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Silicon Valley Tea Party a.k.a. the great 1998 Linux revolt take II (1999)
- billy99k 2y agoI use Linux daily (command line only) alongside Windows. It's amazing to think that after all these years, Linux on the desktop (with GUI) still isn't even close to windows in terms of functionality. I've tried it over they years and finally gave up. It would work for awhile, until some random change would break something I used every day and I wasn't interested in spending many hours trying to research a fix and manually hack some .c file to make it work. MacOS essentially became a form of Unix with a fantastic GUI. It's what Linux could have been. I like to use Linux with the windows WSL and I get the best of both worlds: a nice GUI and the ability to run all of my favorite Linux apps.
- sumanthvepa 2y agoI have 3 machines at my desk (with 3 monitors) one running Ubuntu, (and a bunch VMs) one with Windows 11, and a Mac. They use the same keyboard and mouse, and I can move my mouse cursor and keyboard focus across the three OSes easily (I use synergy to do this). My experience with the desktops across all the OSes largely similar. They do things differently, but once you get used to the OS, it becomes second nature. Linux is my preferred environment for anything to do with development. I use my Windows machine for office productivity (Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint browsing) and VisualStudio. I use my Mac for the Adobe creative suite and Figma and iOS/visionOS development. The difference in OSes isn't the desktop itself. It's the software that runs on it. I don't really want use GIMP on Linux for example, or do web dev on Windows.
- saagarjha 2y agoI would argue that you’re doing a bad job using those OSes through software like Synergy, which doesn’t really understand things like multitouch or smooth scrolling.
- z33k 2y agoIt's fine in my experience. I use Synergy 1 and I turn off smooth scrolling on my laptops and desktops. I find it more distracting that some apps support smooth scrolling and some don't, so I just turn it off altogether. Together with AutoHotkey on Windows and (Built-in) Applescript and Rectangle on MacOS, one is able to have similar keybinds on both operating systems.
- saagarjha 2y agoEvery app on macOS supports smooth scrolling. That’s why people use it. You’re using the lowest common denominator and going “wow everything is the same I can’t tell the difference”.
- z33k 2y agoOnly with hardware acceleration turned off. Which in my experience causes a stuttery and laggy experience which can hardly be described as "smooth". If you really want to use MacOS's smooth scrolling, use MOS (https://mos.caldis.me https://mos.caldis.me) and get a beefy Mac because the base models will stutter like I mentioned.
- saagarjha 2y agoI am very confused what you are talking about. You definitely do not need hardware acceleration to be disabled to get smooth scrolling. Something seems very broken with your setup?
- michaelsshaw 2y ago>, or do web dev on Windows. Personally, I find any development on Windows to be a pain!
- impossiblefork 2y agoWindows is a complete subscription hell, with annoying pop-ups unless you regularly pay Microsoft etc. fairly large amounts, and then there's the commercials and MSN. My mother switched to Linux because she felt that she with Windows didn't have a real computer, but that Microsoft had a computer she borrowed. It was never great-- there was always bloat, but recently it's crossed a line of unusability where the OS itself is more distracting than useful.
- dboreham 2y agoPay Microsoft for what?
- impossiblefork 2y agoWord, for example, but I think there are also other subscriptions in it. Meanwhile, with Libreoffice, it just works.
- _7tgr 2y agoYes, it constantly bugs you about buying OneDrive.
- MikeTheGreat 2y agoI was gonna (silently) disagree with you, but in the last couple of weeks I updated Windows and now it's periodically asking if it can know my location. I'm not clear if Windows is asking, or it's asking on behalf of a specific app, or so it can give this info to any app that wants it. And I don't care - the answer is no, no matter how many times it asks. I always admired Linux, and was able to get around in Linux, but never seriously considered using it until that MS AI thing that works by taking a screenshot every couple of seconds. And now this pester-ware asking for my location.
