15 ms·

I've been running Ergo for the past year for my friends/family chat. I went this route because of the ease of hosting, very low resource requirements and a prot

by donio 2y ago

I've been running Ergo for the past year for my friends/family chat. I went this route because of the ease of hosting, very low resource requirements and a protocol and codebase that I feel I can understand and debug if needed. The v3 chathistory support and the always-on[1] multi-client[2] features paired with modern clients (like Goguma) go a long way at providing a modern chat environment. Most others on the server don't even know that they are using IRC. The built-in websocket support is another key feature for me since it lets me to provide a web client just by serving some static files (I use Gamja for this). [1] always-on: https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/USERGUIDE.md#always-on https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/USERGUIDE.... [2] multiclient: https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/USERGUIDE.md#multiclient https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/USERGUIDE....

nolist_policy 2y ago
Interesting, does push notification work? Will phones receive messages and notify while sleeping?
- donio 2y ago
  This explains the notification options with Goguma, the mobile client we use: https://codeberg.org/emersion/goguma/src/branch/master/doc/notifications.md https://codeberg.org/emersion/goguma/src/branch/master/doc/n... I didn't bother setting up proper push notification so we use the "Servers supporting chathistory" mode. This means that when the app is not in the foreground a workmanager task polls every few minutes. So in this mode notifications can be delayed by a few minutes which is fine for our use case.
stackskipton 2y ago
As heavy Discord user, it's nice to see that IRC is still kicking and might be available if/when Discord ZIRP gas runs out.
- arcanemachiner 2y ago
  Just think of all that information, stuck in the walled garden, away from the prying eyes of search engines or any other forms of public discoverability. Just waiting to get flushed down the drain or shoved into the training data of a future round of AI crapware...
  - ycuser2 2y ago
    IRC is also a walled garden.
    - TonyTrapp 2y ago
      IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
      - tryauuum 2y ago
        Hm, for me the definition of the walled garden is "you have to have an account to see any discussions"
        fl0id 2y ago
        Which you don’t need for irc. Also pretty sure that’s not an accurate definition as you can be walked without needing an account technically.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - sandos 2y ago
        But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
kyawzazaw 2y ago
your family and friends care enough to download and set this up?
- eddieroger 2y ago
  why would they need to download and setup a server? can't they just log in to OP's with the client of their choice?
  - kyawzazaw 2y ago
    i am asking about download the client and even registering and entering a password
    - scrapcode 2y ago
      Although I understand your point, and certainly have some friends that would feel like they're hacking the gibson connecting to an irc server, is Discord et. al really that much different?
      - kyawzazaw 2y ago
        discord is totally different. I assure you they are not going to download Signal, Whatsapp. there is massive network effect involved and inertia Even getting people to use a different messaging app (such as Facebook Messenger) already installed on their phones is difficult.
      - mikepurvis 2y ago
        It’s an inertia issue. I already have iMessage, FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and Signal as “primary” messaging apps, plus Instagram and LinkedIn and Teams as secondary— my tolerance would be basically zero for installing something else to connect with a specific person or friend group.
        prmoustache 2y ago
        That is because you already have an absurd lots of them though. I have whatsapp and conversations and that's it. I only use teams on my professional computer, you will never see me install "work" on my personal smartphone and nobody needs a linkedin app, the website is enough.
Suppafly 2y ago
>(like Goguma)(I use Gamja for this). Is everything related to potatoes lol?
- donio 2y ago
  Yep, both are by the same author (emersion) and there is definitely a running theme in the project names.
okasaki 2y ago
I think ircd is the wrong layer to attach those features to. You can run something like thelounge and have that on any server.
- qudat 2y ago
  I disagree. I run all comms for https://pico.sh https://pico.sh through IRC on libera and people really struggle to onboard into IRC. People will pop-in ask a question, then leave because they arrive to a chat that is empty and didnt see any activity in 5mins and bounce. We tried to offer a bouncer instance for users and even that had a barrier to entry because it requires creating 2 accounts: one for libera and one for pico. I think about us switching to ergo every few months because I think the onboarding experience will be much nicer. Logging into a channel for the first time and see the chat log will make people a lot more motivated to stay.
- superkuh 2y ago
  I agree. The reason IRC is so good is that it is mostly stateless and stores very little information beyond lists of IPs associated with each socket it's stuffing messages into. Once a server starts hosting for people there are a huge set of problems and pressures. IRC is the text chat layer of the internet. It's not by itself, it's part of a larger network of open protocols. If you avail yourself to these it far exceeds the capabilities of even the most featureful walled corporate garden.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
skulk 2y ago
You must have a truly mind-boggling amount of social capital to be able to switch your family/friends off of a mega platform like Discord or WhatsApp. Do you just onboard every single person who wants to talk to any of them also? Or do they see your system as "how to reach donio"
- donio 2y ago
  Nobody is on a single messaging platform these days they also use other stuff of course. They look at it as a simple way to reach this group of people.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  You'd be surprised how easy it is to move a group chat to a new platform. Often you'll need to run a couple through, but people expect to be on multiple platforms.
avhception 2y ago
I'm in the process of switching over from ngircd to ergo and have contributed a FreeBSD initscript to ergo. My little IRC community has been going on for what must be more than 15 years now. There has been a noticeable slowdown this year. Maybe it will be the end of the line in a few years. Nice to hear that at least there are others out there. I have vivid memories of the first time I connected my Nokia to a laptop and used mobile dialup-internet from the passenger seat of a car to connect to the IRC server while going down the Autobahn. Mobile internet was unheard of at the time, so it was totally exciting!

