4 ms·

As in you think the US is actually very collectivist or as in you think the US doesn't care about families at all, only individuals?

nemo44x 2y ago
Americans are extremely generous and charitable by many metrics like this. [1] Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. [1] https://www.axios.com/2022/03/09/america-charitable-giving-stats-ukraine https://www.axios.com/2022/03/09/america-charitable-giving-s...
- taosx 2y ago
  Found this but the ranking is from 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitable_donation_as_percentage_of_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitabl...
  - csomar 2y ago
    That's a horrible metric since charity is used as a tax dodging mechanism in the US, while other countries (non OECD ones) do not have this mechanism.
    - nradov 2y ago
      It's bizarre to describe charitable donations as tax dodging. Every country should make such donations tax deductible.
      - Ekaros 2y ago
        Why? Wouldn't truly generous people even donate clothes from their backs. And sell their homes to help others? They would not need tax deduction for those either.
    - nemo44x 2y ago
      You will spend less money just paying taxes than donating money are writing off your top end. For instance if I have $100 and the government wants 40% of it then I could give them $40. Or I could donate, lets say $15 and now I owe 40% on $85 which is $34. Add the $15 I donated and it's $49. Plus there are limits on how much you can deduct and it's less for assets than for cash. Lastly we have a thing called Alternitive Minimum Tax what is a catchall for anyone that thinks they can pay less by adjusting their income down. You need to calculate both taxes and you pay the higher one.
- yongjik 2y ago
  > Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. barfs
- 1over137 2y ago
  Is their tipping really generosity or just social coercion?
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    Probably both. But it’s literally built into the social fabric. Like the politeness of Americans when it comes to well wishing.
- PNewling 2y ago
  This is an interesting article (list-icle? It is pretty short and aggregate list like). It is from 2022 and mainly focuses on pandemic times, so I'd be curious to see what these trends look like compared to pre/post pandemic. I'm sure I could do more digging and find the answers to this, but still I appreciate this, it is interesting. One thing I think I would push back on though is the remark of 'soft generosity like tipping culture' which isn't mentioned at all in the list. I also would not consider US tipping culture generosity, but more of a social contract/obligation. Someone that does not tip anywhere, except for where they received great service, isn't normally seen as a non-generous person, they're seen as not abiding by the social contract that you have to tip.
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    You don’t have to tip. Nothing will happen to you if you don’t. Some people don’t or tip very little. Many tip well above expectations. Most people don’t mind the practice. But it’s not just tipping at a restaurant. We tip our garbage men, helpers, mailmen, doormen, maids, nanny’s, etc at Christmas. You don’t have to do this. But many of us do because we are raised to be generous if we are fortunate enough to be.
    - Aeolun 2y ago
      Yeah, generous like “I’ll pay you if I want to” instead of generous like “I pay you because you work for me”
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Have you ever been outside the US? Yes, there’s definitely a lot of nice people there (most, even), but there’s also a whole bunch more that make it feel unsafe to just walk the streets.
- GJim 2y ago
  > Americans are extremely generous A country with one of the highest income inequalities in the western world! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_inequality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_in... Being generous is voting for healthcare and social welfare programmes for all, regardless of income. Also, the charitable giving figures you quote are skewed as the US offers tax breaks to donate to "charities" which can be financially beneficial to the giver (charity oversight in the USA is notoriously lax). > Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. Don't take the piss!
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    > Being generous is voting for healthcare and social welfare programmes for all, regardless of income. There are various methods of rationing healthcare. I'm not sure choosing the government to arbitrate rationing is any more "generous". Regardless, American's that can't afford to subsidize their own healthcare (poor, disabled, child, elderly, etc) have many options from the government to assist them such as Medicare, Medicaid, a variety of state programs, etc. I also wouldn't use the NHS as any model of egalitarian or generosity in healthcare as any Brit that can afford it has private insurance on top of it since the NHS leaves a lot to be desired. > Also, the charitable giving figures you quote are skewed as the US offers tax breaks to donate to "charities" which can be financially beneficial to the giver (charity oversight in the USA is notoriously lax). You can deduct from your taxable burden certain charitable donations, but it isn't anywhere near a complete write-off. You'd save considerably more by just paying taxes instead of giving to charity. And this is a great policy as it allows citizens to fund things that would otherwise be well out of scope of government. > Don't take the piss! Waitstaff is what many people think of in this context. But waitstaff in the USA earns considerably more than in the UK or EU due to the generosity of tipping culture. I've never met a waiter that wanted a higher hourly wage to replace their tips as they can and do make a lot of money with tips. But Americans tip far more than waiters. During Christmas we give tips to our garbage collectors, mail carriers, extra to maids and other helpers, tip to teachers and school staff, doormen if you live in an apartment with them. People give greatly to organizations they support and to their churches. I've spent a lot of time in the UK and although a lovely place in many regards, I'm not sure there's a more stingy, tight culture anywhere else on Earth. Everything is precise and transactional and anything regarding helping someone is measured and on the lean side. In large part it's because Brits are very poor compared to Americans but it's also a culture thing too.

