4 ms·

> I will say, the BTC appreciation is a big attraction of course What are the other desirable features of BTC?

by ForHackernews 2y ago

henry2023 2y ago
Non centralized proof of ownership is pretty cool.
- Analemma_ 2y ago
  How is it non-centralized? Basically everybody actually using crypto uses exchanges.
  - zaik 2y ago
    You don't have to.
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      he said “basically everyone” which is true. I don’t have to eat this large apple pie that is front me now but I’m about to :)
    - okanat 2y ago
      Then how would you exchange it with real money? There are few things that accept cryptographic coins as currency.
      - berkes 2y ago
        Depending on how you use it, you mightn't need to exchange it often, or at all. Companies that use it as hedge, or diversification, just need to "hold" it. Investors (not traders, there's a big difference) also commonly just "hodl" it. Also no need to exchange it. And several more such use-cases. Sure, after a while, they might want to exchange it for something they "need". Like housing, healthcare, food, materials, etc. But often that's a one-time after years of not exchanging. And we still don't know how the future may look. Some believe Bitcoin is what we'll be paying with in a few decades (I don't, not really). I'm pretty sure I can buy almost any house for a few bitcoin, especially if that's "overpriced" in dollar-terms, today already.
        lolinder 2y ago
        > Companies that use it as hedge, or diversification, just need to "hold" it. Investors (not traders, there's a big difference) also commonly just "hodl" it. Also no need to exchange it. In both of these cases the only value to "holding" it comes from the possibility of being able to exchange it if needed. While you might go a very long time without interacting with a centralized exchange, the Bitcoin is worthless for these use cases if there's no acceptable path to trading it for something else.
        berkes 2y ago
        > of being able to exchange it if needed yes. But my point is that "being able to exchange it" is what gives all assets value. From gold, via bonds to dollars. So 1) this isn't unique to crypto and 2) we should avoid narrowing this definition to "exchange crypto for dollars" because that's not true today and possibly even less in future - if only because there are other currencies already. Exchanging it for goods (i.e. buying stuff) is a killer feature of crypto only in very small niches. And exchanging it for other valuable assets isn't common either (yet? I doubt it, but don't see clear reasons why not)
lotu 2y ago
It’s great for laundering money.
- berkes 2y ago
  It is not. It's not anonymous, but pseudononymous. It's a public ledger, for everyone to copy and analyze. It's a public ledger that's mathematically proven to not have mistakes in it. Exchanges are highly regulated. KYC is rediculously tight. Sure, Bitcoin allows one to flee/fly to some criminals' paradise with their entire wealth stored in their brain (or on a napkin). And as long as they keep the money in crypto or black, it's unstoppable, really. But it's a terrible medium to turn black money into white money. One of the worst of all options, really. And that's what laundering is. Now, it's used for laundering. But that's more because its a great and easy store of value in itself. Not because a public, tracable ledger without any anonymity other than pseudonimity is a great system for laundering, because it's the exact opposite of that. And certainly, if you mix in monero, defi, otc-trades and -there they are- "corrupt bankers", crypto as a whole can turn black money into white, circumvent blockades, fund terrorism and whatnot. But hardly easier or simpler than paper-money, gold, and corrupt bankers already can.
  - bronson 2y ago
    So why is basically all ransomware paid in Bitcoin?
    - berkes 2y ago
      That's not laundering. That's getting paid. If you want to transfer money in a way that's unblockable, unceasable, and pseudonomic, Bitcoin is a good system. If you want to then convert that into dollars, it's not. Ransomware is paid in Bitcoin despite it being terrible to launder.
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    > But it's a terrible medium to turn black money into white money. Isn't that what NFTs are for? Create a stupid image, sell it on Open Sea as an NFT, bam, you've cleaned the money. Just claim it on your taxes similar to selling art and you're in the clear.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

> I will say, the BTC appreciation is a big attraction of course What are the other desirable features of BTC?

henry2023 2y ago

Non centralized proof of ownership is pretty cool.

Analemma_ 2y ago
How is it non-centralized? Basically everybody actually using crypto uses exchanges.
- zaik 2y ago
  You don't have to.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    he said “basically everyone” which is true. I don’t have to eat this large apple pie that is front me now but I’m about to :)
  - okanat 2y ago
    Then how would you exchange it with real money? There are few things that accept cryptographic coins as currency.
    - berkes 2y ago
      Depending on how you use it, you mightn't need to exchange it often, or at all. Companies that use it as hedge, or diversification, just need to "hold" it. Investors (not traders, there's a big difference) also commonly just "hodl" it. Also no need to exchange it. And several more such use-cases. Sure, after a while, they might want to exchange it for something they "need". Like housing, healthcare, food, materials, etc. But often that's a one-time after years of not exchanging. And we still don't know how the future may look. Some believe Bitcoin is what we'll be paying with in a few decades (I don't, not really). I'm pretty sure I can buy almost any house for a few bitcoin, especially if that's "overpriced" in dollar-terms, today already.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        > Companies that use it as hedge, or diversification, just need to "hold" it. Investors (not traders, there's a big difference) also commonly just "hodl" it. Also no need to exchange it. In both of these cases the only value to "holding" it comes from the possibility of being able to exchange it if needed. While you might go a very long time without interacting with a centralized exchange, the Bitcoin is worthless for these use cases if there's no acceptable path to trading it for something else.
        berkes 2y ago
        > of being able to exchange it if needed yes. But my point is that "being able to exchange it" is what gives all assets value. From gold, via bonds to dollars. So 1) this isn't unique to crypto and 2) we should avoid narrowing this definition to "exchange crypto for dollars" because that's not true today and possibly even less in future - if only because there are other currencies already. Exchanging it for goods (i.e. buying stuff) is a killer feature of crypto only in very small niches. And exchanging it for other valuable assets isn't common either (yet? I doubt it, but don't see clear reasons why not)

lotu 2y ago

It’s great for laundering money.

berkes 2y ago
It is not. It's not anonymous, but pseudononymous. It's a public ledger, for everyone to copy and analyze. It's a public ledger that's mathematically proven to not have mistakes in it. Exchanges are highly regulated. KYC is rediculously tight. Sure, Bitcoin allows one to flee/fly to some criminals' paradise with their entire wealth stored in their brain (or on a napkin). And as long as they keep the money in crypto or black, it's unstoppable, really. But it's a terrible medium to turn black money into white money. One of the worst of all options, really. And that's what laundering is. Now, it's used for laundering. But that's more because its a great and easy store of value in itself. Not because a public, tracable ledger without any anonymity other than pseudonimity is a great system for laundering, because it's the exact opposite of that. And certainly, if you mix in monero, defi, otc-trades and -there they are- "corrupt bankers", crypto as a whole can turn black money into white, circumvent blockades, fund terrorism and whatnot. But hardly easier or simpler than paper-money, gold, and corrupt bankers already can.
- bronson 2y ago
  So why is basically all ransomware paid in Bitcoin?
  - berkes 2y ago
    That's not laundering. That's getting paid. If you want to transfer money in a way that's unblockable, unceasable, and pseudonomic, Bitcoin is a good system. If you want to then convert that into dollars, it's not. Ransomware is paid in Bitcoin despite it being terrible to launder.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > But it's a terrible medium to turn black money into white money. Isn't that what NFTs are for? Create a stupid image, sell it on Open Sea as an NFT, bam, you've cleaned the money. Just claim it on your taxes similar to selling art and you're in the clear.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]