- _7tgr 2y agoTo be honest I've never had issues like you're describing and I've been using Linux nearly exclusively as a desktop OS since the 2010s. The main deficiency is that it doesn't have eg a good Photoshop alternative, but what's there works well-- and these days the browser has supplanted most native proprietary software, anyway. Things have only broken for me when I've hacked/customized them to the point that it's a miracle they work at all. OTOH, Windows has never given me anything but trouble... stuff that's easy on Linux semi-frequently required regedit hacks. I remember having to mess with some DCOM thing and ended up hosing my Windows install. Not to mention that it's awfully slow without installing a bunch of debloating tools (and even then...).
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoI'm interested to know what breaks in the Linux desktop experience. I've been using Linux exclusively as a desktop environment at home for 5 years or more and my primary pain point is kernel updates breaking DisplayLink, via a docking stattion I use for multiple monitors. I now have a specific command line that rolls back the kernel to the previous version, and then I wait for updated DisplayLink drivers. It's a pain, but it's still (much!) better than the circles of hell that Windows has been putting users through since Windows 7. Strangely, the Windows laptop provided by my work just stopped being able to pipe audio through the speakers plugged into the docking station. Which feels like Windows "doing a Linux". The tables are turning?
- bigstrat2003 2y agoI don't think that I've ever had an issue like that on Windows. Their business practices with the ads and whatnot are awful, but the drivers and hardware work very, very well. Honestly even as a pretty knowledgeable person I don't consider your situation to be acceptable, much less someone who isn't knowledgeable. "You have to roll back the kernel" is just not reasonable to expect of people.
- redmajor12 2y agoHave you tried the i3 tiling window manager? If you're comfortable on the command line, you may enjoy the keyboard-forward focus of i3.
- davidw 2y agoFun times; I knew some of those people. Tech felt more nerdy and optimistic. It had its share of problems, but I miss some of the idealism.
- advael 2y agoOptimistic times always end when people who won power in them fight to hold on to increasingly more of it, and tend to only come back once they fail, stop, or fall.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoConsider that the times were optimistic for those who were interested, motivated, capable, and in a position (even geographic) to learn about computers. But there were probably many people for whom the same time was not as optimistic, perhaps due to being automated or outsourced. Probably true right now too, some are in optimistic times, and others not. Perhaps the proportions of the two groups varies.
- advael 2y agoGenerally when people refer to the "times" they are discussing the vibes over some aggregate. Zoom in enough on anything and you start to see different individuals with unique circumstances, but this doesn't make futile the entire endeavor of observing larger patterns
- idiotsecant 2y agoI feel like maybe there are some parallels with the 60s counterculture movements. The 'high water mark' speech from fear and loathing comes to mind.
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- schoen 2y agoMy friend Nick, with whom I worked on Linux stuff in this era, actually quoted that speech in reference to the free software scene sometime around the year 2000! I think you're the first person since then I've seen mention it in this context.
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- fancyfredbot 2y agoThe intensity of feeling within the Linux community towards Windows and Microsoft back then was intense. I remember turning up to my university CS course and witnessing the formation of a Linux clique - if you ran windows you weren't really welcome! Dual-booting might get you reluctantly accepted though. I wonder if the same thing still goes on. It probably was quite an effective filter for the nerdiest and most obsessive people back in 1999, and it probably still is, but somehow that kind of mindset seems a bit outdated today. If it does still exist I'd be interested to know what kind of status macOS has! Literally nobody on the CS course had a Mac, despite the very cool and colourful iMacs being very popular.
- mmsimanga 2y agoI had a professor firmly in the Linux camp. Whenever he had to touch a computer running windows he wore gloves and goggles just like people working in biohazard environment would dress. I found it amusing rather than antagonistic. It was also a great conversation opener to discuss pros and cons of Linux.
