. Facebook's role here, to the extent that it invests in yoga classes, is to ensure that whoever is teaching yoga is doing so in the way that maximizes the happiness of its employees. If you want to command the respect of serious yoga students, don't teach yoga as an employee perk for hire. Think of it in these terms: people call tech support lines all the time and unleash torrents of the worst rudeness you can imagine. How long do you think a well-run call center would retain a phone support person who chided callers for impoliteness?

joe_the_user 14y ago
If Facebook hired an office assistant and decided that it improved employee morale to also throw marshmallows at said office assistant as they walked down the hall, well that's what that office assistant was hired for. If they complain, get another one. "End of story". If you want to be a real office assistant, go someplace else. [yes, I am being sarcastic, I believe it is illustrative in this case] Edit: Also Thomas, are you saying that employees have a right to be rude to personel of their company's helpdesk?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 14y ago
  I think this is a ridiculous apples-oranges comparison. The sole purpose of a yoga instructor at Facebook is to improve employee morale. Facebook is entirely justified in looking to optimize yoga instructors for employee happiness. This particular yoga intructor was apparently not a good fit.

nhebb 14y ago

Two things I find wrong with this article: 1. The headline says "silence". That conjures up imagery of the loud cell phone talker, but from the context of the article it's more likely that the yoga student was texting or emailing. 2. The article also states that "Plus One Health Management told the San Jose Mercury News that Van Ness had been told that she could not prohibit cell phone use in class." I assume that Van Ness had been advised on this before she started teaching the class not after being fired, but the article isn't explicit. It might be that if these yoga classes are offered in the middle of the day, that Facebook employees might be expected to answer important emails during class. This article is short on the facts needed to properly judge the situation.

shareme 14y ago

Chuck Norris does not allow phone calls in his yoga either..although a round house kick seems to be more effective at maintaining silence :0

loceng 14y ago

LOL. It's not yoga if it was allowed - you'd call that a fitness class then.