by donio 2y ago

nolist_policy 2y ago

Interesting, does push notification work? Will phones receive messages and notify while sleeping?

donio 2y ago
This explains the notification options with Goguma, the mobile client we use: https://codeberg.org/emersion/goguma/src/branch/master/doc/notifications.md https://codeberg.org/emersion/goguma/src/branch/master/doc/n... I didn't bother setting up proper push notification so we use the "Servers supporting chathistory" mode. This means that when the app is not in the foreground a workmanager task polls every few minutes. So in this mode notifications can be delayed by a few minutes which is fine for our use case.

stackskipton 2y ago

As heavy Discord user, it's nice to see that IRC is still kicking and might be available if/when Discord ZIRP gas runs out.

arcanemachiner 2y ago
Just think of all that information, stuck in the walled garden, away from the prying eyes of search engines or any other forms of public discoverability. Just waiting to get flushed down the drain or shoved into the training data of a future round of AI crapware...
- ycuser2 2y ago
  IRC is also a walled garden.
  - TonyTrapp 2y ago
    IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
    - tryauuum 2y ago
      Hm, for me the definition of the walled garden is "you have to have an account to see any discussions"
      - fl0id 2y ago
        Which you don’t need for irc. Also pretty sure that’s not an accurate definition as you can be walked without needing an account technically.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - sandos 2y ago
      But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.

kyawzazaw 2y ago

your family and friends care enough to download and set this up?

eddieroger 2y ago
why would they need to download and setup a server? can't they just log in to OP's with the client of their choice?
- kyawzazaw 2y ago
  i am asking about download the client and even registering and entering a password
  - scrapcode 2y ago
    Although I understand your point, and certainly have some friends that would feel like they're hacking the gibson connecting to an irc server, is Discord et. al really that much different?
    - kyawzazaw 2y ago
      discord is totally different. I assure you they are not going to download Signal, Whatsapp. there is massive network effect involved and inertia Even getting people to use a different messaging app (such as Facebook Messenger) already installed on their phones is difficult.
    - mikepurvis 2y ago
      It’s an inertia issue. I already have iMessage, FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and Signal as “primary” messaging apps, plus Instagram and LinkedIn and Teams as secondary— my tolerance would be basically zero for installing something else to connect with a specific person or friend group.
      - prmoustache 2y ago
        That is because you already have an absurd lots of them though. I have whatsapp and conversations and that's it. I only use teams on my professional computer, you will never see me install "work" on my personal smartphone and nobody needs a linkedin app, the website is enough.

Suppafly 2y ago

>(like Goguma)(I use Gamja for this). Is everything related to potatoes lol?

donio 2y ago
Yep, both are by the same author (emersion) and there is definitely a running theme in the project names.

okasaki 2y ago

I think ircd is the wrong layer to attach those features to. You can run something like thelounge and have that on any server.

qudat 2y ago
I disagree. I run all comms for https://pico.sh https://pico.sh through IRC on libera and people really struggle to onboard into IRC. People will pop-in ask a question, then leave because they arrive to a chat that is empty and didnt see any activity in 5mins and bounce. We tried to offer a bouncer instance for users and even that had a barrier to entry because it requires creating 2 accounts: one for libera and one for pico. I think about us switching to ergo every few months because I think the onboarding experience will be much nicer. Logging into a channel for the first time and see the chat log will make people a lot more motivated to stay.
superkuh 2y ago
I agree. The reason IRC is so good is that it is mostly stateless and stores very little information beyond lists of IPs associated with each socket it's stuffing messages into. Once a server starts hosting for people there are a huge set of problems and pressures. IRC is the text chat layer of the internet. It's not by itself, it's part of a larger network of open protocols. If you avail yourself to these it far exceeds the capabilities of even the most featureful walled corporate garden.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

skulk 2y ago

You must have a truly mind-boggling amount of social capital to be able to switch your family/friends off of a mega platform like Discord or WhatsApp. Do you just onboard every single person who wants to talk to any of them also? Or do they see your system as "how to reach donio"

donio 2y ago
Nobody is on a single messaging platform these days they also use other stuff of course. They look at it as a simple way to reach this group of people.
averageRoyalty 2y ago
You'd be surprised how easy it is to move a group chat to a new platform. Often you'll need to run a couple through, but people expect to be on multiple platforms.

avhception 2y ago

I'm in the process of switching over from ngircd to ergo and have contributed a FreeBSD initscript to ergo. My little IRC community has been going on for what must be more than 15 years now. There has been a noticeable slowdown this year. Maybe it will be the end of the line in a few years. Nice to hear that at least there are others out there. I have vivid memories of the first time I connected my Nokia to a laptop and used mobile dialup-internet from the passenger seat of a car to connect to the IRC server while going down the Autobahn. Mobile internet was unheard of at the time, so it was totally exciting!