- CursedSilicon 2y agoIt's largely been replaced by tedious factional infighting. Particularly from younger Linux users. Waaay too many folks (particularly in places like Mastodon) make "using Linux" the majority of their personality. They live and breathe Linux. Fighting to ensure that "Winblows" users understand that Arch Linux is *THE ONLY WAY!* God forbid if you use a distro they don't then you're subjected to endless pithy criticism from on high about "well you wouldn't have this problem if you just used my distro!"
- mgaunard 2y agoI remember when I was in school (2006), if you wanted to be cool you had to use xmonad, mutt and irssi. And of course an IBM Thinkpad T42.
- akho 2y agoxmonad started in 2007.
- aa-jv 2y agoIf only SGI had made that darn laptop, we'd be rocking SGI Linux these days, and the fruity company would be a minor consideration to most nerds. Alas, 'twas not to be. SGI, you glorious bastard, why did you have to make that deal with the devil .. IMHO, the tech industry completely changed when nerds could by tiBooks, have an amazing Unix experience in a portable form, and still rip and play DVD's alongside the shell ..
- rbanffy 2y agoWhat SGI had in its favor was the great hardware. This is, more or less, the selling point of "the fruity company" today, at least for those who don't know they can open a terminal. For those who do, it's a competent Unix OS and certainly does the job. I never found IRIX great for servers either.
- aa-jv 2y agoAs a huge fan of SGI (and MIPS, prior to their rise) I like to project SGI's wonderful hardware into the realm of laptops. It was a huge surprise that the Fruit Company were the ones to come out with really robust, affordable (at the time) Unix-based laptops .. all the issues with Irix would have become relatively irrelevant had SGI built the laptop and had their Linux team work on the case. Ah well, an alternative timeline I will visit when the technology to do so becomes more widely available. ;)
- rbanffy 2y agoWell… in the end SGI licensed their secret graphics sauce to Nvidia (IIRC) and you can get Linux running on pretty much any x86 laptop. You can even run MaXX Desktop. Or FreeBSD for extra Unixness. I imagine what they’d look like today. Now sure how to translate their 90’s graphics language to the 2020’s though. Hard edges, rich textures, and colorful machines.
- aa-jv 2y agoIf there were ever a productive use of AI, reviving the SGI design aesthetic for the /r/cyberdeck crowd is it .. ;)
- jmclnx 2y agoBy then I had moved on to FreeBSD, I think starting at 3.?. The main reason for that move was internet access. FreeBSD CD set came with additional CDs of their ports collection. No more downloading via my flaky and very slow phone connection (via kermit). I went back to Linux around 4.8 because FreeBSD started having issues with my hardware. By then I had "real" internet thanks to the company I worked for. I remember seeing items about this, but the BSD people tended not to care about these things. But a nice look back
- arp242 2y ago> FreeBSD CD set came with additional CDs of their ports collection. No more downloading via my flaky and very slow phone connection (via kermit). You just had to endlessly swap between the different CDs because the dependency resolution wasn't very smart about that. Fun stuff :-)
- linguae 2y agoThis is actually how I was introduced to FreeBSD as well. I was a high school student in 2004 who had a hand-me-down PC that one of my high school teachers gave me. It had a 475MHz AMD K6-2 processor, 64MB RAM, and a 8GB hard drive that was running Windows 98. I learned about Linux in the spring of 2004, and I had Zipslack, which was a version of Slackware Linux that ran on top of DOS. I wanted to try Gentoo, but I had dial-up at home. At least Zipslack was small enough to make the download via dial-up bearable. During the summer of 2004 I took an introductory computer science course at Sacramento City College. The professor was a big fan of FreeBSD. He convinced me to try it instead of Gentoo, and he gave me some CDs that he burned containing FreeBSD and plenty of FOSS software. I ended up installing FreeBSD on my PC, and I fell in love with it. It was my daily-driver OS until the summer of 2006, when I was able to use some of my internship earnings to purchase a MacBook, my first brand-new computer and my first modern Mac. I still use FreeBSD whenever I need a Unix and when I don’t need to use Linux-specific software.