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> On the test’s 500-point scale, American adults scored 258 on average in literacy, 13 points lower than in 2017, and 249 in numeracy, 6 points lower. > One li
by btown 2y ago
> On the test’s 500-point scale, American adults scored 258 on average in literacy, 13 points lower than in 2017, and 249 in numeracy, 6 points lower.
> One literacy question involves a passage describing how bread and crackers become stale, with the last sentence reading “Crackers seem soft when their moisture level reaches about 9 percent.” The sample “low difficulty” question asks, “At what moisture level do crackers become soft?”
> The question may seem straightforward, but it doesn’t use the kind of sentence structure that appears in oral language. People are more likely to say something like, “When do crackers get soft?” Lack of familiarity with complex syntax can be a huge barrier to comprehension.
I wonder if there is research about whether understanding of complex non-conversational syntax requires practice - or is it like "riding a bike" where an adult who had exposure to this kind of syntax during their education is able to retain this skill without practice?
One pair of major shifts in the recent decade in the US have been a decline in trust in print and televised journalistic sources (who would be more likely to use complex syntax in their presentation), and an increased prevalence of targeted video content that has been effectively optimized to be as concise as possible. Is exposure to complex syntax declining as a result?
- rtpg 2y agoOne thing to consider here is that the article pulled this question out, but did not actually state how many people actually got this question right or wrong. It is pretty common for these kinds of tests to include a bunch of questions along various scales, including ones that researchers expect "everyone" to get. This author might have a story they are trying to tell, and if they had information about this question like "oh well everyone got this question right", then they would not be able to illustrate what they mention afterwards: > So can unfamiliar words or concepts. It’s been estimated that comprehension starts to break down when as little as 2 percent of the words in a passage are unfamiliar. The bread-and-crackers text uses a number of words and phrases that aren’t likely to crop up in ordinary conversation, like “exposed to the elements,” “crystallized,” and “retrogradation” This seems fairly straightforward, right? Like some people will not be able to fill in the blank of the meaning of certain words, especially people who are not as good at "test taking" skills (solving the puzzle of understanding all the answers are in the text, process of elimination and other tricks that people who ace this stuff are using without even thinking).
- Aeolun 2y agoI don’t think these things are different between the 2017 and 2023 test, so it all feels silly to argue about. Even if complex sentences are harder for people to understand, that’s no excuse for them to get worse at it.
- rtpg 2y agoYeah, I totally agree with the presumption that the measure is measuring something, and that there is cause for discussion there. I just feel very weird about how the article takes that sample question and sort of priming people with "oh everyone is dumb" takes, when there's an (IMO) likely reality of that question in particular having a 98% hit rate.
- hulitu 2y ago> Even if complex sentences are harder for people to understand, that’s no excuse for them to get worse at it. Language evolves.
- tarboreus 2y agoSo what are people using now instead of "crystalization"? This kind of written language doesn't change very quickly. It's not TikTok.
- slillibri 2y agoI'm sorry, but "At what moisture level do crackers become soft" isn't complex syntax. I would simply blame lack of basic literacy taught in schools, and the 'whole word' method. I would recommend the 'Sold a Story' podcast series[1] for more information. [1] https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
- jph00 2y agoThat wouldn't explain why the biggest decreases are in older adults, who have been out of school for many decades.
- Aeolun 2y agoI would say “at what moisture level do crackers become soft” is very general. What is a “moisture level?” They should be specific. Though I guess half of the point is they want people to tease it out.
- Spivak 2y agoWhen it comes to evaluating literacy you take everything in the text to be fact and assume it makes sense. It shouldn't require any external knowledge or synthesis beyond understanding the language itself. I don't like these tests very much because they live in a somewhat uncanny valley for me for the reason you're getting at. They're almost questions you would encounter in real life but play by different rules than people assume. Like no the question really is that easy, but you have to be told that because otherwise you'll assume you're missing something.
- ahazred8ta 2y agoThere are many people who can understand "What level does X happen at?", but do not understand "At what level does X happen?"
- KiwiJohnno 2y agoI would posit that perhaps this is exactly what this article is about? I mean, we're not talking about complex grammar.
- 1659447091 2y ago> “Crackers seem soft when their moisture level reaches about 9 percent.” > “At what moisture level do crackers become soft?” Are they sure the problem is with "complex syntax"? The statement is that crackers >seem< soft at >about< 9%; yet the question is asking what level do they >become< soft. I had to constantly remind myself on standardize test to remember to use the most general/basic understanding of this type of problem since they did not give the level it actually becomes soft and its standardize testing so needed to remember, "It's not that deep", as the kids say.
- EPWN3D 2y agoHad the exact same thought. It's simply not clear that the statement and the question relate to the same thing. And this is the kind of thing that matters to other portions of the test, such as what a set of rules allows or prohibits.
- Asraelite 2y agoI never eat crackers and I didn't even know that softness is what defines their staleness until now.
- anotherhue 2y agoYou may enjoy reading about why Jaffa cakes are not biscuits. A landmark UK case.
- hulitu 2y ago> “Crackers seem soft when their moisture level reaches about 9 percent.” The sample “low difficulty” question asks, “At what moisture level do crackers become soft?” Are the crackers soft when they seem soft ? To put it another way: is a woman beautiful when she seems beautiful ? (English is not my mother tongue)