nemo44x 2y ago

Americans are extremely generous and charitable by many metrics like this. [1] Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. [1] https://www.axios.com/2022/03/09/america-charitable-giving-stats-ukraine https://www.axios.com/2022/03/09/america-charitable-giving-s...

taosx 2y ago
Found this but the ranking is from 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitable_donation_as_percentage_of_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitabl...
- csomar 2y ago
  That's a horrible metric since charity is used as a tax dodging mechanism in the US, while other countries (non OECD ones) do not have this mechanism.
  - nradov 2y ago
    It's bizarre to describe charitable donations as tax dodging. Every country should make such donations tax deductible.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      Why? Wouldn't truly generous people even donate clothes from their backs. And sell their homes to help others? They would not need tax deduction for those either.
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    You will spend less money just paying taxes than donating money are writing off your top end. For instance if I have $100 and the government wants 40% of it then I could give them $40. Or I could donate, lets say $15 and now I owe 40% on $85 which is $34. Add the $15 I donated and it's $49. Plus there are limits on how much you can deduct and it's less for assets than for cash. Lastly we have a thing called Alternitive Minimum Tax what is a catchall for anyone that thinks they can pay less by adjusting their income down. You need to calculate both taxes and you pay the higher one.
yongjik 2y ago
> Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. barfs
1over137 2y ago
Is their tipping really generosity or just social coercion?
- nemo44x 2y ago
  Probably both. But it’s literally built into the social fabric. Like the politeness of Americans when it comes to well wishing.
PNewling 2y ago
This is an interesting article (list-icle? It is pretty short and aggregate list like). It is from 2022 and mainly focuses on pandemic times, so I'd be curious to see what these trends look like compared to pre/post pandemic. I'm sure I could do more digging and find the answers to this, but still I appreciate this, it is interesting. One thing I think I would push back on though is the remark of 'soft generosity like tipping culture' which isn't mentioned at all in the list. I also would not consider US tipping culture generosity, but more of a social contract/obligation. Someone that does not tip anywhere, except for where they received great service, isn't normally seen as a non-generous person, they're seen as not abiding by the social contract that you have to tip.
- nemo44x 2y ago
  You don’t have to tip. Nothing will happen to you if you don’t. Some people don’t or tip very little. Many tip well above expectations. Most people don’t mind the practice. But it’s not just tipping at a restaurant. We tip our garbage men, helpers, mailmen, doormen, maids, nanny’s, etc at Christmas. You don’t have to do this. But many of us do because we are raised to be generous if we are fortunate enough to be.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    Yeah, generous like “I’ll pay you if I want to” instead of generous like “I pay you because you work for me”
Aeolun 2y ago
Have you ever been outside the US? Yes, there’s definitely a lot of nice people there (most, even), but there’s also a whole bunch more that make it feel unsafe to just walk the streets.
GJim 2y ago
> Americans are extremely generous A country with one of the highest income inequalities in the western world! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_inequality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_in... Being generous is voting for healthcare and social welfare programmes for all, regardless of income. Also, the charitable giving figures you quote are skewed as the US offers tax breaks to donate to "charities" which can be financially beneficial to the giver (charity oversight in the USA is notoriously lax). > Not to mention soft generosity like tipping culture. Don't take the piss!
- nemo44x 2y ago
  > Being generous is voting for healthcare and social welfare programmes for all, regardless of income. There are various methods of rationing healthcare. I'm not sure choosing the government to arbitrate rationing is any more "generous". Regardless, American's that can't afford to subsidize their own healthcare (poor, disabled, child, elderly, etc) have many options from the government to assist them such as Medicare, Medicaid, a variety of state programs, etc. I also wouldn't use the NHS as any model of egalitarian or generosity in healthcare as any Brit that can afford it has private insurance on top of it since the NHS leaves a lot to be desired. > Also, the charitable giving figures you quote are skewed as the US offers tax breaks to donate to "charities" which can be financially beneficial to the giver (charity oversight in the USA is notoriously lax). You can deduct from your taxable burden certain charitable donations, but it isn't anywhere near a complete write-off. You'd save considerably more by just paying taxes instead of giving to charity. And this is a great policy as it allows citizens to fund things that would otherwise be well out of scope of government. > Don't take the piss! Waitstaff is what many people think of in this context. But waitstaff in the USA earns considerably more than in the UK or EU due to the generosity of tipping culture. I've never met a waiter that wanted a higher hourly wage to replace their tips as they can and do make a lot of money with tips. But Americans tip far more than waiters. During Christmas we give tips to our garbage collectors, mail carriers, extra to maids and other helpers, tip to teachers and school staff, doormen if you live in an apartment with them. People give greatly to organizations they support and to their churches. I've spent a lot of time in the UK and although a lovely place in many regards, I'm not sure there's a more stingy, tight culture anywhere else on Earth. Everything is precise and transactional and anything regarding helping someone is measured and on the lean side. In large part it's because Brits are very poor compared to Americans but it's also a culture thing too.